Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 15, 2020 22:22:56 GMT
So here's a tiny little effort of mine in communicating this little idea about what I think should be done for Mass Effect 5 (if Bioware ever decides to do it). Just so everyone knows, I haven't played Mass Effect: Andromeda yet. No special reason, I just don't have a powerful enough PC yet (reasons), feel free however to discuss and spoil if you may. ANYWAYS... whenever I think about what I would like for the Mass Effect franchise, I think about the ways in which people that don't know the game can actually get to experience it and discover the incredible moments we all shared as we've played each title. From rescuing Liara on Therum, to making the harrowing decision of Virmire, listening to Vigil's revelations in Ilos, seeing the destruction of the Normandy, repelling the collectors at Horizon, surviving the Suicide Mission, curing the krogan genophage, finding peace among the geth and quarians, saving the galaxy and every civilization living in it... ENDLESS amounts of moments that have made these games special to me. So I'm always a little hesitant when these moments (of which we should have as many we could have) are re-attempted by mere replication. As I said, I haven't played Andromeda but I did get a feel from the trailers and promotional material that it seemed like a bit of an attempt at trying to "relive the old glory" of Shepard and the Normandy. My final veredict might come later this year though, in regards to MEA. So if it was up to me, if it was all in my hands (a man can dream), what would I propose for the next Mass Effect ? Criminals !It worked here: And here: And specially here: Now some of you may say "I hated Firefly, The Mandalorian and Farscape". Okay son I get you, but here's a few reasons why it could work: 1. It offers a completely new perspective on galactic exploration. rather than a military crew, you have a group of people with no connection or mere interest in participating in scientific or academic endeavors. This would require the plot to focus on linking the characters to the series' love of space and the science behind it, leading me to the second point. 2. It has the potential to place the focus on space and its importance. Rather than focusing on an overall threat or menace to the galaxy, the story could center around a crew of criminals discovering why its important and valuable to expand on our knowledge of space and the universe in general, this leads me to the third point. 3. It sets up a perfect stage for new players to get into the franchise. Since this theoretical crew of criminals is interested in anything but science and space exploration, then any learning they achieve becomes one for the players as well. We all play a new game and a experience a great story that is faithful to Mass Effect for the first time. 4. It expands customization beyond a scientific / military setting. Smugglers, mercenaries, thieves, raiders... in space ! This type of setting could allow for interesting freedoms and innovations that were beyond the availability of Shepard or Ryder. Want a full-body tattoo like the one Jack got ? Want to play an assassin or brawler as your character ? Here's your chance. I can already think of two premises ! Premise A: In the middle of a scavenger run, the crew of the pirate frigate "Ravager" unwittingly comes across a living Thorian pod being sought after by several factions of the Andromeda Galaxy, all interested in its power and capabilities. With the assistance of a specialist from the Andromeda Initiative, the pirate crew of the "Ravager" embarks on an impossible journey to bring the Thorian pod to safety.
Premise B: While exploring uncharted planets, the crew of the pirate frigate "Ravager" come across "Hades", a top secret project with the aim of replacing the Andromeda Initiative and bring Cerberus' goals and ideals to lead galactic civilization in the exploration of the Andromeda Galaxy. The pirate crew of the "Ravager" embarks on a mission to survive the relentless chase from "Hades" and bring to light their dark goals.All in all, I think about this type of setting because I think it's very easy to go in Star Trek mode and offer a general "safe" structure for a new story and go with things that traditionally work; in the mindset of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... I dislike this mentality, I think it should be discarded and we should try for new, awesome, bold things. Lemme know what you good folk think !
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Post by skekSil on May 16, 2020 16:38:06 GMT
So you want to take a well extablished franchise and explore its universe from the perspective of criminals? Thats a great idea! There is no way it can fail!
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Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 16, 2020 17:13:42 GMT
So you want to take a well extablished franchise and explore its universe from the perspective of criminals? Thats a great idea! There is no way it can fail! The Mandalorian counters your argument good sir
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 16, 2020 17:53:39 GMT
As much as I love Farscape, Firefly, The Guardians of the Galaxy, Dark Matter, and Solo: A Star Wars Story I also tend to find them kind of boring after a while. Farscape got around this by having the most original sci-fi universes ever made and by being brave enough to go very dark in one episode then in the next episode have a Chuck Jones Loony Toons homage complete with cartoon animation, and the Henson company pushing themselves to the limits.
But the sad truth is this: criminal sci-fi shows don't last Farscape got canceled after 4 seasons and got a mini-series which is basically a super-condensed version of season 5 might have been, Firefly and it's feature film conclusion Serenity was canceled after 10 episodes and the movie wasn't a big hit either. Dark Matter lasted 3 seasons and Solo was a hit just not the big hit that Disney wanted. The Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 1 was a big hit mostly because it was a Marvel movie.
Criminal space based sci-fi shows like Firefly/Serenity, Farscape, and Dark Matter are cult classics. They have a strong and dedicated but relative small fanbases to support them and while that might get them one live action TV mini-series and/or a what is basically a glorified mid budget B movie, the rest of the major media has been comics and a few novels.
The Guardians of the Galaxy, Solo, and The Mandalorian are parts of larger and/or older franchises and were going to be hits regardless of if people like them or not.
So, no MEA2 doesn't need to be GTA in space, which would suck, and besides ME2 already did the space criminals with Shepard.
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Post by skekSil on May 16, 2020 18:11:04 GMT
The Mandalorian counters your argument good sir And Firefly counters yours ) Jokes aside, I still dont understand how ME but with Criminals! would be different from and better than 'vanilla ME'-like game. And all of your examples are movies/TV-series, not games which have quite different storytelling requirements/limitations.
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Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 16, 2020 18:13:04 GMT
As much as I love Farscape, Firefly, The Guardians of the Galaxy, Dark Matter, and Solo: A Star Wars Story I also tend to find them kind of boring after a while. Farscape got around this by having the most original sci-fi universes ever made and by being brave enough to go very dark in one episode then in the next episode have a Chuck Jones Loony Toons homage complete with cartoon animation, and the Henson company pushing themselves to the limits. But the sad truth is this: criminal sci-fi shows don't last Farscape got canceled after 4 seasons and got a mini-series which is basically a super-condensed version of season 5 might have been, Firefly and it's feature film conclusion Serenity was canceled after 10 episodes and the movie wasn't a big hit either. Dark Matter lasted 3 seasons and Solo was a hit just not the big hit that Disney wanted. The Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 1 was a big hit mostly because it was a Marvel movie. Criminal space based sci-fi shows like Firefly/Serenity, Farscape, and Dark Matter are cult classics. They have a strong and dedicated but relative small fanbases to support them and while that might get them one live action TV mini-series and/or a what is basically a glorified mid budget B movie, the rest of the major media has been comics and a few novels. The Guardians of the Galaxy, Solo, and The Mandalorian are parts of larger and/or older franchises and were going to be hits regardless of if people like them or not. So, no MEA2 doesn't need to be GTA in space, which would suck, and besides ME2 already did the space criminals with Shepard. I see your point but... 3 to 4 seasons for a TV show, a mini-series and movies... is a fucking lot . Clearly what you're describing is sheer success. The concept does work and has produced content that is almost considered essential these days. If you get a whiff of a taste for Star Trek and Sci-Fi TV then it's only a matter of time before you get a recommendation for one of the shows I mentioned. I perfectly understand the point about preference, that is fine but... to argue that it doesn't work or that it's not succesful is just incorrect. I also don't understand the comparison with GTA (a fantastic game by the way). My proposal was directed more towards the perspective of the story: it can still be the same old Mass Effect but with characters that have different origins, values and views about the universe they inhabit. ME2 doesn't do space criminals because, despite the fact that you do work with criminals, Shepard isn't one and Cerberus isn't a criminal organization but a paramilitary one. A setting like this (which is fine if no one likes) allows us to re-interpret Andromeda and the endeavors of scientists and explorers, only this time, from the lens of outcasts and outlaws... that doesn't mean I want to "rob spaceships and do heists in space"
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 16, 2020 18:18:47 GMT
And Firefly counters yours ) Jokes aside, I still dont understand how ME but with Criminals! would be different from and better than 'vanilla ME'-like game. And all of your examples are movies/TV-series, not games which have quite different storytelling requirements/limitations. How so ? Firefly receives praise and is fully recommended to this day. As I've said before, it's fine if you don't like it but it's ludicrous to suggest it's not succesful. I'm not saying "it would be better" but I think a fresh and varied perspective might be necessary to tell new stories. I wouldn't like it if every Mass Effect game in the Andromeda galaxy was about the characters that worked for the Andromeda Initiative. What about the stories of the colonists ? Of the smugglers and mercenaries ? Of the cults and factions that occupy the universe ? We shouldn't limit ourselves. Finally, we have Mass Effect because Casey Hudson and crew enjoyed Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica, none of which were games
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Post by skekSil on May 16, 2020 18:36:20 GMT
How so ? Firefly receives praise and is fully recommended to this day. As I've said before, it's fine if you don't like it but it's ludicrous to suggest it's not succesful. It was canceled in the middle of first season I'd say its a fail. I dont hate Firefly I kinda like it, but I do think its goodness is overhyped by its fans. I'm not saying "it would be better" but I think a fresh and varied perspective might be necessary to tell new stories. Thats what Im asking, why do we need this perspective to tell these new stories? Finally, we have Mass Effect because Casey Hudson and crew enjoyed Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica, none of which were games My point is, just because this concept works for movies and TV it is not a given that it will the same way in games. What do you think makes Star Trek different from Farscape and how these differences can be implemented into gameplay?
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Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 16, 2020 18:57:47 GMT
It was canceled in the middle of first season I'd say its a fail. I dont hate Firefly I kinda like it, but I do think its goodness is overhyped by its fans. Thats what Im asking, why do we need this perspective to tell these new stories? My point is, just because this concept works for movies and TV it is not a given that it will the same way in games. What do you think makes Star Trek different from Farscape and how these differences can be implemented into gameplay? Commercial success isn't the only type of success. It's fine to dislike Firefly but no one can reasonably deny that it's had a huge influence in modern sci-fi content. As for the need, I don't know if we're yet at that point but I think we just can't do the same deal with each iteration, maybe it was fine for the trilogy because it was a single story but not this time where each game seems to be it's own self-contained story (seemingly so at least). Imagine if every Dragon Age game was about the Grey Wardens and the Darkspawn. If it had been that way we wouldn't have known Hawke, we wouldn't have even dreamed that something as an "Inquisition" could be possible. And we're not thinking about the Grey Wardens in DA4 because we know just how vast the setting is. Many stories can be told in Thedas; same goes for Andromeda. I don't understand your last point, all I would say is that in terms of gameplay, a "Mass Effect: Ravager" could work just the same as any game before, with the difference that the story being told is going to come from someone with a very different starting point than someone like Shepard or Ryder, and that offers nothing but opportunity in my opinion.
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Post by FireAndBlood on May 16, 2020 20:56:03 GMT
We kind of got that with ME2.
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 16, 2020 22:27:41 GMT
We kind of got that with ME2. I think we got to see what the underbelly of the Milky Way Galaxy was while in Shepard's shoes. To live it ? To experience it ? We haven't so far !
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 16, 2020 22:59:52 GMT
ME2 doesn't do space criminals because, despite the fact that you do work with criminals, Shepard isn't one and Cerberus isn't a criminal organization but a paramilitary one. Shepard commits a number of crimes in that game so yes they are. And Cerberus isn’t just a paramilitary organization but is classified as a terrorist organization so they’re criminals.
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Post by ClarkKent on May 16, 2020 23:05:13 GMT
I can see it going the other way, honestly. Ryder was kinda non-military and the response wasn't great. I can see them leaning in on a proper meat and potatoes buzzcut marine like Shepard in the next game.
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 16, 2020 23:31:27 GMT
Shepard commits a number of crimes in that game so yes they are. And Cerberus isn’t just a paramilitary organization but is classified as a terrorist organization so they’re criminals. Shepard is a military operative. If he or she commits crimes, he does so to serve a higher purpose. That is obviously different than being a smuggler, a thief or a mercenary. As for Cerberus, you obviously wouldn't say the Cosa Nostra is the same as Mussolini's Fascist Party.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 16, 2020 23:44:57 GMT
Shepard commits a number of crimes in that game so yes they are. And Cerberus isn’t just a paramilitary organization but is classified as a terrorist organization so they’re criminals. Shepard is a military operative. If he or she commits crimes, he does so to serve a higher purpose. That is obviously different than being a smuggler, a thief or a mercenary. As for Cerberus, you obviously wouldn't say the Cosa Nostra is the same as Mussolini's Fascist Party. As a soldier, they should know better. Also some soldiers are tried for their crimes and are called war criminals. Both kill innocent people, so yes I would. Remember the Cerberus we see in ME2 isn’t the real Cerberus but just people TIM gathered to make the organization look nicer than it was. ME1 and ME2 showed the real Cerberus as well and they are definitely criminal.
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Post by Gileadan on May 16, 2020 23:53:58 GMT
I think playing as a criminal character - without any powerful organization, be it the Alliance or Cerberus as backup - might make for a refreshing change from BioWare's standard "chosen one and gang of quirky misfits snark their way to inevitable victory" fare. Maybe the actual antagonist could be some Alliance holier-than-thou who takes credit for your successes while hunting you down for whatever crime you're running from as you and your friends try to prevent some truly evil things from happening.
Your gang consists of a drug addicted sniper, a violent pyromaniac engineer and a con man on the run, and yet you all share some kind of camaraderie...
Could be fun. Don't think BioWare would ever make it though.
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Post by themikefest on May 17, 2020 0:18:11 GMT
ME2 doesn't do space criminals because, despite the fact that you do work with criminals, Shepard isn't one and Cerberus isn't a criminal organization but a paramilitary one. Shepard commits a number of crimes in that game so yes they are. And Cerberus isn’t just a paramilitary organization but is classified as a terrorist organization so they’re criminals. Can you list the crimes he/she commits?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 17, 2020 0:26:29 GMT
Shepard commits a number of crimes in that game so yes they are. And Cerberus isn’t just a paramilitary organization but is classified as a terrorist organization so they’re criminals. Can you list the crimes he/she commits? Works with a terrorist organization War crimes via mass murder by killing 300,000 batarians if you play Arrival Theft Possibly murder "vandalism" as the Hanar would put it etc
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Post by themikefest on May 17, 2020 0:35:54 GMT
As a soldier, they should know better. Also some soldiers are tried for their crimes and are called war criminals. Shepard being dead for 2 years, then comes back to life, thanks to Cerberus, only to learn the clowns calling themselves Alliance failed to make any effort to confirm Shepard is dead, then fail for not making any attempt to find a way to stop the reapers, I would understand Shepard getting hot under the collar. My Shepard has no problem working with Cerberus and to recruit whoever to stop the abductions. Say what you will about whatever crime you say Shepard committed, but if not, how many more lives would have been lost to the collectors? Don't forget to add the species called asari for the crap they did in ME3. How many lives could have been saved if they revealed that artifact earlier? How many lives did Cerberus take vs the number of lives that were lost because the asari didn't speak up?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 17, 2020 0:42:13 GMT
As a soldier, they should know better. Also some soldiers are tried for their crimes and are called war criminals. Shepard being dead for 2 years, then comes back to life, thanks to Cerberus, only to learn the clowns calling themselves Alliance failed to make any effort to confirm Shepard is dead, then fail for not making any attempt to find a way to stop the reapers, I would understand Shepard getting hot under the collar. My Shepard has no problem working with Cerberus and to recruit whoever to stop the abductions. Say what you will about whatever crime you say Shepard committed, but if not, how many more lives would have been lost to the collectors? Don't forget to add the species called asari for the crap they did in ME3. How many lives could have been saved if they revealed that artifact earlier? How many lives did Cerberus take vs the number of lives that were lost because the asari didn't speak up? None of that has anything to do with what that conversation was. Also ends don't justify the means. I don't hold the entire species accountable since almost all were innocent of that crime since almost all were just as much in the dark as the rest of the galaxy. Same reason I don't condemn all of humanity for the actions of Cerberus, or all the turians for the actions of Saren, etc.
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Post by alanc9 on May 17, 2020 1:09:20 GMT
Shepard being dead for 2 years, then comes back to life, thanks to Cerberus, only to learn the clowns calling themselves Alliance failed to make any effort to confirm Shepard is dead, then fail for not making any attempt to find a way to stop the reapers, I would understand Shepard getting hot under the collar. My Shepard has no problem working with Cerberus and to recruit whoever to stop the abductions. Say what you will about whatever crime you say Shepard committed, but if not, how many more lives would have been lost to the collectors? Don't forget to add the species called asari for the crap they did in ME3. How many lives could have been saved if they revealed that artifact earlier? How many lives did Cerberus take vs the number of lives that were lost because the asari didn't speak up? None of that has anything to do with what that conversation was. Also ends don't justify the means. Sure they do. Or rather, there's no difference between the two. Really, there are only actions and consequences. Which consequence is an end and which is a means isn't of any importance.
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Post by themikefest on May 17, 2020 2:26:04 GMT
Works with a terrorist organization I don't see working with Cerberus as a crime. If Shepard didn't, what would he/she have done? Shepard didn't have a ship to travel around. The Alliance wasn't willing to help after Shepard told Anderson about the collectors, and his comment about it's up to Shepard to find a way to stop the reapers. He never cared. The council wasn't going to help. Shouldn't theft fall under as possible as well? It only happens if Shepard helps Goto. Or are you referring to some other theft?
Vandalism? Can you be more specific? Overall, depending on the playthrough, the only thing Shepard would be guilty of is working with Cerberus to stop the abductions. If I was a judge, I would shake his/her hand for stopping the collectors, then tell him/her to have a good day.
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on May 17, 2020 2:52:11 GMT
None of that has anything to do with what that conversation was. Also ends don't justify the means. Sure they do. Or rather, there's no difference between the two. Really, there are only actions and consequences. Which consequence is an end and which is a means isn't of any importance. Clever.
Though you are twisting words here. For a consequence can never be a means. Consequences ARE results or endpoints.
Means are the paths taken to reach a said end. Actions are interactions with the world due to the thought processes of the mind of the one who is about to implement an action that will lead to the means that will lead to the end/consequence.
Now as to whether the consequence at the end justifies or doesn't the action taken to take road or means to reach said consequence is more debatable. For in this issue it must correlate to a persons personal values as to what is acceptable and not.
If murder is acceptable then to them such action is justified and if murder is unacceptable then such action is unacceptable. Is this truly so hard to understand?
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 17, 2020 13:29:54 GMT
As much as I love Farscape, Firefly, The Guardians of the Galaxy, Dark Matter, and Solo: A Star Wars Story I also tend to find them kind of boring after a while. Farscape got around this by having the most original sci-fi universes ever made and by being brave enough to go very dark in one episode then in the next episode have a Chuck Jones Loony Toons homage complete with cartoon animation, and the Henson company pushing themselves to the limits. But the sad truth is this: criminal sci-fi shows don't last Farscape got canceled after 4 seasons and got a mini-series which is basically a super-condensed version of season 5 might have been, Firefly and it's feature film conclusion Serenity was canceled after 10 episodes and the movie wasn't a big hit either. Dark Matter lasted 3 seasons and Solo was a hit just not the big hit that Disney wanted. The Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 1 was a big hit mostly because it was a Marvel movie. Criminal space based sci-fi shows like Firefly/Serenity, Farscape, and Dark Matter are cult classics. They have a strong and dedicated but relative small fanbases to support them and while that might get them one live action TV mini-series and/or a what is basically a glorified mid budget B movie, the rest of the major media has been comics and a few novels. The Guardians of the Galaxy, Solo, and The Mandalorian are parts of larger and/or older franchises and were going to be hits regardless of if people like them or not. So, no MEA2 doesn't need to be GTA in space, which would suck, and besides ME2 already did the space criminals with Shepard. I see your point but... 3 to 4 seasons for a TV show, a mini-series and movies... is a fucking lot . Clearly what you're describing is sheer success. The concept does work and has produced content that is almost considered essential these days. If you get a whiff of a taste for Star Trek and Sci-Fi TV then it's only a matter of time before you get a recommendation for one of the shows I mentioned. I perfectly understand the point about preference, that is fine but... to argue that it doesn't work or that it's not succesful is just incorrect. I also don't understand the comparison with GTA (a fantastic game by the way). My proposal was directed more towards the perspective of the story: it can still be the same old Mass Effect but with characters that have different origins, values and views about the universe they inhabit. ME2 doesn't do space criminals because, despite the fact that you do work with criminals, Shepard isn't one and Cerberus isn't a criminal organization but a paramilitary one. A setting like this (which is fine if no one likes) allows us to re-interpret Andromeda and the endeavors of scientists and explorers, only this time, from the lens of outcasts and outlaws... that doesn't mean I want to "rob spaceships and do heists in space"
No, Cerberus IS a criminal and terrorist organization, they kill people for money, influence, technology, betrayal, and power in all 4 games, DLC, the anime, novels, and comics all of which is canon. So pardon me if I don't want play a space fascist, a space Nazi, or a space gangster. I despise most gangster movies (other than both versions of Scarface and maybe The Godfather Trilogy) and I hate to deal with stupid, greedy, selfish, and unlikable "heroes" Mal Reynolds from Serenity. I think the idea MIGHT work in novels and comics I don't think I could play a criminal in a video game unless it's so over-the-top to be a parody/satire like Saints Row: The Third and Saints Row IV was.
If you want me to play as a space outlaw (that isn't parody/satire game) then I would rather play as a Robin Hood type outlaw hero in space. The idea is simple A crew of a small ship who is wrong convicted of a crime that they didn't commit by a powerful corporation and/or a powerful corrupt government official who is stealing resources from and heavily taxing the poor to build a powerful weapon, with the media blaming them for the crime, they have have to fight BOTH the corruption and well meaning law enforcement agents from outside the law and trying to clear their names with no allies in the government and the media. So they steal from the corporation and the politician and give some of the loot to the poor to get the poor people to support them (for weapons and armor, ship upgrade, and good PR). Now that is a concept I could get behind.
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Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 17, 2020 14:43:16 GMT
I think playing as a criminal character - without any powerful organization, be it the Alliance or Cerberus as backup - might make for a refreshing change from BioWare's standard "chosen one and gang of quirky misfits snark their way to inevitable victory" fare. Maybe the actual antagonist could be some Alliance holier-than-thou who takes credit for your successes while hunting you down for whatever crime you're running from as you and your friends try to prevent some truly evil things from happening. Your gang consists of a drug addicted sniper, a violent pyromaniac engineer and a con man on the run, and yet you all share some kind of camaraderie... Could be fun. Don't think BioWare would ever make it though. Sounds wonderful already ! I think the concept lends itself to developing some truly great characters. But as you say, it's unlikely that it would happen. Thinking about it, it's true that Bioware likes a more "heroic" framing for their characters; I would say the same could be done with a criminal gang but Bioware storylines are also about the institutions that their main characters are a part of: grey wardens, the systems alliance, cerberus, the inquisition. I would say Hawke is a very notable exception to the rule.
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