azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Sept 4, 2020 1:33:04 GMT
I agree that having to make some sort evil deal is not very appealing for the individul character. On the other hand, I'm still salty that DAI forces my Dalish elf to make the Chantry great again. So my sympathy for possible elf-hating Chantry fans having to make a deal to get rid of Solas is somewhat limited. I'm not sure if that applies for every possible Divine options... And who know, maybe the Chantry will get blown up for a 3rd time in a row: - blown up apart when the Templars and Circles left - literally blown up by Corypheus - ???? - Profit!
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 4, 2020 1:48:38 GMT
I'm not sure if that applies for every possible Divine options... Probably depends on your personal definition of great, but it seems to come out pretty strong regardless of infighting. And who know, maybe the Chantry will get blown up for a 3rd time in a row: - blown up apart when the Templars and Circles left - literally blown up by Corypheus - ???? - Profit! Well, they did recover from that. I mean, if DAI would have allowed us to, say, invade ValRoy... All the supposedly "evil" things Lucius' lil' pet envy demon likes to show us never really had a chance. Besides... who is willing to bet that DA4 will not lead to some large-scale elf purges? (An individual Dalish clan doesn't count, that's some sort of a Bioware tradition apparently.)
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Post by colfoley on Sept 4, 2020 1:53:49 GMT
I'm not sure if that applies for every possible Divine options... Probably depends on your personal definition of great, but it seems to come out pretty strong regardless of infighting. And who know, maybe the Chantry will get blown up for a 3rd time in a row: - blown up apart when the Templars and Circles left - literally blown up by Corypheus - ???? - Profit! Well, they did recover from that. I mean, if DAI would have allowed us to, say, invade ValRoy... All the supposedly "evil" things Lucius' lil' pet envy demon likes to show us never really had a chance. Besides... who is willing to bet that DA4 will not lead to some large-scale elf purges? (An individual Dalish clan doesn't count, that's some sort of a Bioware tradition apparently.) Divine murder nun has already been doing enough purging...
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Post by azarhal on Sept 4, 2020 2:00:14 GMT
Besides... who is willing to bet that DA4 will not lead to some large-scale elf purges? (An individual Dalish clan doesn't count, that's some sort of a Bioware tradition apparently.) Beside a good chunk of Tevinter vying for dominance again after Corypheus's "Make Tevinter Great Again" attempt, the Qunari readying to forcefully convert everyone or kill them and elves mostly probably swarming to Solas's side with promises of killing everyone else while he doesn't expect you to survive the process because you're not actually his People...and we aren't even talking about more Red Lyrium. Yeah, the future doesn't look good, but on the bright side, almost everyone else in the North will probably die so no prejudices here. And no Dalish clan was armed in the production of Dragon Age Origins...well not much... Wait can you kill all of them if you side with the Werewolves?
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 4, 2020 3:32:52 GMT
Probably depends on your personal definition of great, but it seems to come out pretty strong regardless of infighting. Well, they did recover from that. I mean, if DAI would have allowed us to, say, invade ValRoy... All the supposedly "evil" things Lucius' lil' pet envy demon likes to show us never really had a chance. Besides... who is willing to bet that DA4 will not lead to some large-scale elf purges? (An individual Dalish clan doesn't count, that's some sort of a Bioware tradition apparently.) Divine murder nun has already been doing enough purging... I doubt that you will need Leliana for this, in fact, I think she isn't that likely to order elf purges. But I guess she cannot be everywhere to prevent local alienage raids or something. I mean, it isn't as if some humans would need an actual reason (see the stories about Chevalier graduation) to go knife-ear huntin' and now that we have some ancient super elf running around... Besides... who is willing to bet that DA4 will not lead to some large-scale elf purges? (An individual Dalish clan doesn't count, that's some sort of a Bioware tradition apparently.) Beside a good chunk of Tevinter vying for dominance again after Corypheus's "Make Tevinter Great Again" attempt, the Qunari readying to forcefully convert everyone or kill them and elves mostly probably swarming to Solas's side with promises of killing everyone else while he doesn't expect you to survive the process because you're not actually his People...and we aren't even talking about more Red Lyrium. Yeah, the future doesn't look good, but on the bright side, almost everyone else in the North will probably die so no prejudices here. And no Dalish clan was armed in the production of Dragon Age Origins...well not much... Wait can you kill all of them if you side with the Werewolves? Well, I can at least remember five clans on top of my head: -Zathrien's clan in DAO (player choice)
-Sabrae clan in DA2 (player choice, though it is pretty counter-intuitive)
-Virnehn in TME
-Lavellan in DAI (essentially player choice)
-(a part of?) Oranavra in TN
...and another one in the Tallis show, if I'm not mistaken. Also, some guys from the clan on the Exalted Plains.
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Post by bshep on Sept 4, 2020 3:36:36 GMT
Talk of the Blight reminded me of a game called Rune, where the hero had to drink the blood of Loki to give him the power to match his enemy. This gave me a wild idea for a pie-in-the-sky endgame situation... Imagine Solas & Co. are just too powerful to stop, or the Evanuris show up (though I expect they'll be the antagonists for the next game), but you have to do something. So you and your companions find a way to breach the Black City with the Idol, go to the source of the Blight, then willingly turn yourselves into Uber-Darkspawn. If nothing else, it would make for an... interesting final battle. Not that I expect anything like that would happen, but it would be a twist. Considering what Solas was able to do by the end of Trespasser who else could stop him now that he is likely at full power? Other Elven Gods, some titans, the Maker himself/herself?
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Post by telanadas on Sept 4, 2020 3:37:30 GMT
I feel like, in the Stolen Throne, the whole purpose of telling Maric he would be betrayed implied that she somehow thought it could be avoided. I like the theory that Flemeth knows a lot, and has been playing as "Fate", of a sort, pulling the threads of destiny to ensure an ending she seeks. But I just think that is way too OP, and also kind of boring. I don't want Flemeth to be behind everything. I dont want every protag and NPC and the fate of all Thedas to be a thing she planned all along. That essentially would make her the equivalent of the Maker for about 2000+ years. I don't think things have always gone her way though, like when she says 'things happened that were never meant to happen'. Maric eventually disappears and she didn't seem to foresee that. I don't think she's all powerful, she's just been around long enough to know how people work. If she did have a hand in Andraste's fate it may be that she was trying to sway people from the Old Gods because they're her main opponents in all of this. Anyway I really think she could be an even bigger anti-hero than Solas if the writers wanted to go that route.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 5:58:10 GMT
*shrugs* I don't really know whatpeople expect though. Moral amiguity...while may not exactly be a 'BioWare staple' has shown up a few times throughout the series. Hell again maybe not exactly 'deal with the devil' territory but none of the major choices in DAI was clear cut good vs. evil. Each of them had pros and cons, and each of them had things that would make them less then idea and you usually sacrificed something or risked something. You could probably pretty safely call it a Bioware staple at this point- its not only been a feature of most of the major decisions in the DA series, but Mass Effect as well (the "Suicide" Mission, the ME3 endings, etc). So it seems more probable than not that it'll be a major theme in DA4, though what form it takes exactly is obviously anyone's guess at this point.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 4, 2020 8:37:35 GMT
ME2 forced the player to work with Cerberus/TIM, aka making a deal with the devil, after returning Shepard from the dead who had the emotional response of a toaster concerning all of it and could fittingly look like the terminator at the end... So yeah, it has been done. And it might be done again. It's a very common narrative trope, neither inherently good nor bad. Always depends on how you go about it. I didn't mind all too much how it was done in ME2 but it could have been handled a lot better. The problem isn't that Shepard was forced to work with Cerberus but that there were too few opportunities to voice how th y felt about it. The elven gods might suffer a similar problem as the reapers: too powerful. So we can expect to need help, either from the evanuris directly or the titans. And there'll be a Deus ex machina in the end too, I'm sure. I vote for Sandal as Dragon Age's catalyst. I'm personally always in favor of making the protagonist suffer. That's good storytelling to me. The journey needs to be harrowing, downright suicidal and require painful sacrifices from the entire party. And if one such sacrifice is to turn into some kind of literal monster to save the world, so be it. Bring it on! One could argue that's exactly what happens to Shepard in the control ending. Super creepy transformation...
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 4, 2020 9:06:52 GMT
[ Becoming Solas to stop him.. yikes, but also intriguing Also a very Bioware thing to do. Those words of Solas they showcased could be hinting at that. However, likely to backfire as well, which would only be appropriate seeing as they did for him the first time round, which would mean that neither side had learned anything from history. In Lord of the Rings the wise know you cannot use the weapon of the enemy without essentially becoming the very thing you wish to destroy, Galadriel actually explaining this to Frodo and why all the really good guys won't accept the ring when he offers it to them. In the book Legolas also says this after seeing Aragon command the Army of the Dead, that he realised what a terrible and powerful dark lord he could have been had he taken the ring. Of course, in the book, the elven lords also make it explicit that they are willing to lose all their power if that's what it takes to finally vanquish the evil of the One Ring. So, to be honest, we had the dodge the bullet by doing something dodgy scenario in DAO, which then turned out to be a damp squib with regard to the negative impact of that decision. I'm pinning my hopes on the idea that Solas is taking his action because the world is already doomed without it because of the Blight, but we can remove that justification if we can find an alternative way to remove it from the world. Then we have "proved him wrong", so now it is purely a case of are you going to abort your plan, Solas, or do we have to kill you?
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 4, 2020 13:48:00 GMT
I've long maintained that we may see a 'deal with the devil' type of scenario in order to stop Solas, or perhaps be put in a 'damn if you do, damn if you don't' sort of situation that may reflect what he was put through in the past and what has effectively broken him in places... I do recall that in the past you've found my idea that Solas is grooming Inquisitor as his successor (albeit in what context remains unclear) as, at the very least, not that disagreeable...
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Post by phoray on Sept 4, 2020 13:55:12 GMT
I do recall that in the past you've found my idea that Solas is grooming Inquisitor as his successor (albeit in what context remains unclear) as, at the very least, not that disagreeable... Probably because it would mean the Inky as the new protagonist with the then extended ability to reject such grooming.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 4, 2020 14:06:39 GMT
I do recall that in the past you've found my idea that Solas is grooming Inquisitor as his successor (albeit in what context remains unclear) as, at the very least, not that disagreeable... Probably because it would mean the Inky as the new protagonist with the then extended ability to reject such grooming. Not really. It would require us an ability to control Inky or Inky's fate at some points in the narrative or through some means - which is not out of question even if Inky is an NPC. Also, just like Inquisitor can have an effect on people like Solas and how they act through their decisions and actions and relationships, so can new PC to Inquisitor. ALSO - having a story in which Inky is not the main PC would also mean that they could have a wider range of possible fates, including the one there they become fallen heroes or, well, the devil
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 4, 2020 14:44:40 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 4, 2020 15:33:02 GMT
I do recall that in the past you've found my idea that Solas is grooming Inquisitor as his successor (albeit in what context remains unclear) as, at the very least, not that disagreeable... The idea that Solas was grooming them was. The Inquisitor (or new PC now) actually becoming like him and committing atrocities was not.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 4, 2020 17:04:31 GMT
Here's a higher quality version of our lovely "Crow" concept art (and early sketch) from the trailer. Is it possible this could be Leggy?
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 4, 2020 17:08:01 GMT
Plot twist: Crow Lady is Rinna, who secretly pulled a Leliana and survived Zevran/Taliesen's assassination attempt and is now a candidate for the Antivan throne.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 4, 2020 17:12:34 GMT
Here's a higher quality version of our lovely "Crow" concept art (and early sketch) from the trailer. Is it possible this could be Leggy? I'm not really getting that impression myself, but they're both leggy and have long hair, so... I guess it's possible? Civilian vs Zorro outfit?
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Post by Gilli on Sept 4, 2020 17:24:50 GMT
Is it possible this could be Leggy? I'm not really getting that impression myself, but they're both leggy and have long hair, so... I guess it's possible? Civilian vs Zorro outfit? Tbh I'm hoping that it's Andarateia from Eight Little Talons (Tevinter Nights)
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Post by smilesja on Sept 4, 2020 17:28:51 GMT
Is it possible this could be Leggy? I'm not really getting that impression myself, but they're both leggy and have long hair, so... I guess it's possible? Civilian vs Zorro outfit? I mean they did it with DAI so naturally they'll consider it for DA4.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 4, 2020 17:29:36 GMT
I'm not really getting that impression myself, but they're both leggy and have long hair, so... I guess it's possible? Civilian vs Zorro outfit? Tbh I'm hoping that it's Andarateia from Eight Little Talons (Tevinter Nights) I guess I'm going to have to re-read that again...
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 4, 2020 17:39:35 GMT
Here's a higher quality version of our lovely "Crow" concept art (and early sketch) from the trailer. Is it possible this could be Leggy? I’ve been thinking they may be iterations of the same person from when I first saw the video. Also i’d Prefer not to have companions be from secondary mediums such as books
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Post by Gilli on Sept 4, 2020 17:43:57 GMT
Tbh I'm hoping that it's Andarateia from Eight Little Talons (Tevinter Nights) I guess I'm going to have to re-read that again... Do it! Eight Little Talons is my absolute fav story in TN, I was soo worried for Teia and Vi.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 4, 2020 17:44:47 GMT
I've long maintained that we may see a 'deal with the devil' type of scenario in order to stop Solas, or perhaps be put in a 'damn if you do, damn if you don't' sort of situation that may reflect what he was put through in the past and what has effectively broken him in places... No more RGB endings pls...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 4, 2020 17:54:44 GMT
I guess I'm going to have to re-read that again... Do it! Eight Little Talons is my absolute fav story in TN, I was soo worried for Teia and Vi. They made Francesca sad. They must be punished!
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