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Post by 10 million missing votes on Nov 14, 2024 1:19:26 GMT
Straight out of the horse's mouth "nobody likes being a woman". Holy shit. The hate. I'm really surprised they've gotten away with this shit. You put any other group there besides men and it's a big can of 'ism and 'ist that they never recover from. The fact that nobody seems to be talking about this line is a deeply depressing statement on the culture itself. The boob/ass slider and the Brock Lesnar jaws all make sense when you look at it from the perspective of someone who hates women. wait was this really said can i have source?
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Post by emissaryoflies on Nov 14, 2024 1:27:38 GMT
Say no more fam.
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Post by 10 million missing votes on Nov 14, 2024 1:28:57 GMT
wow, maybe i was wrong about the game......
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 14, 2024 2:33:05 GMT
Busche and Weekes (and I suppose rest of the writing staff) absolutely had a plan for how to include more trans-related things in the game, and some of the writing around it was complete garbage. But I genuinely think this is a subject that will almost never be well explored or included in a video game setting, especially a medieval inspired fantasy RPG of all things. It's just really hard to write well without it feeling really narcissistic, navel-gazing or transparently ideological/political. I'd say the same about any coming out stories though. I'm not sure "medieval inspired fantasy" is relevant here. Thedas is awfully different from medieval Europe in this particular aspect.
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Post by grallon on Nov 14, 2024 3:10:09 GMT
A little gem I found. Remember what I suggested a few pages back? To re-write this story into something palatable? Someone on Youtube sort of did it, couching an engaging synopsis for a revised Act 1 in less than 20m.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 14, 2024 3:45:12 GMT
Who would have thought Dragon Age would be so misogynist?
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Post by shagohad on Nov 14, 2024 5:52:12 GMT
I'm about 50 hours into the game and Taash just... makes me sad. And tired. I was gonna put in my own two cents on them, but people have already said it. Genuinely, I miss when things could just be... bad. Ever since the Ghostbusters reboot, any time anything fails its always blamed on the fans being some kind of bigot. I was browsing the steam forums a few days ago and most defenses of Taash's writing was 'You don't want queer people to exist in this series'. I'm just so tired. I want bad things to be bad again. The culture war has leeched the joy out of entertainment.
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Post by rocketpineapple on Nov 14, 2024 6:35:25 GMT
I want to like Taash and there are aspects of their character I like, and grappling with identity isn't even a bad character storyline. But...ugh. So many little things I feel like are supposed to make the audience side with them that don't come off that way at all.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 14, 2024 6:54:04 GMT
I actually did not like BG3's main story much. It's, for lack of a better word, too Larian, where absolutely everything is always at stake and every story arc has something do to with gods, the universe and everything. I like DAV's story better.
Meanwhile, in the realization of details, in terms of roleplaying and reactivity, and in its companion writing, BG3 beats the shit out of DAV and then some.
As for the tadpoles, they changed that in one of the patches. Now you can get a bad ending at the last minute if you eat too many of them. I still avoid them since I do not envision my characters to be insane.
Also, I'm a Lae'zel person . To be fair, that's always been the plots of both Baldur's Gates - dealing with Saervok and his plans to become the new Lord of Murder, to Irenicus stealing your soul to find a way to return to immortality, and where you finally clash with him....to Throne of Bhaal, and the entire premise of that expansion - dealing with the Gods has always been a thing. Especially since the game is set shortly after the Time of Troubles, where the entire nation was just shown the Gods do in fact, exist.
Also a Lae'zel person What I mean is the scope. In the Bhaalspawn saga, you influence the fate of a region in a dramatic but reversible way, and you can ascend to the position of a minor deity with long-lasting, but less dramatic effects. You can't, say, destroy the whole setting like in BG3. Also, we don't deal with gods directly.
Meanwhile, in BG3 you can take over the multiverse or kill off absolutely everything, irreversibly, which robs the story of meaning in my opinion. Also several companions' stories deal directly with gods - Lae'zel and Vlaakith, Gale and Mystra, Shadowheart and Shar. I don't dislike those stories (except for Gale's), but together it's a bit much.
Some say DAV is similar, but the places affected by the story are not actually and irreversibly destroyed. They are only destroyed enough to make dramatic changes to the political and cultural landscape (which was, I'm sure, the main intention behind it, but that's a different topic).
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Post by Reznore on Nov 14, 2024 6:57:02 GMT
Who would have thought Dragon Age would be so misogynist? What I got from DATV is not more understanding toward non binary. It's just some folks are desperate to be part of the LGBTQ even if they don't belong there. I mean Taash manage to ponder if crows male and female wear capes...like she was raised amish. When girl was going to be a berserker under the Qun, and they are female ben hassrath armor and all...And she's part of LOF. With female treasure hunter. It's so paper thin it's trying to bounce out of the mother being a "scientist" who fit everything into rigid category but alas the mother makes more sense than Taash. So of course she gets killed after saying "they." I could change nothing about me or my life and declare I'm feeling non binary and hop on to that LGBTQ train today. That's how dumb this all is.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 14, 2024 8:36:26 GMT
Solas is used willingly or not to substain the veil. I don't care about Solas. I don't think he's that well written. Two characters gets butchered to serve his redemption/anti redemption. Mythal (and even Morrigan to an extend) and Varric. You don't even anything interesting like Bellara helping Solas because she'd want the pre veil world back. Just this guy who I couldn't wait to stab and be done with. I didn't even enjoy the last act, and most people loved it. This is what I found disappointing about the so called great finale. What did they do to Mythal? Also, when they showed the scene between Solas and Flemeth they altered the wording, adding in extra lines that were never shown and seemed to confirm their interpretation of it. I had always thought it possible to argue that Mythal willingly left Flemeth to transfer to Solas but essentially they seemed to imply he just stole her power. Did Mythal not want him to destroy the Veil? How would she have had the reckoning to "shake the very heavens" had Rook not interrupted the ritual to re-imprison the gods?
It was noticeable how none of the characters betray you in DAV. Couldn't they even have had someone like Strife be dodgy whether working for Solas or the other two gods? However, I was puzzled where all Solas agents and followers disappeared to. The Inquisition was meant to be crawling with them. Tevinter Nights had them active in the world assisting his plans. Then nothing in DAV. Before the game came out I thought that might be one of the more interesting aspects of navigating the world in trying to thwart his plans, because you never know entirely who you can trust among the elves, along with the Qun working along parallel lines but not wishing to share their information because they guessed that the Inquisition was as leaky as a sieve (they have non kossith working for them too). Case in point, the last story in Tevinter Nights where Solas infiltrated a secret meeting himself. The Executors were also side-lined to be possibly reintroduced next game (if there is one) but the secret ending suggesting they had been behind practically ever major event we had been involved in was just lame. They also had normal looking agents from known races as well as their creepy masked representatives.
Yet ultimately everyone was trustworthy, even the abomination, and everyone was just one big supportive family. Frankly, it was really such a let down.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 14, 2024 8:44:28 GMT
I could change nothing about me or my life and declare I'm feeling non binary and hop on to that LGBTQ train today. That's how dumb this all is. That's what I've thought for some time. Most of us could claim to be non-binary because most of us aren't walking stereotypes.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 14, 2024 8:44:34 GMT
I mean, a lot of people (me included) criticising the game are LGBTQ+, so it would be kind of funny to call us anti woke, when we are literally the antichrists for those incels. I take issue with the over the top writing and modern terms, problems and dialogues and with making the diverse character the most unlikeable of the group. It is the exact opposite of what we want. A character should foremost be an interesting character and if that character happens to be homosexual or gender fluid, no one would care - look at Maervaris or Dorian. They are both well loved in teh fandom, because they are well written.
If a story doesn't fit diversity, then I won't demand it. I can feel with a character that is different from me, no problem. Just give me well written characters and stories.
Here is for example a review from a trans man and he points mostly the same things out, that irked me too:
I hate to say this, but those incels that view lgbt people as the Antichrist are sadly the vast majority of people, even today, as the current political climate has unfortunately proved. I see it every day. Yeah, I know and I'm right now very glad to not live in the US ( sorry for politics). Still games with 'woke' content can be major successes as BG3 and older DA games have proven. So well written characters can still make all the difference.
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andorvex
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 14, 2024 8:47:15 GMT
Taash isn't even the worst companion imo
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 14, 2024 9:20:58 GMT
Busche and Weekes (and I suppose rest of the writing staff) absolutely had a plan for how to include more trans-related things in the game, and some of the writing around it was complete garbage. But I genuinely think this is a subject that will almost never be well explored or included in a video game setting, especially a medieval inspired fantasy RPG of all things. It's just really hard to write well without it feeling really narcissistic, navel-gazing or transparently ideological/political. I'd say the same about any coming out stories though. I think it can be done. It's just that all this identitarian crap is in the way, this elevation of accidental traits into an identity embraced by a group as something sacred, around which they have constructed a religion. DAI's relevant characters - Dorian and Krem - are notably unaffected by this, and that's why they work for almost everyone.
And if people object to calling this a religion, let me use Émile Durkheim's definition of religion to illustrate this:
Religion can be defined as.... ...a set of beliefs [usually regarded as implausible by non-adherents, that's not Durkheim but Attran]... ("trans women are women", "gender and sex are unrelated", "sex is not binary") ...and practices... (ritualistic mutual affirmation, diversity training, self-examination for any -isms, affirmation of one's allegiance by calling non-adherents -ists and -phobes) ...related to something sacred, ie something set apart and forbidden... (people's identities, which you are not allowed to question and must always affirm) ...that unites into a moral community [...]... (the various XXX communities) ...all that adhere to them.
So what we have here is a religion of narcissistic self-adoration. Do away with that, and we may be able to get to a kind of inclusivity that is both helpful and interesting. Because I don't know about others, but I find it interesting to occasionally explore all these things in story-driven games. I just don't like having beliefs imposed on me, and I reserve the right to question people's self-perception and their co-optation of general-use terms which belong to everyone.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 14, 2024 9:57:27 GMT
I hate to say this, but those incels that view lgbt people as the Antichrist are sadly the vast majority of people, even today, as the current political climate has unfortunately proved. I see it every day. Is that really so? I don't live in the US, but I've heard of several studies that claim American conservatives are more tolerant than ever. Do people actually express hate for LQBT... people as such a lot, or do they just lash out at activists for being called -ists and -phobes for voicing perfectly reasonable opinions? Also, it only takes a small minority of hateful people to poison the social environment, so anecdotal evidence is not a good indicator of people's attitudes in general.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 14, 2024 10:01:52 GMT
Taash isn't even the worst companion imo Taash might well be my favorite if not for the way her gender issues were addressed. DAV lacks characters with edges, and Taash is one. A badass dragon hunter who starts out as something of an immature brat, but grows out of it in the course of her story.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by helios969 on Nov 14, 2024 10:09:26 GMT
I hate to say this, but those incels that view lgbt people as the Antichrist are sadly the vast majority of people, even today, as the current political climate has unfortunately proved. I see it every day. Is that really so? I don't live in the US, but I've heard of several studies that claim American conservatives are more tolerant than ever. Do people actually express hate for LQBT... people as such a lot, or do they just lash out at activists for being called -ists and -phobes for voicing perfectly reasonable opinions? Also, it only takes a small minority of hateful people to poison the social environment, so anecdotal evidence is not a good indicator of people's attitudes in general. Yeah, no...it's not even close to the majority. Most people couldn't care less...they simply do not want other peoples' ideology and agenda crammed down their throats. People don't want others' religious values pushed upon them either it doesn't make them anti-Christianity or any against other religions for that matter. Basically, just keep your ideology to yourself and it's all good. It's only when the extremes say you have to believe a certain way that problems arise.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 14, 2024 10:13:08 GMT
None of this has anything to do with the game.
So drop it, thanks.
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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 14, 2024 11:16:01 GMT
I hate to say this, but those incels that view lgbt people as the Antichrist are sadly the vast majority of people, even today, as the current political climate has unfortunately proved. I see it every day. Is that really so? I don't live in the US, but I've heard of several studies that claim American conservatives are more tolerant than ever. Do people actually express hate for LQBT... people as such a lot, or do they just lash out at activists for being called -ists and -phobes for voicing perfectly reasonable opinions? Also, it only takes a small minority of hateful people to poison the social environment, so anecdotal evidence is not a good indicator of people's attitudes in general. Must be just my country then. Anglo-Saxon countries are far more tolerant, even compared to other western countries.
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Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Nov 14, 2024 11:18:31 GMT
I have 45h behind me, and have just started the final act. To be honest, I'm a bit embarrassed by this start, because I feel like I'm doing a repeat of Mass Effect 2 - they're not ready, I have to solve their problems, then get them together and let me guess.... I'm going to send them out like Tali to the vents ? At least a bit of originality would be useful, copying things like this from your own previous games is just.... sad. Other than that, I have very mixed feelings. Great things - such as beautiful location design, quite good main story, quite nice exploration and combat system - and on the other hand no choices, awful dialogues, companions so polite that honey is pouring out of their mouths. When I saw the first meeting with the Inquisitor I was embarrassed, just waiting for Rook to ask for an autograph and a joint photo.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 14, 2024 11:21:14 GMT
Interesting perspective that criticizes things from a somewhat different angle than I do. I'm a little surprised it wasn't mentioned how ignorant and ironically intolerant Taash comes across a lot. Yesterday I had the infamous conversation with Emmrich about how Taash is creeped out by necromancy. And Emmerich was extremely apologetic while Taash just walked all over Emmrich and couldn't understand how other people cannot like talking about dragons. Now even if we ignore how dragons in Thedas are mostly associated with the blight and destruction and her comment feels like some D&D nerd getting upset over their fantasy stuff rather than an opinion anybody in the setting would have, Taash frequently comes across as a crybaby who is just unpleasant to be around and people need to walk on eggshells around them. That would seriously piss me off were I non binary. I'm not saying minority group characters shouldn't have flaws but I get the feeling this was not an intentional contradiction of the character. Especially given how the others are basically the nicest people without such flaws. Which in turn is poor writing too, of course. So to me the message is stay away from those drama queen snowflakes. And that's sad.
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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 14, 2024 11:22:11 GMT
I'm about 50 hours into the game and Taash just... makes me sad. And tired. I was gonna put in my own two cents on them, but people have already said it. Genuinely, I miss when things could just be... bad. Ever since the Ghostbusters reboot, any time anything fails its always blamed on the fans being some kind of bigot. I was browsing the steam forums a few days ago and most defenses of Taash's writing was 'You don't want queer people to exist in this series'. I'm just so tired. I want bad things to be bad again. The culture war has leeched the joy out of entertainment. I don't understand that way of thinking. I have exactly zero issue with lgbt characters existing, what I want is for them to be characters. Last time I played Andromeda I talked to Suvi, a science officer who happens to be a lesbian, about the existence of god and a divine architect in the universe (my atheist Ryder politely disagreed with her religious beliefs while respecting them). That game treats lgbt characters as characters like any other, not tokens or self-inserts to lecture the player. DAV should be like this
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Post by mele on Nov 14, 2024 12:21:31 GMT
Did this thread get invaded by 4chan or something? Trans people existing is political and "ideology being shoved down our throat"? Getting flashback to when they said the same thing about women, and then gays, in games. Same talking points, with "medieval world", "realism" and all. Pointing out that sex and gender are different things and that they are not binary(intersex exists, people) is irrational religious thinking? You literally have to put in work to be bothered by someone else's gender. Maybe you're the one clinging to an old rigid status-quo and treating it like something sacred, a religion maybe?
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 14, 2024 12:25:22 GMT
Where did anyone say any of these things? Did I miss something?
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