ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Feb 7, 2021 0:43:23 GMT
And now EA has deleted the game keys for Steam copies of ME1 and ME2. Owners of Steam copies of ME2 now have NO legit way to purchase additional DLC for their game. (I'm assuming this has something to do with MELE, which is why I'm posting it here.) I just checked, mine are there. But a lot of people are complaining about it. So it does not seem to be universal at least not yet. I did add my mass effect games to origin at one point, maybe that is why mine are still on steam?
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 7, 2021 0:43:33 GMT
I don't think we've evolved past looking at butts. ???!!!???!!!???!!!
You are being utterly intellectually dishonest!
I have made blatant and obvious statements I am not opposed to sexy butts in my videos games and neither is BioWare as we seen in MEA. All I've been discussing this entire time there a specific Miranda's butt shots are in context inappropriate and do disservice to her character's story.
The fact that you are not only ignoring it, but you seem to pulling a strawman as you keep arguing I'm against butt shots in any context. Same is the case with other users you've been arguing in this thread.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Feb 7, 2021 0:44:56 GMT
I never even got to see Garrus without his armor/clothing during my romance scene... I do believe you should have. I think it is a common enough complaint. Also, no krogan romance with Wrex or Grunt and no nude Krogan models. Or naked Thane. What were Bioware ever thinking? Too be fair up through M3 all the sex scenes were pretty tame. It was DAI on they started really showing stuff. I'd prefer for future titles they roll back to more ME1 levels but I suspect I am in the minority on that so whatever.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 7, 2021 0:45:33 GMT
Oh yeah, Mario, Link, Master Chief, and so on are all famous for those butt shots. :rolleyes: You’re not even trying anymore. Obviously not. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but you can't deny that part of the popularity of ME's characters is sex appeal. But they are popular and have outlasted in popularity a ton of their contemporaries and even recent replacements/competitors. I’d say you are vastly overselling said sex appeal as for why these characters are popular. I mean the most popular love interest is a Dinosaur bird man who has half of his face scarred and is never seen below the neck. But quite frankly, I don’t care that you and those in your camp complain so long as BioWare continues to ignore your idiotic tantrums.
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Post by decafhigh on Feb 7, 2021 0:48:39 GMT
Or gamers upset about it should grow up instead I simply don't believe it. If anything people just made fun of it because of how bad the models looked. Things were different back then, there wasn't this ridiculous drive to remove anything slightly feminine from games (and media in general) back then. The worst you had was someone complaining about "boob armor" before they were laughed at by everyone else. Wow, things have really gone down the crapper since then. Guess enjoy what you can while it still lasts before everything is made into androgynous blobs all wearing matching grey jumpsuits. Oh what fun...
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Feb 7, 2021 0:49:15 GMT
I do believe you should have. I think it is a common enough complaint. Also, no krogan romance with Wrex or Grunt and no nude Krogan models. Or naked Thane. What were Bioware ever thinking? I didn't even get to bang the bald elf in Inquisition. They have deprived me sorely, but I am a gracious person. I will forgive them, all they need to do is give me a lead supporting role in the next Blasto movie and a job as a researcher at Bioware.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 7, 2021 0:50:05 GMT
You are being utterly intellectually dishonest!
I have made blatant and obvious statements I am not opposed to sexy butts in my videos games and neither is BioWare as we seen in MEA. All I've been discussing this entire time there a specific Miranda's butt shots are in context inappropriate and do disservice to her character's story.
The fact that you are not only ignoring it, but you seem to pulling a strawman as you keep arguing I'm against butt shots in any context. Same is the case with other users you've been arguing in this thread. Well, I can't relate. I never had anything against the butt shots, it never took me out of the game, regardless of what was being discussed. That scene included. And apparently it is the same for a lot of people. I get that it bothers you and some other people, but as I said, it is more than ... it is exactly the type of approach Bioware takes to why they did it that rubs me the wrong way and I don't accept it. And I understand this situation is a problem to you, but it is a problem to me, too. My problem is what this means for the future and future Bioware titles specifically.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Feb 7, 2021 0:50:10 GMT
Well, if you like the smell of vomit on your turian boytoy... 😁 Hey, the deal was you get his shirt and I get him shirtless, no vomit involved!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 7, 2021 0:50:42 GMT
I do believe you should have. I think it is a common enough complaint. Also, no krogan romance with Wrex or Grunt and no nude Krogan models. Or naked Thane. What were Bioware ever thinking? I didn't even get to bang the bald elf in Inquisition. Well you did, just offscreen according to the dialogue.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 7, 2021 0:51:55 GMT
You are being utterly intellectually dishonest!
I have made blatant and obvious statements I am not opposed to sexy butts in my videos games and neither is BioWare as we seen in MEA. All I've been discussing this entire time there a specific Miranda's butt shots are in context inappropriate and do disservice to her character's story.
The fact that you are not only ignoring it, but you seem to pulling a strawman as you keep arguing I'm against butt shots in any context. Same is the case with other users you've been arguing in this thread. Well, I can't relate. I never had anything against the butt shots, it never took me out of the game, regardless of what was being discussed. That scene included. And apparently it is the same for a lot of people. I get that it bothers you and some other people, but as I said, it is more than ... it is exactly the type of approach Bioware takes to why they did it that rubs me the wrong way and I don't accept it. And I understand this situation is a problem to you, but it is a problem to me, too. My problem is what this means for the future and future Bioware titles specifically. The same future BioWare titles you already stated numerous times you weren’t going to buy anyway? Also BioWare has been becoming more explicit in this regard as the games go on unfortunately, so I think the butt shots in proper context are fine.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 7, 2021 0:54:55 GMT
Well, if you like the smell of vomit on your turian boytoy... 😁 Hey, the deal was you get his shirt and I get him shirtless, no vomit involved! Hey, I can't help it if I keep having birdmanxhuman images flashing in my head!
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Feb 7, 2021 0:55:20 GMT
And now EA has deleted the game keys for Steam copies of ME1 and ME2. Owners of Steam copies of ME2 now have NO legit way to purchase additional DLC for their game. (I'm assuming this has something to do with MELE, which is why I'm posting it here.) Mass Effect 1 and 2 can still be purchased on Steam. And as I've researched on this for a short while, ME2 DLC Bundle pack was never put on Steam and can only be purchased on Origin, but can be connected with your Steam account ME2 copy.
I'm pretty sure this is more related to EA ending BioWare points, as that was the only way to buy ME2 and ME3 DLC's for a long time. Which was really scummy of BioWare, as they never put DLC's on sales on PC, until they ditched the system for DLC purchases.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 7, 2021 0:55:29 GMT
I mean the most popular love interest is a Dinosaur bird man who has half of his face scarred and is never seen below the neck. Oh, I would greatly challenge that notion. In terms of fanfiction, perhaps, but there's no matching the sheer amount of black latex clad Cerberus butt and bouncing blue titties art out there. But quite frankly, I don’t care that you and those in your camp complain so long as BioWare continues to ignore your idiotic tantrums. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Too be fair up through M3 all the sex scenes were pretty tame. It was DAI on they started really showing stuff. I'd prefer for future titles they roll back to more ME1 levels but I suspect I am in the minority on that so whatever. Which is why I say I am weary what this turn means for the future. Not just in terms of sex scenes, or camera angles, but also character design. Which, if I am allowed to say, I find incredibly bland and generic in Bioware's recent past, to even absolutely forgettable.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 7, 2021 0:56:46 GMT
I'm going to be honest, first time I heard any complaint was 2019. I simply don't believe it. The blowback is obviously bigger than the push for it, it seems to me. So don't do it. Or gamers upset about it should grow up instead. If this minor change upsets them so much, then that's their personal character failing. You know the same can be said for those who go out of their to find sexism in video games regardless of context.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 7, 2021 1:01:30 GMT
The same future BioWare titles you already stated numerous times you weren’t going to buy anyway? Yes. If they continue doing the things they have been doing. Which is why I said that if Bioware goes back on this camera angle change, I will buy the remaster, which I had no intention of buying, just to show my support. Even if I never even download the game or run the launcher. Also BioWare has been becoming more explicit in this regard as the games go on unfortunately, so I think the butt shots in proper context are fine. Well, maybe this will be a starting point, since, as Mac Walters put it, they have "evolved". Not to say that the human species hasn't "evolved", but in just 10 years, wow. That's some jump in the evolutionary scale. I wonder what species they are now. Homo Superior? I hope Mac got some cool powers along with it. Maybe he got Biotics.
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Post by phaedon on Feb 7, 2021 1:17:40 GMT
Is that the fault of BW for changing a couple of camera angles to fit their own sensibilities or of the grifters who want to use video games to fight a culture war? This can also go both ways. Why wasn't this an issue 10 years ago?Because their sensibilities and what they consider to be appropriate have changed over the past 10 years? Mine have. Haven't yours? What's the other way of "It's a controversy because grifters want to use video games to fight a culture war?". "BioWare created a controversy with their video games because they wanted to incite a culture war?" No, I don't think it can go both ways. If you think so, argue that position explicitly.
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abedsbrother
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Abedsbrother
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Post by abedsbrother on Feb 7, 2021 1:17:55 GMT
And now EA has deleted the game keys for Steam copies of ME1 and ME2. Owners of Steam copies of ME2 now have NO legit way to purchase additional DLC for their game. (I'm assuming this has something to do with MELE, which is why I'm posting it here.) Mass Effect 1 and 2 can still be purchased on Steam. And as I've researched on this for a short while, ME2 DLC Bundle pack was never put on Steam and can only be purchased on Origin, but can be connected with your Steam account ME2 copy.
I'm pretty sure this is more related to EA ending BioWare points, as that was the only way to buy ME2 and ME3 DLC's for a long time. Which was really scummy of BioWare, as they never put DLC's on sales on PC, until they ditched the system for DLC purchases.
I know how the Steam ME2 DLC system works. I wrote the top-rated Steam guide on it years ago and made a YouTube tutorial (currently at almost 50,000 views) to go with the guide. - You have to register your Steam ME2 key with EA, then purchase the DLC bundle on Origin, and download & install the DLC manually from EA's help page. - Owning the game (registering your Steam key) is a pre-requisite to purchasing the DLC bundle. - If you don't purchase the DLC bundle, you can install all the DLC you want but it won't detect the installed DLC as legit (and will lock you out from accessing them until you purchase the DLC). - Registering the Steam ME2 key provided a free copy of ME2 on Origin. So EA couldn't tell which platform you were using (Steam or Origin) to log in to the Cerberus network. Just that when you logged in, it checked whether the content was registered to your account, and allowed you access to what you owned. Now the only option for Steam owners of ME2 to legitimately acquire the ME2 DLC is to REPURCHASE ME2 on Origin - because there is no Steam game key to register with EA. EA cannot know that someone owns the game on their account unless it was purchased on Origin. This isn't an issue for ME1 since there is no online login and the DLC are free, but for ME2 Electronic Arts is currently forcing Steam customers who purchase ME2 to double-dip if they want to play more than the base game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by abedsbrother on Feb 7, 2021 1:20:58 GMT
And now EA has deleted the game keys for Steam copies of ME1 and ME2. Owners of Steam copies of ME2 now have NO legit way to purchase additional DLC for their game. (I'm assuming this has something to do with MELE, which is why I'm posting it here.) I just checked, mine are there. But a lot of people are complaining about it. So it does not seem to be universal at least not yet. I did add my mass effect games to origin at one point, maybe that is why mine are still on steam? I added my keys to Origin as well (years ago) and my Steam keys are gone.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 7, 2021 1:24:56 GMT
I remember a few complaints. I remember a whole lot more with Quiet. I also remember a lot of really reaching excuses to validate why the camera focusing on her stretching her back in a bikini top making her boobs very visible in the camera was totally acceptable. I assume most of those excuses were written one handed. There isn't anything wrong with having "sexy" women in games. Hell there isn't anything wrong with women using their sex appeal in games. As long as it is supported by in game events. If a woman is trying to seduce someone and they cut to ass and titty shots to highlight their seductive actions that is fine. If it just a regular conversation and they cut to an ass or titty shot for no reason other then to cut to an ass or titty shot that is eye rollingly stupid.
And I'm not some prude or anything like that. I've been watching porn for years. But there are times and places for shit like that. An ass shot for no reason other then an ass shot is just there to get 13 year old boys erections. I can't speak for MGSV, I didn't follow it. I did hear some complaints. And Japan is ... they're their own culture. I'm not ... even if I could argue with them, it's not my place. Effectively, I will either buy the game and play it, or I won't. But clearly it did something right, because everyone knows Quiet. In my post here, I had a problem remembering the names of the characters and I still can't remember what Cole looked like. Which is funny, considering his power in-game. Also, the adult part of ME character depictions has, partly, allowed the franchise to survive far longer than it logically would, considering the "turbulence" it has been through the past few years... decade. Under different circumstances, without the lasting impact of the crew, this franchise would be dead. So whether we like it or not, Bioware has benefited from this greatly and if they don't like it ... I can't imagine what studio would be angry at its success. Like, we made characters that, even 10 years later, 14 for some, are still relevant in minds of gamers everywhere. How many franchises can boast that? How many franchises have that power to sustain them? Very few and Bioware is unbelievably lucky to have them.
Oh please even Japan knows what they are doing when they pull shit like that. Just because their culture is far more accepting of sex then most repressed western societies doesn't mean they don't know when they are purposefully sexualizing something just for the sake of sexualizing them. Kojima's pathetic excuse as to why she had to be naked because she breaths though her skin now is transparently obvious. There was no case of any male characters walking around in skimpy cloths with a large and obvious dick that waves in your face for a reason.
Cutting to a camera angle that primarily shows off a character's ass during a regular conversation is not "adult" character depictions. Or I should say it is "adult" by the definition of a horny teenager who see's a computer rendered butt and giggles to themselves getting a slight chub and plans a one handed salute later. The actual adult aspects of the game are not tied to showing off Miranda's ass during a regular non relationship conversation because her character is so shallow and under developed her ass and tits are the only part about her that has anything of value. Shit even the more overtly sexual Jack who literally just had nipple straps didn't randomly throw the camera on her tits for an entire section of a conversation.
Moving the camera position up so her ass is not the only thing in sight isn't hurting the game and the only people who are complaining about it are the kind of people who paused the game and had a quick one handed fun time with themselves and are now upset they can't do it again in 4k.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 7, 2021 1:25:13 GMT
Or gamers upset about it should grow up instead. If this minor change upsets them so much, then that's their personal character failing. Some gamers: "Wow, these feminist players are such snowflakes, they get upset about anything!" Same gamers: Why did you change one camera so I can't stare at a woman's ass during this particular dialogue anymore?! Censorship I tell you!I never even got to see Garrus without his armor/clothing during my romance scene... These same feminists who cry and blame white men the moment people criticize their criticism?
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Post by colfoley on Feb 7, 2021 1:29:45 GMT
i get it and the new shot is obviously better from a quality standpoint, but I'm going to miss the energy lancing effect. The tone and atmosphere in regards to the narrative all gone for lens flare. Before the crew arrives on Eden we are told that the place is like paradise. Then when land planetside we are greeted with the opposite scene, a hellish crimson sky that contradicts the colony's implied namesake. The lighting had added immensely to the mood of the sequence and hinted at Sovereign's malevolent nature. I think the real reason for the 'atmosphere' and red unclear lighting was more engine weakenesses or graphical problems they were having at the time. IE they probably wanted it to look more like what it is in the LE but couldn't afford it. And also make it look more like it did in Mass Effect 3 as well which one of the...videos I was watching...speculated that was the entire point and it does work. Yes I am going to miss the energy crackling effect on Soverign, that is definitley a point off and the lens flare is probably another half a point but its not that bad of a change and if it makes Eden Prime consistent across the board a net win. Besides we can also see smoke in the distance so who knows what else they will do to make it look like a proper warzone.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 7, 2021 1:32:31 GMT
Because their sensibilities and what they consider to be appropriate have changed over the past 10 years? Mine have. Haven't yours? No, I wouldn't say so. Maybe. If they have, it happened so seamlessly that I wouldn't even have understood it. But definitely not to the point that I'd be miffed by a woman's butt. What's the other way of "It's a controversy because grifters want to use video games to fight a culture war?". Actually, I'd say it's the same accusation hurled from the opposite direction. Which is why I say it goes both ways. Neil Druckman, for example, said it proudly and blatantly with TLoU2. He even gave a lecture/presentation about it. I'd be willing to give the man the benefit of the doubt, but he went straight out and said it. We've had all sorts of people in any medium saying things like that. Alex Kurtzman came out and said that he uses Star Trek as a platform to push his politics, outright admitted to it in the livestream he had with the Discovery/Picard cast several months ago. Why would Bioware be any different? These are exactly the types of "changes" one would expect. Is it definitive? No. But it is suspicious and the whole "evolved" choice of words Mac put out really rubs me the wrong way. But we are at the point that, whether this is absolutely 100% honest or not, we're not sure of either. And by experience in the industry the past few years, it more than usually isn't honest. Can we be wrong? Absolutely.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 7, 2021 1:34:20 GMT
Oh please even Japan knows what they are doing when they pull shit like that. Just because their culture is far more accepting of sex then most repressed western societies doesn't mean they don't know when they are purposefully sexualizing something just for the sake of sexualizing them. Kojima's pathetic excuse as to why she had to be naked because she breaths though her skin now is transparently obvious. There was no case of any male characters walking around in skimpy cloths with a large and obvious dick that waves in your face for a reason.
Cutting to a camera angle that primarily shows off a character's ass during a regular conversation is not "adult" character depictions. Or I should say it is "adult" by the definition of a horny teenager who see's a computer rendered butt and giggles to themselves getting a slight chub and plans a one handed salute later. The actual adult aspects of the game are not tied to showing off Miranda's ass during a regular non relationship conversation because her character is so shallow and under developed her ass and tits are the only part about her that has anything of value. Shit even the more overtly sexual Jack who literally just had nipple straps didn't randomly throw the camera on her tits for an entire section of a conversation.
Moving the camera position up so her ass is not the only thing in sight isn't hurting the game and the only people who are complaining about it are the kind of people who paused the game and had a quick one handed fun time with themselves and are now upset they can't do it again in 4k. Well, I don't think there's anything else to discuss here. You have your opinion, I have mine, I am not going to pretend that you aren't set in yours and have no intention of changing it, any more than I am. Thank you for your understanding.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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ahglock
2,887
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Feb 7, 2021 1:40:53 GMT
I just checked, mine are there. But a lot of people are complaining about it. So it does not seem to be universal at least not yet. I did add my mass effect games to origin at one point, maybe that is why mine are still on steam? I added my keys to Origin as well (years ago) and my Steam keys are gone. Weird, I wonder why my keys are still there when others are gone.
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inherit
11823
0
Jun 12, 2022 11:43:15 GMT
112
phaedon
28
February 2021
phaedon
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Post by phaedon on Feb 7, 2021 1:41:35 GMT
Also BioWare has been becoming more explicit in this regard as the games go on unfortunately, so I think the butt shots in proper context are fine. Well, maybe this will be a starting point, since, as Mac Walters put it, they have "evolved". Not to say that the human species hasn't "evolved", but in just 10 years, wow. That's some jump in the evolutionary scale. I wonder what species they are now. Homo Superior? I hope Mac got some cool powers along with it. Maybe he got Biotics. As other people have mentioned, BioWare has produced progressively saucy romance scenes and furthermore, they aren't making any changes to Miranda's romance scene (which is the most explicit and fan servicey in the game). Maybe the reason the conversation has devolved to... evolution and human physiology (?) is because you are trying to make a vague anti-puritanical slippery slope argument when everything points to BioWare going in the exact opposite direction.
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