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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 20:10:39 GMT
It's Red Bull, duh.
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theascendent
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Sept 29, 2020 20:12:10 GMT
Anyone else thinking that the Lady in Gold (the woman making a 'come hither' gesture to the Fat Magister Lady and walking next to Harley Qun (female Qunari) in the group shot) might be a Rivani Seer? It would be a new branch and way of magic we haven't explored yet.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 29, 2020 20:13:06 GMT
I'm sure I'll have them on Korbin (Legionnaire) in DAIMP when using Livid... but I am not completely sure if they are because of Livid or some other skill. Then it's probably something else. Livid alone doesn't give wings. Yep, I think it involves kills but... the icons are so hard to "read" when you have 10 Qunari hitting you Anyone else seen the wings on warrior?
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Sept 29, 2020 20:23:06 GMT
Anyone else thinking that the Lady in Gold (the woman making a 'come hither' gesture to the Fat Magister Lady and walking next to Harley Qun (female Qunari) in the group shot) might be a Rivani Seer? It would be a new branch and way of magic we haven't explored yet. I could see that, particularly the outfit choices. She's well kept and wears gorgeous clothes, so I could see her being of noble origin. Perhaps she's the "Femme Fatale," which is always a fun character in espionage stories.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 29, 2020 20:42:02 GMT
Unsure if it's just a random dwarf, but if dwarves are a playable race, then that would preclude a slave origin (unless we have multiple origins) since that are no dwarven slaves in the Tevinter Imperium. Servants, yes. Slaves, no. I've never understood people saying this. Did a writer say somewhere this was the case? Why would surface dwarves be considered any differently to other races when it comes to slavery? They are casteless so it is not going to offend anyone in the Ambassadoria if you enslave them. Casteless are considered non-people by dwarven society underground.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 29, 2020 20:49:58 GMT
Unsure if it's just a random dwarf, but if dwarves are a playable race, then that would preclude a slave origin (unless we have multiple origins) since that are no dwarven slaves in the Tevinter Imperium. Servants, yes. Slaves, no. I've never understood people saying this. Did a writer say somewhere this was the case? Why would surface dwarves be considered any differently to other races when it comes to slavery? They are casteless so it is not going to offend anyone in the Ambassadoria if you enslave them. Casteless are considered non-people by dwarven society underground. It's according to the Wikipedia and I think it cites The World of Thedas (Vol. 1) as the source for that tidbit of information. That said, it may have simply been something (perhaps incorrectly) inferred from how humans, elves and qunari are all mentioned as slaves in one codex or another (or seen in the comics) while dwarves are never mentioned (or seen) as slaves at all.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 29, 2020 20:51:32 GMT
Unsure if it's just a random dwarf, but if dwarves are a playable race, then that would preclude a slave origin (unless we have multiple origins) since that are no dwarven slaves in the Tevinter Imperium. Servants, yes. Slaves, no. I've never understood people saying this. Did a writer say somewhere this was the case? Why would surface dwarves be considered any differently to other races when it comes to slavery? They are casteless so it is not going to offend anyone in the Ambassadoria if you enslave them. Casteless are considered non-people by dwarven society underground. It was in one of the WoT books. Dwarves, even surface dwarves, hold a special place in Tevinter society. Not citizens, but more like foreign dignitaries.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 29, 2020 20:52:38 GMT
I imagine a dwarf in slavery would be a case where they sold themselves and their family into it, like Krem’s family.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 29, 2020 20:54:12 GMT
I imagine a dwarf in slavery would be a case where they sold themselves and their family into it, like Krem’s family. Nope. There are no known dwarf slaves in the imperium. Servants, yes. But no slaves.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 29, 2020 20:56:31 GMT
I imagine a dwarf in slavery would be a case where they sold themselves and their family into it, like Krem’s family. Nope. There are no known dwarf slaves in the imperium. Servants, yes. But no slaves. Im saying I imagine that would be the explanation if they do a unified slave origin for all four races.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 29, 2020 21:09:41 GMT
Nope. There are no known dwarf slaves in the imperium. Servants, yes. But no slaves. Im saying I imagine that would be the explanation if they do a unified slave origin for all four races. Well, hypothetically, it would not be implausible for cases of illegal slavery to exist in the Tevinter Imperium. Even if there are no legal dwarven slaves, there are likely still people who want dwarven slaves for one reason or another, If it exist, I imagine it's something the Imperium actually comes down hard on it since it could hurt its relation to Ambassadoria. I can also see indentured "servitude" be a thing. Slightly or more above slavery, but closely enough related to it to be its brother (but not its twin)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 29, 2020 21:20:58 GMT
Im saying I imagine that would be the explanation if they do a unified slave origin for all four races. Well, hypothetically, it would not be implausible for cases of illegal slavery to exist in the Tevinter Imperium. Even if there are no legal dwarven slaves, there are likely still people who want dwarven slaves for one reason or another, If it exist, I imagine it's something the Imperium actually comes down hard on it since it could hurt its relation to Ambassadoria. I can also see indentured "servitude" be a thing. Slightly or more above slavery, but closely enough related to it to be its brother (but not its twin) Yeah. For example the Venatori had dwarven slaves.
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Post by phoray on Sept 29, 2020 21:40:35 GMT
If the game is as gorgeous as the graphics/ concept art look like I expect I'll be doing a lot of the above. Dragon Age I had it's pretty moments, but realistic wasn't it's strong point. Didn't the rocks always look drawn?
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Post by Solas on Sept 30, 2020 0:11:41 GMT
No comment on the unending Inquisitor PC debate but I really doubt whoever drunk from the well is a slave or bound to Solas. He absorbed Flemythal's power after she sent a spark away through the eluvian. she sends a spark away regardless of whether OGB Kieran existed for her to take the OG soul from him or not.
The woman distracting the magister on the palanquin doesn't look Rivaini.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 30, 2020 8:31:58 GMT
The wiki is misleading, it states
"No dwarves are known to be kept as slaves in the Imperium, presumably due to their fundamental importance to the Imperium in providing lyrium."
Something that is at no point stated in the WoTv1 Tevinter Imperium section, and it puts this sentence right after a bunch of stuff that is in the WoTv1 making it seem like it's from there. And right before mentioning the dwarf overseer of slaves from Paying the ferryman, assuming them to be a servant, though we don't know if they were that or a higher ranking slave as it wasn't stated.
I have the book open in front of me.
The slave section sais "In the past, Tevinter slaves were overwhelmingly elven. Since the Long Walk, the class has become a mix of mostly elves and humans."
Note the word mostly, as in not all elves and humans.
And the Dwarves & The Imperium section states
"A large number of surface dwarves live in the Imperium. They are not considered citizens but, instead, foreign dignitaries, even if their houses have lived in Tevinter for generations."
"The difference between the dwarves of Tevinter and the dwarves of every other surface nation is that those in Tevinter have their own branch of government."
"The Ambassadoria functions less like a parliament and more like a lobby group."
It of course also mentions lyrium trade as the source of their influence, that they have an embassy in every major city and that three of those embassies ( Minrathous, Neromenian, and Qarinus) are underground.
Now one could assume, as it appears the wiki writer has done, that the Ambassadoria would lobby to make enslaving dwarves illegal leveraging their power over the lyrium trade to get it. That the Ambassadoria's status as foreign dignitaries extends to all dwarves, even those from outside of Tevinter or without money or status amoungst dwarves.
But until we know for sure either way it's just an assumption.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Sept 30, 2020 9:37:53 GMT
I also believe that Dorian will mention something about the role the Carta plays in Tevinter with Cadash Inquisitor.
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Post by Gilli on Sept 30, 2020 12:09:10 GMT
I'm sure I'll have them on Korbin (Legionnaire) in DAIMP when using Livid... but I am not completely sure if they are because of Livid or some other skill. Then it's probably something else. Livid alone doesn't give wings. Upgraded Livid does give you dragon wings.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 30, 2020 12:11:28 GMT
That said, it may have simply been something (perhaps incorrectly) inferred from how humans, elves and qunari are all mentioned as slaves in one codex or another (or seen in the comics) while dwarves are never mentioned (or seen) as slaves at all. It was in one of the WoT books. Dwarves, even surface dwarves, hold a special place in Tevinter society. Not citizens, but more like foreign dignitaries. This applied to those who originally had higher caste status and in some ways were forced above ground when the Deep Roads were cut off. What I was referring to was dwarves who had never been anything other than casteless, either becoming that status whilst still underground or acquiring that status having been exiled from Orzammar (or other thaigs when they existed). Why would the Magisters treat them as honoured foreign dignitaries when their own society does not? Those who were casteless underground have even been branded to indicate this, so anybody having the slightest knowledge of dwarven society, and the Altus would have a great deal, would hardly have been likely to give them the same honoured status as those dwarves who are members of the Ambassadoria. (Note: there are occasional things on the Wiki that I would dispute, which is why the writers apparent reliance on it causes me some concern. There are also instances in WoT and the later games that do not make sense in the context of the previous lore and even in direct contradiction of it, which is always explained away with the unreliable narrator excuse. So in this case there is no reason why they couldn't have dwarf slaves and then say that the writer of the entry in WoT, who is meant to be an in world scholar, simply got it wrong). So whilst it says that slaves are mostly humans and elves that does mean that some of them are not. Of course the real reason they wouldn't favour dwarves as slaves is that they are probably less useful in blood magic rituals. Elves are still the favoured race for this because apparently their blood is different to other races, humans probably rank second most useful and dwarves come last. I wouldn't be sure about qunari because they have only relatively recently been added to the population and so old habits would die hard. It is possible that qunari might have the most potent magical blood of all, if they do have links to dragons, but maybe no one has realised that yet.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 30, 2020 12:27:52 GMT
Now one could assume, as it appears the wiki writer has done, that the Ambassadoria would lobby to make enslaving dwarves illegal leveraging their power over the lyrium trade to get it. That the Ambassadoria's status as foreign dignitaries extends to all dwarves, even those from outside of Tevinter or without money or status amoungst dwarves. But until we know for sure either way it's just an assumption. Exactly. As I've said above, WoT is not meant to be an infallible record but the view of an in world scholar, probably of southern origins, since in WoT2 Genetivi is said to know them (in the addendum correcting some of the mistakes in WoT). There is no reason that any dwarf in the Ambassadoria would care a flying fig about a branded casteless dwarf being used as a slave and anybody familiar with dwarven society, which the Altus ought to be having had such an association as they have enjoyed, would know this to be the case. Casteless dwarves are non-people and not permitted to hold any role in dwarven society, even a servant, so in fact it would likely be considered an insult by the dwarves who are "honoured citizens" for a branded casteless dwarf to hold any role other than slave in Tevinter society. Thus, at the very least, these dwarves might be found as slaves in Tevinter and might even consider it a step up from their existence in dwarven society.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Sept 30, 2020 12:56:59 GMT
If slave origin can only work for some races let us look at others. Powerlessness is a major theme they wanted to explore so who or what is powerless in Thedas. Slaves are an obvious choice for any origin but we can't apply it all the races (hoping we get multiple race selection in DA4) without breaking or 'expanding' the lore *cough* Dalish Mage fiasco in Inquisition *cough* let us look at some other possible origin options. A prospective Antivan Crow is one. Remember the hellish training Zevran had to go through and the story he told us of how expendable they deemed him. Sounds like powerlessness to me. A prisoner is a good choice as well. Though I doubt Bioware can pull a Bethesda. Lord of Fortune is more freedom, fun and treasure than powerlessness. You are a specialist mercenary or freelancer treasure hunter. Probably makes a great character companion but not an origin. Qunari convert? I can see defecting from the Qun as a means to freedom/power in a culture where everyone has a place and must stay in that place. Casteless Dwarf and Carta Surfacer have both been done in Origins and Inquisition respectively, so who knows if they will be able to do so again in a very different location. Dalish was heavily involved in Inquisition (and received a major thrashing) so City Elf seems likely and more believable. Then again you could mix it with slave and add a minor callback to Origins. (remember those Elves in Denerim's Alienage? They were shipped to Minrathous)
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 30, 2020 13:11:22 GMT
Then again you could mix it with slave and add a minor callback to Origins. (remember those Elves in Denerim's Alienage? They were shipped to Minrathous I remember we discussed this on an earlier thread. That would be a nice little link back to the earlier game without being too heavy handed about it. Of course it would be something like 15+ years since they were shipped to Tevinter, so possibly long enough that they eventually stopped thinking about Ferelden because it was too painful, or even they had worked their way far enough up the slave hierachy that they actually do enjoy a relatively higher status than they did in the alienage. Dorian mentions this as his justification for slavery but we know how slaves can be encouraged to complete with one another for higher status or other benefits and may even be set free as a reward for good service. Imagine how annoyed they would be if they spent fifteen years carefully working their way to Liberati status only for the Qun to invade and rendering it all meaningless.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 30, 2020 13:15:15 GMT
Then it's probably something else. Livid alone doesn't give wings. Yep, I think it involves kills but... the icons are so hard to "read" when you have 10 Qunari hitting you Anyone else seen the wings on warrior? Ok it IS Livid, it seems to be forming the wings when there are enough enemies and kills during its usage. Just tested in DAIMP.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 30, 2020 13:33:53 GMT
Then it's probably something else. Livid alone doesn't give wings. Upgraded Livid does give you dragon wings. Yes! Thank you, sorry I missed your post (also got CON to 46 during the testing )
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 30, 2020 13:37:10 GMT
Upgraded Livid does give you dragon wings. Ok it IS Livid, it seems to be forming the wings when there are enough enemies and kills during its usage. Just tested in DAIMP. Ah, thanks Now I don't need to rack my brain about it
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Solas on Sept 30, 2020 15:07:00 GMT
dunno one way or the other about dwarves, but if the drawing in WoT is anything to go by some of the slaves in Tevinter who aren't elves or humans are qunari.
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