The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 27, 2024 13:26:46 GMT
You traded barbs with Solas… I thought the idea behind it was fine, because the dialogue with him and the choice you made there could lead to two different paths in the relationship with Solas, and hopefully a more antagonistic one, if the player wants to go down that path. The notification could've been worded differently. If every choice you make in the game is tracked, though, I get the feeling that the system's function is to help new players/novices in RPGs...which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they should have implemented a toggle to turn it off for those that wished to.
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Post by helios969 on Oct 27, 2024 14:36:36 GMT
You traded barbs with Solas… Does that mean I get to strangle him with barbed wire?
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Post by emissaryoflies on Oct 27, 2024 15:07:34 GMT
You traded barbs with Solas… I thought the idea behind it was fine, because the dialogue with him and the choice you made there could lead to two different paths in the relationship with Solas, and hopefully a more antagonistic one, if the player wants to go down that path. The notification could've been worded differently. If every choice you make in the game is tracked, though, I get the feeling that the system's function is to help new players/novices in RPGs...which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they should have implemented a toggle to turn it off for those that wished to. I do not disagree. It just seems so...regressive. It's like they're treating the player as if they're 90, senile, and have never played 'wunna dem vidya gams' before. Are we really at the point where we have to notify players when they're being 'witty'? The past titles never needed notifications. Though in some instances, the DA2 loyalty quest with Merrill for example, it can be helpful. It was so easy to pick the dialogue that ends up wiping out the Sabrae clan. Though you can easily argue that it was a flaw in the writing. To the point, the fade sequence with Solas does not appear to carry the same weight. Maybe a toggle can be a quality of life update. It's just damned depressing that developers seem to think people are dimwitted fools who need everything carefully explained to them like they're in kindergarten.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 27, 2024 15:26:39 GMT
I saw a bit of something in some spoilers so I'm going to be vague .Cutscenes are way better than they used to be. Fantastic. But the "choices"? So you talk with someone and you sort of resume what you learn about them. Diverse background. Then you got a binary "choice" that boils down to "it is a good thing" " or kinda rough" . You pick"ok, good for you". Then you get a pop up after saying what boil down to "okie, dokie" : You encourage X person to embrace who they are" Bioware, small chitchat and saying "Cool" doesn't mean anything. The dialogue is ok, but popping up the BIG CHOICE interface + Ooooh dialogue consequence pops up in that moment feels so silly.
Dear me, I wonder if they are really chasing the title parody of the year. To be fair though, I have thought some of the dialogue in the past was toe curling, particularly some of the purple Hawke comments that at times were really inappropriate for the situation. I suppose just silly is an improvement but not if it actually impacts on the development of the companion character. I wonder how long Rook has known them. Have they only just met? Why would Rook's endorsement of their life choices matter to them at that point? Still it is better than the situation with Leliana in DAI in Haven over that spy of hers and if you don't ask her to spare them, she is set permanently on the path to murder Divine. That really annoyed me when I discovered that was the case because at the time I had only just joined the Inquisition and was not yet their leader, whilst she was the established Spy Master, so should be capable of making her own decisions without deferring to me, a comparative stranger. My Dalish just stood back and observed because I had been sent as a spy and knew little about how humans did things, so it didn't seem my place to interfere. Plus the spy had betrayed them and I had no personal connection to them or knowledge of their motives, so why would I object to her ordering their death? Subsequently, I was actually a merciful judge, told her she was right to pull back her soldiers when they started going missing and ordered her to spare the nun at the end, but none of that mattered because of that first decision not to interfere. So instead of what should have been a cumulative effect, it boiled down to one choice and you were done. Sometimes the way they framed choices and consequences in previous games seemed illogical to me but I just had to live with them. I didn't make vengeful Leliana Divine but voted for Cassandra instead. The disappointment was that my Hero who was in a romance with Leliana wrote asking if I could do something for her as he thought the Divine's death had hit her badly but by that point it was too late. Poor chap got murder Leliana in place of the sweet Leliana he previously knew. Still, none of that matters now anyway.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 27, 2024 15:55:04 GMT
Wouldn't the issue, in that scenario, be the overuse of the consequence's notification system , then the actual dialogue? Light dialogues without big choices were always present in previous games. When they shown it at first, I thought it was an interest addition, but if it basically pop up for every single choice you make, even light ones, it might get repetitive and boring right away. Yep. And... It also manages to sort of spoil the companion character arc somewhat. as in what really matters to them. When you basically know them for maybe a day. It makes a normal conversation feel gamey too. Not a fan of it.
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Post by fraggle on Oct 27, 2024 16:01:34 GMT
I thought the idea behind it was fine, because the dialogue with him and the choice you made there could lead to two different paths in the relationship with Solas, and hopefully a more antagonistic one, if the player wants to go down that path. The notification could've been worded differently. If every choice you make in the game is tracked, though, I get the feeling that the system's function is to help new players/novices in RPGs...which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they should have implemented a toggle to turn it off for those that wished to. I do not disagree. It just seems so...regressive. It's like they're treating the player as if they're 90, senile, and have never played 'wunna dem vidya gams' before. Are we really at the point where we have to notify players when they're being 'witty'? The past titles never needed notifications. Though in some instances, the DA2 loyalty quest with Merrill for example, it can be helpful. It was so easy to pick the dialogue that ends up wiping out the Sabrae clan. Though you can easily argue that it was a flaw in the writing. To the point, the fade sequence with Solas does not appear to carry the same weight. Maybe a toggle can be a quality of life update. It's just damned depressing that developers seem to think people are dimwitted fools who need everything carefully explained to them like they're in kindergarten. While I pretty much agree with you, this could maybe help a lot of people new to the franchise or games in general going down a certain path, like The Elder King said. To me, it's a bit akin to the heart icons, so players know when to pick a certain dialogue option to advance their romance. Maybe. I don't know how it'll feel when we play it/fully see it, but it does sound a lot like what Telltale used to do as well. I actually found it quite interesting such a thing was in a game, just to get the general tone of how a character will perceive what you said or did (some people have better antennas in terms of dialogues and how it will affect your companions or their views towards your character, but some have a hard time reading people, so it might be beneficial for those?).
As for a toggle, yeah, that would have been nice, but it's ok for me either way... I had games already which explained you every little detail in tutorials and menus, stuff you simply know when you've played RPGs for the majority of your life. I get that it's for the newbies, so it's fine in general. We all started with this at some point I guess What you say about devs thinking players being dimwitted fools, I agree it can come across like that, but I'm not so sure that's actually the devs' intentions. I mean, the same could be said about stuff like "don't put your pre-made pizza in the oven with the plastic wrap around" or "don't drink bleach". If such warnings are on packages, someone might have tried it, soooo... don't overestimate people, sometimes I already feel like I'm in frigging Idiocracy
Overall I am also very curious how it will feel having your choices actually displayed once I play it. 4 days!
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Post by hookntackle on Oct 27, 2024 16:45:21 GMT
It's hard sometimes to envision someone who's never played a game like these before, but I think that's pretty much what the baseline has got to be for a main stream game such as BW's.
The fact that romance has these cutesy little icons for a good heart and a broken heart is probably my biggest critique with the series ever since. But those are necessary sadly, because "romance" (which is what we ironically call it) got so "epxected" it turned into a silly little minigame with tacky mechanics and rules to follow. In DAO it sort of emerged naturally after hours spent just, talking, and saying specific stuff, as additional stuff. It is then beyond me how they came up with the friendship/rivalry system in DA2 (the basic idea to which there is so much you could build upon still), and then for whatever reason returned to the suck-up/hostile "system" again. It's the same thing with ME.
There's different ways to form a relationship than either agreeing or disagree with everything someone is saying. Or justifying every disagreement with "well it's because you suck and I'm right" rather than being able to actually build bridges.
Sorry for the slight derailment
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 27, 2024 16:56:19 GMT
I remember a 6/10 for Andromeda at one gaming site, forget which. It was GameSpot. Seared on my memory that one.
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Post by explorerclass on Oct 27, 2024 21:31:42 GMT
I am still excited. But I have to admit since the world state thing came out my hype really died down. I was watching every video, every news piece, multiple people talk about the exact same reveals.
Since they told us about the import I hardly touched dragon age. I don’t go online to complain or try to drain hype but it really did drain me, I was so sad about that and then the way they acted like I don’t know what I as a player want.
Weekes talking about how we don’t know that asking for cameos is asking for danger? Of course we know our (at least sometimes) dark fantasy can have dark moments, I WANT alistair to return to end a blight, after he survived the 5th everything else he’s done has been amazing but a bonus. I don’t want always and only happy endings.
I’m not mad for not getting exactly that, it’s just the condescending nature in which the writers talked about it that set me off.
And since then I just lost a lot of excitement. Still buying day 1, still gonna be obsessed I’m sure.
But it feels so disconnected to my journey and my story, it is just less exciting to speculate and hype myself up over.
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Post by Envisionary on Oct 28, 2024 1:03:44 GMT
Short leaked footage involving Taash It's a link to a video, nothing in the spoiler box itself. Just thought I should anyway. But ma'am, this dialogue is giving me hives.
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Post by Guardian on Oct 28, 2024 1:19:36 GMT
Short leaked footage involving Taash It's a link to a video, nothing in the spoiler box itself. Just thought I should anyway. But ma'am, this dialogue is giving me hives. Wow.....that dialog....yikes....
What was up with that little indicator? I mean....while that's never a bad thing (we basically did it with Sten in Origins, really - albeit not as ham-fisted), it's a little on-the-nose if you think about it. But seriously, if that's the writing for the game companions, it really felt like....very inexperienced people wrote this.
Again, it's really just Andromeda writing all over again it seems....which was one of the biggest problems Andromeda had.
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Post by 10k on Oct 28, 2024 1:20:10 GMT
Short leaked footage involving Taash It's a link to a video, nothing in the spoiler box itself. Just thought I should anyway. But ma'am, this dialogue is giving me hives. Bro, that voice for Taash does not match that body. They really needed to cast someone with a deeper tone. I don't like that at all.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by emissaryoflies on Oct 28, 2024 1:30:48 GMT
Bad lip syncing, bad voices, bad aesthetic, and insipid writing. The shit just keeps piling up doesn't it?
Edit: It's giving Dustborn, new Saints Row vibes. Yikes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2024 2:49:07 GMT
Bad lip syncing, bad voices, bad aesthetic, and insipid writing. The shit just keeps piling up doesn't it? Edit: It's giving Dustborn, new Saints Row vibes. Yikes. I think I'll just wait for the next Witcher if that's how things are
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Post by necrowaif on Oct 28, 2024 3:24:02 GMT
Maker help me, how is that dialogue in any way an encouragement to “focus on the benefits of a multicultural background”? Oh, and you gotta love the fivehead Qunari
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akots
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by akots on Oct 28, 2024 3:36:32 GMT
Wow.....that dialog....yikes.... I guess you mean very unprofessional out-of-place writing, overall animation, and voice acting. I presume, most of the game is going to be of similar quality to this little excerpt, which might not even be the most cringy part. Even Andromeda had occasional bright moments that made some sense. Well, maybe DAV also has a few good lines here and there. Anyhow, my condolences to those who decided to listen to all dialog in DAV in its entirety. Hopefully, most of this bs is skippable. I wholeheartedly sympathize with this unbendable commitment and will be handing out virtual cookies for all unspoken heroes braving these daring seas of obsolescence.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 28, 2024 3:46:04 GMT
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Post by Guardian on Oct 28, 2024 4:13:28 GMT
Wow.....that dialog....yikes.... I guess you mean very unprofessional out-of-place writing, overall animation, and voice acting. I presume, most of the game is going to be of similar quality to this little excerpt, which might not even be the most cringy part. Even Andromeda had occasional bright moments that made some sense. Well, maybe DAV also has a few good lines here and there. Anyhow, my condolences to those who decided to listen to all dialog in DAV in its entirety. Hopefully, most of this bs is skippable. I wholeheartedly sympathize with this unbendable commitment and will be handing out virtual cookies for all unspoken heroes braving these daring seas of obsolescence. As I said, we did something similar with Sten, just more nuanced (as opposed to being as subtle as a brick to the face).
But yes, those bright moments I expected in Andromeda - they left the Milky Way and went to a whole new galaxy, so I expected some optimism (frankly, they went a bit overboard with it, and the game suffered because of it), but this just feels like turning Dragon Age into Andromeda, when there's a threat this dire, why are we all acting/talking/behaving like everything is cool and will work out in the end?
And before someone from the Hype thread comes in and tries to say, "Origins did it, too!" - yes....but not until we got to Denerim after building our army. I remember getting to Denerim, and really feeling like we had an actual chance at winning this war. Because up until then, it felt like you were facing insurmountable odds. The Archdemon appearing did give me pause, but by that point, it was all-or-nothing. This just feels like there's no sense of urgency or looming threat. "Oh yeah, two ancient elven gods who are corrupted and can make blights happen are rampaging around, but eh; it's cool. We'll just make it up as we go!" This is sort of the problem I had wtih ME2's story, but at least ME2 managed to keep the sense of "urgency" in the plot. Maybe they do here? If they do, that dialog didn't really show it very well.
And again, before those same commenters come in here - yes, it did feel like that, but there was a more obvious direction to go in because of the treaties. There was an actual goal; accomplishing it was going to be something you really couldn't just plan for, because Loghain really made sure of that for the Circle (indirectly; Uldred was ready to throw his lot in with Loghain) and Redcliffe. If the Dwarves and the Elves weren't embroiled in their own controversies, it'd be a different story (at least the Dwarves; the Elves really felt like they didn't care at all).
I can understand 10k feeling Taash's voice doesn't fit the character. At the same time, I guess I could also argue that outside of the one female Qunari in Trespasser (who's voice I don't remember), we've only heard male Qunari. I'd argue more that it just points back to how they want to make the Qun "less problematic" and more "welcoming". This is what makes the Qunari interesting as a people - this is their society. They're meant to be rigid like this, just like the Dwarves have the caste system and the dusters. Not saying it's a wonderful thing - not by any stretch (because I know how these forums are, and only that first bit will be seen and used as a basis for the rebuttal), but it's what makes them unique - makes Thedas more interesting. People don't like the Qunari because of it; it gives them a flaw - makes them have character. Just like the Dwarves; I hate saying it, but the Elves as well, since most their history has been lost to them, and they're kind of the "poor us!" people. But because of how they're treated like second-class citizens, it gives them a flaw, too, by being distrustful of any outsiders.
Without any sort of conflict naturally between nations/people, that makes for a pretty dull world. You point it out to Sten, sure; will it convince him and change his mind? Not if they keep Sten as the Beresaad that he is, no. And that's what makes him and the Qunari interesting. Because to us, outside of the Qun, we know it's not right - but it's their way of life and how they have always done things.
Sorry...went off on a tangent there....but point is - the writing feels very....inexperienced....like the veterans that helped write some of the plot before being dismissed have no impression on what we've seen or been shown so far. And that is very telling and troubling.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Oct 28, 2024 4:24:32 GMT
The writing is narcissistic, amateurish garbage...or are we not allowed to say that anymore. In a criticism thread.
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Post by Guardian on Oct 28, 2024 4:25:27 GMT
I am still excited. But I have to admit since the world state thing came out my hype really died down. I was watching every video, every news piece, multiple people talk about the exact same reveals. Since they told us about the import I hardly touched dragon age. I don’t go online to complain or try to drain hype but it really did drain me, I was so sad about that and then the way they acted like I don’t know what I as a player want. Weekes talking about how we don’t know that asking for cameos is asking for danger? Of course we know our (at least sometimes) dark fantasy can have dark moments, I WANT alistair to return to end a blight, after he survived the 5th everything else he’s done has been amazing but a bonus. I don’t want always and only happy endings. I’m not mad for not getting exactly that, it’s just the condescending nature in which the writers talked about it that set me off. And since then I just lost a lot of excitement. Still buying day 1, still gonna be obsessed I’m sure. But it feels so disconnected to my journey and my story, it is just less exciting to speculate and hype myself up over. These are valid points and feelings to have. At the core, this is what a lot of us on this thread feel - we don't like how the writers are trying to say, "We know what's best for you and the story." And that's just it - it doesn't feel like our story anymore. This is now their story; and that's fine - they can tell their story how they want. It doesn't mean it absolves it of being critiqued and criticized for all of a sudden pivoting from what we've come to expect up until this point.
At the end, though, as long as you still hold some of that excitement, I hope you can still enjoy it! At some point, I'll play it myself just to see how it all ends. Granted, I'll be waiting for it to go on sale, but I will give it a fair try, and judge for myself after all is said and done. I could be wrong, and it could blow me away. If it does, I'll gladly say so. But, I have a feeling it'll be mediocre at best, which is why I just can't really get hyped for it myself.
And yes, when it comes to a "happy ending", there's a time and a place for it. Honestly, the ending we got back in ME3 is the ending we should've been given for Veilguard, and I assume whatever (probably happy) ending it looks like we'll be getting in Veilguard should have been for ME3. But, that's also a different debate, and a different circumstance as to who gets the blame for that.
Nothing wrong with still being obsessed - I'm glad you still have some excitement about the game. Thank you for also being respectful about the nature of this thread. I hope you enjoy the game, or at least get enough out of it that you want when it's released
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Post by Iakus on Oct 28, 2024 4:55:37 GMT
Short leaked footage involving Taash It's a link to a video, nothing in the spoiler box itself. Just thought I should anyway. But ma'am, this dialogue is giving me hives. Maker, that dialogue killed brain cells! There goes any lingering doubts I had on holding off on purchasing!
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Post by Iakus on Oct 28, 2024 4:56:32 GMT
The writing is narcissistic, amateurish garbage...or are we not allowed to say that anymore. In a criticism thread. Only approved skepticism is permitted.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Agent 46
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Nov 17, 2024 17:18:18 GMT
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Gileadan
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gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Oct 28, 2024 6:12:32 GMT
Urgh, that dialogue. A noncommittal reply like "I get that" is an "encouragement to focus on the benefits of a multicultural background"? How? Where are "encouragement" and "benefits" in those few words?
Now I get why these pop-ups exist. "You exchanged verbal jabs with Solas. You encouraged Taash to focus on the benefits of a multicultural background"... because the conversations themselves are so short and poorly written that you might not even know what you actually just said just from the voice lines alone.
Well, the end of the review embargo will be an interesting moment, I guess.
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yarus
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Post by yarus on Oct 28, 2024 6:49:16 GMT
Oh so they're finally defanging the Qunari
*Grabs popcorn*
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 28, 2024 7:08:15 GMT
Oh so they're finally defanging the Qunari *Grabs popcorn* They really should change the name from taash to trash to fit the dialogue.
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