Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,983 Likes: 3,500
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,500
Noxluxe
1,983
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Oct 15, 2020 2:15:19 GMT
I'm not really a fan of either. A country as huge as Tevinter turned into one big open world would be completely overkill, and I really don't see that that's what the Witcher 3 did. I'm curious to see the place, but I don't want either the developers or myself to have to waste time on the big and empty spaces between settlements and points of interests.
My preference would be for several (7 or 8) large maps similar in size to Inquisition's 'open world' ones, but much more densely packed with content, including at least one or two maps of that size that are entirely urban. Most of them probably in Tevinter, with a few specific locations beyond its borders such as parts of Seheron or Par Vollen if we must go there for the story.
Inquisition could have cut its number of locations in half and filled the remaining ones with content actually worth seeing, and expanded Val Royeaux to a respectable cityscape. If I had a choice, that's the main thing I would like them to have taken away from that game.
|
|
inherit
299
0
May 14, 2024 23:07:56 GMT
5,812
AlleluiaElizabeth
2,464
August 2016
alleluiaelizabeth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Oct 15, 2020 3:24:49 GMT
Camp a. for me, possibly with Minrathous being its own submap, rather than being in the main overworld, if that improves any technical issues enough to get us a fullblown city. I’m completely camp B. Having all of Tevinter be one map would make it seem so much smaller and less impressive than if they had multiple maps each focusing and expanding on a certain area. Besides, I doubt they’ll do one map anyway since I don’t think we’ll just be in Tevinter. Can you imagine Anderfels, Tevinter, Seheron, and Par Vollen (including the sea between) all on one map? It’d be terrible. Hmm, you do have a point about all of Tevinter being one map. Velen was fine, imo, but it also wasn't all of Velen. Hmm.
|
|
inherit
299
0
May 14, 2024 23:07:56 GMT
5,812
AlleluiaElizabeth
2,464
August 2016
alleluiaelizabeth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Oct 15, 2020 3:30:04 GMT
Heh. Imagine the poor bastards on the other side of the world who might not even realize what elves are, who have no idea that a bunch of weirdoes on some random continent have been poking and prodding at the foundations of reality for a thousand years, causing one near-world-ending disaster after another, are currently in the process of waking up primordial earth gods, and one of whom is about to globally turn the laws of nature inside out. Somewhere there's a pseudo-Asian people who have been celebrating being rid of those "Qunari" lunatics for 400 years, who are going to have one strange harvest season while we deal with Solas. I do hope we get some perspective on the Veil and how the raising of it was percieved and explained by people outside Thedas at some point. Maybe the Executors can share that. Or the Qunari? How'd everyone else explain how the Fade was suddenly only accessible via dreams? Do they remember their own ancient societies that were around at the time? Did those societies survive or experience some cataclysm that's become myth and legend, never to have an answer as to its cause cus it was the fault of some pointy eared mages four continents over that they'd never even heard of?
This is assuming the veil actually does encompass the entire world, of course. What if Thedas is in actually in a veil-wrapped, reality-splitting bubble but no one knows it cus there's so little travel?
These are my random midweek musings. lol
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Oct 15, 2020 4:00:38 GMT
Heh. Imagine the poor bastards on the other side of the world who might not even realize what elves are, who have no idea that a bunch of weirdoes on some random continent have been poking and prodding at the foundations of reality for a thousand years, causing one near-world-ending disaster after another, are currently in the process of waking up primordial earth gods, and one of whom is about to globally turn the laws of nature inside out. Somewhere there's a pseudo-Asian people who have been celebrating being rid of those "Qunari" lunatics for 400 years, who are going to have one strange harvest season while we deal with Solas. One day, we’ll sail to meet those savages, and they’ll be in for a surprise.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
May 15, 2024 13:35:42 GMT
31,332
colfoley
16,626
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Oct 15, 2020 4:09:17 GMT
Heh. Imagine the poor bastards on the other side of the world who might not even realize what elves are, who have no idea that a bunch of weirdoes on some random continent have been poking and prodding at the foundations of reality for a thousand years, causing one near-world-ending disaster after another, are currently in the process of waking up primordial earth gods, and one of whom is about to globally turn the laws of nature inside out. Somewhere there's a pseudo-Asian people who have been celebrating being rid of those "Qunari" lunatics for 400 years, who are going to have one strange harvest season while we deal with Solas. AKA the 'Thanos effect' . Though knowing BioWare's schtick when it comes to Thedas (the world) and since everything is crap they are probably doing their own world ending. (THough we also know the Executors, who are from across the sea, are at least aware of the situation).
|
|
Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,676 Likes: 6,658
Member is Online
inherit
Agent 46
177
0
Member is Online
May 15, 2024 14:49:41 GMT
6,658
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,676
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
|
Post by Gileadan on Oct 15, 2020 6:02:24 GMT
Heh. Imagine the poor bastards on the other side of the world who might not even realize what elves are, who have no idea that a bunch of weirdoes on some random continent have been poking and prodding at the foundations of reality for a thousand years, causing one near-world-ending disaster after another, are currently in the process of waking up primordial earth gods, and one of whom is about to globally turn the laws of nature inside out. Somewhere there's a pseudo-Asian people who have been celebrating being rid of those "Qunari" lunatics for 400 years, who are going to have one strange harvest season while we deal with Solas. There is a curse. They say "may you live in interesting times". Or maybe those other poor bastards have their own gods and devils that are constantly trying to bring about some apocalypse or other that we never knew about. As if all the world's gods and devils had divided the planet into clear spheres of influence, i.e. once you reach the other side of the world, whatever the darkspawn or Evanuris or Solas or Corypheus do doesn't concern you anymore, instead you have some high mountain peak with petulant godlings on it that bicker like a frigging soap opera and move mortal armies like chess pieces or some such. But only on that continent. None of those gods would have ever heard of Ferelden or Orlais. Like the titans never stepped out into daylight and the elven "gods" never poked their noses underground. Everyone just sticks to their own area.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11672
0
May 15, 2024 14:58:37 GMT
Deleted
0
May 15, 2024 14:58:37 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 8:34:54 GMT
Heh. Imagine the poor bastards on the other side of the world who might not even realize what elves are, who have no idea that a bunch of weirdoes on some random continent have been poking and prodding at the foundations of reality for a thousand years, causing one near-world-ending disaster after another, are currently in the process of waking up primordial earth gods, and one of whom is about to globally turn the laws of nature inside out. Somewhere there's a pseudo-Asian people who have been celebrating being rid of those "Qunari" lunatics for 400 years, who are going to have one strange harvest season while we deal with Solas. There is a curse. They say "may you live in interesting times". Or maybe those other poor bastards have their own gods and devils that are constantly trying to bring about some apocalypse or other that we never knew about. As if all the world's gods and devils had divided the planet into clear spheres of influence, i.e. once you reach the other side of the world, whatever the darkspawn or Evanuris or Solas or Corypheus do doesn't concern you anymore, instead you have some high mountain peak with petulant godlings on it that bicker like a frigging soap opera and move mortal armies like chess pieces or some such. But only on that continent. None of those gods would have ever heard of Ferelden or Orlais. Like the titans never stepped out into daylight and the elven "gods" never poked their noses underground. Everyone just sticks to their own area. Yes exactly. At risk of being labeled 'woke,' it feels very Eurocentric to assume that all of The Interesting Stuff happens in not!Europe and what we do in Thedas impacts the rest of the world's population without their sweet widdle heads even knowing it. It was the same in Middle Earth (at best, at worst the non-Europeans were all Sauron's slaves), similar in Forgotten Realms and Pathfinder, though at least those are starting to flesh out the other settings of their worlds.
I would very happily go to other lands once the Solas/Enuvaris/Veil thingummy is finished.True we haven't explored every nook and cranny in Thedas, but DAI ostensibly took place in Orlais and I don't feel much more knowledgeable about Orlesian culture than I did after finishing Mark of the Assassin. I still don't have a strong sense of identity or culture from any of the Free Marches, even Kirkwall. The game was more about mages and templars and refugees from the blight than actually depicting Kirkwall or the Free Marches as settings. Just because we will have a game set in Antiva or Nevarra doesn't guarantee we'll have as much in depth exposure to the culture as we did in DAO.
It would be refreshing to go to not!Persia or not!India or not!Ethiopia, settings that are rare in most fantasy media. Plus that would prevent further ghost!Leliana or Bring Back the Warden (Make the Warden Great Again?) discussions if we literally go to the opposite side of the world.
|
|
inherit
1853
0
May 27, 2023 15:25:28 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Oct 15, 2020 10:33:46 GMT
It would be refreshing to go to not!Persia or not!India or not!Ethiopia, settings that are rare in most fantasy media. Plus that would prevent further ghost!Leliana or Bring Back the Warden (Make the Warden Great Again?) discussions if we literally go to the opposite side of the world. if bioware feels bored with the thedas, notices that players are bored with Templar magesand demons, and wants to change the setting... so totally change the setting. Invent a new world, sparkling, brilliant, from scratch. With its rules, its features, its mysteries to discover with wonder. As andromeda has turned out to be a bad copy of the milky way, there is a very high probability that the new continent will turn out to be a kind of bad copy of the thedas. For exemple bethesda has been going on for 30 years and 10 games with Tamriel (even if it's not "the whole world"), and that setting has always been effective. The public still love Tamriel. At bethesda they are certainly not phenomenal writers but they always manage to find something new to include. (and personally I consider Tamriel a setting 10 times more silly and superficial and badly congenial than Thedas, with so much less potential)
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,983 Likes: 3,500
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,500
Noxluxe
1,983
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Oct 15, 2020 11:52:43 GMT
Yes exactly. At risk of being labeled 'woke,' it feels very Eurocentric to assume that all of The Interesting Stuff happens in not!Europe and what we do in Thedas impacts the rest of the world's population without their sweet widdle heads even knowing it. It was the same in Middle Earth (at best, at worst the non-Europeans were all Sauron's slaves), similar in Forgotten Realms and Pathfinder, though at least those are starting to flesh out the other settings of their worlds. I would very happily go to other lands once the Solas/Enuvaris/Veil thingummy is finished.True we haven't explored every nook and cranny in Thedas, but DAI ostensibly took place in Orlais and I don't feel much more knowledgeable about Orlesian culture than I did after finishing Mark of the Assassin. I still don't have a strong sense of identity or culture from any of the Free Marches, even Kirkwall. The game was more about mages and templars and refugees from the blight than actually depicting Kirkwall or the Free Marches as settings. Just because we will have a game set in Antiva or Nevarra doesn't guarantee we'll have as much in depth exposure to the culture as we did in DAO.
It would be refreshing to go to not!Persia or not!India or not!Ethiopia, settings that are rare in most fantasy media. Plus that would prevent further ghost!Leliana or Bring Back the Warden (Make the Warden Great Again?) discussions if we literally go to the opposite side of the world.
Woke bastard. And nah, not Eurocentrism, at least not in this instance. Just common sense. If things as intense as what Thedas is dealing with were occurring all over the world then that world's continued existence would just be implausible. Someone would have reduced it to atoms by now. Ergo, things are probably a lot more peaceful everywhere else, relatively speaking of course, and the ancient elves' various local shenanigans and their legacy are the fundamental reason why Thedas in particular is as unstable as it is. You certainly have a point about Middle-Earth, although, again, radically different species whose existences mean vastly different things populating certain regions really could mean very different tendencies towards conflict in one part of the world compared to another. Human kingdoms bordering the Elven ones and human kingdoms not doing so wouldn't necessarily work even remotely the same. I would argue that you not feeling properly introduced to Orlesian culture by a game ostensibly partially set in Orlais is a reason to slow down and dig deeper, not to speed up and find even more distant places with even less recognizable atmospheres to... not do justice. And it seems to be the same with gamers who want the next Witcher game to be set in Zerrakania. It's already pretty hit-and-miss with pseudoEuropean medievalish worlds created primarily by people who originate from medieval Europe. What exactly is it that makes anyone think that a high-fidelity, respectful, deep and engaging representation of the fantastical Middle-East is a particular likelihood of Dragon Age trying to go there now? Sounds to me like an argument for supporting Middle-Eastern and Indian game developers to eventually give them the opportunities to create those worlds with something resembling authentic cultural flair. Or, at the very least, the creation of new franchises that have non-Western fantasy settings as their actual focus by developers who are specifically interested in that, instead of being awkwardly tacked-unto existing European fantasy whether the creative backbone for it is there or not.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,095 Likes: 16,598
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,598
midnight tea
7,095
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Oct 15, 2020 12:29:54 GMT
Yes exactly. At risk of being labeled 'woke,' it feels very Eurocentric to assume that all of The Interesting Stuff happens in not!Europe and what we do in Thedas impacts the rest of the world's population without their sweet widdle heads even knowing it. It was the same in Middle Earth (at best, at worst the non-Europeans were all Sauron's slaves), similar in Forgotten Realms and Pathfinder, though at least those are starting to flesh out the other settings of their worlds. I would very happily go to other lands once the Solas/Enuvaris/Veil thingummy is finished.True we haven't explored every nook and cranny in Thedas, but DAI ostensibly took place in Orlais and I don't feel much more knowledgeable about Orlesian culture than I did after finishing Mark of the Assassin. I still don't have a strong sense of identity or culture from any of the Free Marches, even Kirkwall. The game was more about mages and templars and refugees from the blight than actually depicting Kirkwall or the Free Marches as settings. Just because we will have a game set in Antiva or Nevarra doesn't guarantee we'll have as much in depth exposure to the culture as we did in DAO.
It would be refreshing to go to not!Persia or not!India or not!Ethiopia, settings that are rare in most fantasy media. Plus that would prevent further ghost!Leliana or Bring Back the Warden (Make the Warden Great Again?) discussions if we literally go to the opposite side of the world.
Woke bastard. And nah, not Eurocentrism, at least not in this instance. Just common sense. If things as intense as what Thedas is dealing with were occurring all over the world then that world's continued existence would just be implausible. Someone would have reduced it to atoms by now. Ergo, things are probably a lot more peaceful everywhere else, relatively speaking of course, and the ancient elves' various local shenanigans and their legacy are the fundamental reason why Thedas in particular is as unstable as it is. Unless... it's like in Slayers and the Veil actually separates Thedas from the rest of the world, like some sort of invisible dome?
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,983 Likes: 3,500
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,500
Noxluxe
1,983
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Oct 15, 2020 13:49:13 GMT
Unless... it's like in Slayers and the Veil actually separates Thedas from the rest of the world, like some sort of invisible dome? The arrival of the Qunari thousands of years after the raising of the Veil is evidence that if so, then it's not just Thedas but a much larger radius. Which is also complicated by the idea that the hypothetical world outside that dome is partway Fade, meaning that "real" distance and relative space and existence don't necessarily mean what we think they do. And if that was the case then Solas' obvious move would also be to just lead the elven population of Thedas out of that dome to where their natural properties would hopefully reinstate themselves without having to disturb a hair on a single human head or dwarven beard, or free a single imprisoned Evanuris. At least, assuming that the border between would be passable, and that Solas would know about it in the first place based on whatever effect he originally set into motion. The effects of his spell - or whatever it was - could also span the entire planet, leaving a vast half-magical cosmos out there. It's certainly hard to imagine that he had the power to tear an entire universe in two, no matter how advanced his people's magic was. I suppose it's also a possibility that the border of this "dome" is both tighter and freely passable, that Solas is mistakenly under the impression that it's universal, and the Qunari deliberately sought refuge 'with us' to escape an imagination-powered reality of floating abstracts and arbitrary rules that their OCD couldn't handle. It would certainly explain their cultural hatred of all things magical.
|
|
Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,676 Likes: 6,658
Member is Online
inherit
Agent 46
177
0
Member is Online
May 15, 2024 14:49:41 GMT
6,658
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,676
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
|
Post by Gileadan on Oct 15, 2020 14:06:25 GMT
Or maybe Thedas isn't really a full planet, but a Westworld type amusement park and our party are the androids while Solas is a human player who bought the full pay to win package.
|
|
inherit
1853
0
May 27, 2023 15:25:28 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Oct 15, 2020 14:34:33 GMT
The effects of his spell - or whatever it was - could also span the entire planet, leaving a vast half-magical cosmos out there. It's certainly hard to imagine that he had the power to turn an entire universe in two, no matter how advanced his people's magic was. or maybe Thedas + Fade + "the sky" + the abyss/deep roads is a "self-contained plane of existence"... they are all that exists. The "universe". I have the theory that the world of dragon age is vaguely inspired to the medieval cosmogological model/conception... only it's not simply an allegory, it's really structured like that bsn.boards.net/thread/18514/theory-dragon-partially-inspired-dantes
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Member is Online
May 15, 2024 14:50:22 GMT
26,689
gervaise21
10,809
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 15, 2020 14:52:09 GMT
The effects of his spell - or whatever it was - could also span the entire planet, leaving a vast half-magical cosmos out there. It's certainly hard to imagine that he had the power to turn an entire universe in two, no matter how advanced his people's magic was. I honestly wonder if they thought of these problems when they came up with the "Solas created the Veil" idea. Was this always there from the beginning or is it something they introduced as they went along? You see how it was originally understood, namely there had always been a Waking World and a Dream World, separated by the Veil, would work anywhere you went. Different people might view the Fade in different ways, just as the current known races do but the mechanics still worked the same for everyone. I've always had a bit of a problem that Solas, with or without assistance, could perform such a reality altering feat but even more that people outside Thedas wouldn't have wondered what the hell was going on? When we experience the dark future in DAI, is that true of the entire world and not just Thedas? Then again, I was surprised to read that Ferelden is meant to be the size of England (according to DG on the old forums). That being the case, Thedas is in reality a lot smaller than I thought it to be. That does put the elven empire into perspective but also reinforces the idea that surely their magic didn't extend beyond the Thedas continent. Which makes me favour an idea previously put forward on the forums, that the Veil is the true reality and the ancient elven gods merely weakened it in their particularly part of the world so it was easier for spirits to pass through and for them to draw on the magic of the Fade but it was never entirely absent, despite what Solas claims and may even erroneously believe to be true.
|
|
inherit
1853
0
May 27, 2023 15:25:28 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Oct 15, 2020 15:12:38 GMT
I honestly wonder if they thought of these problems when they came up with the "Solas created the Veil" idea. Was this always there from the beginning or is it something they introduced as they went along? You see how it was originally understood, namely there had always been a Waking World and a Dream World, separated by the Veil, would work anywhere you went. Different people might view the Fade in different ways, just as the current known races do but the mechanics still worked the same for everyone. interesting. this would be an extremely refined solution, IMO. the Veil as a membrane between the physical world and the fade, a membrane which has always existed, which is part of "Reality" ... once this membrane was extremely permeable, there was flow, exchange, while solas made it virtually "impermeable". In this sense Solas didin't tecnically create the Veil, just "super strengthened" it. Nor he want to "destroy" the Veil, or tear it apart (a mega-breach) but simply make it... breathable, permeable again
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11672
0
May 15, 2024 14:58:37 GMT
Deleted
0
May 15, 2024 14:58:37 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 16:30:36 GMT
It would be refreshing to go to not!Persia or not!India or not!Ethiopia, settings that are rare in most fantasy media. Plus that would prevent further ghost!Leliana or Bring Back the Warden (Make the Warden Great Again?) discussions if we literally go to the opposite side of the world. if bioware feels bored with the thedas, notices that players are bored with Templar magesand demons, and wants to change the setting... so totally change the setting. Invent a new world, sparkling, brilliant, from scratch. With its rules, its features, its mysteries to discover with wonder. As andromeda has turned out to be a bad copy of the milky way, there is a very high probability that the new continent will turn out to be a kind of bad copy of the thedas. For exemple bethesda has been going on for 30 years and 10 games with Tamriel (even if it's not "the whole world"), and that setting has always been effective. The public still love Tamriel. At bethesda they are certainly not phenomenal writers but they always manage to find something new to include. (and personally I consider Tamriel a setting 10 times more silly and superficial and badly congenial than Thedas, with so much less potential) IMHO the difference between Dragon Age and Mass Effect is that the DA setting is a fantasy expy of Earth cultures. Ferelden is England, Orlais is France, etc. If countries were introduced based on Persian mythology, Indian, Chinese, etc. there is a wealth of existing source material to base it on.
ME had the uphill battle of both distancing itself from the Milky Way and trying to create a new galaxy. The vastness of the universe means there could be infinite types of lifeforms and technology that humans couldn't even imagine. We could have more non-humanoid aliens, species that aren't carbon based, beings of pure thought or energy. I think there was disappointment when MEA turned out to have two new species only, and their cultures weren't detailed nearly as much as all of the species we got in ME1.
I'm not saying Bioware is bored with Thedas, just that I would be happy to have a DA set elsewhere. As I've said, though, DA2 and DAI focused much less on the setting and lore and more on characters and plot, so I'm not confident that a game set in e.g. Antiva will go any deeper than a stereotype of Renaissance Spain/Italy. I think it took them much of the development time of DAO to create the lore for Ferelden. We had Ash Warriors, Avvar and Chasind, tales of Calenhad; a lot of lore which wasn't actually relevant to the game but fleshed out the world. Compare with DA2 and DAI which did not add much lore that wasn't directly related to the plot. A good percentage of codex entries in those games are borrowed from DAO. Bioware doesn't seem as interested in world building anymore but telling the story of Ancient Elves and the Veil.
(I'm not saying I dislike the focus on plot and characters, as I'm still very much enjoying them. Just noting that focus has shifted away from world building as much)
I've only played Oblivion so don't know the setting very well, but I was under the impression that lore is not the focus of Elder Scrolls game as much as the gameplay itself. We can play as an assassin and an archmage and a bounty hunter and a thief all in one game. People play the games for different reasons of course, but I didn't get involved in the lore and story in Oblivion nearly as much as I do in Bioware games.
Yes exactly. At risk of being labeled 'woke,' it feels very Eurocentric to assume that all of The Interesting Stuff happens in not!Europe and what we do in Thedas impacts the rest of the world's population without their sweet widdle heads even knowing it. It was the same in Middle Earth (at best, at worst the non-Europeans were all Sauron's slaves), similar in Forgotten Realms and Pathfinder, though at least those are starting to flesh out the other settings of their worlds. I would very happily go to other lands once the Solas/Enuvaris/Veil thingummy is finished.True we haven't explored every nook and cranny in Thedas, but DAI ostensibly took place in Orlais and I don't feel much more knowledgeable about Orlesian culture than I did after finishing Mark of the Assassin. I still don't have a strong sense of identity or culture from any of the Free Marches, even Kirkwall. The game was more about mages and templars and refugees from the blight than actually depicting Kirkwall or the Free Marches as settings. Just because we will have a game set in Antiva or Nevarra doesn't guarantee we'll have as much in depth exposure to the culture as we did in DAO.
It would be refreshing to go to not!Persia or not!India or not!Ethiopia, settings that are rare in most fantasy media. Plus that would prevent further ghost!Leliana or Bring Back the Warden (Make the Warden Great Again?) discussions if we literally go to the opposite side of the world.
Woke bastard. And nah, not Eurocentrism, at least not in this instance. Just common sense. If things as intense as what Thedas is dealing with were occurring all over the world then that world's continued existence would just be implausible. Someone would have reduced it to atoms by now. Ergo, things are probably a lot more peaceful everywhere else, relatively speaking of course, and the ancient elves' various local shenanigans and their legacy are the fundamental reason why Thedas in particular is as unstable as it is. You certainly have a point about Middle-Earth, although, again, radically different species whose existences mean vastly different things populating certain regions really could mean very different tendencies towards conflict in one part of the world compared to another. Human kingdoms bordering the Elven ones and human kingdoms not doing so wouldn't necessarily work even remotely the same. I would argue that you not feeling properly introduced to Orlesian culture by a game ostensibly partially set in Orlais is a reason to slow down and dig deeper, not to speed up and find even more distant places with even less recognizable atmospheres to... not do justice. And it seems to be the same with gamers who want the next Witcher game to be set in Zerrakania. It's already pretty hit-and-miss with pseudoEuropean medievalish worlds created primarily by people who originate from medieval Europe. What exactly is it that makes anyone think that a high-fidelity, respectful, deep and engaging representation of the fantastical Middle-East is a particular likelihood of Dragon Age trying to go there now? Sounds to me like an argument for supporting Middle-Eastern and Indian game developers to eventually give them the opportunities to create those worlds with something resembling authentic cultural flair. Or, at the very least, the creation of new franchises that have non-Western fantasy settings as their actual focus by developers who are specifically interested in that, instead of being awkwardly tacked-unto existing European fantasy whether the creative backbone for it is there or not. Meh, given all that has happened in known history of Thedas it's surprising the world is still around. That's before factoring in a GW who defeats a Blight in record time while being persecuted by the government, a refugee carrying nothing but the clothes on their back to a new city and possibly ending up the viscount, and a nobody who ends up becoming Andraste light, goes into the future, and prevents one of the original darkspawn from causing the apocalypse. In all probability Thedas should be rubble by now.
I don't see why there wouldn't be other heroes in other parts of the world who also stop catastrophes from destroying the planet.
See my response above as to my doubt that Bioware will go much deeper into the existing setting than what we've already been given. Perhaps they have 'not!France' in their heads whenever they think about Orlais so all we get in game are farcical nobles with horrible accents. I'm pessimistic that Tevinter will be purely an evil empire with vaguely-Latin names rather than having much actual source material taken from Rome and Byzantium.
Yes I would be happy to see more types of game developers create new settings and games. It doesn't have to be either/or though. I would imagine it would be difficult for indie companies to get as widespread advertising as a AAA studio so it's not realistic to put the entire burden of diversity onto small new developers. Of course, what's to say there aren't developers who aren't Canadian working at Bioware who would be interested in focusing on their background in their work?
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,886 Likes: 49,355
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,355
Iakus
20,886
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Oct 15, 2020 16:31:59 GMT
Heh. Imagine the poor bastards on the other side of the world who might not even realize what elves are, who have no idea that a bunch of weirdoes on some random continent have been poking and prodding at the foundations of reality for a thousand years, causing one near-world-ending disaster after another, are currently in the process of waking up primordial earth gods, and one of whom is about to globally turn the laws of nature inside out. Somewhere there's a pseudo-Asian people who have been celebrating being rid of those "Qunari" lunatics for 400 years, who are going to have one strange harvest season while we deal with Solas. Welcome to Mass Effect 3, Synthesis ending!
|
|
inherit
1853
0
May 27, 2023 15:25:28 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Oct 15, 2020 16:51:44 GMT
If countries were introduced based on Persian mythology, Indian, Chinese, etc. there is a wealth of existing source material to base it on. mmm places like Rivain and Seheron seems very "asiatic" or at least middle-eastern to me... india, indonesia... people with ebony skin, jungles, tattoes, cinnamon and nutmeg trees. And Par Vollen too. If Tevinter is byzantium, the qunari (sudden and almost unstoppable invasion/ extalted not!crusades marches/ multiple siege to minrathous etc) are heavily inspired by the arabs (with a pinch ofof communism). Qunandar, with its pyramids aqueducts and technological wonders... could be somthing like Babylon, or Alexandria of Egypt...
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,983 Likes: 3,500
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,500
Noxluxe
1,983
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Oct 15, 2020 20:09:51 GMT
Meh, given all that has happened in known history of Thedas it's surprising the world is still around. That's before factoring in a GW who defeats a Blight in record time while being persecuted by the government, a refugee carrying nothing but the clothes on their back to a new city and possibly ending up the viscount, and a nobody who ends up becoming Andraste light, goes into the future, and prevents one of the original darkspawn from causing the apocalypse. In all probability Thedas should be rubble by now. I don't see why there wouldn't be other heroes in other parts of the world who also stop catastrophes from destroying the planet. See my response above as to my doubt that Bioware will go much deeper into the existing setting than what we've already been given. Perhaps they have 'not!France' in their heads whenever they think about Orlais so all we get in game are farcical nobles with horrible accents. I'm pessimistic that Tevinter will be purely an evil empire with vaguely-Latin names rather than having much actual source material taken from Rome and Byzantium. Yes I would be happy to see more types of game developers create new settings and games. It doesn't have to be either/or though. I would imagine it would be difficult for indie companies to get as widespread advertising as a AAA studio so it's not realistic to put the entire burden of diversity onto small new developers. Of course, what's to say there aren't developers who aren't Canadian working at Bioware who would be interested in focusing on their background in their work?
I don't get your argument. Thedas' continued existence is implausible enough, so making things even more unbelievable by assuming that the whole world is in utter chaos and people just keep being in the right place at the right time to prevent ultimate catastrophe everywhere else too doesn't hurt? I feel like even if there was some likelihood that that's how the developers saw the world, which they certainly might, it's still a complete failure of logical thinking to assume so. I see what you mean, but refuse to accept that Bioware is suddenly incapable of fleshing out a culturally inspired setting if they try to do so instead of shoehorning it in. If that's the case then I would prefer it if they just stop making Dragon Age games altogether, instead of molesting the legacy of their own erstwhile successes with half-assed bullshit like Inquisition's exploration of Orlais. Let alone attempt to recreate mythical medieval Arabia to anyone's satisfaction off the coast of Thedas. The Middle-East and India will eventually have respectable video game industries of their own, and integration could theoretically end up influencing the mainstream Western game developers towards more diverse settings without asking Western devs to try to set aside their own cultural roots. The Witcher is a great example of a uniquely flavored game franchise that started outside the mainstream in an attempt to share one culture's spin on a popular kind of setting with the rest of the world, which caught fire because there was a hunger for that kind of originality. And in any case, as I said, development teams specifically looking to explore medievalish India or anywhere else are going to be much more likely to succeed in doing so in a satisfying manner than current Triple A games suddenly trying to include radically different real cultural settings the developers aren't nearly as well-versed in portraying into existing franchises and gameworlds. In the current climate that just sounds like a recipe for backlash, accusations of racism and cultural misrepresentation and appropriation to me, essentially no matter what they do or how hard they try to custom-tailor the experience to those who might feel that way.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11672
0
May 15, 2024 14:58:37 GMT
Deleted
0
May 15, 2024 14:58:37 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 22:40:07 GMT
Meh, given all that has happened in known history of Thedas it's surprising the world is still around. That's before factoring in a GW who defeats a Blight in record time while being persecuted by the government, a refugee carrying nothing but the clothes on their back to a new city and possibly ending up the viscount, and a nobody who ends up becoming Andraste light, goes into the future, and prevents one of the original darkspawn from causing the apocalypse. In all probability Thedas should be rubble by now. I don't see why there wouldn't be other heroes in other parts of the world who also stop catastrophes from destroying the planet. See my response above as to my doubt that Bioware will go much deeper into the existing setting than what we've already been given. Perhaps they have 'not!France' in their heads whenever they think about Orlais so all we get in game are farcical nobles with horrible accents. I'm pessimistic that Tevinter will be purely an evil empire with vaguely-Latin names rather than having much actual source material taken from Rome and Byzantium. Yes I would be happy to see more types of game developers create new settings and games. It doesn't have to be either/or though. I would imagine it would be difficult for indie companies to get as widespread advertising as a AAA studio so it's not realistic to put the entire burden of diversity onto small new developers. Of course, what's to say there aren't developers who aren't Canadian working at Bioware who would be interested in focusing on their background in their work?
I don't get your argument. Thedas' continued existence is implausible enough, so making things even more unbelievable by assuming that the whole world is in utter chaos and people just keep being in the right place at the right time to prevent ultimate catastrophe everywhere else too doesn't hurt? I feel like even if there was some likelihood that that's how the developers saw the world, which they certainly might, it's still a complete failure of logical thinking to assume so. I see what you mean, but refuse to accept that Bioware is suddenly incapable of fleshing out a culturally inspired setting if they try to do so instead of shoehorning it in. If that's the case then I would prefer it if they just stop making Dragon Age games altogether, instead of molesting the legacy of their own erstwhile successes with half-assed bullshit like Inquisition's exploration of Orlais. Let alone attempt to recreate mythical medieval Arabia to anyone's satisfaction off the coast of Thedas. The Middle-East and India will eventually have respectable video game industries of their own, and integration could theoretically end up influencing the mainstream Western game developers towards more diverse settings without asking Western devs to try to set aside their own cultural roots. The Witcher is a great example of a uniquely flavored game franchise that started outside the mainstream in an attempt to share one culture's spin on a popular kind of setting with the rest of the world, which caught fire because there was a hunger for that kind of originality. And in any case, as I said, development teams specifically looking to explore medievalish India or anywhere else are going to be much more likely to succeed in doing so in a satisfying manner than current Triple A games suddenly trying to include radically different real cultural settings the developers aren't nearly as well-versed in portraying into existing franchises and gameworlds. In the current climate that just sounds like a recipe for backlash, accusations of racism and cultural misrepresentation and appropriation to me, essentially no matter what they do or how hard they try to custom-tailor the experience to those who might feel that way. I'm saying the argument that the world could end five times over in Thedas means that the rest of the world should be quiet doesn't make sense to me. Quoting you below as I can't be bothered to figure out proboards systems.
'If things as intense as what Thedas is dealing with were occurring all over the world then that world's continued existence would just be implausible'
Just because Thedas is constantly dealing with apocalypse situations doesn't mean there's some global equilibrium that means the rest of the world must be asleep in order for the planet's continued survival. We can have Gilgamesh defeat Humbaba and still have Hercules complete his tasks.
And again, it's not an either/or case when world building Thedas and further lands. Canada and the US are melting pots of cultures so they should be able to generate content from many different backgrounds. Let's be honest, existing fantasy games from Canada and the US are 95% based on medieval Western Europe rather than the developers' personal history. But we know that Bioware employees have come from all over the world, so it's fair to say that the people working in Bioware could have a personal connection to non-Western stories and want to share those.
I'm all for encouraging non-Western game developers but I also don't feel like we need to confine Western developers to only create games based on Western mythologies. I think it's beneficial for diverse voices to be heard in all types of media rather than silo voices based on their origins.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 15, 2020 23:04:09 GMT
Ah yes, The Witcher, which derives its setting and characters entirely from Scandinavian folklore and myths.
Except for the genies.
And the harpies.
And the sirens.
And the succubus.
And the country of Zerrikania, which, despite never being shown in the games, is clearly taking influence from Africa and the Middle East.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 15, 2020 23:10:12 GMT
Also, someone please explain the "cultural roots" of Western developers? Does being "Western" automatically mean being European/white?
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,983 Likes: 3,500
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,500
Noxluxe
1,983
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Oct 15, 2020 23:11:44 GMT
I'm saying the argument that the world could end five times over in Thedas means that the rest of the world should be quiet doesn't make sense to me. Quoting you below as I can't be bothered to figure out proboards systems. 'If things as intense as what Thedas is dealing with were occurring all over the world then that world's continued existence would just be implausible' Just because Thedas is constantly dealing with apocalypse situations doesn't mean there's some global equilibrium that means the rest of the world must be asleep in order for the planet's continued survival. We can have Gilgamesh defeat Humbaba and still have Hercules complete his tasks.
And again, it's not an either/or case when world building Thedas and further lands. Canada and the US are melting pots of cultures so they should be able to generate content from many different backgrounds. Let's be honest, existing fantasy games from Canada and the US are 95% based on medieval Western Europe rather than the developers' personal history. But we know that Bioware employees have come from all over the world, so it's fair to say that the people working in Bioware could have a personal connection to non-Western stories and want to share those. I'm all for encouraging non-Western game developers but I also don't feel like we need to confine Western developers to only create games based on Western mythologies. I think it's beneficial for diverse voices to be heard in all types of media rather than silo voices based on their origins.
Nobody said the wider world should be 'asleep' or that there's a global equilibrium. I'm sure they have smaller-scale drama and wars and magical disasters of their own. But there's a difference between that and reality-warping and world-ending threats emerging regularly all over the place. If that's the case then that world is simply already dead, and doesn't know it yet. Making it rather pointless to make a big deal of defending. I'm already having a hard time seeing why Thedas shouldn't just roll over and accept the inevitable given their apparent odds of making it another few hundred years. A world where Thedas isn't the center of conflict and dysfunction, justifying it being the setting of the games as opposed to anywhere else, is a world that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of making it. And I'm sure nobody disagrees with you about any of those things. I would just much, much rather that non-European Fantasy emerge as its own thing, written by people who specifically want to do that and make something awesome and unique of it, rather than as half-assed Dragon Age DLC produced in the name of multiculturalism. Which seems to me to be the most likely outcome of wishing that Dragon Age would go to fantasy Persia. 1) Ah yes, The Witcher, which derives its setting and characters entirely from Scandinavian folklore and myths. Except for the genies. And the harpies. And the sirens. And the succubus. And the country of Zerrikania, which, despite never being shown in the games, is clearly taking influence from Africa and the Middle East. 2) Also, someone please explain the "cultural roots" of Western developers? 3)Deos being "Western" automatically mean being European/white? 1) Kind of completely missing the point. And I'm assuming you meant Slavic folklore and myths. Scandinavian lore is barely featured in the setting at all. 2) Figure it out from the context, like everybody else. I know you can do it. 3) No. This assumption doesn't even make sense. Not only are not all Europeans white, neither is the European fantasy being referred to. I'm curious why you felt the need to ask that question, except to race-bait.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 15, 2020 23:15:18 GMT
I'm all for encouraging non-Western game developers but I also don't feel like we need to confine Western developers to only create games based on Western mythologies. I think it's beneficial for diverse voices to be heard in all types of media rather than silo voices based on their origins. Well, that depends. Certain cultures aren't as, well, impressive as others. Depending on the timeframe. We can get influence from Dark Age Britannia, or 700 BC Egypt. 300 BC sub Saharan African, not so much. And you also have to make the setting appealing and interesting to the community. Maybe not everyone is on board to play "Aladin, but darker", in a 4-5th century Arabia based setting. And you already have the disheartening example of Jade Empire, which, while well received, tanked pretty bad. Developers aren't obligated to make specific things, but some things just don't sell.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 15, 2020 23:21:51 GMT
Well thankfully, storytellers are not limited to only drawing inspiration for a single story from just one specific time and place.
The Witcher doesn't do that. Dragon Age DEFINITELY doesn't do that.
|
|