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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 28, 2020 0:36:30 GMT
I think her forgiving Abby was Ellie accepting what Abby had done to Joel. Remember, that Ellie wouldn't forgive Joel for sparing her life in the hospital. She says like her life would've meant something, even Abby says something similar to her father if she was immune. I don't blame Abby at all for killing Joel giving that the doctor was her father who Joel kills to free Ellie. It's the same raw emotion that Joel felt at the end of TLOU1 expect we see it through Abby's eyes. At the end of the day Abby and Ellie I think learn compassion/forgiveness. Goodie for them. They should have learned that before murdering hundreds on their quest. Also still has nothing to do with my post, though if we must connect it at least John kept giving the option to either avoid conflict or at least minimize casualties, both before and after the fights, something Ellie never does. Okay we murder hundreds in every other shooter game, why is this different? For what it's worth, it's not like the WLF, that religious cult and that 3rd faction were good innocent people.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 28, 2020 0:42:56 GMT
Goodie for them. They should have learned that before murdering hundreds on their quest. Also still has nothing to do with my post, though if we must connect it at least John kept giving the option to either avoid conflict or at least minimize casualties, both before and after the fights, something Ellie never does. Okay we murder hundreds in every other shooter game, why is this different? For what it's worth, it's not like the WLF, that religious cult and that 3rd faction were good innocent people. Well for starters, in most shooter games our character isn't the one picking the fight. I don't play that many shooters, but the ones I have like Halo and Mass Effect have the characters acting in defense, either of themselves and/or others. Ellie meanwhile is the aggressor in this situation, since the other side spared her.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 28, 2020 1:36:38 GMT
Abby and crew only killed Joel in retaliation for his hospital chimpout while Ellie went on to slaughter a small army's worth of people with half of them hailing from factions that are not even connected to Joel's assassination. Joel in TLOU1 was hinted at doing some very fucked up stuff for survival beforehand but Ellie probably surpassed him after this game. My one issue with the ending is that it was impractical for Ellie to spare Abby and Lev after she killed Owen and Mel because she barely held her own against an emaciated Abby. There's no telling how many scoops a super vengeful Abby will take this time around or the devastation she'll wreak on Jackson's residents if she decides to dual wield two golf clubs against them.
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 28, 2020 5:07:58 GMT
I think her forgiving Abby was Ellie accepting what Abby had done to Joel. Remember, that Ellie wouldn't forgive Joel for sparing her life in the hospital. She says like her life would've meant something, even Abby says something similar to her father if she was immune. I don't blame Abby at all for killing Joel giving that the doctor was her father who Joel kills to free Ellie. It's the same raw emotion that Joel felt at the end of TLOU1 expect we see it through Abby's eyes. At the end of the day Abby and Ellie I think learn compassion/forgiveness. Goodie for them. They should have learned that before murdering hundreds on their quest. Also still has nothing to do with my post, though if we must connect it at least John kept giving the option to either avoid conflict or at least minimize casualties, both before and after the fights, something Ellie never does. Actually, Ellie does repeatedly offer people an out. "Where's Abby?" and "I only want Abby" were said repeatedly. Sadly, no one took her up on it. I'm not saying that any of her actions were right. The whole story is a series of terrible choices and looping violence. I'm just pointing out that she did, in fact, repeatedly offer quarter. Predictably (and wisely), Mel seemed inclined to accept the offer. Unfortunately, Ellie's carelessness made it impossible for Owen to resist making a play for the gun. That was sad. He was worn out and desperate for peace years before the story started. I wish they could've survived. I liked most of the characters well enough the first time through, and my opinions aren't changing dramatically in my NG+. I like Owen even more on this second PT. He had intelligence and depth even in his younger days, hidden under the young douche facade. Mel I don't love, nor do I dislike her. She has her cool moments in the party. She's great with Alice. She has a bitterness and obnoxiousness that comes from knowing that she will always be the side chick that got pregnant. Her self-righteousness is also off-putting. She was all for executing Ellie and Tommy. "No loose ends," she said. Owen and Abby stopped that. The same Abby that Mel now holds in disdain. I think Mel seems less traumatized by what happened in Jackson and more annoyed by how it made Owen more distant. Add some side chick jealousy, and there's Mel. Nora is probably cool. She's smart and loyal. That said, she seems totally fine with the way they killed Joel, and that's disturbing. I feel no real emotions for her. Even the way she dies is more horrifying in general than in any, "Oh, poor Nora" type of way. She chose to roll the dice with Ellie repeatedly and lost. Maybe she'd have chosen otherwise if she had known what would happen. I've already said that Manny seems like a cool friend, if slightly lacking in empathy outside his circle. Jordan is a crappy human and Leah is his girlfriend. Meh. All of Ellie's friends are cool. Imagining a different set of circumstances in which Abby and her crew were part of Jackson's community is sad. They could've been great in so many ways and happy there, I think. I'm still cruising along in my NG+. I played a couple of hours today, and am in Abby's Seattle Day 2. Abby fell from the scars' skybridge and now has to pass through the hotel of horrors neighboring the hospital. I saved in the stairwell with Lev needing a mask to advance. Crazy stuff ahead. Abby probably encounters the worst stuff from either game in the next two hours. That would seriously mess up a fair number of people, I imagine.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 28, 2020 6:00:21 GMT
I have a suspicion that the tweeter never watched Schindler's List and only mentioned the film due to it's prestige. Wouldn't Full Metal Jacket or Boys in the Hood be better comparisons than Schindler's List? This reminds me of the same talking points that were used to promote Spec Ops: The Line. Honestly John Wick 2 is a better comparison to The Last of Us Part 2 and I think it does the cycle of violence story better. If that fan theory is correct about there being five movies each representing a stage of grief that makes sense since that movie would be Anger. As a side note, I actually hope that fan theory is correct. So far it fits really well.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 28, 2020 6:03:11 GMT
Goodie for them. They should have learned that before murdering hundreds on their quest. Also still has nothing to do with my post, though if we must connect it at least John kept giving the option to either avoid conflict or at least minimize casualties, both before and after the fights, something Ellie never does. Okay we murder hundreds in every other shooter game, why is this different? For what it's worth, it's not like the WLF, that religious cult and that 3rd faction were good innocent people. Its because the killing of hundreds of people in The Last of Us Part 2 is conflicting with what the story writers are trying to tell us versus just having to mow down other people to meet my objective.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 28, 2020 7:57:12 GMT
Okay we murder hundreds in every other shooter game, why is this different? For what it's worth, it's not like the WLF, that religious cult and that 3rd faction were good innocent people. Its because the killing of hundreds of people in The Last of Us Part 2 is conflicting with what the story writers are trying to tell us versus just having to mow down other people to meet my objective.
Yeah, I love the idea of a game trying to push a narrative that focuses on the perils of the cycle of violence, while making combat fluid and fun. Like, hah, nice try game. Killing people in games is fun and no amount of gruesomely detailed death throes or weepy regret from the PC is gonna change any of that, especially when most if not all of them are just going to give me a game over screen if I don't kill them anyway.
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Post by OdanUrr on Jun 28, 2020 8:17:38 GMT
There's also the matter of denying the player the revenge they've been seeking throughout the game. Yes, the game may be trying to say "revenge is bad, hate is bad, etc." (what is somewhat questionable given the 'fun' gameplay element is murdering your way through hundreds of people) but if, at the end of the game, the player wants to kill Abby and Ellie decides to spare her out of the blue, there is a disconnect between player and character and that is not what you want ideally. It would have been much better to leave it open as a choice but then you'd have to handle the different endings with enough skill that it doesn't come across as if you're moralising people. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Abby get away with her revenge in the end?
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 28, 2020 14:19:01 GMT
Its because the killing of hundreds of people in The Last of Us Part 2 is conflicting with what the story writers are trying to tell us versus just having to mow down other people to meet my objective.
Yeah, I love the idea of a game trying to push a narrative that focuses on the perils of the cycle of violence, while making combat fluid and fun. Like, hah, nice try game. Killing people in games is fun and no amount of gruesomely detailed death throes or weepy regret from the PC is gonna change any of that, especially when most if not all of them are just going to give me a game over screen if I don't kill them anyway. I wouldn't at all say that they have made it fun. Is the gameplay fluid? Yeah. Why wouldn't it be? Making it clunky would contribute nothing positive, while fluidity adds more perceived realism. Killing in this game, rather than being fun, is exhausting. In most games, we have hundreds of mooks. In this game, even those mooks have names and friends who use those names. All NPCs participate in banter and conversation if given a chance. A bunch of little things add up to make the deaths feel heavy, rather than inconsequential. Your gameplay experience might vary, but it worked as intended for me. There's also the matter of denying the player the revenge they've been seeking throughout the game. Yes, the game may be trying to say "revenge is bad, hate is bad, etc." (what is somewhat questionable given the 'fun' gameplay element is murdering your way through hundreds of people) but if, at the end of the game, the player wants to kill Abby and Ellie decides to spare her out of the blue, there is a disconnect between player and character and that is not what you want ideally. It would have been much better to leave it open as a choice but then you'd have to handle the different endings with enough skill that it doesn't come across as if you're moralising people. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Abby get away with her revenge in the end? I don't think many players walk into these games expecting choice. Everyone should know that ND games are cinematic stories firmly on rails. I wonder how many people who have played the game still want Abby dead by the end? Most with whom I've discussed it are hoping the opposite. They're wanting Ellie to let it go. The decision to spare Abby definitely wasn't out of the blue. This wasn't even the first time one of these women had spared the other. (Third, I think?) Abby was in a pitiable state, and was Lev's only hope at survival. Ellie was trying to hard to hold onto the hate in that scene, but she finally ran out of gas. Again, others' experiences will vary, but this scene worked as intended for me. I was relieved to see both walk away with what little they each had left. I'd not say Abby got away with it. Maybe if the resulting deaths of her 7 close friends don't bother her. The experience I had suggests exactly the opposite. She's crushed and trying to make things better. Hell, she was already sleepless, fighting depression and trying to "balance the sheet" before any bad consequences arrived. Doing what she did to Joel was crazy, and she was suffering for it. So, again, she did not "get away with it" in my mind. I felt relief, not frustration, that Ellie finally stopped trying to kill her.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 28, 2020 16:00:31 GMT
Not having played the game and reading about it solely due to controversy, I could think of at least a couple of good reasons why Ellie didn't kill Abby in the end. The main one would be that being so close to getting her revenge, she might have realised that it won't change anything. She can't get back what she lost, she's running out of people to kill and still doesn't feel any better for it, so she stops and grieves thus ending the revenge cycle (TM).
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 28, 2020 17:53:20 GMT
I think it's still up to Abby to stop the cycle because she still has the potential to turn around and seek vengeance on Ellie by taking it out on Jackson's residents. Plus Ellie killed so many people she probably created multiple cycles of vengeance that will bite her on the ass later.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 28, 2020 19:08:09 GMT
I think it's still up to Abby to stop the cycle because she still has the potential to turn around and seek vengeance on Ellie by taking it out on Jackson's residents. Plus Ellie killed so many people she probably created multiple cycles of vengeance that will bite her on the ass later. Sure that's always a possibility with Ellie, but we have to remind ourselves that this is a video game. Not every human enemy NPC was created with story in mind. Some were just there to create interesting encounters or challenging enemies.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 28, 2020 20:33:36 GMT
I think it's still up to Abby to stop the cycle because she still has the potential to turn around and seek vengeance on Ellie by taking it out on Jackson's residents. Plus Ellie killed so many people she probably created multiple cycles of vengeance that will bite her on the ass later. Sure that's always a possibility with Ellie, but we have to remind ourselves that this is a video game. Not every human enemy NPC was created with story in mind. Some were just there to create interesting encounters or challenging enemies. Mind you TLOU is a lucrative ip, and there's still the potential for stories involving the fallout from Ellie's campaign against Abby without directly involving any of those two characters.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 28, 2020 20:41:17 GMT
Time to enjoy Abby's arc again. On Abby's story now (also NG+). Just Ellie's story, it was tough to see Alice being skewered, but she really didn't give Ellie any choice (nor did Owen or Mel tragically). Can't think when I last played a game that was so easy to slide into an immediate second playthrough.
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 28, 2020 21:46:15 GMT
Time to enjoy Abby's arc again. On Abby's story now (also NG+). Just Ellie's story, it was tough to see Alice being skewered, but she really didn't give Ellie any choice (nor did Owen or Mel tragically). Can't think when I last played a game that was so easy to slide into an immediate second playthrough. Yeah, poor Alice. 😔 We run into Bear several times, too. I'm pretty sure he killed Ellie at least once during my first PT, and she definitely killed him. I saved today in the Trauma Center of the hospital, just before Abby turns on the power. That place is nasty. I have nearly nabbed the platinum trophy, now. I found the journal entry, 2 collector's cards and the 1 coin I had missed during my first PT. I am missing a single artifact or journal entry, and I bet it will be found in The Resort. (I'll check the Chapter menu periodically as I go.) I was under pressure to rush through that area and probably missed something. I knew I was nearly at the end, at the time, but didn't realize I was minutes away. I logged in and walked to the pillars the next morning.
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Post by river82 on Jun 28, 2020 22:12:01 GMT
So no, Ellie can’t change. She can’t change because AAA games can’t change. Let’s say Ellie learns her lesson, that violence begets violence. That to save the world and herself, she must put down the gun. What would she even do? Literally, what would a AAA game even allow for her to do? AAA game design is built and marketed around killing. So I suppose Ellie would shift from killing humans to something more morally simple, like the zombie-like baddies that lurch about her world, which while less morally mucky, is no less predictable.
Thirteen years ago, critics and designers imagined games would no longer have ludonarrative dissonance, that the stories video games want to tell would align with the actions they demand we commit. But if this is the result, then you know what, I’m cool with dissonance. I’ll take violent games that strive for fun and don’t pitch any greater meaning, rather than violent games that seek to justify their violence. I don’t need more stories asking me why I love to kill things in video games, because the answer is simple: It’s what publishers sell me. What I want most, and what The Last of Us Part 2 attempts to be in brief moments, are games without violence. Do the creators truly believe their story captures how people would behave, that we’re all a catastrophe away from forming tribal murder squads? Or do we keep getting stories like this because it’s what the video games, as we understand them, allow? Until we have an abundance of AAA games that don’t hinge on violence, we can’t know for certain.
The Last of Us Part 2 suggests violence is inevitable. Sadly, that appears to be true in AAA video games.www.polygon.com/2020/6/26/21304642/the-last-of-us-2-violence
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 28, 2020 22:43:41 GMT
I love that this is a thing now.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jun 28, 2020 23:13:46 GMT
So no, Ellie can’t change. She can’t change because AAA games can’t change. Let’s say Ellie learns her lesson, that violence begets violence. That to save the world and herself, she must put down the gun. What would she even do? Literally, what would a AAA game even allow for her to do? AAA game design is built and marketed around killing. So I suppose Ellie would shift from killing humans to something more morally simple, like the zombie-like baddies that lurch about her world, which while less morally mucky, is no less predictable.
Thirteen years ago, critics and designers imagined games would no longer have ludonarrative dissonance, that the stories video games want to tell would align with the actions they demand we commit. But if this is the result, then you know what, I’m cool with dissonance. I’ll take violent games that strive for fun and don’t pitch any greater meaning, rather than violent games that seek to justify their violence. I don’t need more stories asking me why I love to kill things in video games, because the answer is simple: It’s what publishers sell me. What I want most, and what The Last of Us Part 2 attempts to be in brief moments, are games without violence. Do the creators truly believe their story captures how people would behave, that we’re all a catastrophe away from forming tribal murder squads? Or do we keep getting stories like this because it’s what the video games, as we understand them, allow? Until we have an abundance of AAA games that don’t hinge on violence, we can’t know for certain.
The Last of Us Part 2 suggests violence is inevitable. Sadly, that appears to be true in AAA video games.www.polygon.com/2020/6/26/21304642/the-last-of-us-2-violence With this logic, Hollywood hasn't changed either they use violence to tell stories.
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 28, 2020 23:59:15 GMT
So no, Ellie can’t change. She can’t change because AAA games can’t change. Let’s say Ellie learns her lesson, that violence begets violence. That to save the world and herself, she must put down the gun. What would she even do? Literally, what would a AAA game even allow for her to do? AAA game design is built and marketed around killing. So I suppose Ellie would shift from killing humans to something more morally simple, like the zombie-like baddies that lurch about her world, which while less morally mucky, is no less predictable.
Thirteen years ago, critics and designers imagined games would no longer have ludonarrative dissonance, that the stories video games want to tell would align with the actions they demand we commit. But if this is the result, then you know what, I’m cool with dissonance. I’ll take violent games that strive for fun and don’t pitch any greater meaning, rather than violent games that seek to justify their violence. I don’t need more stories asking me why I love to kill things in video games, because the answer is simple: It’s what publishers sell me. What I want most, and what The Last of Us Part 2 attempts to be in brief moments, are games without violence. Do the creators truly believe their story captures how people would behave, that we’re all a catastrophe away from forming tribal murder squads? Or do we keep getting stories like this because it’s what the video games, as we understand them, allow? Until we have an abundance of AAA games that don’t hinge on violence, we can’t know for certain.
The Last of Us Part 2 suggests violence is inevitable. Sadly, that appears to be true in AAA video games.www.polygon.com/2020/6/26/21304642/the-last-of-us-2-violence *hums Deus Ex theme* All that's needed is a second button for a non-lethal take-down instead of a kill. Deus Ex gives you the Pacifist achievement for never killing anyone, and in the Dishonored series your ratio of non-lethal vs. lethal takedowns directly influences the ending. AAA gaming can avoid killing if it wants to. Ellie can't change because it's a story completely on rails that can only ever go exactly as the writers wanted to (so there's no reason ever for the player to feel bad about it since no choices are involved) and the gameplay does not allow for anything else.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 29, 2020 0:25:52 GMT
So no, Ellie can’t change. She can’t change because AAA games can’t change. Let’s say Ellie learns her lesson, that violence begets violence. That to save the world and herself, she must put down the gun. What would she even do? Literally, what would a AAA game even allow for her to do? AAA game design is built and marketed around killing. So I suppose Ellie would shift from killing humans to something more morally simple, like the zombie-like baddies that lurch about her world, which while less morally mucky, is no less predictable.
Thirteen years ago, critics and designers imagined games would no longer have ludonarrative dissonance, that the stories video games want to tell would align with the actions they demand we commit. But if this is the result, then you know what, I’m cool with dissonance. I’ll take violent games that strive for fun and don’t pitch any greater meaning, rather than violent games that seek to justify their violence. I don’t need more stories asking me why I love to kill things in video games, because the answer is simple: It’s what publishers sell me. What I want most, and what The Last of Us Part 2 attempts to be in brief moments, are games without violence. Do the creators truly believe their story captures how people would behave, that we’re all a catastrophe away from forming tribal murder squads? Or do we keep getting stories like this because it’s what the video games, as we understand them, allow? Until we have an abundance of AAA games that don’t hinge on violence, we can’t know for certain.
The Last of Us Part 2 suggests violence is inevitable. Sadly, that appears to be true in AAA video games.www.polygon.com/2020/6/26/21304642/the-last-of-us-2-violence *hums Deus Ex theme* All that's needed is a second button for a non-lethal take-down instead of a kill. Deus Ex gives you the Pacifist achievement for never killing anyone, and in the Dishonored series your ratio of non-lethal vs. lethal takedowns directly influences the ending. AAA gaming can avoid killing if it wants to. Ellie can't change because it's a story completely on rails that can only ever go exactly as the writers wanted to (so there's no reason ever for the player to feel bad about it since no choices are involved) and the gameplay does not allow for anything else. They do have great themes.
Cyberpunk 2077 is doing something similar, where you can complete the game without killing a single person. I hope more and more games bring this kind of choice into their games.
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Post by river82 on Jun 29, 2020 1:33:33 GMT
So no, Ellie can’t change. She can’t change because AAA games can’t change. Let’s say Ellie learns her lesson, that violence begets violence. That to save the world and herself, she must put down the gun. What would she even do? Literally, what would a AAA game even allow for her to do? AAA game design is built and marketed around killing. So I suppose Ellie would shift from killing humans to something more morally simple, like the zombie-like baddies that lurch about her world, which while less morally mucky, is no less predictable.
Thirteen years ago, critics and designers imagined games would no longer have ludonarrative dissonance, that the stories video games want to tell would align with the actions they demand we commit. But if this is the result, then you know what, I’m cool with dissonance. I’ll take violent games that strive for fun and don’t pitch any greater meaning, rather than violent games that seek to justify their violence. I don’t need more stories asking me why I love to kill things in video games, because the answer is simple: It’s what publishers sell me. What I want most, and what The Last of Us Part 2 attempts to be in brief moments, are games without violence. Do the creators truly believe their story captures how people would behave, that we’re all a catastrophe away from forming tribal murder squads? Or do we keep getting stories like this because it’s what the video games, as we understand them, allow? Until we have an abundance of AAA games that don’t hinge on violence, we can’t know for certain.
The Last of Us Part 2 suggests violence is inevitable. Sadly, that appears to be true in AAA video games.www.polygon.com/2020/6/26/21304642/the-last-of-us-2-violence *hums Deus Ex theme* All that's needed is a second button for a non-lethal take-down instead of a kill. Deus Ex gives you the Pacifist achievement for never killing anyone, and in the Dishonored series your ratio of non-lethal vs. lethal takedowns directly influences the ending. AAA gaming can avoid killing if it wants to. Ellie can't change because it's a story completely on rails that can only ever go exactly as the writers wanted to (so there's no reason ever for the player to feel bad about it since no choices are involved) and the gameplay does not allow for anything else.
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3,997
Blast Processor
"Why are you telling me this? I can read and draw my own conclusions." - Roach
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August 2016
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Post by Blast Processor on Jun 29, 2020 16:02:57 GMT
Okay we murder hundreds in every other shooter game, why is this different? For what it's worth, it's not like the WLF, that religious cult and that 3rd faction were good innocent people. Its because the killing of hundreds of people in The Last of Us Part 2 is conflicting with what the story writers are trying to tell us versus just having to mow down other people to meet my objective. Reminds me of Jim Sterling's review. He mentioned that he felt nothing over killing that dog you are supposed to feel bad about killing, because the game has at that point conditioned the player the see dogs as a very real threat to there life.
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Glorious Star Lord
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 29, 2020 16:04:02 GMT
So no, Ellie can’t change. She can’t change because AAA games can’t change. Let’s say Ellie learns her lesson, that violence begets violence. That to save the world and herself, she must put down the gun. What would she even do? Literally, what would a AAA game even allow for her to do? AAA game design is built and marketed around killing. So I suppose Ellie would shift from killing humans to something more morally simple, like the zombie-like baddies that lurch about her world, which while less morally mucky, is no less predictable.
Thirteen years ago, critics and designers imagined games would no longer have ludonarrative dissonance, that the stories video games want to tell would align with the actions they demand we commit. But if this is the result, then you know what, I’m cool with dissonance. I’ll take violent games that strive for fun and don’t pitch any greater meaning, rather than violent games that seek to justify their violence. I don’t need more stories asking me why I love to kill things in video games, because the answer is simple: It’s what publishers sell me. What I want most, and what The Last of Us Part 2 attempts to be in brief moments, are games without violence. Do the creators truly believe their story captures how people would behave, that we’re all a catastrophe away from forming tribal murder squads? Or do we keep getting stories like this because it’s what the video games, as we understand them, allow? Until we have an abundance of AAA games that don’t hinge on violence, we can’t know for certain.
The Last of Us Part 2 suggests violence is inevitable. Sadly, that appears to be true in AAA video games.www.polygon.com/2020/6/26/21304642/the-last-of-us-2-violence With this logic, Hollywood hasn't changed either they use violence to tell stories. Sure, but to various degrees with varying themes. The problem with this comparison is that movies just don’t function like a game does. A film has a better chance of successfully selling the idea of the perils of violence or warfare or how people will react to any given calamity, because that film can function with as much or as little actual violence as the filmmakers see fit. Like, a movie about the post-apocalypse might have huge swaths of runtime without anyone killing anyone else, and deal with all the other human dramas that might occur in a crisis, whereas a game’s developer might not feel that they have that luxury, and the game revolves squarely around its combat. Dealing death is its entire reason for being, not the message it’s selling.
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Glorious Star Lord
822
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 29, 2020 16:08:52 GMT
Its because the killing of hundreds of people in The Last of Us Part 2 is conflicting with what the story writers are trying to tell us versus just having to mow down other people to meet my objective. Reminds me of Jim Sterling's review. He mentioned that he felt nothing over killing that dog you are supposed to feel bad about killing, because the game has at that point conditioned the player the see dogs as a very real threat to there life. Yeah, and even in real life. If I had to shoot a dog that tried to kill me, I wouldn’t feel bad about it, even if I knew it was someone else’s pet.
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SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,131
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 29, 2020 17:51:43 GMT
Yeah, and even in real life. If I had to shoot a dog that tried to kill me, I wouldn’t feel bad about it, even if I knew it was someone else’s pet. Feeling bad or not would appear to be a secondary concern to despatching the dog that is going for your throat... The same applies to dealing with Nora, Mel and Owen. All of whom are trying to kill you. Irrespective of whether you later conclude how regrettable that was.
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