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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 11, 2020 9:02:00 GMT
(although the people that hurt her in their games should feel ashamed of themselves ) I dunno, mentioning shoes a few more times might easily have led to an accident in DAO in my game... Leliana is lucky to be alive!
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 11, 2020 9:09:23 GMT
Well yeah, the first sentence is true. If they're in armor, they're serious. I meant that Bull saying "then they'd always have to be at war" in response to the idea of them always wearing armor was meant as a joke, but probably isn't actually far off the mark. If all you have is a hammer, etc. I don't think we should take this conversation too seriously. After all, the Qun have never not been officially at war with Tevinter. It is just a while since it was open warfare (around 30 years) rather than the covert war they have been carrying out since then on the suggestion of the then junior officer Sten, who is now the Arishok. From that point of view, it is perfectly true that Dorian hasn't seen many fully armoured Qunari warriors in that time and it is also true when Iron Bull says if he should see them in full armour then he'd better run because they have resumed open warfare again. Now I also find it curious that Dorian had seen any Qunari warriors at all whilst in Tevinter because, as I say, they weren't at open war but the two countries were still officially at war, so any Qunari seen there would likely be attacked immediately. So he is probably referring to since he came down south because there it would be okay for a Qunari warrior to walk openly because there is an official truce between the Qun and the southern nations. Thus it would be an act of aggression and declaration of war for a Qunari warrior to don full armour and if asked to do so by their commanding officer they would realise that the peace was about to be officially broken.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 11, 2020 14:48:25 GMT
I wonder if that provides any insight into the wider philosophy of the Qun, the notion that you HAVE to go to war, because you put on your armour? It’s reminiscent of real-world cultures that ritualistically swear off “hard pants” unless they plan to go to the grocery store.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 11, 2020 15:05:34 GMT
Wait, what happened to vitaar? Oh for... there are any number of reasons a Qunari might wear armour that don't equate to "BioWare retconned vitaar". I swear, people just deliberately seek out things to complain about. Block me.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 11, 2020 15:11:00 GMT
I wonder if that provides any insight into the wider philosophy of the Qun, the notion that you HAVE to go to war, because you put on your armour? Yeah, I dismissed it at first as Bull being a smartass, but he might actually be serious. I think it serves two puposes: To explain why virtually every Qunari we've seen since DA2 has gone around shirtless And to demonstrate that Qunari don't do things by halves. Armor is for war, so when they put it on, it's ON! The stuff is not wasted on bandit control, or raiding, or insurgencies, but for large-scale formal wars.
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Sept 11, 2020 18:57:13 GMT
It could also be a method of discipline, or a way to control their bloodlust/savagery. In Warhammer 40k, the citizens of the Eldar that have walked the path of the warrior have to separate their bloodlust from their normal lives outside of war, as their uncontrolled emotions once brought ruin to their civilisation. They do this by associating all their violent impulses with their armour and war gear, so when they don their literal war mask (or helmet) those emotions come to the fore and they are ready for battle.
For a Qunari who has been taught since birth to be a violent weapon, they may have a similar practice to restrain their violent ways. Outside of war, they may be tasked with raids or defence, but they’re still people with emotions. When they don the armour they are unthinking weapons of the Qun. All other emotions and personality are pushed down, only the need to kill remains.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 11, 2020 19:04:32 GMT
It could also be a method of discipline, or a way to control their bloodlust/savagery. In Warhammer 40k, the citizens of the Eldar that have walked the path of the warrior have to separate their bloodlust from their normal lives outside of war, as their uncontrolled emotions once brought ruin to their civilisation. They do this by associating all their violent impulses with their armour and war gear, so when they don their literal war mask (or helmet) those emotions come to the fore and they are ready for battle. For a Qunari who has been taught since birth to be a violent weapon, they may have a similar practice to restrain their violent ways. Outside of war, they may be tasked with raids or defence, but they’re still people with emotions. When they don the armour they are unthinking weapons of the Qun. All other emotions and personality are pushed down, only the need to kill remains. plus this tracks with the commentary we've heard from the Qunari about the Tal-Vashoth, Kosith, and us regular folks.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 11, 2020 19:13:14 GMT
Here is a higher quality (and more complete) version of the "Action Shot" concept art. I remember you asking about what is going on with Mr. Speedy and I suggested haste. But I'm playing a dual wielding Rogue currently in DAO and the Momentum ability leaves a similar trail as what is in that screenshot.
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Post by Julilla on Sept 11, 2020 21:23:30 GMT
It’s reminiscent of real-world cultures that ritualistically swear off “hard pants” unless they plan to go to the grocery store. Now look, I'd hardly call my quarantine habits a "ritual".
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Post by biggydx on Sept 11, 2020 22:46:00 GMT
Yeah, I dismissed it at first as Bull being a smartass, but he might actually be serious. I think it serves two puposes: To explain why virtually every Qunari we've seen since DA2 has gone around shirtless And to demonstrate that Qunari don't do things by halves. Armor is for war, so when they put it on, it's ON! The stuff is not wasted on bandit control, or raiding, or insurgencies, but for large-scale formal wars. media.tenor.com/images/edd9e07a5e45cd96ed6ac07a79e79e4b/tenor.gif
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 11, 2020 22:51:32 GMT
God I cannot express how much I truly despise the trope of Race X just being "naturally warlike and bloodthirsty".
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 11, 2020 23:04:29 GMT
God I cannot express how much I truly despise the trope of Race X just being "naturally warlike and bloodthirsty". I think in this case it was a matter of the military wing of the Qunari being trained to be warlike and bloodthirsty from w/e point in childhood they are assigned the role. They do claim there's a natural warlike tendency, but honestly there are people irl who say the same things of us(not to mention express it in media), so I don't take that too much to heart.
I think its essentially propaganda on the part of the Qun to perpetuate its existence and justify the harsh controls they place on the populace, more than anything. Not that I doubt that most, if not all, of the leadership of the Qun truly believe it at this point. They do. I just think they're wrong.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 11, 2020 23:22:46 GMT
God I cannot express how much I truly despise the trope of Race X just being "naturally warlike and bloodthirsty". I think in this case it was a matter of the military wing of the Qunari being trained to be warlike and bloodthirsty from w/e point in childhood they are assigned the role. They do claim there's a natural warlike tendency, but honestly there are people irl who say the same things of us(not to mention express it in media), so I don't take that too much to heart.
I think its essentially propaganda on the part of the Qun to perpetuate its existence and justify the harsh controls they place on the populace, more than anything. Not that I doubt that most, if not all, of the leadership of the Qun truly believe it at this point. They do. I just think they're wrong.
I don't know who "us" is (gamers?) but my problem with it as a fantasy trope (aside from what it suggests about how we view people who are different from us) is that it's just incredibly fucking lazy and dumb. If BioWare can start doing more to show that it is in fact a misconception about the qunari, that would be nice. And just overall, I'm pretty over Dragon Age's whole "we USED to be traditional elves/orcs but then humans conquered us/someone wrote a book and now we're SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, pretty subversive and original, right guys?"
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 12, 2020 0:41:09 GMT
I think in this case it was a matter of the military wing of the Qunari being trained to be warlike and bloodthirsty from w/e point in childhood they are assigned the role. They do claim there's a natural warlike tendency, but honestly there are people irl who say the same things of us(not to mention express it in media), so I don't take that too much to heart.
I think its essentially propaganda on the part of the Qun to perpetuate its existence and justify the harsh controls they place on the populace, more than anything. Not that I doubt that most, if not all, of the leadership of the Qun truly believe it at this point. They do. I just think they're wrong.
I don't know who "us" is (gamers?) but my problem with it as a fantasy trope (aside from what it suggests about how we view people who are different from us) is that it's just incredibly fucking lazy and dumb. If BioWare can start doing more to show that it is in fact a misconception about the qunari, that would be nice. And just overall, I'm pretty over Dragon Age's whole "we USED to be traditional elves/orcs but then humans conquered us/someone wrote a book and now we're SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, pretty subversive and original, right guys?" "Us" meant humanity. Its a trope in a lot of media to go on about how warlike by nature humanity is. And some people like to go on about it in real life, too. I don't think that's all there is to people in real life and I don't think that necessarily has to be all there is to the qunari as a species in DA.
I think the Qun harps on their supposedly innate bloodthirstiness b/c that's what the Qun is designed to control and justifies itself with. If the qunari don't need the Qun to keep them in line, why would they keep it? Its a lie that's baked in to the philosophy to perpetuate itself.
Iron Bull's situation is a good supporting example. He was sincerely afraid that he'd just fall into bloodthirsty madness, for no reason, if he went Tal-Vashoth and left the Qun. He didn't come close. He was still bloodthirsty in battle, but no more or less than he'd always been. DA2 also gave us an example of a Tal Vashoth who could hold polite, coherent conversations and enter town without going on mad rampages.
And then we have an opposite example where Sten murders a family due to not being able to find his sword, for without his sword he was essentially outside the boundaries of his role in the qun and that terrified him enough to make him act completely irrationally. It was fear of being outside the Qun, not any actual reality of it, that drove him to act like a monster.
I think we've been shown time and again that the talking point of Qunari being inherently violent and needing the Qun for control is just a talking point to justify the Qun, not the reality of the situation.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 12, 2020 0:52:04 GMT
Now who's just looking for an excuse to complain
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 12, 2020 1:31:02 GMT
If BioWare can start doing more to show that it is in fact a misconception about the qunari, that would be nice. This is the main reason that I’m crossing my fingers that Axe Qunari is a farmer or craftsperson of some kind. Someone who just happens to know how to fight, not another soldier from the Antaam or spook from the Ben-Hassrath. Someone who’d be more representative of regular Qunari. It could even be interesting to see some other specialties among the tamassrans, other than rasaans. For example, what is a Qunari preschool teacher like?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 2:05:43 GMT
If BioWare can start doing more to show that it is in fact a misconception about the qunari, that would be nice. This is the main reason that I’m crossing my fingers that Axe Qunari is a farmer or craftsperson of some kind. Someone who just happens to know how to fight, not another soldier from the Antaam or spook from the Ben-Hassrath. Someone who’d be more representative of regular Qunari. It could even be interesting to see some other specialties among the tamassrans, other than rasaans. For example, what is a Qunari preschool teacher like?Just like their librarians …
Strict, stern, formidably large and … kinda horny.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 12, 2020 2:07:55 GMT
This is the main reason that I’m crossing my fingers that Axe Qunari is a farmer or craftsperson of some kind. Someone who just happens to know how to fight, not another soldier from the Antaam or spook from the Ben-Hassrath. Someone who’d be more representative of regular Qunari. It could even be interesting to see some other specialties among the tamassrans, other than rasaans. For example, what is a Qunari preschool teacher like?Strict, stern, formidably large and … Kinda horny.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 12, 2020 2:45:54 GMT
One thing that stood out is that she said the blonde girl in the pic below is a crow. She does look like she has crow-style armor.
Perhaps people are assuming too much about that armour. May be it is a style that is common in the north, that is associated with a particular specialism, rather than specifically Crow. Either that or the concept for the Crow companion changed a lot. After all there are various candidates that have been identified. If the fair haired woman is a Crow then what is the dark haired guy on the left? There is also the red haired lady in a mask that seems to scream Crow, although we have never seen a Crow in such a mask before. She is wielding a rapier, which would seem a suitably light-weight weapon for someone who tends to focus on stealth and speed. The fair haired woman seems to be a two-handed warrior. That doesn't seem to go with the concept art for the person taking a breather, which seems hinting at a Crow and has a curved sword and two daggers or the eight-person shot where the assassin type figure on the right, between gunlaw and tall guy, seems to have a rapier again.
So my initial reaction is that the fair haired figure is not a Crow but could be concept art for the PC in Crow-type armour. Perhaps the reason there are so many different people who look like crow assassins is because Crow is a background? Maybe the background options are different factions like Lady Insanity suggested in her video analysis? While I haven't watched it (and likely won't have a chance until tonight), here's Ashe's Trailer analysis... Factions like Crow, Siccari, etc? Magister in the distance: definitely the same person as the one in the marketplace image; is he the Big Bad of the Imperium or just some mid-level boss (like Samson)? Well, in Calpernia's short story Paying the Ferryman she isn't phased by Corypheus'appearance. "Under the hood she saw his eyes: one the color of dark amber, and the other mercilessly pale, set in a hideously scarred visage. But Calpernia had lived in Minrathous all her life. She’d seen magical deformity before, some of it self-inflicted."This indicates that Corypheus' weirdly tall and distorted appearance, while not necessarily common, is atleast not a rare sight in Minrathous. Not to a slave who works in a magisters house anyway. So the 3 unusually tall, stretched looking guys, reminiscent of a less ugly, less corrupted looking Corypheus, we see in the art might not necessarily be the same guy or important in of themselves so much as that's just the kind of thing you see in Tevinter. Perhaps what the magister sidereal looked like before they were corrupted by Blight?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 12, 2020 3:12:57 GMT
Now who's just looking for an excuse to complain Iakus, if you start complaining about shitty overused tropes based in racism and not 'retcons' that don't exist yet, I promise you'll never hear a cross word from me.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 12, 2020 3:23:42 GMT
Now who's just looking for an excuse to complain Iakus, if you start complaining about shitty overused tropes based in racism and not 'retcons' that don't exist yet, I promise you'll never hear a cross word from me. "Agree with everything I say and we'll get along fine" Well, I guess that IS how this place is run... Still haven't blocked me I see.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 12, 2020 4:03:18 GMT
I was kind of musing that the markeing campaign so far for this game has been kind of low key...maybe no duh but usually you have 'advertising the advertising' releasing trailers before the trailers, talking about how they are going to be at x event or announcing what is going to be going on where...but pretty much none of that for any of the three things they have actually done so far (mind you I think i do remember a LITTLE chatter before the game awards)
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 12, 2020 4:17:59 GMT
Perhaps people are assuming too much about that armour. May be it is a style that is common in the north, that is associated with a particular specialism, rather than specifically Crow. Either that or the concept for the Crow companion changed a lot. After all there are various candidates that have been identified. If the fair haired woman is a Crow then what is the dark haired guy on the left? There is also the red haired lady in a mask that seems to scream Crow, although we have never seen a Crow in such a mask before. She is wielding a rapier, which would seem a suitably light-weight weapon for someone who tends to focus on stealth and speed. The fair haired woman seems to be a two-handed warrior. That doesn't seem to go with the concept art for the person taking a breather, which seems hinting at a Crow and has a curved sword and two daggers or the eight-person shot where the assassin type figure on the right, between gunlaw and tall guy, seems to have a rapier again.
So my initial reaction is that the fair haired figure is not a Crow but could be concept art for the PC in Crow-type armour. Perhaps the reason there are so many different people who look like crow assassins is because Crow is a background? Maybe the background options are different factions like Lady Insanity suggested in her video analysis? While I haven't watched it (and likely won't have a chance until tonight), here's Ashe's Trailer analysis... Factions like Crow, Siccari, etc? As much as I'd like Origin stories to return, BW has come down pretty hard against the idea of them returning (for a number of reasons). So I imagine that would apply to having a choice of organizations to join as well. Never say never, but it's not something I'm holding out hope for. Yeah, I'm curious to see who the tall guy turns out to be. Is he a Magister? A new leader of the Venatori trying to mimic Corypheus? ...?
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 12, 2020 4:30:26 GMT
I was kind of musing that the markeing campaign so far for this game has been kind of low key...maybe no duh but usually you have 'advertising the advertising' releasing trailers before the trailers, talking about how they are going to be at x event or announcing what is going to be going on where...but pretty much none of that for any of the three things they have actually done so far (mind you I think i do remember a LITTLE chatter before the game awards) I admit I was a bit surprised I hadn't heard even a whisper they were going to drop a trailer at Gamescom. The only reason I was even watching the stream was for Doom! Even a teeny, tiny, vague heads-up - "Hey BW fans, you might want to tune into...". I accept PMs too!
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 12, 2020 6:58:05 GMT
I remember even the game awards hype was just a tweet a month or so beforehand saying "Looking forward to next month" or something. I think on or around N7 day. So we didn't know if it was DA or ME or what. Got the hype train going enough, though. lol Maybe they don't think they need to knock themselves out advertising at the moment, since it was just a bunch of concept art? The hardcore fans who will care are gonna find it anyway.
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