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Post by colfoley on Sept 12, 2020 7:12:53 GMT
I remember even the game awards hype was just a tweet a month or so beforehand saying "Looking forward to next month" or something. I think on or around N7 day. So we didn't know if it was DA or ME or what. Got the hype train going enough, though. lol Maybe they don't think they need to knock themselves out advertising at the moment, since it was just a bunch of concept art? The hardcore fans who will care are gonna find it anyway. I mean while this is a pretty safe bet that this game is in development it does not have a name yet even. I imagine that IF (I'd put good money on it, but I could be wrong) we get a full announce reveal at TGAs they'll announce it before hand...or at least tease it. Likewise, again if I am right, once the game has been fully announced with title and the works I think they'll be a lot more forthcoming in 'advertising their advertising'.
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Post by TabithaTH on Sept 12, 2020 8:54:28 GMT
I was kind of musing that the markeing campaign so far for this game has been kind of low key...maybe no duh but usually you have 'advertising the advertising' releasing trailers before the trailers, talking about how they are going to be at x event or announcing what is going to be going on where...but pretty much none of that for any of the three things they have actually done so far (mind you I think i do remember a LITTLE chatter before the game awards) I think it’s because it’s too early to advertise to the general public. It’s aimed at the hardcore fans, so they keep it lowkey. Just enough to pique our interest, but not enough to garner too much attention and risk backlash.
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 12, 2020 9:15:04 GMT
I remember even the game awards hype was just a tweet a month or so beforehand saying "Looking forward to next month" or something. I think on or around N7 day. So we didn't know if it was DA or ME or what. Got the hype train going enough, though. lol Maybe they don't think they need to knock themselves out advertising at the moment, since it was just a bunch of concept art? The hardcore fans who will care are gonna find it anyway. I mean while this is a pretty safe bet that this game is in development it does not have a name yet even. I imagine that IF (I'd put good money on it, but I could be wrong) we get a full announce reveal at TGAs they'll announce it before hand...or at least tease it. Likewise, again if I am right, once the game has been fully announced with title and the works I think they'll be a lot more forthcoming in 'advertising their advertising'. I agree with your points. I also guess that another reason for not really advertising stuff, at the moment, is that people would expect something like a full-fledged trailer, and even if they’d temper expectations, people would still end up disappointed. I mean, there are people that were disappointed for what they shown even without advertising. I’d say this kind of reaction would’ve been bigger if they told us something would be shown. What I do hope is that they won’t announce the game with an announcement trailer and title, and then not show anything for months. It’s what happened with Andromeda, and while not in the same timeline, with DAI, after the GI coverage and the PAX east demo. Until E3 they shown very little and changed their strategy in releasing informations, most likely due to some problem in development.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 12, 2020 10:09:53 GMT
God I cannot express how much I truly despise the trope of Race X just being "naturally warlike and bloodthirsty". I think its essentially propaganda on the part of the Qun to perpetuate its existence and justify the harsh controls they place on the populace, more than anything. Not that I doubt that most, if not all, of the leadership of the Qun truly believe it at this point. They do. I just think they're wrong. I agree with the second point Panda. It is not the writers who are saying that Race X are naturally warlike but their own religion that perpetuates the myth in order to control the populace. Then when individuals rebel and turn Tal'Vashoth, particularly if they start to actively attack the civilisation that oppressed them, the priesthood use this as evidence that without the Qun they will become savages. They scare their people with the idea they will become monsters without the priesthood to control them, just as the Chantry does with mages. This idea is reinforced by your experience with Iron Bull. He has been brain washed into thinking that if he turns Tal'Vashoth he will become a total savage but you encourage him to become Tal'Vashoth and guess what he stays exactly the same as he always was. Likewise you can play your Vashoth Inquisitor as a generally thoughtful, diplomatic and essentially unaggressive person unless their life is threatened. Also, quite clearly not all those who are racially qunari are aggressive warrior types or you would never have anyone to do the ordinary tasks of farming, fishing, manufacturing, etc. Not all these roles are occupied by females of the race. However, most of the defections from the Qun tend to be those from the warrior ranks because they are put under greater stress through being in the military and also have more exposure to the world outside the Qun to make them doubt its doctrine.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 12, 2020 10:19:47 GMT
If BioWare can start doing more to show that it is in fact a misconception about the qunari, that would be nice.
They have, repeatedly, but they also leave players to work things out for themselves. I'm surprised you needed them to do more to make you realise this. Racially the qunari are not inherently violent, although I suppose there is an argument that their selective breeding program could have wished to perpetuate these traits in order to produce better warriors.
However, I feel there has been no misconception about the Qun, the power that controls this race. What may come to light in the future is how the priesthood twisted the words of the original Koslun about how society should be managed to be fair to all, just as the Chantry twisted the words of Andraste to justify their persecution of mages.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 12, 2020 10:37:57 GMT
This is the main reason that I’m crossing my fingers that Axe Qunari is a farmer or craftsperson of some kind. Someone who just happens to know how to fight, not another soldier from the Antaam or spook from the Ben-Hassrath. Someone who’d be more representative of regular Qunari. The whole point is that if she were actually still in the Qun then she would not be outside Par Vollen as a farmer or craftsperson because they rarely leave there, except perhaps as auxiliaries to back up the military. The Seer of Kont-aar said you cannot truly know the Qun until you have seen its society function as a whole rather than simply the members of the army or Ben'Hassrath that we are familiar with. Those outside the Qun may believe the race is aggressive and savage because their only experience of them is when being attacked either by the Antaam or Tal'Vashoth who have turned bandit or mercenary. Now the lady qunari that we see is not necessarily going to conflict with that perception because if she has become proficient in fighting then she must either be a Tal'Vashoth who has rebelled against the more passive role in society to which she was assigned or she was trained as a Ben'Hassrath or other member of the priesthood, who has been trained to fight as part of their role. Of course that doesn't mean she need be portrayed as bloodthirsty and savage and can still be thoughtful and measured in her approach to violence.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 12, 2020 10:47:32 GMT
Well, in Calpernia's short story Paying the Ferryman she isn't phased by Corypheus'appearance. "Under the hood she saw his eyes: one the color of dark amber, and the other mercilessly pale, set in a hideously scarred visage. But Calpernia had lived in Minrathous all her life. She’d seen magical deformity before, some of it self-inflicted."This indicates that Corypheus' weirdly tall and distorted appearance, while not necessarily common, is atleast not a rare sight in Minrathous. Not to a slave who works in a magisters house anyway. So the 3 unusually tall, stretched looking guys, reminiscent of a less ugly, less corrupted looking Corypheus, we see in the art might not necessarily be the same guy or important in of themselves so much as that's just the kind of thing you see in Tevinter. Perhaps what the magister sidereal looked like before they were corrupted by Blight? I must admit I'd forgotten about this. Clearly different Magisters may have different ideas about what constitutes "perfection". Experimenting with magical enhancement to make you appear more intimidating to the lesser classes may be quite common. Also I recall that extended use of ordinary lyrium can have effects on the mind but may be it can affect the body as well. Blood magic can certainly be used to alter appearance if we go by Tevinter Nights.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 12, 2020 11:09:01 GMT
I mean while this is a pretty safe bet that this game is in development it does not have a name yet even. I imagine that IF (I'd put good money on it, but I could be wrong) we get a full announce reveal at TGAs they'll announce it before hand...or at least tease it. Likewise, again if I am right, once the game has been fully announced with title and the works I think they'll be a lot more forthcoming in 'advertising their advertising'. I agree with your points. I also guess that another reason for not really advertising stuff, at the moment, is that people would expect something like a full-fledged trailer, and even if they’d temper expectations, people would still end up disappointed. I mean, there are people that were disappointed for what they shown even without advertising. I’d say this kind of reaction would’ve been bigger if they told us something would be shown. What I do hope is that they won’t announce the game with an announcement trailer and title, and then not show anything for months. It’s what happened with Andromeda, and while not in the same timeline, with DAI, after the GI coverage and the PAX east demo. Until E3 they shown very little and changed their strategy in releasing informations, most likely due to some problem in development. that is kind of the maddening thing right now because they are bound to hit that point anyways because of how they are marketing the game already. Now this is all supposition and granted with it being so long since Inquisition they may feel they have no choice. But we got something now... next thing could be the VGAs then after that...EA play? I imagine that could be the start of the big marketing push but even then we are talking about Aprill 22 at the earliest, sometime 23 at the latest.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 12, 2020 11:10:10 GMT
If BioWare can start doing more to show that it is in fact a misconception about the qunari, that would be nice.
They have, repeatedly, but they also leave players to work things out for themselves. I'm surprised you needed them to do more to make you realise this.
I haven't "realised" it because when it comes to BioWare, it's impossible to know if any actual insightful thing they say in their work was deliberate or sheer coincidence.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 12, 2020 11:12:27 GMT
They have, repeatedly, but they also leave players to work things out for themselves. I'm surprised you needed them to do more to make you realise this.
I haven't "realised" it because when it comes to BioWare, it's impossible to know if any actual insightful thing they say in their work was deliberate or sheer coincidence. isn't that true of all fiction?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 12, 2020 11:40:55 GMT
I haven't "realised" it because when it comes to BioWare, it's impossible to know if any actual insightful thing they say in their work was deliberate or sheer coincidence. isn't that true of all fiction? Well an author/group can express their supposed intention and I can decide for myself if they succeeded. JK Rowling, for instance, is VERY vocal about what she intended Harry Potter to say. But I don't have to agree with her. I want the Qunari to not be mindless and bloodthirsty savages who need fascism to keep their minds right. Sure, there are hints that support my wants, but nothing really concrete. We still lack a lot of detail about the Qunari, and I don't really accept mere "hints". I would never accept Dragon Age merely "hinting" that characters were gay, and expecting me to consider myself represented. "Just HEADCANON that you and Alistair are fucking". No. No I shan't. Is Anora smart or stupid? Every character in the game SAYS she's smart, but she BEHAVES stupidly. Same goes for Celene. Are Cerberus supposed to be based on white supremacists? Well they sure act like white supremacists, and they have all the same talking points ("we don't HATE aliens, we just want a pure Human ethno-galaxy"), but I can't tell if BioWare was writing with the intent that I see through their paper-thin bullshit arguments, or if they think that those ARE good arguments. A lot of people on the forums seem to think Cerberus was 100% correct. It's concerning, not gonna lie. Not to mention that BioWare LOVE being deliberately obfuscatory, because their whole thing is trying to make multiple opposing viewpoints seem equally valid. In fact, I don't recall any staff at BioWare ever piping up and saying what side they take on any in-game issue or why. And that works out great for them, because I'll never know for sure if any given thing was sloppy or intentional, though I tend to lean towards "sloppy" most of the time. So yeah, I'm not sure what BioWare is trying to say with the Qunari. I would like AlleluiaElizabeth and Gervaise to be right, because the alternative would suck butt.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 12, 2020 12:47:13 GMT
The whole point is that if she were actually still in the Qun then she would not be outside Par Vollen as a farmer or craftsperson because they rarely leave there, except perhaps as auxiliaries to back up the military. Sure, but we party up with rarities and exceptions all the time. As far as fighting capabilities, I suspect the recent Venatori activity might have shifted things. Given that the Qunari were willing to (temporarily) ally with the Inquisition to deal with them, I’m guessing they were causing a lot more trouble in northern Thedas than we saw in southern Thedas. If the Arigena’s workers were all/mostly sitting ducks, they’d be an easy target for Vints with a grudge. Not to mention that farmers would occasionally be dealing with wild animals. “30-50 wild hogs” is a bit of a meme, but shit like that does sometimes interfere with crops and herds, even if the threat to people is exaggerated. I assume every Qunari going into those roles learns some kind of archery skill, and maybe more if Tevinter is being bothersome. I agree that craftsperson is a little more of a stretch, though. That possibility’s just wishful thinking on my part.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 12, 2020 13:09:05 GMT
The whole point is that if she were actually still in the Qun then she would not be outside Par Vollen as a farmer or craftsperson because they rarely leave there, except perhaps as auxiliaries to back up the military. Sure, but we party up with rarities and exceptions all the time. As far as fighting capabilities, I suspect the recent Venatori activity might have shifted things. Given that the Qunari were willing to (temporarily) ally with the Inquisition to deal with them, I’m guessing they were causing a lot more trouble in northern Thedas than we saw in southern Thedas. If the Arigena’s workers were all/mostly sitting ducks, they’d be an easy target for Vints with a grudge. Not to mention that farmers would occasionally be dealing with wild animals. “30-50 wild hogs” is a bit of a meme, but shit like that does sometimes interfere with crops and herds, even if the threat to people is exaggerated. I assume every Qunari going into those roles learns some kind of archery skill, and maybe more if Tevinter is being bothersome. I agree that craftsperson is a little more of a stretch, though. That possibility’s just wishful thinking on my part. Qunari with an endless supply of enormous vases to smash over enemy heads.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 12, 2020 13:29:58 GMT
OH SHIT MAYBE THAT'S WHAT THE HELMET ACTUALLY IS.
A WAR-VASE.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 12, 2020 14:09:46 GMT
As far as fighting capabilities, I suspect the recent Venatori activity might have shifted things. Given that the Qunari were willing to (temporarily) ally with the Inquisition to deal with them, I’m guessing they were causing a lot more trouble in northern Thedas than we saw in southern Thedas. If the Arigena’s workers were all/mostly sitting ducks, they’d be an easy target for Vints with a grudge. I have to admit that civilians on Seheron would probably need to be a bit more capable of defending themselves because of the threat from various factions. Iron Bull says the Fog People are decent enough about not attacking civilian targets but we know the Tal'Vashoth attacked that school that sent him crazy with rage, although I seem to recall that was with poison rather than physical attack, but even so clearly they are prepared to do that. Then there are the Tevinter sicarri that wage a war of shadows on Seheron, creating an atmosphere of fear among the population. So I can see how if the Qunari lady was from Seheron she might have become rather efficient at defending herself from whatever threats she encountered. I do think her background would more probably be having come from there rather than Par Vollen but she could simply be well travelled because she is seen as so capable.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 12, 2020 14:20:29 GMT
I was kind of musing that the markeing campaign so far for this game has been kind of low key... Snip
Hm.. the game is no where near pre-alpha, imo. Still in the concept phase. ... building cinematics to see f the concept works.. tearing it down, making adjustments.. starting anew...
It's way too early for marketing... An official trailer means the game is about 18 months away. Until then, it's "keep them interested" phase.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 12, 2020 14:32:25 GMT
I was kind of musing that the markeing campaign so far for this game has been kind of low key...maybe no duh but usually you have 'advertising the advertising' releasing trailers before the trailers, talking about how they are going to be at x event or announcing what is going to be going on where...but pretty much none of that for any of the three things they have actually done so far (mind you I think i do remember a LITTLE chatter before the game awards) Snip It’s aimed at the hardcore fans, so they keep it lowkey. Just enough to pique our interest, but not enough to garner too much attention and risk backlash.
Probably true and it does not cost Bio any money.
However, the number of hard core fans doesn't justify the game cost. Bio needs to reach a wider audience. I'm kinda interested in the official marketing campaign, whenever it starts. I hope to garner a hint or two as to how desperate Bio is to sell DA4. ... sort of proof it's a make or break game for them.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 12, 2020 17:38:21 GMT
OH SHIT MAYBE THAT'S WHAT THE HELMET ACTUALLY IS. A WAR-VASE. Assault with a deadly weapon!
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 12, 2020 20:18:32 GMT
OH SHIT MAYBE THAT'S WHAT THE HELMET ACTUALLY IS. A WAR-VASE. Assault with a deadly weapon! I thought of it before... but now... even if you do not have the correct avatar anymore... I wonder what's in the war vase? Flammable grease? Lyrium dust? (the Dworkin type) Bees?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 12, 2020 20:18:40 GMT
sort of proof it's a make or break game for them. Internally, things are very serious and have been since Anthem launched and was received ... as well as it was. The Kotaku articles was very damning and Casey is ... feeling it. As far as I am aware. Management seems to take respite on the fact that the game is still a ways off, but I hope that respite doesn't turn to complacency, otherwise, we'll be seeing more Bioware Magic™ in the future. I'm not going to fault them for catching their breath, though. It is good for the higher ups as well as the lower level staff. Plus the lockdown gives them an excuse to take things slow and that's a good thing. For their mental health.
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Post by sandwichtern on Sept 12, 2020 22:16:54 GMT
*snip* Assault with a deadly weapon! I thought of it before... but now... even if you do not have the correct avatar anymore... I wonder what's in the war vase? Flammable grease? Lyrium dust? (the Dworkin type) Bees? I'd imagine something along those ingredients we used for building bombs and exploding flasks in DA:O. Speaking of which, does anyone remember the unscrupulous merchant in Lothering who sold fire and freeze bomb recipes to our wardens? I've always thought he'd have no compunctions for selling those recipes to children too. I'd wager that one the favourite mischiefs among the children in Lothering was to build fire and freeze bombs, and use them on unsuspecting (and unsupervised) bales of hay and whatnots. Because of this headcanon, every time I read the verses "And so is the Golden City blackened With each step you take in my Hall. Marvel at perfection, for it is fleeting. You have brought Sin to Heaven And doom upon all the world."I think of a flock of Lothering chickens staring forlornly the remains of their firebombed dungheap.
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Post by Solas on Sept 13, 2020 5:32:58 GMT
thinkin about Skeleton and on if the he's Audric stuff, the dual aspects of Curiosity/Anger, etc and got to thinking for whatever reason of the Rage demon that possessed Scout Grandin in JoH. It expresses a wish to protect the Inquisition's people and fight its enemies, and you can choose to kill the demon or allow the entity to serve. Rage demons are usually simpler and less devious than other kinds of demons, and this was obviously a different entity to Audric's Anger, but the Scout Grandin one was a bit more complex and interesting than the ones we usually encounter. We've explored stuff like Compassion/Despair, Wisdom/Pride and Justice/Vengeance. Curiosity/Anger would be pretty interesting too.
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 13, 2020 14:12:24 GMT
thinkin about Skeleton and on if the he's Audric stuff, the dual aspects of Curiosity/Anger, etc and got to thinking for whatever reason of the Rage demon that possessed Scout Grandin in JoH. It expresses a wish to protect the Inquisition's people and fight its enemies, and you can choose to kill the demon or allow the entity to serve. Rage demons are usually simpler and less devious than other kinds of demons, and this was obviously a different entity to Audric's Anger, but the Scout Grandin one was a bit more complex and interesting than the ones we usually encounter. We've explored stuff like Compassion/Despair, Wisdom/Pride and Justice/Vengeance. Curiosity/Anger would be pretty interesting too. I want to see more of that spirit partially because Curiosity/Anger is such a tidy combo, linguistically. I think it’s the only pair where you could call it something like “Pique” and it would be evenly balanced between the positive and negative aspects. You wouldn’t need to have a separate spirit name and demon name. Besides, Architecture Nerd is exactly the kind of person I want on my team. Yes, please do explain the history/construction of all the buildings to me, the player, even if it’s old news to my PC. I want all the northern Thedosian lore. Plus, probably knows some fun secrets like “this building should have a hidden exit in the catacombs” or “this wall doesn’t match the style of the rest of the house, it was added recently.”
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Oct 27, 2024 15:24:18 GMT
30,316
gervaise21
12,822
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 13, 2020 16:41:37 GMT
We've explored stuff like Compassion/Despair, Wisdom/Pride and Justice/Vengeance. Curiosity/Anger would be pretty interesting too. I find it odd how they have paired these aspects up though. Justice/Vengeance I can understand; it is easy enough for justice to tip over into vengeance, although I still have my doubts about the way they dealt with this with Anders because the majority of the time he isn't vengeance, just a very intense focus on justice. However, compassion and despair don't really go together; that should be hope and despair and presumably there is much more despair in Thedas than hope which is why the latter spirits have not yet been encountered. Wisdom and pride are not really opposites as such. A person can be unduly prideful about how much they know and expect everyone to listen to them but why would making a Wisdom spirit act against its nature turn it into a pride demon? Why not a demon of ignorance or foolishness, particularly since that is what the mages were guilty of in harnessing it in that way? As for curiosity and anger, that is something I do not understand at all. It is like pairing Purpose with Desire. The opposite of curiosity and purpose is surely Sloth? The opposite of rage is calm. So really it is impossible to know what a particular spirit will become or what a demon once was because there is no pattern to it. If it is simply a case of the attribute being felt too strongly, so purpose becomes desire if you do this, how do you explain curiosity becoming rage?
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Dec 17, 2022 14:24:44 GMT
413
ellehaym
244
Nov 30, 2016 22:25:30 GMT
November 2016
ellehaym
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Post by ellehaym on Sept 13, 2020 17:28:40 GMT
thinkin about Skeleton and on if the he's Audric stuff, the dual aspects of Curiosity/Anger, etc and got to thinking for whatever reason of the Rage demon that possessed Scout Grandin in JoH. It expresses a wish to protect the Inquisition's people and fight its enemies, and you can choose to kill the demon or allow the entity to serve. Rage demons are usually simpler and less devious than other kinds of demons, and this was obviously a different entity to Audric's Anger, but the Scout Grandin one was a bit more complex and interesting than the ones we usually encounter. We've explored stuff like Compassion/Despair, Wisdom/Pride and Justice/Vengeance. Curiosity/Anger would be pretty interesting too. I remember David Gaider talking about how a Rage demon that focuses on Retribution can be especially powerful due to how complex Retribution is compared to simple anger. Maybe the rage demon the possessed the scout focused on Retribution?
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