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Post by Hier0phant on Aug 16, 2020 3:39:47 GMT
A gym is only a small part of the equation. To acquire Abby's gains you would need to consume hundreds of grams of protein, carbs, and a few thousand calories a day to maintain that physique. The amount of food Abby needs to consume on a daily basis in combination with the nutritional needs of the other WLF soldiers would be huge, but this isn't supported in game based on what was shown to the player. Then there's the issue of Druckmann using a crossfit athlete to model for Abby despite the sport being plagued with bans for restricted substances, or WLF potentially wasting needed resources to maintain a pristine gym. Do you want cutscenes of her cramming down chicken breasts or what? Do you think these banned substances could not be found in the many abandoned houses, hospitals, and pharmacies across the land? Do you think Abby, a person who's dedicated her life to taking down an utter psychopath like Joel, would not take those substances to give herself an edge? I'm not sure food has ever been shown as being in any great scarcity in the Last of Us universe. Deer, and other animals, would move into abounded cites - and you get a lot of protein from Venison. I dare say, Members of the WLF could even have a better diet than the majority of Mountain Dew and Mcdonalds feasting gamers these days. The cutscene would be unnecessary vs seeing a WLF farm with hundreds of livestock, but Druckmann miscalculated the amount of livestock (bigger farmland than what was shown) and food needed to feed a community the size of WLF especially one that likes to burn calories at the gym which increases the community's overall consumption of food, but we are only shown that one burrito is given out per person. About Abby taking banned substances, iirc all manner of supplements and anabolic steroid have expiration dates and if steroids and Whey are somehow still being manufactured 3 decades after society's collapse the priorities of it's manufacturers should be called into question. A gym is only a small part of the equation. To acquire Abby's gains you would need to consume hundreds of grams of protein, carbs, and a few thousand calories a day to maintain that physique. The amount of food Abby needs to consume on a daily basis in combination with the nutritional needs of the other WLF soldiers would be huge, but this isn't supported in game based on what was shown to the player. Then there's the issue of Druckmann using a crossfit athlete to model for Abby despite the sport being plagued with bans for restricted substances, or WLF potentially wasting needed resources to maintain a pristine gym. The kind of muscle mass that Joel, Tommy, Jessie and every other male character in the game possess as standard also requires a fairly strict diet and workout regimen in order to acheive and maintain in real life, even without an apocalypse. None of the characters have "average" builds, especially not for a society where food is supposedly scarce (which I don't believe anyone in the game says is the case). Why does Abby's physique need "in-game support"? Why do you even care? In the game about a slight teenage girl taking down mushroom zombies and surviving many things that ought to kill her outright, why do you need precious time and resources devoted to explaining how Abby got her muscles? Even if it's steroids, *who gives a shit*? The comparisons don't hold up. The work the male characters needed to acquire their physiques are not comparable to the work a female character like Abby needed to produce in order to acquire and maintain her gains. If we had male characters running around that were built like prime Arnold Schwarzenneger or Lou Ferigno in the TLOU verse many of us would still call out the writers. Plus Abby's body was alledged to be modeled after a crossfit athlete. Having someone being built like a competitive sports athlete who has unhindered access to all of modern society's resources in a post apocalyptic setting is jarring and creates a dissonance in the narrative between what is shown and stated. It doesn't matter if the setting is a high fantasy with dragons, and wizards or a futuristic steampunk with cyborgs, the biggest issue with crafting an immersive setting is consistency, and Abby's gains (unless she's a genetic mutant) is inconsistent and at odds with TLOU's world state. Plus many people gave a shit about Abby's gains, people like to tout TLOU2's narrative as 10/10 writing the crème de la crème of vidya that's comparable to Citizen Kane, so it's only fair game that it's analyzed for inconsistencies like such.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 16, 2020 4:00:49 GMT
One reviewer tweeting something stupid doesn't make it fair game to cherrypick one woman's physical appearance. Yes, it's a contrivance. All fiction is contrivance. Even if Abby wasn't modeled on a real-life person and Naughty Dog had no "explanation", it wouldn't matter. Whether Abby obtained her physique through strict diet and exercise, drugs, genetic fluke or a combination of the 3, no explanation is owed to the player, anymore than you would be owed an explanation if you saw someone with her build in real life. What Abby does or does not do to maintain her physique isn't anybody's business. Tell yourself it's steroids if you want to, and then leave it be.
Out of the many, MANY contrivances one has to accept for the story to hang together in the first place, one character being stacked in a way that is unusual, but still *theoretically* possible is the last thing anyone should be focussing on, especially if they want their criticism to be accepted as legitimate and not seen as a product of sexism.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 16, 2020 5:51:32 GMT
One reviewer tweeting something stupid doesn't make it fair game to cherrypick one woman's physical appearance. Yes, it's a contrivance. All fiction is contrivance. Even if Abby wasn't modeled on a real-life person and Naughty Dog had no "explanation", it wouldn't matter. Whether Abby obtained her physique through strict diet and exercise, drugs, genetic fluke or a combination of the 3, no explanation is owed to the player, anymore than you would be owed an explanation if you saw someone with her build in real life. What Abby does or does not do to maintain her physique isn't anybody's business. Tell yourself it's steroids if you want to, and then leave it be. Out of the many, MANY contrivances one has to accept for the story to hang together in the first place, one character being stacked in a way that is unusual, but still *theoretically* possible is the last thing anyone should be focussing on, especially if they want their criticism to be accepted as legitimate and not seen as a product of sexism. "Fiction occasionally requires suspension of disbelief, so pointing out implausible, inexplicable and out-of-place elements that I'm fine with is inherently invalid criticism. And if you disagree then you're dirty sexist. Because reasons."
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 16, 2020 5:58:27 GMT
One reviewer tweeting something stupid doesn't make it fair game to cherrypick one woman's physical appearance. Yes, it's a contrivance. All fiction is contrivance. Even if Abby wasn't modeled on a real-life person and Naughty Dog had no "explanation", it wouldn't matter. Whether Abby obtained her physique through strict diet and exercise, drugs, genetic fluke or a combination of the 3, no explanation is owed to the player, anymore than you would be owed an explanation if you saw someone with her build in real life. What Abby does or does not do to maintain her physique isn't anybody's business. Tell yourself it's steroids if you want to, and then leave it be. Out of the many, MANY contrivances one has to accept for the story to hang together in the first place, one character being stacked in a way that is unusual, but still *theoretically* possible is the last thing anyone should be focussing on, especially if they want their criticism to be accepted as legitimate and not seen as a product of sexism. "Fiction occasionally requires suspension of disbelief, so pointing out implausible, inexplicable and out-of-place elements that I'm fine with is inherently invalid criticism. And if you disagree then you're dirty sexist. Because reasons." Except it is possible for women to look like Abby in real life, and some do, so actually no suspension of disbelief is required. Your willingness to suspend disbelief for mushroom zombies but not for Abby's appearance is absolutely sexist. Singling a woman out for something that you would let slide if a man was doing it is the very essence of sexism.
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Post by ClarkKent on Aug 16, 2020 6:12:38 GMT
Do you want cutscenes of her cramming down chicken breasts or what? Do you think these banned substances could not be found in the many abandoned houses, hospitals, and pharmacies across the land? Do you think Abby, a person who's dedicated her life to taking down an utter psychopath like Joel, would not take those substances to give herself an edge? I'm not sure food has ever been shown as being in any great scarcity in the Last of Us universe. Deer, and other animals, would move into abounded cites - and you get a lot of protein from Venison. I dare say, Members of the WLF could even have a better diet than the majority of Mountain Dew and Mcdonalds feasting gamers these days. The cutscene would be unnecessary vs seeing a WLF farm with hundreds of livestock, but Druckmann miscalculated the amount of livestock (bigger farmland than what was shown) and food needed to feed a community the size of WLF especially one that likes to burn calories at the gym which increases the community's overall consumption of food, but we are only shown that one burrito is given out per person. About Abby taking banned substances, iirc all manner of supplements and anabolic steroid have expiration dates and if steroids and Whey are someone still being manufactured 3 decades after society's collapse the priorities of it's manufacturers should be called into question. Burritos are in short supply because they're a finite item from the old world so they function as a 'treat'. Deer, and other livestock would not be. Iirc you actually see what happens when Abby stops training and eating at the end when she's on the beach in that beautifully haunting scene.
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 16, 2020 6:20:56 GMT
Except it is possible for women to look like Abby in real life, and some do, so actually no suspension of disbelief is required. Your willingness to suspend disbelief for mushroom zombies but not for Abby's appearance is absolutely sexist. Singling a woman out for something that you would let slide if a man was doing it is the very essence of sexism. Perfectly wrong on all three counts. First off, I don't know how much experience you have with working out and building muscle, but I have quite a bit, and have both male and female acquaintances who do as well. A woman growing those guns while scavenging for food and working semi-regular hours as military personnel 26 years after the end of civilization? Not a natural occurrence. Simple as that. Second, men and women absolutely build muscle very differently. Pointing that out and using it to inform a criticism isn't sexism any more than using the words "men" and "women" in any context anywhere is. Calling people sexist just for doing so is ignorant and delusional. Thirdly, no it fucking isn't. The essence of sexism is unreasonably refusing to let something slide for a woman that you would for a man. By your definition, any differential treatment between men and woman in any context is sexist. Which is stupid and insane. All that said, I definitely agree with you. This game has waaaaay bigger problems than Abby's biceps. To the point where it really is rather silly to get hung up on them. They're just one of the more... eye-catching issues.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 16, 2020 7:19:37 GMT
Except it is possible for women to look like Abby in real life, and some do, so actually no suspension of disbelief is required. Your willingness to suspend disbelief for mushroom zombies but not for Abby's appearance is absolutely sexist. Singling a woman out for something that you would let slide if a man was doing it is the very essence of sexism. Perfectly wrong on all three counts. First off, I don't know how much experience you have with working out and building muscle, but I have quite a bit, and have both male and female acquaintances who do as well. A woman growing those guns while scavenging for food and working semi-regular hours as military personnel 26 years after the end of civilization? Not a natural occurrence. Simple as that. Second, men and women absolutely build muscle very differently. Pointing that out and using it to inform a criticism isn't sexism any more than using the words "men" and "women" in any context anywhere is. Calling people sexist just for doing so is ignorant and delusional. Thirdly, no it fucking isn't. The essence of sexism is unreasonably refusing to let something slide for a woman that you would for a man. By your definition, any differential treatment between men and woman in any context is sexist. Which is stupid and insane. All that said, I definitely agree with you. This game has waaaaay bigger problems than Abby's biceps. To the point where it really is rather silly to get hung up on them. They're just one of the more... eye-catching issues. I didn't say Abby's muscle mass was a natural occurence. I don't know how it occurred, and I don't care. I gave up on the game for reasons that have nothing to do with Abby's appearance. It doesn't matter how she built it, she's modeled from a real woman, she has muscles that a woman can get, through some means or other. You *are* being unreasonable. I had assumed that went without saying. Harping on the appearance of a fictional woman as if THAT is the thing that renders the narrative implausible and ruins the entire game is incredibly unreasonable, especially from someone who hasn't played it. *Continuing* to do so for weeks and weeks is beyond the pale. It's absurd. And the thing is, there are plenty of reasons to dislike TLOU2. I fucking hate it. It's dreary, humorless and trite, and those qualities are exacerbated by the ridiculous, vain notion that the game is saying something original or clever. The major characters aren't sympathetic and the minor ones aren't interesting. Literally the only positive thing I can say about it is that not all the queer characters get immediately murdered. But of course, OF COURSE, out of all the perfectly valid reasons to dislike TLOU2, what "gamers" latched onto was the smallest, pettiest, most inconsequential thing: that one lady had big muscles, and therefore the game is a big SJW lizardpeople conspiracy to take away the last male safe space. And of course you're here to bolster their position with "logic" and "facts" about how women build muscle. Of course you are.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 16, 2020 7:44:44 GMT
I didn't say Abby's muscle mass was a natural occurence. I don't know how it occurred, and I don't care. I gave up on the game for reasons that have nothing to do with Abby's appearance. It doesn't matter how she built it, she's modeled from a real woman, she has muscles that a woman can get, through some means or other. You *are* being unreasonable. I had assumed that went without saying. Harping on the appearance of a fictional woman as if THAT is the thing that renders the narrative implausible and ruins the entire game is incredibly unreasonable, especially from someone who hasn't played it. *Continuing* to do so for weeks and weeks is beyond the pale. It's absurd. And the thing is, there are plenty of reasons to dislike TLOU2. I fucking hate it. It's dreary, humorless and trite, and those qualities are exacerbated by the ridiculous, vain notion that the game is saying something original or clever. The major characters aren't sympathetic and the minor ones aren't interesting. Literally the only positive thing I can say about it is that not all the queer characters get immediately murdered. But of course, OF COURSE, out of all the perfectly valid reasons to dislike TLOU2, what "gamers" latched onto was the smallest, pettiest, most inconsequential thing: that one lady had big muscles, and therefore the game is a big SJW lizardpeople conspiracy to take away the last male safe space. And of course you're here to bolster their position with "logic" and "facts" about how women build muscle. Of course you are. She has muscles that a real woman can get over years by spending an extensive amount of free time working out while on a generous diet of protein and fat, potentially aided by steroid use. All of which are... things you funnily enough don't have consistent access to in a post-apocalyptic scenario. Which is what the game is set in. How strange. And while you might at a stretch be able to imagine her finagling all that as part of the W.L.F, she certainly doesn't have those luxuries while traveling with Lev for a year, during which she mysteriously manages to maintain said musculature. That would be very, very impressive for a man to achieve, let alone a woman. It'd also be a really stupid use of those resources. I don't know if anyone is calling it the breaking point of the game as you're saying, because that would sure be ridiculous. But an implausibility it absolutely is, and the amount of time you spend staring at those muscles in the game makes it an obvious point of conversation. If you for whatever reason can't handle that then ignore it, but don't call people sexists just because they're discussing something you don't want to talk about. As I said, I totally agree that the game is full of rather more pressing issues, most of which you just mentioned, most of which others have mentioned as well. And no, I'm not here to bolster anyone's position. I mostly just popped by to do that idiotic reductive straw man quotation thing you're so fond of and see how it felt, and throw in my own two cents when you inevitably rose to the bait. And besides, you're just talking out of your ass when it comes to the builds of other characters in both games. These are all completely reasonable builds for grown men who lead active lives on even just relatively steady diets. Notice the lack of obvious bulk that comes from regular bursts of extreme muscle exercise and excess protein. The most 'buff' is obvously Joel, who had the naturally largest frame of the three even before the apocalypse and who we know for a fact spent years in Boston running an extremely lucrative job that involved plenty of brawling and heavy lifting as a legbreaker and smuggler up until we met him there, and even he is on the lanky side of muscular with the natural gauntness of advancing middle-age.
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Post by Hier0phant on Aug 16, 2020 11:36:19 GMT
The cutscene would be unnecessary vs seeing a WLF farm with hundreds of livestock, but Druckmann miscalculated the amount of livestock (bigger farmland than what was shown) and food needed to feed a community the size of WLF especially one that likes to burn calories at the gym which increases the community's overall consumption of food, but we are only shown that one burrito is given out per person. About Abby taking banned substances, iirc all manner of supplements and anabolic steroid have expiration dates and if steroids and Whey are someone still being manufactured 3 decades after society's collapse the priorities of it's manufacturers should be called into question. Burritos are in short supply because they're a finite item from the old world so they function as a 'treat'. Deer, and other livestock would not be. Iirc you actually see what happens when Abby stops training and eating at the end when she's on the beach in that beautifully haunting scene. With the WLF's capabilities burritos being a finite old world item is silly. If the residents of Jackson can bake bread the WLF should be capable of baking burrito bread wrap and improvising the other ingredients. What we are shown onscreen of the WLF's designated farming site doesn't support the food needed to feed the community, while the hunting of deer is a good counter it runs many risks thanks to the potential for conflict with the Scars or the infected during a hunt, then there's the logistics in tracking migrating deer during winter. Abby stops training is an understatement, she was nearly starved to death. Those beautiful gains all lost like tears in rain.
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Post by ClarkKent on Aug 16, 2020 11:40:47 GMT
Abby's physique really isn't that crazy. The way people go on about her you'd think she's Brock Lesnar. She has big arms with a decent amount of tone. She doesn't have cannonball delts or mountainous traps. She looks like a women that's obviously genetically gifted and works out hard in the gym that they show in the first 10 minutes. If you want some comparisons take a look at some of the women in the UFC. These women are subject to USADA testing so no steroids. They also train in a cardio intensive sport which would make it even harder to build muscle mass yet they find a way. This is where you'll talk about food. Well, as I said before the Last of Us universe has never presented itself as having a food scarcity so it's not really an issue.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 16, 2020 13:43:19 GMT
These women are subject to USADA testing so no steroids. They also train in a cardio intensive sport which would make it even harder to build muscle mass yet they find a way. This is where you'll talk about food. Well, as I said before the Last of Us universe has never presented itself as having a food scarcity so it's not really an issue. UFC fighters also train and build their muscles for a living using modern workout regimes and professional coaches, and go absolutely nuts in the days leading up to matches to pack on that extra pound or two for the fight and the cameras, like on those pictures. And they don't just 'eat okay from day to day', they drink protein like it's water. That kind of routine isn't something you can realistically build your day around either while traveling the ruins of America with a kid to look out for or going scouting with your W.L.F. buddies. And if I was one of those buddies I certainly wouldn't appreciate you eating twice the amount of food everyone else gets just to keep those gains. You know, our food. And as for the Last of Us never having presented itself as having a food scarcity, I'll refer to the very first scenes post-timeskip in the first game where Joel and Tess pass a dozen people all cursing and moaning about another week of half rations in the Boston QZ. Oh, and Amanda Nunes, the woman in the lower picture whose build during that nationally televised fight almost resembles Abby's after a year on the road with Lev, is considered one of the most powerful female strikers in the history of fighting sports, if not outright the most powerful. That's... a very grounded comparison you're making.
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Post by ClarkKent on Aug 16, 2020 14:42:58 GMT
These women are subject to USADA testing so no steroids. They also train in a cardio intensive sport which would make it even harder to build muscle mass yet they find a way. This is where you'll talk about food. Well, as I said before the Last of Us universe has never presented itself as having a food scarcity so it's not really an issue. UFC fighters also train and build their muscles for a living using modern workout regimes and professional coaches, and go absolutely nuts in the days leading up to matches to pack on that extra pound or two for the fight and the cameras, like on those pictures. And they don't just 'eat okay from day to day', they drink protein like it's water. That kind of routine isn't something you can realistically build your day around either while traveling the ruins of America with a kid to look out for or going scouting with your W.L.F. buddies. And if I was one of those buddies I certainly wouldn't appreciate you eating twice the amount of food everyone else gets just to keep those gains. You know, our food. And as for the Last of Us never having presented itself as having a food scarcity, I'll refer to the very first scenes post-timeskip in the first game where Joel and Tess pass a dozen people all cursing and moaning about another week of half rations in the Boston QZ. Oh, and Amanda Nunes, the woman in the lower picture whose build during that nationally televised fight almost resembles Abby's after a year on the road with Lev, is considered one of the most powerful female strikers in the history of fighting sports, if not outright the most powerful. That's... a very grounded comparison you're making. Actually during the run-up to fights - fighters are usually a little smaller than they would be in day to day life. Holly Holm in that picture would have to watch her weight and muscle mass levels in fear of missing weight. She's already bigger than Abby in that picture, and she would probably be a lot bigger when she's not in fight camp(less toned though). Abby already had the muscle mass when she was travelling America. If you're eating well(plenty of deer, rabbits on the road etc), and regularly doing things that stress the muscles(choking out zombies does a number on the biceps) then muscle does not waste away that easily. And, is there any reason Abby couldn't be an elite athlete during times of normality? Also you might complain about Abby having some extra steak, but, at the same time, you might not be the same level of Asset as Abby is for the WLF. Abby in response to her trauma has literally dedicated her body and mind to one day taking down one of the most dangerous men. It's asserted from the beginning that she is of greater competency than her fellow soldiers. I know if I were WLF leader I wouldn't have anything against giving her a few extra bits of steak if it means more dead scars.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,981 Likes: 3,493
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 16, 2020 15:45:16 GMT
Actually during the run-up to fights - fighters are usually a little smaller than they would be in day to day life. Holly Holm in that picture would have to watch her weight and muscle mass levels in fear of missing weight. She's already bigger than Abby in that picture, and she would probably be a lot bigger when she's not in fight camp(less toned though). Abby already had the muscle mass when she was travelling America. If you're eating well(plenty of deer, rabbits on the road etc), and regularly doing things that stress the muscles(choking out zombies does a number on the biceps) then muscle does not waste away that easily. And, is there any reason Abby couldn't be an elite athlete during times of normality? Also you might complain about Abby having some extra steak, but, at the same time, you might not be the same level of Asset as Abby is for the WLF. Abby in response to her trauma has literally dedicated her body and mind to one day taking down one of the most dangerous men. It's asserted from the beginning that she is of greater competency than her fellow soldiers. I know if I were WLF leader I wouldn't have anything against giving her a few extra bits of steak if it means more dead scars. Explain that first point? I'm not sure what you're saying makes sense, and it's certainly not what I've heard from professional athletes and MMA fighters. Sure she could keep something resembling the same shape for a few months if she ate well and stayed active, as you say. But for a year? With none of the accommodations she theoretically had as a W.L.F asset, and a child to look after? No way. She would lose it little by little and at best return to something closer to Tommy's and Joel's farmer strength builds, assuming regular encounters with clickers and other survivors. But she doesn't. She's exactly as built after a year of roughing it with no resources and an extra mouth to feed as she was with the W.L.F supposedly sponsoring her diet and training to keep her in tip-top shape. And again it feels like you're trying to undermine the difference between 'an elite athlete' and 'world-class superstar Jiu-Jitsu fighter', which really isn't helping your case in my eyes. Sure Isaac might not begrudge her an extra steak, but it would absolutely cause extra tension between group members on scouting missions with limited rations to go around and tempers running hot. And my own impression of Abby is that she wouldn't want her friends to feel like she puts herself above them even in her desire for revenge. Just saying. And that she builds herself up like that specifically to battle Joel is your own conjecture. I agree that it's the most logical explanation, but there's still not a single line of dialogue in the game that supports it so far as I'm aware. She doesn't speak or act like someone truly laser-focused on revenge when she isn't actively hunting down Joel, either before or after, and she obviously maintains the build long after the deed is done, so I find the idea that she's warped herself so grotesquely for that reason alone a bit hard to swallow going by what we actually see of her.
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Post by mugwump on Aug 16, 2020 16:00:05 GMT
Getting in 'fight shape' usually necessitates losing no little weight and fighters will often cut up to an additional 20lbs of water weight prior to weigh ins.
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Post by ClarkKent on Aug 16, 2020 17:09:23 GMT
Actually during the run-up to fights - fighters are usually a little smaller than they would be in day to day life. Holly Holm in that picture would have to watch her weight and muscle mass levels in fear of missing weight. She's already bigger than Abby in that picture, and she would probably be a lot bigger when she's not in fight camp(less toned though). Abby already had the muscle mass when she was travelling America. If you're eating well(plenty of deer, rabbits on the road etc), and regularly doing things that stress the muscles(choking out zombies does a number on the biceps) then muscle does not waste away that easily. And, is there any reason Abby couldn't be an elite athlete during times of normality? Also you might complain about Abby having some extra steak, but, at the same time, you might not be the same level of Asset as Abby is for the WLF. Abby in response to her trauma has literally dedicated her body and mind to one day taking down one of the most dangerous men. It's asserted from the beginning that she is of greater competency than her fellow soldiers. I know if I were WLF leader I wouldn't have anything against giving her a few extra bits of steak if it means more dead scars. Explain that first point? I'm not sure what you're saying makes sense, and it's certainly not what I've heard from professional athletes and MMA fighters. Sure she could keep something resembling the same shape for a few months if she ate well and stayed active, as you say. But for a year? With none of the accommodations she theoretically had as a W.L.F asset, and a child to look after? No way. She would lose it little by little and at best return to something closer to Tommy's and Joel's farmer strength builds, assuming regular encounters with clickers and other survivors. But she doesn't. She's exactly as built after a year of roughing it with no resources and an extra mouth to feed as she was with the W.L.F supposedly sponsoring her diet and training to keep her in tip-top shape. And again it feels like you're trying to undermine the difference between 'an elite athlete' and 'world-class superstar Jiu-Jitsu fighter', which really isn't helping your case in my eyes. Sure Isaac might not begrudge her an extra steak, but it would absolutely cause extra tension between group members on scouting missions with limited rations to go around and tempers running hot. And my own impression of Abby is that she wouldn't want her friends to feel like she puts herself above them even in her desire for revenge. Just saying. And that she builds herself up like that specifically to battle Joel is your own conjecture. I agree that it's the most logical explanation, but there's still not a single line of dialogue in the game that supports it so far as I'm aware. She doesn't speak or act like someone truly laser-focused on revenge when she isn't actively hunting down Joel, either before or after, and she obviously maintains the build long after the deed is done, so I find the idea that she's warped herself so grotesquely for that reason alone a bit hard to swallow going by what we actually see of her. Getting in 'fight shape' usually necessitates losing no little weight and fighters will often cut up to an additional 20lbs of water weight prior to weigh ins. This. Fighters actually have to very careful about any weight they gain or lose. Someone like Holly Holm weighs in looking like death warmed up because she has to cut down from 150lbs to 135 for fight night. She is not going to put any extra weight on around the time of the fight because it's too risky and could cost her money if she's overweight. Anyway, I think you're greatly exaggerating resource scarcity. The lack of humans would brings tons of animals into areas that could be hunted for food. Abby is fantastically competent and would have no issue bringing in something tasty and nutritious to eat. Lev is also very competent so it's not like Abby has to play the role of Mary Poppins 24 hours a day. And, if you've ever been to a wrestling class you'd know that dealing with clickers and raiders hand to hand would put an immense strain on the body. It won't build muscle in the same way as a 8-10 rep gym session would, but maintaining? It would be perfect. Then there's all lifting heavy things and such that would keep the biceps toasty. Okay I'll make it easier. Is there any reason Abby couldn't be women's 135 champ if the thing existed and she applied herself to it? Maybe she is just that special? Who knows. What we do know is that women exist out there with physiques out there just as good, or better, while working under strict drug testing policies. The only proposed variable that differs a Holly Holm from an Abby it seems is food, and I really don't think that's accurate. The WLF and the SCARs run far more efficient organisations than anything seen in the first game where that scene you refer to occurs. In the game we fight giant people swinging around hammers, and they must be getting the food from somewhere. Nobody in the WLF looks malnourished and no one complains. I can only conclude that food is not a scarce resource.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 16, 2020 17:46:13 GMT
In Combat Sports, it's much more common to cut or maintain weight before a fight than to put weight on.
Binge eating in the days before a fight is definitely not a thing when you have a weigh-in coming.
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 17, 2020 2:16:43 GMT
This. Fighters actually have to very careful about any weight they gain or lose. Someone like Holly Holm weighs in looking like death warmed up because she has to cut down from 150lbs to 135 for fight night. She is not going to put any extra weight on around the time of the fight because it's too risky and could cost her money if she's overweight. Anyway, I think you're greatly exaggerating resource scarcity. The lack of humans would brings tons of animals into areas that could be hunted for food. Abby is fantastically competent and would have no issue bringing in something tasty and nutritious to eat. Lev is also very competent so it's not like Abby has to play the role of Mary Poppins 24 hours a day. And, if you've ever been to a wrestling class you'd know that dealing with clickers and raiders hand to hand would put an immense strain on the body. It won't build muscle in the same way as a 8-10 rep gym session would, but maintaining? It would be perfect. Then there's all lifting heavy things and such that would keep the biceps toasty. Okay I'll make it easier. Is there any reason Abby couldn't be women's 135 champ if the thing existed and she applied herself to it? Maybe she is just that special? Who knows. What we do know is that women exist out there with physiques out there just as good, or better, while working under strict drug testing policies. The only proposed variable that differs a Holly Holm from an Abby it seems is food, and I really don't think that's accurate. The WLF and the SCARs run far more efficient organisations than anything seen in the first game where that scene you refer to occurs. In the game we fight giant people swinging around hammers, and they must be getting the food from somewhere. Nobody in the WLF looks malnourished and no one complains. I can only conclude that food is not a scarce resource. Fair enough, in regards to pre-fight preparations. Looks like I had bad info. Sorry. You're trying to make it sound hilariously easy to live off the land, though. And again, you're conjecturing. How do you know that Abby is a fantastic hunter? How do you know that the W.L.F and Scars are so much more efficient than the actual US military running the QZ? How do you know that she and Lev have regular fights during the timeskip to keep the former in the exact same shape? You don't. You don't see enough of either the W.L.F or the Scars to say that, both are even more likely than the the QZs to be prioritizing fighters and leadership for food. And Joel/Ellie and Dina/Ellie both travel for months in the respective games without significant clashes. 'She can just choke clickers to keep up her gains' isn't a reasonable training regime. The difference between Abby and Holly Holm is resources and, you know, time. One of them has the luxury of being able to build her day around optimizing her gains. One of them kind of doesn't.
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Post by river82 on Aug 17, 2020 2:37:49 GMT
Weigh in usually happens a day or so before the actual fight, so what actually happens is regulated cheating. Fighters will cut weight precisely and enter the room on weigh in day pretty much spot on. Afterwards they'll rehydrate and feed and bulk up so on the actual day of the fight they will be MUCH heavier.
Japan learned that quickly. Japanese boxers used to enter weigh in day at their walking around weight, which is hilariously newbie of them. They then entered the fight the next day against an opponent ten to twenty pounds heavier than them
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 19, 2020 9:00:43 GMT
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 22, 2020 19:26:59 GMT
You want controversy over Last of Us Part 2? I'll give you controversy over Last of Us Part 2: It's one of only three games I've ever platinum'd, and the bastards just added two achievements and took away my 100%!
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 23, 2020 14:08:44 GMT
I decided to do one more playthrough to see if I want to bother upping the difficulty or trying speedrunning or anything like that. I had some questions about the game and figured I'd do what I always do, ask in the subreddit for the game.
Which was a huge mistake. The first thing I realized immediately was that this place has extremely measured and calm arguments about the game when compared to elsewhere. I've actually never seen a subreddit dedicated to trashing a game before, and it was definitely weird. It should have been a warning sign that it was not a place to ask honest questions about the game, but I did want to at least try. Sure enough, even asking about something as apolitical as the map function resulted in angry complaints.
I hope I never hate something so much that I spend my free time spinning in a fit of rage on a social media platform doing nothing but spewing vitriol. Even if whatever it would be deserved the hate, it seems like a miserable existence.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Aug 26, 2020 12:58:03 GMT
Okay, so if you've heard that you don't have to kill Bear the dog, I'm here to tell you that you might want to ignore that advice.
It actually works great strategically. Killing Bear's handler causes him to wander a small area around the corpse outside the hospital, taking him out of the equation and making it much easier to stealth through.
However, he spends the whole time whimpering and crying, and you can hear it constantly throughout the level. It's pretty heatbreaking.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 28, 2020 9:16:04 GMT
ND should not have shown Joel in scenes that he ended up not actually being in for the trailers, essentially punking people into believing his role was going to be bigger than it was. Movies might get away with little vignette-type scenes that don’t actually exist in the film (Pixar films have done this), but I just don’t see this tactic ever working out for a game these days. And that is why TLOU franchise is suffering, because of Druckmann's poor narrative decisions. But the one thing I don't understand is why does he want people to hate the game, by killing off Joel in the most despicable way and not allowing gamers to kill the antagonist for killing a beloved character. And he was upset at gamers for hating that sequel for that very reason, and he called them haters for not seeing his "artistic vision" of the game. Obviously, this guy has a ego problem and he's very sensitive to criticism. If he can't listen to criticism or don't learn from his mistakes, then he should never been a writer/creative director of ND in the first place. Let alone being a vice president of the company.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 28, 2020 10:29:27 GMT
ND should not have shown Joel in scenes that he ended up not actually being in for the trailers, essentially punking people into believing his role was going to be bigger than it was. Movies might get away with little vignette-type scenes that don’t actually exist in the film (Pixar films have done this), but I just don’t see this tactic ever working out for a game these days. Well this vid sums up most of it. I I pretty much agree everything he says.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 28, 2020 13:34:44 GMT
ND should not have shown Joel in scenes that he ended up not actually being in for the trailers, essentially punking people into believing his role was going to be bigger than it was. Movies might get away with little vignette-type scenes that don’t actually exist in the film (Pixar films have done this), but I just don’t see this tactic ever working out for a game these days. And that is why TLOU franchise is suffering, because of Druckmann's poor narrative decisions. But the one thing I don't understand is why does he want people to hate the game, by killing off Joel in the most despicable way and not allowing gamers to kill the antagonist for killing a beloved character. And he was upset at gamers for hating that sequel for that very reason, and he called them haters for not seeing his "artistic vision" of the game. Obviously, this guy has a ego problem and he's very sensitive to criticism. If he can't listen to criticism or don't learn from his mistakes, then he should never been a writer/creative director of ND in the first place. Let alone being a vice president of the company. I never understood the mentality that Neil Druckmann had with The Last of Us Part 2. He talked constantly about how he was expecting people to hate the game, but when people did hate it he took it personally and seemed to be confused to why people hated his masterpiece. He didn't do the game any favors with how he acted if anything it made the problems of the game worse. From the massive DMCA takedown rampage which caused people to boycott talking about the game, then questioning reviewers to why they were negative about the game, and then followed by what seems to be grouping everyone who disliked the game into some kind of bigot category. The one thing I will remember from all of the issues around The Last of Us Part 2 is how inconsistent coverage of games and their issues are.
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