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Post by arvaarad on Sept 18, 2020 0:59:43 GMT
I know. I just remembered the idea of some that a female Magister (Magistra?) Sidereal could have been the first broodmother. Though I now I have to think of an overemphasised "lady" part, i.e. an extremely polite blight magistra who invites us for tea to discuss the ramifications of killing all Old Gods or something like that. Since darkspawn likely existed before the magisters breached the Fade, broodmothers probably already existed as well. Maybe a Ghilan'nain whoopsie? I get the distinct impression that Ghilan’nain doesn’t have any whoopsies. Every peek we’ve seen of her screams mad scientist. If she made broodmothers, I have a feeling she’d cackle manaically and yes-and them into something even scarier.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 18, 2020 1:17:10 GMT
Is there a case of a female ghoul existing? And by ghoul in this context, I mean someone connected to and obeying the darkspawn hivemind. Not just someone tainted, but someone who is at the end stage of that process. Maybe I'm just blanking, but I can't recall one.
All darkspawn besides broodmothers seem "male", but then the magisters aren't *really* darkspawn. Or at least, they were human at some point, so they already don't adhere to the normal rules of darkspawn. I'm just trying to figure out if we even can have a female darkspawn/ghoul that isn't a broodmother? Velanna's sister?
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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2020 1:27:13 GMT
Imean I think that was part of the point though isn't? Broodmothers ARE hyper darkspawnified Female Ghouls. But yes Vellanna's sister and also the one who relayed the poem to us in Origins was likely a ghoul (at least I have always assumed she was one).
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 18, 2020 2:09:07 GMT
I know. I just remembered the idea of some that a female Magister (Magistra?) Sidereal could have been the first broodmother. Though I now I have to think of an overemphasised "lady" part, i.e. an extremely polite blight magistra who invites us for tea to discuss the ramifications of killing all Old Gods or something like that.
Since darkspawn likely existed before the magisters breached the Fade, broodmothers probably already existed as well. Maybe a Ghilan'nain whoopsie?
Ah, right. At time even I get lost in "what the Chantry told us". That has me question what kind of creature Ghilan'nain crossed with a female. Have to think of something Cekorax. Or was there another tentacle monster I missed.
As for female ghouls... Yes, we got Hespith and Seranni. What about Utha? Though since she was around the Architect and a Grey Warden if I recall right, she might not count.
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Post by dawnold on Sept 18, 2020 2:40:54 GMT
Yes I remember the eyewitness journal in Dai about a darkspawn magister that consumed another darkspawn magister. Maybe the consumer is a female magister and she cannibalized the male... similar to certain animals in our world (spiders, mantis). I would like to see that in da4 if possible.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 18, 2020 3:18:39 GMT
Is there a case of a female ghoul existing? And by ghoul in this context, I mean someone connected to and obeying the darkspawn hivemind. Not just someone tainted, but someone who is at the end stage of that process. Maybe I'm just blanking, but I can't recall one.
All darkspawn besides broodmothers seem "male", but then the magisters aren't *really* darkspawn. Or at least, they were human at some point, so they already don't adhere to the normal rules of darkspawn. I'm just trying to figure out if we even can have a female darkspawn/ghoul that isn't a broodmother? I’d say Adria would count. dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Adria
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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2020 4:10:07 GMT
Yes I remember the eyewitness journal in Dai about a darkspawn magister that consumed another darkspawn magister. Maybe the consumer is a female magister and she cannibalized the male... similar to certain animals in our world (spiders, mantis). I would like to see that in da4 if possible. I woouldn't! we can hear it just fine but this franchise has already given us enough body horror.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 18, 2020 12:36:43 GMT
I know. I just remembered the idea of some that a female Magister (Magistra?) Sidereal could have been the first broodmother. Though I now I have to think of an overemphasised "lady" part, i.e. an extremely polite blight magistra who invites us for tea to discuss the ramifications of killing all Old Gods or something like that.
Since darkspawn likely existed before the magisters breached the Fade, broodmothers probably already existed as well. Maybe a Ghilan'nain whoopsie?
Well, we know the Blight likely existed before. I’m of the view that darkspawn as we know them still might have originated with the magisters sidereal. I’m actually kinda convinced that the emissaries being redesigned to greater resemble the Architect and Corypheus is no accident, and they have actually been quietly retconned into a separate breed of darkspawn likely originating from a single magister broodmother. Hence their rarity and unique intelligence. all theory though.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 18, 2020 12:49:17 GMT
Lol, I've never understood this thing about a "First" Broodmother. Why would the first be any different from a regular one?
"We have to find the FIRST chicken. I bet it laid GOLDEN eggs, for some reason!" Lol
If there even was a "first" broodmother, it might well have been killed or died in a perfectly mundane tunnel collapse or something. And even if it were still alive, why would killing it do anything at this point? It's not the Chitauri mothership, or some... less embarrasingly outdated film reference.
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Post by Gwydden on Sept 18, 2020 13:10:55 GMT
"We have to find the FIRST chicken. I bet it laid GOLDEN eggs, for some reason!" Lol Surely you mean we must find the first EGG, which no doubt will produce a crispy golden chicken?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 18, 2020 13:16:21 GMT
"We have to find the FIRST chicken. I bet it laid GOLDEN eggs, for some reason!" Lol Surely you mean we must find the first EGG, which no doubt will produce a crispy golden chicken? Yes, when we apply the seven secret spices of the Ker'Nol.
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Post by biggydx on Sept 18, 2020 14:25:56 GMT
Since darkspawn likely existed before the magisters breached the Fade, broodmothers probably already existed as well. Maybe a Ghilan'nain whoopsie? I get the distinct impression that Ghilan’nain doesn’t have any whoopsies. Every peek we’ve seen of her screams mad scientist. If she made broodmothers, I have a feeling she’d cackle manaically and yes-and them into something even scarier. Cthulu looking sea creatures seems to suggest she had a way of going about things...
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 18, 2020 14:50:58 GMT
Lol, I've never understood this thing about a "First" Broodmother. Why would the first be any different from a regular one? "We have to find the FIRST chicken. I bet it laid GOLDEN eggs, for some reason!" Lol If there even was a "first" broodmother, it might well have been killed or died in a perfectly mundane tunnel collapse or something. And even if it were still alive, why would killing it do anything at this point? It's not the Chitauri mothership, or some... less embarrasingly outdated film reference. I think people are mostly curious about the Blight and how it began and first specimen could provide an answer? Perhaps they were made in the Brine pools from 'Horrors of Hormak'?
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 18, 2020 17:21:52 GMT
I think people are mostly curious about the Blight and how it began and first specimen could provide an answer? Also if we know how it began, there is a chance we can find a way to end it without nuking the current world. However, I think it is going to be more than just Broodmother Prime, unless she happens to be a little bit more significant than the first broodmother, like for example the animated corpse of Mythal or something. I can't get over the appearance of the idol, which to be honest could be depicting some sort of birthing horror and there is clearly a tentacle seemingly embracing them all. Mythal is known as the all mother of the elven race as well as the protector and judge. So if Ghilan'nain with some of the others did something horrific to her body, that could well have created the first broodmother.
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Post by Julilla on Sept 18, 2020 18:00:27 GMT
like for example the animated corpse of Mythal or something. I can't get over the appearance of the idol, which to be honest could be depicting some sort of birthing horror and there is clearly a tentacle seemingly embracing them all. Mythal is known as the all mother of the elven race as well as the protector and judge. So if Ghilan'nain with some of the others did something horrific to her body, that could well have created the first broodmother. Whu....whaaat? Whyyyyyy???
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 18, 2020 19:26:17 GMT
I think people are mostly curious about the Blight and how it began and first specimen could provide an answer? Also if we know how it began, there is a chance we can find a way to end it without nuking the current world. However, I think it is going to be more than just Broodmother Prime, unless she happens to be a little bit more significant than the first broodmother, like for example the animated corpse of Mythal or something. I can't get over the appearance of the idol, which to be honest could be depicting some sort of birthing horror and there is clearly a tentacle seemingly embracing them all. Mythal is known as the all mother of the elven race as well as the protector and judge. So if Ghilan'nain with some of the others did something horrific to her body, that could well have created the first broodmother. Would explain the line "How the world was betrayed!" if her murder not only was a betrayal to her, but also the stepping stone to the start of the Darkspawn.
like for example the animated corpse of Mythal or something. I can't get over the appearance of the idol, which to be honest could be depicting some sort of birthing horror and there is clearly a tentacle seemingly embracing them all. Mythal is known as the all mother of the elven race as well as the protector and judge. So if Ghilan'nain with some of the others did something horrific to her body, that could well have created the first broodmother. Whu....whaaat? Whyyyyyy??? B/c Ghilly is a nutjob and her girlfriend might be an enabling psychopath? lol
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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2020 19:28:08 GMT
Also if we know how it began, there is a chance we can find a way to end it without nuking the current world. However, I think it is going to be more than just Broodmother Prime, unless she happens to be a little bit more significant than the first broodmother, like for example the animated corpse of Mythal or something. I can't get over the appearance of the idol, which to be honest could be depicting some sort of birthing horror and there is clearly a tentacle seemingly embracing them all. Mythal is known as the all mother of the elven race as well as the protector and judge. So if Ghilan'nain with some of the others did something horrific to her body, that could well have created the first broodmother. Would explain the line "How the world was betrayed!" if her murder not only was a betrayal to her, but also the stepping stone to the start of the Darkspawn.
Whu....whaaat? Whyyyyyy??? B/c Ghilly is a nutjob and her girlfriend might be an enabling psychopath? lol ugh I hate how well this theory works.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 18, 2020 19:38:53 GMT
*sigh* Another thing ruined by just “because ancient elves”.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 18, 2020 19:42:32 GMT
Would explain the line "How the world was betrayed!" if her murder not only was a betrayal to her, but also the stepping stone to the start of the Darkspawn.
Her death definitely allowed something bad to happen that would otherwise have been prevented. I suppose you could argue her death led to Solas raising the Veil and that betrayed the world but I think it is far more than that. The only thing I can think of that is bad enough to be seen as a betrayal of the world is the Blight. Flemeth was opposed to the Blight. She helped the Grey Wardens and whilst she had her own reasons for this, nevertheless I think her opposition to the Blight was genuine. She said it was a threat to them all. Something bad happened deep underground, something so horrific that Solas sealed it away and then moved against the Evanuris because of it. Now we know that Ghilan'nain had her laboratories underground there is a very good chance she had something to do with it.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 18, 2020 19:55:51 GMT
*sigh* Another thing ruined by just “because ancient elves”. I don't see how the blight is ruined by this theory? Besides, we're technically just talking about the origin of the Darkspawn.
The origin of the taint itself might not be the elves, but the titans, still. Or some heretofore unforeseen, eldritch abomination. They could be two separate things.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 18, 2020 20:46:52 GMT
*sigh* Another thing ruined by just “because ancient elves”. Apart from what AlleluiaElizabeth said, I honestly cannot get why people are complaining so much about this, Hanako Ikezawa and LadyofNemesis . Dominant precursor cultures influence things all the time. In RL, we have "ancient Grome". Literally anything is better than trying to pull "It was the Maker!!! Bow to him, b*tch, and don't forget to take your clothes off."
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 18, 2020 20:48:01 GMT
*sigh* Another thing ruined by just “because ancient elves”. I don't see how the blight is ruined by this theory? Besides, we're technically just talking about the origin of the Darkspawn.
The origin of the taint itself might not be the elves, but the titans, still. Or some heretofore unforeseen, eldritch abomination. They could be two separate things.
I would go so far as to say it’s almost certainly not the elves who invented the Blight, though they may have modified it (or tried to). The “Bard” calls Solas a young mage who found old magic. Andruil is said to have hunted monsters in the Void, and used the things she found there to make her armor. And both the Empty Ones and the elven language put the origin of the Blight in the Void. It seems pretty clear that the Void is separate from the ancient elves, even dangerous to them, and that’s where the Blight originated. My guess at the timeline is something like this: 1. Ancient elves show up in the waking world feeling conquesty, start some shit with the titans. 2. During the war, or maybe as a consequence of attacking the literal earth itself something creates or unearths a way to the Void. 3. Void is full of Cekorax-type things and worse. Classic Old God stuff. Maybe these are the Forgotten Ones? They seem much more “forgotten” than titans. 4. Andruil hunts there, grabs some crazy eldritch horror magic that’s ancient even compared to her — the Blight, or a precursor to it. Sees its potential as a weapon that will raze the earth while leaving spirits untouched. 5. Possibly Ghilan’nain gets involved. Maybe some modifications are made to whatever was found in the Void. It’s still unknowable alien space magic though, so they’re not super in control. The evanuris (archdemons?) have a plan to set their (“their”) weapon loose on Thedas, knowing they can just pop back into the Fade once it’s up and running. Besides being a jerk move, they’re playing with forces beyond their ken. 6. The Veil is created. “He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap.” Wolf proceeds to flip his absolute shit every time he sees modern people messing with Voidstuff. And also doesn’t 100% know its limitations re: Corypheus, because it’s weird and ancient magic even to him. Based on purely circumstantial evidence, I believe the Executors are potentially helping the Void monsters. The constant references to strange patterns and the smell of the sea sounds extremely lovecraftian. Perhaps Ghilan’nain’s saltwater experiments are also cribbed from Void creatures, just as Tevinter would copy off elven magic in their turn.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 18, 2020 20:51:55 GMT
*sigh* Another thing ruined by just “because ancient elves”. Apart from what AlleluiaElizabeth said, I honestly cannot get why people are complaining so much about this, Hanako Ikezawa and LadyofNemesis . Dominant precursor cultures influence things all the time. In RL, we have "ancient Grome". Literally anything is better than trying to pull "It was the Maker!!! Bow to him, b*tch, and don't forget to take your clothes off." yeah ok...that last part made me laugh that's a reference toward the infamous Urn of Sacred Ashes thing right? Hm...I think this time around my Tabris will in fact not get nude for the Maker 'cause F him
Also...I just want to believe that maybe just maybe not all of the Evanuris were douche-bags (aka. still somewhat holding out hope for Sylaise and June )
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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2020 20:53:27 GMT
*sigh* Another thing ruined by just “because ancient elves”. Apart from what AlleluiaElizabeth said, I honestly cannot get why people are complaining so much about this, Hanako Ikezawa and LadyofNemesis . Dominant precursor cultures influence things all the time. In RL, we have "ancient Grome". Literally anything is better than trying to pull "It was the Maker!!! Bow to him, b*tch, and don't forget to take your clothes off." Or Egypt. Or...would China be the Eastern equivalent? Or the Ottoman Empire.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 18, 2020 21:04:25 GMT
*sigh* Another thing ruined by just “because ancient elves”. I don't see how the blight is ruined by this theory? Besides, we're technically just talking about the origin of the Darkspawn.
The origin of the taint itself might not be the elves, but the titans, still. Or some heretofore unforeseen, eldritch abomination. They could be two separate things.
I was referring more to the origins of the Darkspawn rather than the Blight itself, though I know that’s been theorized to be from them too.
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