theascendent
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Sept 5, 2020 18:01:45 GMT
In terms of religion I really want to see an Imperial Chantry service, apparently the priests(who are also mages) perform magic during the service. Didn't Tevinter establish a version of the Chantry long before Orlais? I would love the big religious revelation of DA4 (one of them at least, it isn't Dragon Age without these) undeniable proof that Andraste was a mage. Maybe a recording showing her using magic during the original Exalted March like the memory crystals or a Fade echo showing some of her life. The Elves received a thrashing in Inquisition, the Dwarves found their long lost parents and the Qun is acting illogical. Time for the Chantry to finally get a kicking.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 5, 2020 18:19:36 GMT
Remember that we have to think in terms of realism. Any player character we play has to have a decent level of education and competency in basic skills. Thedas is a medieval setting and the common masses in such times were illiterate and given a rudimentary education to fulfill there obligations, the only people who had a decent education were nobles and church officials. All of our player characters have a standard education whether we were tutored at home by our parents/clan/tribe/family. A more lowly origin needs some wiggle room to make sense, again that might make a slave origin trickier due to a lack of formal education slaves usually received. I mean, theoretically the Dwarf Commoner Warden and City Elf Warden shouldn't be able to read, but they're still player characters. I just headcanon that Rica/Cyrion taught them how to read, or that the other companions in the party do the reading for them.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 5, 2020 19:00:06 GMT
Well, my position has always been that the Veil should be torn down at the start of the game, and we should get thrown into chaos from the beginning, so when people start talking about "slow burn" and "mystery", that all sounds very unappealing to me. Especially since, as a player, I already have the meta information about what Solas is and what he's doing. I really hope the game isn't going to make me spend a significant chunk of time learning shit I basically already know. In a more personal, focussed story, I would be fine with playing a character whose whole deal is that they are a treasure/bounty hunter. But we're not playing a personal, focussed story. We're playing a big goddamn Save-The-World game, and personally I believe that the PC needs a MUCH better reason (or choice of reasons, because roleplaying) to go toe-to-toe with the Ancient Wizard-God Who Turns Entire Armies To Stone Just By Blinking than something as incredibly petty and small as "got to treasure before me" or "someone paid me to do it". And not only that, but there needs to be a really good narrative justification for why the PC is the person who *should* be doing the job, and why people *should* follow them and not literally anyone else. As prosaic and lame as it is to just *happen* to give the PC the special power needed to combat the Bad Thing(tm) through birthright or happenstance or what have you (like Inquisition did), it at least provides a good, solid foundation for getting involved in the conflict, and for others being willing to let you lead them. That's a point. In Tevinter Nights, Hollix was about to nope right out of Minrathous when they had the chance. They only rethink it cus they get guilt tripped by that kid. Lord of Fortune don't really owe allegiance or loyalty to anyone, don't feel duty bound to anyone (but each other?), and thus it'd be kind of hard ot justify them sticking around against the guy who can petrify them as a PC unless you railroad them somehow. As a companion, you can have a LoF feel a guilt trip or have a conscience or w/e. As a PC, you take away player agency when the writers declare a motivation like that.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 5, 2020 19:33:32 GMT
But that's the thing. I love escalating fiction which starts out small and then gets bigger. The Hobbit started out as 'just' a job and then ended with a mega war between five armies over control of a strategic location...and then technically the fate of all life in ME.
And yes ideally they won't give Force motivation onto the player... but they don't have to and have shown they can avoid things like this from happening. As I mentioned the LoF could have a companion that gets killed off by Solas early on, a family member, or some other personal stake...but then they will give us the RP options to decide what our PCs motivations are. Like 'he killed my brother' or 'I'm just in it for the money' or 'I care about saving the world'. They've already done this with both Ryder and the Inquisitor...suvi asks you what your motivation was for coming to Andromeda...the Inquisitor gets to state their motivations during their coronation speech from the very personal (he's against me so I'm against him) the practical (he seeks to become a god so he must be stopped) and 'to restore order'/ the Chantry.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 5, 2020 19:52:46 GMT
To me Lord of Fortune would be fine for a companion but would not be a good background for the pc. I like to play a mage character, and Lord of Fortune seems better suited for a rogue. It isn't very appealing to me to play a character whose main motivation is doing things to get paid. It seems very random with no connection to the plot, which is especially bad considering the pc could have been the Inquisitor, who is directly tied to the plot. Think of the LoF as more of an Adventurer's Guild - Monster Hunting, Treasure Finding, Heists, Bodyguards, Dungeon Delvers, Uncovering Lost Lore. It feels like there's something there for everyone. And being both well-regarded and politically neutral, I see that as an avenue to work with all sides. While the LoF are based in Rivain, members can come from other countries. And they've already gotten involved in the Solas subplot, along with a number of other well-known characters. All it would take is a job that pulls you into the larger conflict.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 5, 2020 19:54:51 GMT
A more lowly origin needs some wiggle room to make sense, again that might make a slave origin trickier due to a lack of formal education slaves usually received. Not all slaves are poorly educated; it depends what their duties are. If their job is raising the children on behalf of the largely absent parents, they may be expected to be able to read to them at least. A Liberati could have earned their freedom through their ability to do more mundane administrative tasks on behalf of their master. May be they were even self taught by following the texts as the Chant is being said (my great grandfather did this in church, although he admits it was only rudimentary). So I think it would be possible to explain your ability to read and write according to the type of household you had been in.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 5, 2020 20:02:43 GMT
I would love the big religious revelation of DA4 (one of them at least, it isn't Dragon Age without these) undeniable proof that Andraste was a mage. The thing is the Imperial Chantry already believe she was a mage and undoubtedly have what they consider proof of this but the southern Chantry would just go into a state of denial, as with everything connected with the Herald in DAI. To be honest, the secular account of her life in WoT2, together with sections of the Chant and our knowledge of how Augurs work in the Avvar, makes me believe she was simply the Augur of her tribes, giving them spiritual leadership, whilst Maferath was the military, non magical one. Then the two were combined in the Exalted March until he felt she was leading them to disaster. However, we do know that there are meant to be texts of the Imperial Chantry that are banned by the Orlesian Chantry so it would be interesting if we could get to see these in the next game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 5, 2020 20:04:34 GMT
To me Lord of Fortune would be fine for a companion but would not be a good background for the pc. I like to play a mage character, and Lord of Fortune seems better suited for a rogue. It isn't very appealing to me to play a character whose main motivation is doing things to get paid. It seems very random with no connection to the plot, which is especially bad considering the pc could have been the Inquisitor, who is directly tied to the plot. Yeah, a complete slap in the face compared to the potential that was possible.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 5, 2020 20:06:42 GMT
To me Lord of Fortune would be fine for a companion but would not be a good background for the pc. I like to play a mage character, and Lord of Fortune seems better suited for a rogue. It isn't very appealing to me to play a character whose main motivation is doing things to get paid. It seems very random with no connection to the plot, which is especially bad considering the pc could have been the Inquisitor, who is directly tied to the plot. Think of the LoF as more of an Adventurer's Guild - Monster Hunting, Treasure Finding, Heists, Bodyguards, Dungeon Delvers, Uncovering Lost Lore. It feels like there's something there for everyone. And being both well-regarded and politically neutral, I see that as an avenue to work with all sides. While the LoF are based in Rivain, members can come from other countries. And they've already gotten involved in the Solas subplot, along with a number of other well-known characters. All it would take is a job that pulls you into the larger conflict. excellent point. With how political everyone is an LoF might be the only ones who could mediate any conflict.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 5, 2020 21:08:22 GMT
I’m hoping it won’t be something like this, because it would mean qunari PCs are likely to be Tal-Vashoth again. At some point I want to play a Qunari qunari. Would that even be possible from a roleplay (and gameplay) perspective? Like genuinely, how do you think that'd work? I imagine a Qunari PC would either have to be a Ben-Hassrath or some other role where the leadership wants them to mingle with outsiders. As far as RP, they wouldn’t necessarily need to be a real ideologue. Especially if they’re qunari, it’s likely they were born in the Qun. Maybe they haven’t had an opening to leave yet, and this is their chance. Maybe they were a good little Qunari until a month ago, when they realized they were starting to manifest magic. So the player could easily play them as very anti-Qun. And, even if they remain ideologically Qunari, Iron Bull shows us that the Qunari are more lax on behavior if you’re trying to build trust among the bas. The PC wouldn’t be forced to quote Koslun at every turn. Even a loyal Qunari could act like any other PC for most conversations. Sten and the Arishok were pretty preachy, but they’re in the military. It’s not too surprising that the tamassrans would pick the most patriotic flag-wavers for those roles. I definitely think it would be harder to play a PC from the Qunari military unless every origin was Qunari (not to mention that such an origin would be gender locked). But something more along the lines of Ben-Hassrath? Totally doable.
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 5, 2020 21:29:42 GMT
To me Lord of Fortune would be fine for a companion but would not be a good background for the pc. I like to play a mage character, and Lord of Fortune seems better suited for a rogue. It isn't very appealing to me to play a character whose main motivation is doing things to get paid. It seems very random with no connection to the plot, which is especially bad considering the pc could have been the Inquisitor, who is directly tied to the plot. Yeah, a complete slap in the face compared to the potential that was possible. I don’t think the connection to the main plot will be monetary, or at least, not after the maybe the start of the game. If the protagonist is a LoF, there’ll be an evolution to its role and connection to Solas and the main plot. The fact that the PC would be seemingly politically neutral is also appealing to me. Now, it’s doubtful that the connection BioWare will come up with could be comparable to the one the Inquisitor has with Solas (and it’s the main reason why I don’t want an agent of Inquisition PC. That would look like a lesser version of what we’d have got with The Inquisitor), although I don’t think it’ll be necessarily bad, and not interesting...but I can see why for some even if they'll write and execute this connection in a good way, it won’t be enough to get over the Inquisitor. I do stand but my point that, even if not comparable in scale and depth, that the same situation happened in DAI with Hawke not being the Inquisitor, and Corypheus. And while the two relationships aren’t on the same level, Hawke would’ve added a lot of depth (in my opinion) to a lot of different interactions with recurring characters and not, as well as other plots.
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Post by Little Bengel on Sept 5, 2020 21:30:36 GMT
A thought strikes me regarding the plot of DA4. While Solas will most likely play a central role in DA4's story with the sheer scale of his plans, what are the odds that the inciting incident to kick off the game isn't directly tied to him? There is a shitload of things going on in Thedas, after all. Not only are there elven terrorists/rebels running amok, but there's also a Qunari invasion that started in Tevinter (and is at great risk of spreading to other countries like Antiva), and a goddamn red lyrium-enhanced Blight has apparently begun, which would of course elicit a rather sizeable Warden intervention. And that's not taking into account anything else we may not be aware of just yet. I can perfectly see DA4's protagonist starting things off by involving themselves in something only tangentially related to the general Solas fuckery. (in fact, I can even see Solas being only one of a few major factors that leave everything at risk of going to shit once more )
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Sept 5, 2020 22:30:03 GMT
I know that our character will technically be considered a “hero” regardless, but I wonder if the developers are making heroism a larger theme to explore by injecting comic-book hero, marvel qualities into the game?
What makes me think this is the emphasis on heroism, both in the language used by the developers and the concept art as a whole. One developer said “You really feel like you’re the hero of the dragon age world, and you’re saving people!” Both concept arts depicting who we believe to be companions are described as, one, “Iconic heroes” and the other as “comic book poses.” Patrick did state that the pieces don’t necessarily represent the art style of the game, but it’s interesting that both styles fit under the “hero” theme. Another piece of concept art, the warrior shielding the woman and her baby from the dragon flame, is titled “We can be heroes.”
Patrick also said that we wouldn’t have much power or influence, but not every superhero has that, and some can’t even make themselves known outright to claim it by name. In a way, I see our PC’s hero name (or group) working like the Dread Wolf - the people we save are inspired by our name and are given hope, while the enemy politicians and leaders (and solas, he sounds pissed as hell in the trailer) are stricken with fear and dread. I’m thinking that many of our quests may involve saving towns, cities, and people, like a modern day super hero would, foiling everyone’s plans through subterfuge and fighting for the people of Thedas who are caught in the middle.
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Post by Frost on Sept 5, 2020 22:46:35 GMT
Now, it’s doubtful that the connection BioWare will come up with could be comparable to the one the Inquisitor has with Solas (and it’s the main reason why I don’t want an agent of Inquisition PC. That would look like a lesser version of what we’d have got with The Inquisitor), although I don’t think it’ll be necessarily bad, and not interesting...but I can see why for some even if they'll write and execute this connection in a good way, it won’t be enough to get over the Inquisitor. Yes, at this point it is hard for me to see what a new pc would bring to these scenes that wouldn't have been done much better by the Inquisitor. And then the question is, why have a new pc who is functioning in a similar but lesser role.
As most things are just speculation now, I will wait and see when the game is officially announced and discussed. However, I am not feeling optimistic on this.
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Post by phoray on Sept 6, 2020 0:58:58 GMT
more lowly origin needs some wiggle room to make sense, again that might make a slave origin trickier due to a lack of formal education slaves usually received. gervaise ninja'd me. Slaves that exhibit magic have to be taught as Calpernia was taught. And there are any number of reasons a noble may have their slaves taught, because literacy is just useful. really want to see an Imperial Chantry service, apparently the priests(who are also mages) perform magic during the service. This would be neat. I imagine that there are disgusting corners as well as beautiful ones in Tevinter. I want to see both extremes, and they having a really cool church service or other ritual type event (a fair) that shows off the opulence and the magic sounds excellent. I can perfectly see DA4's protagonist starting things off by involving themselves in something only tangentially related to the general Solas fuckery Some folks have theorized that Solas is too big to be a DA4 main boss, considering everything else that is blowing up. And imply he may be saved for either DLC or DA5. The latter is too ridiculous, considering the now huge time gap between games. some can’t even make themselves known outright to claim it by name. In a way, I see our PC’s hero name (or group) working like the Dread Wolf - the people we save are inspired by our name and are given hope, That's interesting. We're going to be the Batman of Thedas. It's a unique idea. We will save Thedas, but no one will know our name.... Solas' real name was forgotten as well.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 6, 2020 1:21:04 GMT
some can’t even make themselves known outright to claim it by name. In a way, I see our PC’s hero name (or group) working like the Dread Wolf - the people we save are inspired by our name and are given hope, That's interesting. We're going to be the Batman of Thedas. It's a unique idea. We will save Thedas, but no one will know our name.... Solas' real name was forgotten as well. He has lived long enough to see himself become the villain...
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Post by Solas on Sept 6, 2020 1:23:47 GMT
imagine the rage if the Solas plot was tied off outside of the DA4 basegame and you had to purchase DLC to do it. I don't think they'd go there. Trespasser was a lil different because it wasn't "buy Trespasser to get the true Corypheus denouement" and was like an epilogue plus setup for the next game.
I also don't want to see the Solas plot thread drag on into DA5. Don't get me wrong, I clearly love the character and the plot arc he brought/is bringing. but it's DA, not Solas Age, there's so many other cool things about Thedas and loads of other intriguing mysteries and threads hanging. imo "Solas Solas Solas Solas" like that up til through DA5 wouldn't be good for the setting. there are already feelings in some segments of the fandom that they're tired of Solas and don't give a crap about him one way or the other, or they feel that DA has been heavily elf-centric. DAI was the set up for him, let DA4 be the game in which he comes to the fore (as his true self, not the simple apostate-hobo who's hiding his true nature) and that be that in terms of centric 'screen time'. I don't think it'd be a good idea either to draw it out across another (2-5, or whatever) years in real time either between DA4 and a hypothetical DA5. + the sequels at each stage still have to be alright for new entries to the franchise who've never played the previous games and don't have that context. Plus if I have to read "The Inquisitor should be the PC of DA5 because they're the one with the original tie to Solas vs new PC" or "The DA4 PC should be the PC of DA5 because they had a tie/the latest tie to Solas vs a new PC" looping arguments I will claw out my eyeballs
Separate subject, I'm leery of [the idea of the*] new PC being a slave or former slave. I don't think BioWare would manage to handle it well (it wouldn't be intentional, but still) and I don't see the fandom not arguing about this or that aspect of that for the next decade.
* edit because I forgot words
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 6, 2020 1:35:01 GMT
imagine the rage if the Solas plot was tied off outside of the DA4 basegame and you had to purchase DLC to do it. I don't think they'd go there. Trespasser was a lil different because it wasn't "buy Trespasser to get the true Corypheus denouement" and was like an epilogue plus setup for the next game. I also don't want to see the Solas plot thread drag on into DA5. Don't get me wrong, I clearly love the character and the plot arc he brought/is bringing. but it's DA, not Solas Age, there's so many other cool things about Thedas and loads of other intriguing mysteries and thread hanging. there are already feelings in some segments of the fandom that they're tired of Solas and don't give a crap about him one way or the other, or they feel that DA has been heavily elf-centric. DAI was the set up for him, let DA4 be the game in which he comes to the fore (as his true self, not the simple apostate-hobo who's hiding his true nature) and that be that in terms of centric 'screen time'. I don't think it'd be a good idea either to draw it out across another (2-5, or whatever) years in real time either between DA4 and a hypothetical DA5. + the sequels at each stage still have to be alright for new entries to the franchise who've never played the previous games and don't have that context. Plus if I have to read "The Inquisitor should be the PC of DA5 because they're the one with the original tie to Solas vs new PC" or "The DA4 PC should be the PC of DA5 because they had a tie/the latest tie to Solas vs a new PC" looping arguments I will claw out my eyeballs Separate subject, I'm leery of the new PC being a slave or former slave. I don't think BioWare would manage to handle it well (it wouldn't be intentional, but still) and I don't see the fandom not arguing about this or that aspect of that for the next decade. Yep, agreed on all. Regarding the - potential - “slave” origin, I can see the appeal in the sense of it is an easy coverall for however many races we get offered and then transition to the role that we’ll play. The problem is, no matter how that experience is framed, you’re right, people will scream bloody murder. If the owner is a vile individual, there’ll be “virtue signalling” accusations and “ oh come on, they are clearly using them as X surrogate here”. If the owner is - other than the fact that they own slaves - a nice person, they’ll be accused of bleaching the issue to make it seem like it isn’t “all that bad”. While popcorn aplenty could be consumed, the hassle would far outweigh the humour.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 6, 2020 1:42:04 GMT
imagine the rage if the Solas plot was tied off outside of the DA4 basegame and you had to purchase DLC to do it. I don't think they'd go there. Trespasser was a lil different because it wasn't "buy Trespasser to get the true Corypheus denouement" and was like an epilogue plus setup for the next game. I also don't want to see the Solas plot thread drag on into DA5. Don't get me wrong, I clearly love the character and the plot arc he brought/is bringing. but it's DA, not Solas Age, there's so many other cool things about Thedas and loads of other intriguing mysteries and threads hanging. imo "Solas Solas Solas Solas" like that up til through DA5 wouldn't be good for the setting. there are already feelings in some segments of the fandom that they're tired of Solas and don't give a crap about him one way or the other, or they feel that DA has been heavily elf-centric. DAI was the set up for him, let DA4 be the game in which he comes to the fore (as his true self, not the simple apostate-hobo who's hiding his true nature) and that be that in terms of centric 'screen time'. I don't think it'd be a good idea either to draw it out across another (2-5, or whatever) years in real time either between DA4 and a hypothetical DA5. + the sequels at each stage still have to be alright for new entries to the franchise who've never played the previous games and don't have that context. Plus if I have to read "The Inquisitor should be the PC of DA5 because they're the one with the original tie to Solas vs new PC" or "The DA4 PC should be the PC of DA5 because they had a tie/the latest tie to Solas vs a new PC" looping arguments I will claw out my eyeballs Separate subject, I'm leery of the new PC being a slave or former slave. I don't think BioWare would manage to handle it well (it wouldn't be intentional, but still) and I don't see the fandom not arguing about this or that aspect of that for the next decade. I could see them easily make Solas kind of a background 'big bad' type character too. Yes, his plot line should be wrapped up in 4 but it could easily be a background overarching plot while the meat of the story deals with something else.
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Post by phoray on Sept 6, 2020 1:43:40 GMT
I guess I never saw the Slave Origin as being owned by a specific person. I imagined more like, we were captured or were born into a slave pen of a sort, until such time as we could be sold off to work. Nobody wants a 5 year old as a servant, where do they go?
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Post by Solas on Sept 6, 2020 1:45:01 GMT
That'd be fine with me, as long as it wraps up in 4 ye. There is a lot of 'meat' potential too that seems like it will be floating in our noodle soup in DA4 - Qunari invasion, the Warden plot, the Crows stuff, etc. colfoley
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 6, 2020 1:46:07 GMT
Separate subject, I'm leery of the new PC being a slave or former slave. I don't think BioWare would manage to handle it well (it wouldn't be intentional, but still) and I don't see the fandom not arguing about this or that aspect of that for the next decade. Yeah, I can't imagine BW going the route of having the PC start as a slave. No... just... no. That's just an invitation for so much trouble.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 6, 2020 1:47:52 GMT
I guess I never saw the Slave Origin as being owned by a specific person. I imagined more like, we were captured or were born into a slave pen of a sort, until such time as we could be sold off to work. Nobody wants a 5 year old as a servant, where do they go? Or a scenario where its a group ownership sort of thing. Like a slave fighter in an arena type of deal. We may never actually meet our 'master' in such a scenario (or a few other scenarios).
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Post by colfoley on Sept 6, 2020 1:48:23 GMT
Separate subject, I'm leery of the new PC being a slave or former slave. I don't think BioWare would manage to handle it well (it wouldn't be intentional, but still) and I don't see the fandom not arguing about this or that aspect of that for the next decade. Yeah, I can't imagine BW going the route of having the PC start as a slave. No... just... no. That's just an invitation for so much trouble. An ESCAPED slave though.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 6, 2020 1:51:44 GMT
Yeah, I can't imagine BW going the route of having the PC start as a slave. No... just... no. That's just an invitation for so much trouble. An ESCAPED slave though. No, not even that. You'll have fans raging they would have died before becoming a slave.
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