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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 13, 2020 19:27:03 GMT
I'd rather have the dog or pet e a summon like in DA2. Didn't take up a character slot, but we still had all the scenes with it like companion interaction.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 13, 2020 19:28:12 GMT
Dead, shitty or not, if Bio is truly trying to revive the franchise, the studio needs to looks at the competition. Bio will have to contend with Cyberpunk 2077 a game whose VA work is 15-20% more than Witcher 3, including the DLC. Add BG3 that's coming up and DA4 needs to be a solid game with engaging characters and story in context with Thedas culture.
These above two games will set the bar that Bio needs to equal or beat when DA4 launches in 2022. Pretty eye candy won't do it nor chars with gender issues, imo. Mind, a great, successful marketing campaign can sell shit... just look at Anthem.
neither BG 3 or Cyberpunk will be direct competition for 4. -both coming out now. - releasing on current systems. - different genres. - arguably different gp genres. Now ironically DA 4 is the only game we really know that will release in 22-23 window. It might suck, it might not suck...but we have no idea what its competition will look like. We may get a new AC game then (god will that be an interesting year if we get both, especially if they are both holiday releases, it'll be like 'sorry Unisoft'  )Oh joy, two franchises that screw the players over with postgame DLC.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 13, 2020 19:30:21 GMT
neither BG 3 or Cyberpunk will be direct competition for 4. -both coming out now. - releasing on current systems. - different genres. - arguably different gp genres. Now ironically DA 4 is the only game we really know that will release in 22-23 window. It might suck, it might not suck...but we have no idea what its competition will look like. We may get a new AC game then (god will that be an interesting year if we get both, especially if they are both holiday releases, it'll be like 'sorry Unisoft' )Oh joy, two franchises that screw the players over with postgame DLC. hanako you are like a missile on a mission. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 13, 2020 19:37:23 GMT
Oh joy, two franchises that screw the players over with postgame DLC. hanako you are like a missile on a mission. I'm this briefcase.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 19:47:02 GMT
I'd rather have the dog or pet e a summon like in DA2. Didn't take up a character slot, but we still had all the scenes with it like companion interaction. Yeah good call, this was always a dilemma for me in DA:O- whether to bring e.g. Dog or Alistair. So this is probably the best of both worlds.
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Post by Frost on Sept 13, 2020 20:46:30 GMT
Now ironically DA 4 is the only game we really know that will release in 22-23 window. It might suck, it might not suck...but we have no idea what its competition will look like. We may get a new AC game then (god will that be an interesting year if we get both, especially if they are both holiday releases, it'll be like 'sorry Unisoft'  ) As far as competition the game I am wondering about is Avowed. It doesn't have a release date yet, but it might release around the same time. Hopefully not, though.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 13, 2020 21:12:13 GMT
Where is the evidence that most people ditched her?
?? You just admitted she is a divisive character. Where is the evidence that most people did not ditch her?
Arguably, some kept her as a companion. Probably to bang her, I bet. Now I had her as a companion for a while. She's a good fighter. no question. But, Sara got on my nerves with her voice, her accent and general teenageesh attitude. Not my style, I guess.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 13, 2020 21:31:34 GMT
Dead, shitty or not, if Bio is truly trying to revive the franchise, the studio needs to looks at the competition. Bio will have to contend with Cyberpunk 2077 a game whose VA work is 15-20% more than Witcher 3, including the DLC. Add BG3 that's coming up and DA4 needs to be a solid game with engaging characters and story in context with Thedas culture.
These above two games will set the bar that Bio needs to equal or beat when DA4 launches in 2022. Pretty eye candy won't do it nor chars with gender issues, imo. Mind, a great, successful marketing campaign can sell shit... just look at Anthem.
neither BG 3 or Cyberpunk will be direct competition for 4. -both coming out now. - releasing on current systems. - different genres. - arguably different gp genres. Now ironically DA 4 is the only game we really know that will release in 22-23 window. It might suck, it might not suck...but we have no idea what its competition will look like. We may get a new AC game then (god will that be an interesting year if we get both, especially if they are both holiday releases, it'll be like 'sorry Unisoft' )
On the contrary.
DA4 will be analyzed against these two. We players are familiar with many games. Furthermore, we can appreciate certain well done features in game A that would be nice in game B and C.
As to different genres well, hello? ... they are both RPGs. ... combat mechanics aside.
As to a comparison example, I give you 2077 city living... which from the game trailers appear to be alive... Anthem, ME and DA city / town just have manikins. ... a pet peeve of mine, admittedly.
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I am alive.
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Posts: 292 Likes: 350
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Post by eternalambiguity on Sept 13, 2020 22:00:31 GMT
Now ironically DA 4 is the only game we really know that will release in 22-23 window. It might suck, it might not suck...but we have no idea what its competition will look like. We may get a new AC game then (god will that be an interesting year if we get both, especially if they are both holiday releases, it'll be like 'sorry Unisoft' ) As far as competition the game I am wondering about is Avowed. It doesn't have a release date yet, but it might release around the same time. Hopefully not, though. Do you think Avowed will be a third-person RTwP with four controllable characters in combat and a tactics system?
I doubt it.
On the contrary.
DA4 will be analyzed against these two. We players are familiar with many games. Furthermore, we can appreciate certain well done features in game A that would be nice in game B and C.
As to different genres well, hello? ... they are both RPGs. ... combat mechanics aside.
As to a comparison example, I give you 2077 city living... which from the game trailers appear to be alive... Anthem, ME and DA city / town just have manikins. ... a pet peeve of mine, admittedly. No, not "combat mechanics aside." They play completely differently, and they will probably focus on completely different things (companions are not Larian's strong suit). Same for Cyberpunk, and trying to compare the city purely so you can shit on Bioware is retarded. The "Other company's game that isn't like Bioware's games at all will totally BEAT them" thing is so, so trite. It was old 7-8 years ago when people on the old site were fellating The Witcher 3 before its release.
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Post by Frost on Sept 13, 2020 22:16:25 GMT
As far as competition the game I am wondering about is Avowed. It doesn't have a release date yet, but it might release around the same time. Hopefully not, though. Do you think Avowed will be a third-person RTwP with four controllable characters in combat and a tactics system? I doubt it. I hope it will have 3rd person!
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 13, 2020 23:14:26 GMT
Since I was asked to express my reservations, by LukeBarrett and I do have a gameplay reservation, I think that the switch to more action based combat has been a huge mistake for the franchise. While Bioware is reserved from fully committing to either side, their combat system has suffered, when the DA:O one was great and could be improved with some tweaking. On the other hand, I don't understand this commitment to the middle ground, that suffers from the worst aspects of the genres, not being skill based enough and not promoting any thought being put into tactics. And I wish I could condone the shift to full on action, there are other games that do the action part far better, with a wide plethora of weapons at their disposal. If you want to turn it into Dynasty Warriors, do it, that's fine, but you'd also have to compete with the established Dynasty Warriors and the impossible number of spinoffs it has produced. And then that leaves us with the tactical combat, which I really do enjoy the RTwP aspect of DA:O. On that front, Firaxis, with the X-Com series and Larian with the Divinity games and now with Baldur's Gate 3, officially stepping into what once was Bioware territory, have shown that there is a market for that, a huge, untapped one, with great earnings, both in reputation and market good will, but also financial. I don't understand why Bioware would recede from that market segment and just hand it to the competition. Especially when Bioware could have their cake and eat it, too, with Mass Effect being the action franchise and Dragon Age the more tactical one. Just look how big Larian has got over the past decade, by producing good TBS RPGs, with a very superficial and mostly tacky narrative in their games. And I understand that people can say "RTwP or TBS combat is the way of the past". If the way of the past is so incredibly successful today, that propels a mediocre studio to greatness, maybe these people shouldn't be listened to. And I'm sorry, but I've yet to see the fruits of that compromise to more action oriented combat. |
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Post by colfoley on Sept 14, 2020 2:38:27 GMT
Since I was asked to express my reservations, by LukeBarrett and I do have a gameplay reservation, I think that the switch to more action based combat has been a huge mistake for the franchise. While Bioware is reserved from fully committing to either side, their combat system has suffered, when the DA:O one was great and could be improved with some tweaking. On the other hand, I don't understand this commitment to the middle ground, that suffers from the worst aspects of the genres, not being skill based enough and not promoting any thought being put into tactics. And I wish I could condone the shift to full on action, there are other games that do the action part far better, with a wide plethora of weapons at their disposal. If you want to turn it into Dynasty Warriors, do it, that's fine, but you'd also have to compete with the established Dynasty Warriors and the impossible number of spinoffs it has produced. And then that leaves us with the tactical combat, which I really do enjoy the RTwP aspect of DA:O. On that front, Firaxis, with the X-Com series and Larian with the Divinity games and now with Baldur's Gate 3, officially stepping into what once was Bioware territory, have shown that there is a market for that, a huge, untapped one, with great earnings, both in reputation and market good will, but also financial. I don't understand why Bioware would recede from that market segment and just hand it to the competition. Especially when Bioware could have their cake and eat it, too, with Mass Effect being the action franchise and Dragon Age the more tactical one. Just look how big Larian has got over the past decade, by producing good TBS RPGs, with a very superficial and mostly tacky narrative in their games. And I understand that people can say "RTwP or TBS combat is the way of the past". If the way of the past is so incredibly successful today, that propels a mediocre studio to greatness, maybe these people shouldn't be listened to. And I'm sorry, but I've yet to see the fruits of that compromise to more action oriented combat. Well all I can say to this is if they go back to Origins Combat I just might be done with the series moving forward. It would take a lot of tweaking to make that fun for me.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 14, 2020 6:54:44 GMT
The only combat thing from DAO I want back is DW warrior. Because that one wasn't so horriblly slow and boring...
I liked DA2 combat best.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 14, 2020 9:01:41 GMT
I disliked DA2 combat so much, the first time I played the demo, I couldn't even finish it. I didn't want to play a game that acted like that. |
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Post by kalreegar on Sept 14, 2020 10:25:57 GMT
Da2 combat (on hard and nightmare) is awesome. IMO even better than origins.
You have limited resources (potions, bombs, etc.) and this makes every move count. It is much more tactical and requires better use of teammates' skills.
Da:I combat is terrible. Confusing, easy even at high levels of difficulty, often you do not understand what the hell is going on.
They must absolutely improve adn refine it.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 14, 2020 11:06:26 GMT
Strange. I quite liked DAI combat. It seemed to me a natural iteration of the formula. To a more fluid combat. Ever since 3D became the dominating factor the drive for action-oriented gameplay seemed the natural progression.
TBS is more of a niche today. Granted, the path to action RPG has been stony.
Most of the earlier games after BG were just dumping RTS into the formula with little sense for rulesets (like zone of controls). I'd never have played DAO if it wasn't for a friend showing me the companion interactions - the "action" rpgs like NW Nights and wossname were terrible crap with NPC just bum-rushing the mage and ranged characters, despite warriors standing in the way.
And DAO was no different in that regard. It's no surprised I picked a S&B character for my playthrough.
In DAI at last players were given tools to deal with the bum-rushing AI and lack of structured combat: The dodge abilities - they became quite essential, even though they blocked an important slot.
I wasn't a fan of the SW RPG and DA2 - the combat models were outdated and in DA2 outright didn't work satisfyingly. I ended up just backstabbing with the rogue instead of trying out the convoluted combo system.
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I am alive.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 292 Likes: 350
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Post by eternalambiguity on Sept 14, 2020 12:12:08 GMT
I still want robust enough tactics, and to be able to enable them for the controlled character, such that I can set up the tactics beforehand and never interject in real time.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 14, 2020 12:16:05 GMT
I disliked DA2 combat so much, the first time I played the demo, I couldn't even finish it. I didn't want to play a game that acted like that.
Hm...
Up until DA2, my selection was either Mage or Archer. As a warrior, my sword swings always missed. Perhaps I have poor finger control. However, with Auto Attack in Da2 I am able to play as a warrior. Man, it's so satisfying to be able to WHACK! somebody. And, when I was in the mood, I turned on blood and gore... hehe.
For that reason I like the combat.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 14, 2020 12:19:36 GMT
I still want robust enough tactics, and to be able to enable them for the controlled character, such that I can set up the tactics beforehand and never interject in real time.
Aah... there's another like me?
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 14, 2020 12:30:13 GMT
Strange. I quite liked DAI combat. It seemed to me a natural iteration of the formula. To a more fluid combat. Ever since 3D became the dominating factor the drive for action-oriented gameplay seemed the natural progression. TBS is more of a niche today. Granted, the path to action RPG has been stony. Snip
To a grognard like me, a natural progression is not. There is too much fluidity... no control of the situation... from my perspective anyway. That's what I don't like about it. Yet, ME3MP is still awesome...
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 14, 2020 12:38:43 GMT
Strange. I quite liked DAI combat. It seemed to me a natural iteration of the formula. To a more fluid combat. Ever since 3D became the dominating factor the drive for action-oriented gameplay seemed the natural progression. TBS is more of a niche today. Granted, the path to action RPG has been stony. Snip
To a grognard like me, a natural progression is not. There is too much fluidity... no control of the situation... from my perspective anyway. That's what I don't like about it. Yet, ME3MP is still awesome...
I think it works with a proper skill system and proper pacing. It's grand strategy that I struggle with. I'm fine with TBS too. I think DOS2 had a good formula. A very good one actually. |
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 14, 2020 14:44:43 GMT
Da2 combat (on hard and nightmare) is awesome Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely loved random respawning enemies, appearing in the midst of my flank and wrecking the shit out of my squishy magic users. Loads of fun. |
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Post by kalreegar on Sept 14, 2020 15:17:44 GMT
Da2 combat (on hard and nightmare) is awesome Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely loved random respawning enemies, appearing in the midst of my flank and wrecking the shit out of my squishy magic users. Loads of fun. That's why you need to use good strategy, tactical pause and never relax. Absultely thrilling. Recently, I have successfully completed a "one life permadeath" playthrough, from DA:O to DA:I. Hard difficult. Origins was a good challenge, but avoiding stupid mistakes, and filling up the inventory with poison, bombs and potions, you can proceed quite easily. Only a few bosses require special attention, and I found myself in real difficulty only 4-5 times. Inquisition is very easy, too easy, after the first 5-6 hours you become virtually invincible (especially as a tank), you can also escape from the fight if things go wrong... almost impossible to be killed. Only descent presents a level of challenge above average and was vaguely risky. but DRAGON AGE 2... man, dragon age 2 made me spit blood. Every resource had to be properly used. Every coin well spent. I have faced at least 30 fights to the death, in which the border between victory and defeat was in the balance until the end, in which I had to weigh every tactical choice. Unforgettable I am not saying that the combat system of DA2 has no flaws, but IMO it is the most refined, balanced, tactical of the three.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 14, 2020 15:25:37 GMT
That's why you need to use good strategy, tactical pause and never relax  I can't make use of strategy, when enemies materialize out of thin air and potentially one shot my party members. It's not fun. It's anything but fun. In fact, it is the exact opposite of fun. It is the fun singularity, a black hole that sucks all the fun out of everything. |
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Post by kalreegar on Sept 14, 2020 15:51:19 GMT
That's why you need to use good strategy, tactical pause and never relax I can't make use of strategy, when enemies materialize out of thin air and potentially one shot my party members. It's not fun. It's anything but fun. In fact, it is the exact opposite of fun. It is the fun singularity, a black hole that sucks all the fun out of everything. of course you can. " enemies materializing out of thin air and potentially one shot my party members" is an event that can happen. It's part of the game. You know it will happen. It's a strategic factor. You have to consider it, try to prevent it from happening (monitoring the situation, trying to keep everyone at maximum life, avoiding too unbalanced parties etc). And if/when it happens, be ready to resurrect the fallen. It can be fun, or it can be frustrating. It depends, it is subjective. But DA2 has definitely the most tactical, difficult and balanced combat system of the three, there is no doubt. There is no way to really "break it", become virtually invincible after 10-15 hours of play and face every fight with your mind off, with the autopilot (unlike the other two). If Bioware doesn't want to bring "tactical challenge" back, at least they should make the combat system fun and challenging in terms of reflexes, dodges, parries, timing etc.
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