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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2020 4:45:20 GMT
Is there really a ‘pattern’ of the PC coming from the previous game’s location? Yes, it happened both times. But has a dev ever stated that this was both purposeful and something that was going to continue? I’ve never heard of that before. Two is a pretty small sample; even if it’s the only two data points at all.
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Frost
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Post by Frost on Sept 5, 2020 5:26:23 GMT
To me Lord of Fortune would be fine for a companion but would not be a good background for the pc. I like to play a mage character, and Lord of Fortune seems better suited for a rogue. It isn't very appealing to me to play a character whose main motivation is doing things to get paid. It seems very random with no connection to the plot, which is especially bad considering the pc could have been the Inquisitor, who is directly tied to the plot.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 5, 2020 5:28:43 GMT
If it IS the intended pattern, meaning the new protag would be from Orlais or Ferelden again, then I demand that one of the voice options be "terrible fake French accent".
And I mean TERRIBLE. Steve-Martin-as-Inspector-Clouseau TERRIBLE.
I will be Lord Baguette du Fromage, and my mabari will be Frou-Frou.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 5, 2020 7:20:04 GMT
Is there really a ‘pattern’ of the PC coming from the previous game’s location? Yes, it happened both times. But has a dev ever stated that this was both purposeful and something that was going to continue? I’ve never heard of that before. Two is a pretty small sample; even if it’s the only two data points at all. Does it still count as a logical fallacy if the two data points are the only two representatives we know of? But it is a good point on the whole dev thing. And yes they could always change their mind on it which is pretty much a given. To me Lord of Fortune would be fine for a companion but would not be a good background for the pc. I like to play a mage character, and Lord of Fortune seems better suited for a rogue. It isn't very appealing to me to play a character whose main motivation is doing things to get paid. It seems very random with no connection to the plot, which is especially bad considering the pc could have been the Inquisitor, who is directly tied to the plot. Well we do not know how they will tie a theoretical Lord of Fortune into the plot with Solas. But just spit balling here: One. Their job hunting fortunes and relics could put them onto the trail of Solas from the other end of the thing. Tey just basically stumble onto one another. Two. The Inquisition could hire the LoF apart of their greater efforts against Solas, whether or not they clue them into that. Three: Them and Solas could end up being on opposiing ends in hunting for an artifact at the same time, maybe even the idol itself...or Solas could do something else that would make a LoF protag invested in stopping him like killing a friend, companion, lover, or just being really annoying. I mean once upon a time the Inquisitor was not a part of this plot either until they 'were' the same thing could apply to any new character...even mercenary scum.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 5, 2020 7:51:02 GMT
BioWare COULD do it, but based on past history, I think any group we join early on or start as a member of will be more personally connected to the actual plot of the game. BioWare will at least *try* to give us a personal reason to get involved, beyond 'got paid to do it'. This thing is initially that could be the reason you are involved because your mysterious employer wants to keep it that way, so you could be locating a number of artefacts or information for the shadow inquisition, another organisation, even Solas and initially you aren't worried because it is just a job. Then as you go along you start to see a pattern evolving or simply something happens to make it more personal. If done right, it could work really well, just so long as they don't once again leave the PC holding the idiot ball for not catching on sooner that something was going on. A professional treasure hunter would allow you to have a legitimate reason to get involved without asking too many questions at the beginning.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 5, 2020 7:59:44 GMT
Yup. I can see a LoF getting involved with the plot by looking for an artifact or just finding one by chance. Which could be what the diving picture is all about.
Being a "pirate" would also make the mandatory (?) MP an easy thing to integrate. I'd personal hate such a jolly theme for a MP but then again they could be testing the waters for doing something light hearted and fun with Dragon Age as a separate thing. I guess spy missionsl for MP would be more fitting for the plot - if we assume that part of the original idea survived. But I can see treasure hunting as more appealing for a MP, especially for people who might buy the game just for the MP.
What doesn't really jibe for me is that a LoF isn't really the best example for somebody without power. Unless we look at that phrase strictly from a political angle. Not nobility = no power. Any person FREE to seek their fortune has more agency over their own fate than a slave or even a poor street urchin.
I still vastly prefer the protagonist to be tied closely to the political stage. I want to start out as a slave in Tevinter or some other form of "insider" who introduces the player to this world from the very bottom of society.
I would be fine with a standalone fun game about a treasure hunting crew and their adventures revolving around a local low key story. Not as a main story arc game. I want DA4 to be a serious game of all kinds of horrors, a real spectacle of looming war, elven madness and red lyrium.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 5, 2020 8:07:40 GMT
Is there really a ‘pattern’ of the PC coming from the previous game’s location? Yes, it happened both times. But has a dev ever stated that this was both purposeful and something that was going to continue? I’ve never heard of that before. Two is a pretty small sample; even if it’s the only two data points at all. I don't recall it being said anywhere and it seems to me the reason they had Hawke coming from Ferelden was because the whole idea was they were a refugee who had lost everything in the Blight, which never affected the rest of Thedas this time round. Then having all backgrounds having the Freemarches, so outside of Ferelden/Orlais was to distance you from where the events were taking place in order to explain why you were not known to hardly anyone in the area. However, coming from the Freemarches was not the same as coming from Kirkwall, where Hawke was based for the majority of DA2 and the immediately surrounding area. We never visited anywhere else in the Freemarches, so, for example, the Treveylan human coming from Ostwick was no different to saying they came from anywhere else in Thedas because it was a separate City State to Kirkwall that we never visited. If we had to come from the same place as the Inquisitor, there is no fixed place as the Freemarches isn't a country, just a collective term for the area where the various city states are located, and no real reason to be in the north either. With the Qunari invasion, most people would be actually heading south out of Tevinter. That said, if they made the PC a slave, I suppose they could have originally come from the Freemarches.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 5, 2020 8:21:48 GMT
I still vastly prefer the protagonist to be tied closely to the political stage. I want to start out as a slave in Tevinter or some other form of "insider" who introduces the player to this world from the very bottom of society. I agree that a slave background would be more interesting provided we are starting off in Tevinter. However, with the proliferation of artwork involving the Crows and people saying several of the shots are of Antiva City, it could be that we begin there, where a Lord of Fortune might be more appropriate but you could equally be someone working off a debt your family owes to the Crows or simply a merchant or other tradesperson who gets caught up in events. What if you were trying to trace a family member who had been snatched by Llomerryn pirates and sold into slavery? Now would give a personal plot hook and a reason why you might work for certain factions, in order to acquire information about where they were taken and subsequently travel into Tevinter, where you get caught up in events there. It would mean that you might definitely not be working for the Shadow Inquisition in the beginning but they subsequently approach you because they have been impressed with your efforts thus far. To be honest, if we are not returning as the Inquisitor from the outset, then I think the PC should not be automatically connected with them or even be aware of the threat of Solas at the beginning but only brought into that part of the plot at a later stage. Let the early part of the game be like an extended origin story, introducing us to that part of the world and forming a bond with our new PC.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 5, 2020 8:33:45 GMT
BioWare COULD do it, but based on past history, I think any group we join early on or start as a member of will be more personally connected to the actual plot of the game. BioWare will at least *try* to give us a personal reason to get involved, beyond 'got paid to do it'. This thing is initially that could be the reason you are involved because your mysterious employer wants to keep it that way, so you could be locating a number of artefacts or information for the shadow inquisition, another organisation, even Solas and initially you aren't worried because it is just a job. Then as you go along you start to see a pattern evolving or simply something happens to make it more personal. If done right, it could work really well, just so long as they don't once again leave the PC holding the idiot ball for not catching on sooner that something was going on. A professional treasure hunter would allow you to have a legitimate reason to get involved without asking too many questions at the beginning. Hopefully in this scenario, as you kind of alluded to, it will be more of a slow burn approach then with Inquisition. As much as I loved the game it did annoy me still how everything was essentially handed to the player without you being able to put the pieces together. It would be a lot better and nicer if we got more moments sort of where we could get information revealed to us that the player/PC could react to rather then vomit of exposition.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 5, 2020 9:08:34 GMT
Well, my position has always been that the Veil should be torn down at the start of the game, and we should get thrown into chaos from the beginning, so when people start talking about "slow burn" and "mystery", that all sounds very unappealing to me. Especially since, as a player, I already have the meta information about what Solas is and what he's doing. I really hope the game isn't going to make me spend a significant chunk of time learning shit I basically already know.
In a more personal, focussed story, I would be fine with playing a character whose whole deal is that they are a treasure/bounty hunter. But we're not playing a personal, focussed story. We're playing a big goddamn Save-The-World game, and personally I believe that the PC needs a MUCH better reason (or choice of reasons, because roleplaying) to go toe-to-toe with the Ancient Wizard-God Who Turns Entire Armies To Stone Just By Blinking than something as incredibly petty and small as "got to treasure before me" or "someone paid me to do it". And not only that, but there needs to be a really good narrative justification for why the PC is the person who *should* be doing the job, and why people *should* follow them and not literally anyone else.
As prosaic and lame as it is to just *happen* to give the PC the special power needed to combat the Bad Thing(tm) through birthright or happenstance or what have you (like Inquisition did), it at least provides a good, solid foundation for getting involved in the conflict, and for others being willing to let you lead them.
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 5, 2020 9:22:16 GMT
Yeah while certain aspects of a LoF background does appeal to me and even match up with some of the character plans I personally have dor DA 4... I am getting more of a companion vibe from them rather then a full blown protagonist. Lets pro and con it: Pro: -Relatively ambigious background to where it seems like virtually *every* type of character in Thedas could be one (with the possible exception of mages?) -Their expertise and interests make them a natural fit to opposing Solas from a professional point of view. -Much like Witchers their occupation does make it natural for them to do side questing. -Could easily be played as ignorant to the larger world. -Bonus, they don't have power. If nobles are in their ranks I bet they are of the 'deposed/exiled' variety. Con: -It just does not match BioWare's pattern or precedent on their protags being from the last country we played in so if that holds our protag will be Ferelden/ Orlesian (which I suppose a LoF could be...but again), also I was hoping that we would play as an agent of the Inquisition. -While they COULD be from Tevinter they don't HAVE TO BE from Tevinter. Granted this could be another area where they have some wiggle room but Ijust get the feeling that the LoFs are supposed to go into the 'no one from nowhere' trope. See, the con of not being an agent of the Inquisitions is a bonus for me, as I don’t want to play as one. To me, being an agent of the Inquisition would be a pretty boring experience, and while I’m quite fine with a new protagonist, it doesn’t make sense (to me) that they’d develop a story where an agent, and not the Inquisitor, would deal with Solas, especially if they’d try to build a sort of rivalry with Solas, as possibly hinted in the dev diary. I can understand wanting a new protagonist, but being on the same organization, under the very character that you played before and that has an established connection with Solas, seems weird, and a bit like a slap in the face, for those that want a returning Inquisitor as a protagonist. The only ways, in my opinion, that could make work those scenario are if the game is based on a coop/GaaS (the agent protagonist work quite well in this case), which I don’t want at all, or if the Inquisitor is dead/killed by Solas, which I think would lead to some mixed opinions. I don’t mind at all if our protagonist is hired by the Inquisition, or work with/ally themselves with the Inquisition, but I’m honestly not interested in playing as an agent of it. Although I get why it might be appealing for some. I think the LoF protagonist would work well in combination with other backgrounds, so that we can still choose our ‘origin’. One thing, however, is that if we are a LoF already from the start, I think there should be prologue to establish this background, before jumping directly in the main story.
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Post by Kaibe on Sept 5, 2020 10:10:22 GMT
What’s going on with that person in the background? Are they fighting something? Have they been turned to stone maybe? The person in the front doesn’t seem too concerned about it...
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Sept 5, 2020 11:39:06 GMT
What’s going on with that person in the background? Are they fighting something? Have they been turned to stone maybe? The person in the front doesn’t seem too concerned about it... It's a strange pose for a statue, unless it was a Made By Solas one The person in the front is probably just there for scale, happen in a lots of those concept arts.
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 5, 2020 12:05:40 GMT
See, the con of not being an agent of the Inquisitions is a bonus for me, as I don’t want to play as one. To me, being an agent of the Inquisition would be a pretty boring experience, and while I’m quite fine with a new protagonist, it doesn’t make sense (to me) that they’d develop a story where an agent, and not the Inquisitor, would deal with Solas, especially if they’d try to build a sort of rivalry with Solas, as possibly hinted in the dev diary. I can understand wanting a new protagonist, but being on the same organization, under the very character that you played before and that has an established connection with Solas, seems weird, and a bit like a slap in the face, for those that want a returning Inquisitor as a protagonist. The only ways, in my opinion, that could make work those scenario are if the game is based on a coop/GaaS (the agent protagonist work quite well in this case), which I don’t want at all, or if the Inquisitor is dead/killed by Solas, which I think would lead to some mixed opinions. I don’t mind at all if our protagonist is hired by the Inquisition, or work with/ally themselves with the Inquisition, but I’m honestly not interested in playing as an agent of it. Although I get why it might be appealing for some. I think the LoF protagonist would work well in combination with other backgrounds, so that we can still choose our ‘origin’. One thing, however, is that if we are a LoF already from the start, I think there should be prologue to establish this background, before jumping directly in the main story. Yeah the last thing i want is to be an agent of the inquisition.
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Post by witchcocktor on Sept 5, 2020 14:17:19 GMT
I'm hoping we aren't THE CHOSEN HERO this time around. I think the setting could work with the PC being basically just a helpful tool for the real heroes. Heck, it would even be nice to kind of go against the (shadow) Inquisition at some point, and not follow their orders granted we at any point are affiliated with them. Dragon Age probably doesn't work without the PC coming out of the story as a BigShot McHero though.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 5, 2020 15:01:12 GMT
I dunno, the Lords of Fortune come kind of out of nowhere, in niche ancillary media for an already niche video game property. I would put my money on... maybe a representative party member, and some associated quests, rather than the PC themselves becoming a member. But also, all the PC backgrounds could be Lords of Fortune and still differ based on race. Lord of Fortune is just a job. There's still ample room for variations on upbringing, etc. I’m hoping it won’t be something like this, because it would mean qunari PCs are likely to be Tal-Vashoth again. At some point I want to play a Qunari qunari.
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Post by witchcocktor on Sept 5, 2020 15:32:20 GMT
I dunno, the Lords of Fortune come kind of out of nowhere, in niche ancillary media for an already niche video game property. I would put my money on... maybe a representative party member, and some associated quests, rather than the PC themselves becoming a member. But also, all the PC backgrounds could be Lords of Fortune and still differ based on race. Lord of Fortune is just a job. There's still ample room for variations on upbringing, etc. I’m hoping it won’t be something like this, because it would mean qunari PCs are likely to be Tal-Vashoth again. At some point I want to play a Qunari qunari. Would that even be possible from a roleplay (and gameplay) perspective? Like genuinely, how do you think that'd work?
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 5, 2020 15:46:18 GMT
Would that even be possible from a roleplay (and gameplay) perspective? Like genuinely, how do you think that'd work? A: "Karashok, you will go to point X and do Y" 1. "I obey." (Optional Dalek intonation, continues quest) 2. "I won't" (leads to B:) B: "Karashok, you will go to point X and do Y" 1. "I obey." (Optional Dalek intonation, continues quest) 2. "I won't" (leads to "Fine, here's your Quamek")
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 5, 2020 15:59:03 GMT
Be interesting if we could play, or have as a companion that is, a reformist Qunari. Someone who believes in some tenets of the Qun but has ~different~ ideas too. The Leliana of Qunari.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 5, 2020 16:11:07 GMT
I’m hoping it won’t be something like this, because it would mean qunari PCs are likely to be Tal-Vashoth again. At some point I want to play a Qunari qunari. Would that even be possible from a roleplay (and gameplay) perspective? Like genuinely, how do you think that'd work? I think it’s far too rigid to really work. Beyond pen and paper, I don’t see how the game’s internal flow chart can really accommodate it to a meaningful degree.
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Post by witchcocktor on Sept 5, 2020 16:26:33 GMT
Be interesting if we could play, or have as a companion that is, a reformist Qunari. Someone who believes in some tenets of the Qun but has ~different~ ideas too. The Leliana of Qunari. On one hand I agree, but I think it needs some extra something to it that it's not just a repeat of Dorian's '' let's reform Tevinter '' or Leliana's '' let's reform the Chantry '' Maybe something instead of changing Qun from the inside, a companion that starts another group that believes their interpretation of the Tome of Koslun is the correct one and the current Qun is a perversion of the true mission of Qun and qunari.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 5, 2020 16:29:25 GMT
Be interesting if we could play, or have as a companion that is, a reformist Qunari. Someone who believes in some tenets of the Qun but has ~different~ ideas too. The Leliana of Qunari. On one hand I agree, but I think it needs some extra something to it that it's not just a repeat of Dorian's '' let's reform Tevinter '' or Leliana's '' let's reform the Chantry '' Maybe something instead of changing Qun from the inside, a companion that starts another group that believes their interpretation of the Tome of Koslun is the correct one and the current Qun is a perversion of the true mission of Qun and qunari. Like the Orthodox/Catholic split; sounds interesting! I'd be for that. Various Qun branches popping up.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 5, 2020 17:10:45 GMT
I'm hoping we aren't THE CHOSEN HERO this time around. I think the setting could work with the PC being basically just a helpful tool for the real heroes. Heck, it would even be nice to kind of go against the (shadow) Inquisition at some point, and not follow their orders granted we at any point are affiliated with them. Dragon Age probably doesn't work without the PC coming out of the story as a BigShot McHero though. I want to be a commoner!
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 5, 2020 17:49:59 GMT
Like the Orthodox/Catholic split; sounds interesting! Actually that is more like the split between the southern and Imperial Chantries. If the Qun split is would be more like having two different types of Communism, as was once the case with Russia and China. However, just having a small group of Qunari breaking away would really just be a group of Tal'Vashoth continuing to live by the rules of the Qun outside it rather than within, with whatever adjustments they saw fit based on what they didn't accept when they were in it. I'd certainly like to see more extracts from the Tome of Koslun and discover more about the history of the Qunari but I'm still not convinced by the current alleged split between the Antaam, presumably led by the Arishok, and the remainder of the Qunari.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
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August 2017
theascendent
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Sept 5, 2020 17:55:36 GMT
Remember that we have to think in terms of realism. Any player character we play has to have a decent level of education and competency in basic skills. Thedas is a medieval setting and the common masses in such times were illiterate and given a rudimentary education to fulfill there obligations, the only people who had a decent education were nobles and church officials. All of our player characters have a standard education whether we were tutored at home by our parents/clan/tribe/family. A more lowly origin needs some wiggle room to make sense, again that might make a slave origin trickier due to a lack of formal education slaves usually received.
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