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Post by HabitsH on May 28, 2020 11:42:13 GMT
Here's what we know Cerberus has done in the ME world -
Prior To Mass Effect 1:
1. 2165 - Attempted to steal antimatter from cruiser SSV Geneva
2. 2170 - Engineer the Eldfell Ashland energy accident to Yando expose colonists to dust forms of element zero followed by two other similar accidents in two other colonies over the preceding four months.
3. 2171 - Assassination of Pope Clement XVI using rosary beads coated wit toxic materials so that he can be replaced by Pope Leo XIV whose beliefs aligned with Cerberus to militarize humanity.
4. 2173 - Assassination of Claude Menneau, a potential leadership candidate of the pro Human Terra Firma party so that Charles Saracino, who is more aligned with Cerberus to gain the position.
5. 2176 - Funded Michael Mosier Lang, who would assassinate United North American president Enrique Aguilar and Chinese People's Federation premier Ying Xiong.
6. 2182 - Sabotaged the starship MSV Anixara which resulted in the death of Turian Hierarchy war hero Raherix Ursivus.
7. Sometime prior to ME1 - Encouraged Alliance to cooperate with Turian Hierarchy to build the Normandy SR1.
8. Sometime prior to ME1 - Unnamed biotics project at Pragia's Teltin facility which aimed to increase biotic potential in humans through experimentation on child biotics kidnapped from Cerberus or bought from batarian slavers.
9. Sometime prior to ME1 - Lured Thresher Maws to the Akuze colony which massacred the team of soldiers there, which was then followed by capture of and brutal experimentation on Corporal Toombs.
Mass Effect 1 (which takes place on 2183):
1. Conducted experiments with the intention to create supersoldiers, including experiments on Rachni and Thorian Creepers.
2. Involved with a settlement on Chasca whose colonial pioneer team was converted into Husks.
3. Responsible for luring a group of marines under Rear Admiral Kohaku to a Thresher Maw nest much like Akuze.
4. Capture and assassination of Rear Admiral Kohaku.
5. After ME1's End & Between ME2's Start - Sent Miranda Lawson to assist Jacob Taylor to investigate the batarian terrorist threat on Citadel.
After Collector Attack on Normandy SR-1 & Shepard's Death
1. Coordinated efforts of Liara & Feron to recover Shepard's body for Cerberus, prevent the body from falling into Collector hands and infiltrate the Shadow Broker's organization.
2. Sometime after Collector attack & Shepard's death - Project Lazarus was started under the leadership of Miranda Lawson with the sole goal of bringing back Shepard. A clone Shepard body was made as spare parts. Alongside Lazarus, a separate cell was tasked to build Normandy SR2 equipped with EDI.
3. An unnamed project to create a device that disrupts higher mental functions to allow the victim to be controlled. Shut down sometime after Lazarus Project started and finally used in the Andromeda Galaxy by a team of ex-Cerberus scientists.
4. Infiltrated Alliance Ascension Project to take advantage of Alliance's biotic research by experimenting on Gilian Grayson. Obtained Flotilla's transmission codes and attacked the Migrant Fleet.
5. Used the rogue Hannibal class VI from Luna with additional engineering from Reaper technology to create EDI.
Mass Effect 2 (which takes place 2185)
1. Shepard was bought back to life and was tasked to recuit a team of specialists to handle the Collector threat.
2. Started the Firewalker project which resulted in the creation of the Hammerhead and discovery of Prothean artifact on Kopis which had useful information on biotics.
3. Ran Project Overlord in order to understand and manipulate Geth on Aite. This experiment ended horribly.
4. Sent an agent named Messner to the Collectors who gave then information about a colony on Fehl Prime to harvest in exchange for information.
In Between Mass Effect 2 & Mass Effect 3
1. Kidnapped Paul Grayson, Aria's worker on Omega and implanted him with Reaper technology. Prior to his kidnapping, Grayson had sent all the information he had on Cerberus to Kahlee Sanders. Sanders requested Admiral Anderson's help who then requested Turian assistance due to his uncertainty of Cerberus infiltration in Alliance hierarchy.
2. Invaded Omega, unseated Aria, used Omega as a supply hub and Cerberus' experimentation resulted in the creation of Adjutants.
3. Attempted to thwart Liara's research into Protheans on Kahje.
4. Maintained a research space station called Barn near planet LV426 to carry out experiments on humans, asari, krogan and turians involving Reaper technology to enhance their performance of weapons and biotics. These Reaper implans were intended to indoctrinate them.
Mass Effect 3 (which takes place 2186)
1. Experimented with Reaper technology to indoctrinate civilians and convert them to loyal Cerberus troops in Horizon. This was lead by Henry Lawson and discovered by Miranda Lawson and stopped by both her and Shepard.
2. Invaded Mars Prothean Research facility using an infiltration droid to gain information on the Crucible.
3. Attempted to kidnap biotics from Ascension Program to create more Phantoms.
4. Planned to attack Turian colony Aephus.
5. Raided several facilities throughout the galaxy and should Shepard attempt to drive them off, Cerberus would keep sending reinforcements.
6. Opposed Shepard's attempts to create an alliance between Turians and Krogans by raiding Sur'Kesh to kill fertile Krogan females and by attempting to detonate a massive bomb on Tuchanka.
7. Seized control of Krogan ground to space defense cannons on Tuchanka,
8. Attempted to hamper Alliance operations by assaulting Alliance communications hub on Ontarom.
9. Brutally oppressed civilians on Benning.
10. Occupied Eden Prime to recover the stasis pod containing Javik.
11. Launched coup attempt against Citadel Council with the help of Udina.
12. Pushed their science division to work on salvaged Reaper technology beyond Omega 4 Relay and made the scientists mysteriously disappear after their work was complete. When these scientists went into hiding, Cerberus sent a strike force against them.
13. Stole Prothean VI from Thessia which contained information needed to complete the Crucible.
14. Betrayed the existence of Crucible to the Reapers.
While some of the actions here are ascribed to "rogue cells", plenty of the things done here are highly unethical and downright evil and that's what Cerberus has been from the very beginning, even before the start of Mass Effect 1. With the exception of the Lazarus, Firewalker, stopping batarian terrorist attack on Citadel and creation of EDI pretty much all the other things Cerberus has done is shady at best and evil at worst.
Knowing this, why are many in the fandom surprised by the reactions of the Virmire Survivor, be it Ashley or Kaidan? Just imagine if you're, say, in the American military and you meet your romantic partner there. Your partner was declared Killed In Action and then two years later, you find out that your romantic partner is somehow back alive again and is working with organizations like Daesh / Al Qaeda / etc.
Of course you would lose your shit and that's what the Virmire Survivor did. Even if the Virmire Survivor came around to the claims that Shepard was doing this for the greater good of stopping the Reapers, what could they exactly do? Quit the Systems Alliance military just like that and join up? You don't just simply quit the military, even more so if you are from a military family background like Ashley. Additionally, prior to Shepard, no one in the universe was known to came back from the dead as fully themselves and not a clone or a droid or a VI. Dead is dead in ME universe until Shepard broke that rule.
I would argue that the reactions of Liara, Tali and Garrus are the ones that do not make much sense. Liara for blindly handing over Shepard's body to Cerberus on the promise of what is a medical miracle never before attempted or done in history despite being exposed to what Cerberus did in ME1. Tali for implicitly trusting Shepard easily (a single statement about Geth data in ME1 was enough to convince Tali somehow) despite what Cerberus did to the Quarian people. Garrus also for implicitly trusting Shepard despite knowing what Cerberus did in ME1. The actions of Liara, Tali and Garrus can be portrayed as either abundantly loyal to Shepard or highly desperate and infatuated with Shepard. Otherwise there would be some form of lingering suspicion that does not get resolved immediately, which we see with the Virmire survivor in ME3.
Finally, we do learn that there was an attempt to install a control chip into Shepard by Miranda Lawson which was thwarted by the Illusive Man. However, what if the Lazarus cell "went rogue" and did it anyway? Many Cerberus cells did "went rogue" after all. We also end up facing a clone of Shepard in ME3 who looks exactly like Shepard.
At the end of the day, taking all that we know about what Cerberus has done and what they are capable of, I think that the reaction of the Virmire survivor in ME2 and ME3 are the most natural and sensible reaction that is in character for them and it also shows that they are not blindly infatuated or obsessed with or desperate regarding Shepard.
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Post by themikefest on May 28, 2020 22:07:22 GMT
Of course you would lose your shit and that's what the Virmire Survivor did. I would be surprised to see Shepard alive, but I wouldn't lose my insides. What about Moreau and Chakwas? Moreau joined because he would be able to fly. Look at Gabby and Ken. They end up behind bars for joining Cerberus, but Chakwas and Moreau don't? I don't agree. The scene on Horizon was very poor. A/K for their reaction to the word Cerberus and Shepard for his/her poor explanation, if one wants to call it that, about Cerberus. I have no problem with A/K hating Cerberus, but both have to realize the collectors are the immediate threat. Lets look at the time Shepard was under house arrest. Why didn't A/K visit Shepard? If they still have feelings for Shepard, why not visit Shepard, talk with Shepard. It was a lame excuse for them not to visit. Had that happen, the dialogue between them on Mars might be different. There is another, Liara. Why didn't she inform anyone about Shepard being in Cerberus hands? All she had to do was tell Alliance Command who would decide if A/K need to know especially if they were in a relationship with Shepard. How different would the scene have been on Horizon? One thing I wanted to happen in ME3 was for my Shepard to tell A/K that it was t'soni that knew about my body being in the hands of Cerberus, but made no effort to tell anyone. What do you think the reaction would be from A/K?
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Post by Sonya on May 30, 2020 12:55:46 GMT
Knowing this, why are many in the fandom surprised by the reactions of the Virmire Survivor, be it Ashley or Kaidan? Very simple "WHY". That scene is poorly made. Very crappy I can say. Plus further things, which are very important. Of course you would lose your shit and that's what the Virmire Survivor did. As themikefest has mentioned in the previous post - yes, surprsed, though I would stay focused on what is REALLY important: people are collected by collectors. VS saw it, I try to explain this, but VS does not listen. WTH?! I always take Garrrus there only because of his one ANGRY line - that VS acts stupid. Even if the Virmire Survivor came around to the claims that Shepard was doing this for the greater good of stopping the Reapers, what could they exactly do? Use their brains writing in reports that people are collected, Shepard is working with Ceberus but writing Sheprd's words about coma, writng that Garrus e.g. is also working their considering "humanity is the first", asking more questions about those events, finding out that some other people VS knows are working there too (btw an enginer Greg knows about it all - Chakwas in ME3 tells about "inviting him" to help' - why isn't he mentioned in the game?) And another very important, if not one of the most importnat, things - T'Soni. She got the body - thank you, Liara. But she tells about it only to Shepard and ONLY under pressure. How about telling it to others, Liara? Are you such a coward not to tell that you are responsable for that? In ME2 she could have done it. In ME3? Mars - just tell already the truth to VS. But no, she just keeps silent. She is just a huge probleme in this case, if not for her cowardness and brainless behavior, things could have turned out very differently. Many other things can be mentioned, though the bottom line - yes, surprised, nothing wrong with it (romance or no), though instead of "why no letter from you" better ask "why people are collected" to get more info for those reports. Jusr poorly made scene that does not suit Ash and Kaiden characters in any case.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 3, 2020 23:09:05 GMT
The Illusive Man admits to leaking information to the Alliance regarding Shepard's survival. Do you think those leaks made Shepard look good? I certainly don't. And unlike Garrus, Tali, Joker, and Chakwas, that was the only information Kaidan/Ashley had access to until they actually encountered Shepard. We can thank Liara for that, since she was the only squadmate to the know whole story but apparently just couldn't be bothered to tell the others. Of course, if you consider that she admits to knowing about Tali's feelings for Shepard but staying quiet to improve her own chances, her silence looks much more sinister. Another major point that people keep missing: RESURECTIONS ARE NOT NORMAL IN THIS SETTING. To everyone not aware of the Lazarus Project, it looks like Shepard's death was faked. This is the main problem that so many people in the fanbase have: Fourth Wall Myopia
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 4, 2020 18:12:01 GMT
What about Moreau and Chakwas? Moreau joined because he would be able to fly. Look at Gabby and Ken. They end up behind bars for joining Cerberus, but Chakwas and Moreau don't? Moreau actually was under arrest as well. The only reason he was piloting the Normandy was because the Alliance needed his help to work on it since EDI pretended to be a VI that only responded to his commands. Privates Westmoreland and Campbell (the two who guard the scanner gate) were the ones who watched him as he worked on the ship. They were just in the middle of working on it when the Reapers attacked, so he was allowed to pilot to save the ship and those inside.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 4, 2020 18:19:42 GMT
The Illusive Man admits to leaking information to the Alliance regarding Shepard's survival. Do you think those leaks made Shepard look good? I certainly don't. And unlike Garrus, Tali, Joker, and Chakwas, that was the only information Kaidan/Ashley had access to until they actually encountered Shepard. We can thank Liara for that, since she was the only squadmate to the know whole story but apparently just couldn't be bothered to tell the others. Of course, if you consider that she admits to knowing about Tali's feelings for Shepard but staying quiet to improve her own chances, her silence looks much more sinister. Another major point that people keep missing: RESURECTIONS ARE NOT NORMAL IN THIS SETTING. To everyone not aware of the Lazarus Project, it looks like Shepard's death was faked. This is the main problem that so many people in the fanbase have: Fourth Wall MyopiaI really wished there was an option to kick or get rid of the Blue Creeper in the game.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 4, 2020 18:36:58 GMT
What about Moreau and Chakwas? Moreau joined because he would be able to fly. Look at Gabby and Ken. They end up behind bars for joining Cerberus, but Chakwas and Moreau don't? Moreau actually was under arrest as well. The only reason he was piloting the Normandy was because the Alliance needed his help to work on it since EDI pretended to be a VI that only responded to his commands. Privates Westmoreland and Campbell (the two who guard the scanner gate) were the ones who watched him as he worked on the ship. They were just in the middle of working on it when the Reapers attacked, so he was allowed to pilot to save the ship and those inside. And yet they couldn't have Gabby and Ken help with the retrofits since they were the ones who maintained the ship in ME2.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 4, 2020 19:08:02 GMT
Moreau actually was under arrest as well. The only reason he was piloting the Normandy was because the Alliance needed his help to work on it since EDI pretended to be a VI that only responded to his commands. Privates Westmoreland and Campbell (the two who guard the scanner gate) were the ones who watched him as he worked on the ship. They were just in the middle of working on it when the Reapers attacked, so he was allowed to pilot to save the ship and those inside. And yet they couldn't have Gabby and Ken help with the retrofits since they were the ones who maintained the ship in ME2. Oh I agree, though I think it's because Joker is always alive while Gabby could be dead so they only needed one variation of the script. Plus popularity.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 4, 2020 19:49:28 GMT
And yet they couldn't have Gabby and Ken help with the retrofits since they were the ones who maintained the ship in ME2. Oh I agree, though I think it's because Joker is always alive while Gabby could be dead so they only needed one variation of the script. Plus popularity. Popularity? Maybe, but it's more that he had the ME1 tag that Gabby and Ken and the other ME2 characters didn't have.
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 4, 2020 22:49:46 GMT
Chakwas also explains why she wasn't arrested. She got a proper leave of absence and never accepted payment for serving as the Normandy's doctor, so technically she never actually broke any laws, though she admits that the Reapers arriving before Shepard could be judged as a war criminal and Chakwas as an accessory was a lucky break for her.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 5, 2020 20:04:31 GMT
Chakwas also explains why she wasn't arrested. She got a proper leave of absence and never accepted payment for serving as the Normandy's doctor, so technically she never actually broke any laws, though she admits that the Reapers arriving before Shepard could be judged as a war criminal and Chakwas as an accessory was a lucky break for her. I always found it strange that Shep is charged with being a "war criminal" if you didn't do the Arrival DLC (in fact, I've never actually done that DLC with most of my playthoughs). In fact, shouldn't Alliance High Command be charged with failure to protect the human colonies in ME2?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 6, 2020 1:34:46 GMT
Chakwas also explains why she wasn't arrested. She got a proper leave of absence and never accepted payment for serving as the Normandy's doctor, so technically she never actually broke any laws, though she admits that the Reapers arriving before Shepard could be judged as a war criminal and Chakwas as an accessory was a lucky break for her. I always found it strange that Shep is charged with being a "war criminal" if you didn't do the Arrival DLC (in fact, I've never actually done that DLC with most of my playthoughs). In fact, shouldn't Alliance High Command be charged with failure to protect the human colonies in ME2? The colonies weren’t part of the Alliance. They wanted independence thus why they established themselves in the Terminus Systems. Even then the Alliance was trying, as seen with the VS sent to set up defense turrets despite all the hate they got. As for Shepard being a war criminal without the Arrival DLC, they did still help a terrorist organization that has committed many such crimes.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 6, 2020 3:46:18 GMT
I always found it strange that Shep is charged with being a "war criminal" if you didn't do the Arrival DLC (in fact, I've never actually done that DLC with most of my playthoughs). In fact, shouldn't Alliance High Command be charged with failure to protect the human colonies in ME2? The colonies weren’t part of the Alliance. They wanted independence thus why they established themselves in the Terminus Systems. Even then the Alliance was trying, as seen with the VS sent to set up defense turrets despite all the hate they got. As for Shepard being a war criminal without the Arrival DLC, they did still help a terrorist organization that has committed many such crimes. Is it not the Alliance's job to protect humanity? If so then they did a lousy job of it. And the VS wasn't sent to that colony to help it, the VS was sent there to spy on Shepard. The defence platforms was just a ruse (hence why they didn't work well, it was to allow the VS to stay there longer). And Cerberus a terrorist organisation? Funny, because they were once a Alliance Black Ops organisation. Does that make the Alliance terrorists too? Also, while we're on that subject, the Spectres can and have commited acts of mass murder on civilians, does that also make them terrorists? As well as the Council?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 6, 2020 5:42:25 GMT
The colonies weren’t part of the Alliance. They wanted independence thus why they established themselves in the Terminus Systems. Even then the Alliance was trying, as seen with the VS sent to set up defense turrets despite all the hate they got. As for Shepard being a war criminal without the Arrival DLC, they did still help a terrorist organization that has committed many such crimes. Is it not the Alliance's job to protect humanity? If so then they did a lousy job of it. And the VS wasn't sent to that colony to help it, the VS was sent there to spy on Shepard. The defence platforms was just a ruse (hence why they didn't work well, it was to allow the VS to stay there longer). And Cerberus a terrorist organisation? Funny, because they were once a Alliance Black Ops organisation. Does that make the Alliance terrorists too? Also, while we're on that subject, the Spectres can and have commited acts of mass murder on civilians, does that also make them terrorists? As well as the Council? The Alliance is a nation. If people don't want to be a part of or have anything to do with a nation, no it's not the nation's job to protect them. They still can, but that's not an act based on obligation. That's an...interesting take on the turrets not being ready yet, as opposed to the Collectors going there earlier than expected since TIM told them. I see that mission as serving both tasks. Cerberus went rogue, so no the Alliance isn't responsible for their actions. No more than the Council or Turian Hierarchy are responsible for Saren's actions after he defected. Though that is an argument for all spec ops groups isn't it?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 6, 2020 5:55:40 GMT
Is it not the Alliance's job to protect humanity? If so then they did a lousy job of it. And the VS wasn't sent to that colony to help it, the VS was sent there to spy on Shepard. The defence platforms was just a ruse (hence why they didn't work well, it was to allow the VS to stay there longer). And Cerberus a terrorist organisation? Funny, because they were once a Alliance Black Ops organisation. Does that make the Alliance terrorists too? Also, while we're on that subject, the Spectres can and have commited acts of mass murder on civilians, does that also make them terrorists? As well as the Council? The Alliance is a nation. If people don't want to be a part of or have anything to do with a nation, no it's not the nation's job to protect them. They still can, but that's not an act based on obligation. That's an...interesting take on the turrets not being ready yet, as opposed to the Collectors going there earlier than expected since TIM told them. I see that mission as serving both tasks. Cerberus went rogue, so no the Alliance isn't responsible for their actions. No more than the Council or Turian Hierarchy are responsible for Saren's actions after he defected. Though that is an argument for all spec ops groups isn't it? Then they would have to face crowds of angry relatives who lost loved ones while they did nothing to stop it. Along with more then a few pissed off soldiers who actually wanted to put a stop to it, but could not, because the Alliance said "No". The colony's mechanic states that the targeting system for those turrets were not working right. So, either the Alliance gave them dodgey defences, or they made sure that they wouldn't work right so that the VS could stay there longer. As for TIM, maybe he knew about the turrets or didn't, the game never states that. I wasn't talking about Saren, I was talking about Nilius.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 6, 2020 6:13:10 GMT
The Alliance is a nation. If people don't want to be a part of or have anything to do with a nation, no it's not the nation's job to protect them. They still can, but that's not an act based on obligation. That's an...interesting take on the turrets not being ready yet, as opposed to the Collectors going there earlier than expected since TIM told them. I see that mission as serving both tasks. Cerberus went rogue, so no the Alliance isn't responsible for their actions. No more than the Council or Turian Hierarchy are responsible for Saren's actions after he defected. Though that is an argument for all spec ops groups isn't it? Then they would have to face crowds of angry relatives who lost loved ones while they did nothing to stop it. Along with more then a few pissed off soldiers who actually wanted to put a stop to it, but could not, because the Alliance said "No". The colony's mechanic states that the targeting system for those turrets were not working right. So, either the Alliance gave them dodgey defences, or they made sure that they wouldn't work right so that the VS could stay there longer. As for TIM, maybe he knew about the turrets or didn't, the game never states that. I wasn't talking about Saren, I was talking about Nilius. Maybe, but those lost loved ones also made a choice to leave. The only ones to blame at that point are the ones who made them lost, not the nation they left. If someone decided to leave your country then got kidnapped or killed, your country isn’t the one responsible for that. Saren was being used as a similar example to Cerberus in that both went rogue thus the nations they are from aren’t responsible for their actions.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 6, 2020 6:20:15 GMT
Then they would have to face crowds of angry relatives who lost loved ones while they did nothing to stop it. Along with more then a few pissed off soldiers who actually wanted to put a stop to it, but could not, because the Alliance said "No". The colony's mechanic states that the targeting system for those turrets were not working right. So, either the Alliance gave them dodgey defences, or they made sure that they wouldn't work right so that the VS could stay there longer. As for TIM, maybe he knew about the turrets or didn't, the game never states that. I wasn't talking about Saren, I was talking about Nilius. Maybe, but those lost loved ones also made a choice to leave. The only ones to blame at that point are the ones who made them lost, not the nation they left. If someone decided to leave your country then got kidnapped or killed, your country isn’t the one responsible for that. Saren was being used as a similar example to Cerberus in that both went rogue thus the nations they are from aren’t responsible for their actions. Well, in that case, the Alliance is a liar should be disbanded for failing to do it's duty to humanity. If it can't actually stand up for what it claims to be for, what's the point of them even existing?
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Post by eliscous on Jun 6, 2020 17:53:39 GMT
I can understand the VS badly reacting on the Horizon. I don't know for non romance VS but for romance one you get it in the after email and ME3 that he/ she was lost and reacting badly. After 2 years of mourning the VS was finally starting to move on and seeing Shepard again just throw everything into the airlock. The VS didn't react to his / her brains, but her /his guts. What I don't get is the Shepard's reaction. There is no dialogue accordingly. You can't explain yourself and you're denied all the game alone for any attempt at explanation. The fact is Horizon is just really, really poorly written and even in ME 3 there is no satisfactory manner to discuss this. You have to fill the plot yourself. Personally, what annoys me more is the reaction of the VS on Mars in ME 3. Even if you choose to destroy the CB and you let put yourself under arrest the VS still doubt you and need a near death experience to change his / her behavior. The VS never try to contact after the email or during your house arrest. And even if you help the Alliance all along during ME 2 this is not even addressed in ME 3 and make in the end no difference.
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1,576
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by sageoflife on Jun 6, 2020 23:25:15 GMT
I can understand the VS badly reacting on the Horizon. I don't know for non romance VS but for romance one you get it in the after email and ME3 that he/ she was lost and reacting badly. After 2 years of mourning the VS was finally starting to move on and seeing Shepard again just throw everything into the airlock. The VS didn't react to his / her brains, but her /his guts. What I don't get is the Shepard's reaction. There is no dialogue accordingly. You can't explain yourself and you're denied all the game alone for any attempt at explanation. The fact is Horizon is just really, really poorly written and even in ME 3 there is no satisfactory manner to discuss this. You have to fill the plot yourself. Personally, what annoys me more is the reaction of the VS on Mars in ME 3. Even if you choose to destroy the CB and you let put yourself under arrest the VS still doubt you and need a near death experience to change his / her behavior. The VS never try to contact after the email or during your house arrest. And even if you help the Alliance all along during ME 2 this is not even addressed in ME 3 and make in the end no difference. They were probably never told about the assistance Shepard gave the Alliance, just like they likely weren't told that the Illusive Man wanted to preserve the base.
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11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,758
Sonya
1,352
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jun 7, 2020 11:50:19 GMT
the Alliance is a liar should be disbanded for failing to do it's duty to humanity. If it can't actually stand up for what it claims to be for, what's the point of them even existing? The Alliance, as other people, has it own dirty secrets. Just take ME1 "Negotiations" task for a Renegade Shepard. What the Alliance did there, wanted to do, was ready to do, used Shepard for that to tell "our hands are clean, Shep is a Spectre - nothing is wrong' - just thinking about it does not show "the humanity-stand"-for-institution" in great light. Each race has its own dirty secrets: that fucking asari hinding the whole beacon and at the same time making a strict punishment law for hiding ANY prothean artifacts? Great example of "great-thinkers". Stupid bitches. Maybe indeed Shepard was right telling that phrase "if not for them....". What I am saying: I agree actually about "poor protection" of even "not colonies", and there are always "buts". If it is convenient for the Alliance, why not help some remote colony with those turrets all of a sudden - that is what those colonists think. In fact - they just did what you have described, including VS. I agree with that. Nobody is saint. Is it good or bad? Depends. ------ Did VS know about ALL facts? We do not know, but the rule of a soldier "use your brains" did not go anywhere. And we hear that from Ash and Kaidan in the end, that they are Alliance soldiers. So act like it.
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inherit
2754
0
Nov 26, 2024 23:01:44 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 12:10:07 GMT
the Alliance is a liar should be disbanded for failing to do it's duty to humanity. If it can't actually stand up for what it claims to be for, what's the point of them even existing? The Alliance, as other people, has it own dirty secrets. Just take ME1 "Negotiations" task for a Renegade Shepard. What the Alliance did there, wanted to do, was ready to do, used Shepard for that to tell "our hands are clean, Shep is a Spectre - nothing is wrong' - just thinking about it does not show "the humanity-stand"-for-institution" in great light. Each race has its own dirty secrets: that fucking asari hinding the whole beacon and at the same time making a strict punishment law for hiding ANY prothean artifacts? Great example of "great-thinkers". Stupid bitches. Maybe indeed Shepard was right telling that phrase "if not for them....". What I am saying: I agree actually about "poor protection" of even "not colonies", and there are always "buts". If it is convenient for the Alliance, why not help some remote colony with those turrets all of a sudden - that is what those colonists think. In fact - they just did what you have described, including VS. I agree with that. Nobody is saint. Is it good or bad? Depends. ------ Did VS know about ALL facts? We do not know, but the rule of a soldier "use your brains" did not go anywhere. And we hear that from Ash and Kaidan in the end, that they are Alliance soldiers. So act like it. Also, the asari also withheld information about those defective birthed asari who feed off of others life force.
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inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,758
Sonya
1,352
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jun 7, 2020 12:15:33 GMT
Also, the asari also withheld information about those defective birthed asari who feed off of others life force. Javik suggested a solution to it. Might have worked. Anyway yeah, many people hate quarians (me included), though asari, considering their hypocrisy, are no better anyway. Might compete with each other "who's worse" forever.
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inherit
2754
0
Nov 26, 2024 23:01:44 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 12:19:18 GMT
Also, the asari also withheld information about those defective birthed asari who feed off of others life force. Javik suggested a solution to it. Might have worked. Anyway yeah, many people hate quarians (me included), though asari, considering their hypocrisy, are no better anyway. Might compete with each other "who's worse" forever. They actually remind me of the Eldar from W40k, minus the whole "birthing a Chaos God" thing due to them not keeping it in their pants and binging drugs and not taking responsibility for it.
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inherit
11368
0
Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
1,758
Sonya
1,352
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jun 7, 2020 12:25:35 GMT
They actually remind me of the Eldar from W40k, minus the whole "birthing a Chaos God" thing due to them not keeping it in their pants and binging drugs and not taking responsibility for it. A game without hating ssomeone is not a game. Even BW devs told it - if you like all our characters, we did our job very bad.
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inherit
2754
0
Nov 26, 2024 23:01:44 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2020 12:29:59 GMT
They actually remind me of the Eldar from W40k, minus the whole "birthing a Chaos God" thing due to them not keeping it in their pants and binging drugs and not taking responsibility for it. A game without hating ssomeone is not a game. Even BW devs told it - if you like all our characters, we did our job very bad. True that. Out of the main groups, my top 3 are: 1. The Batarians. 2. The Alliance. 3. The Council races.
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