gkonone
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Post by gkonone on Dec 31, 2020 23:46:53 GMT
Yes, yes, and yes. I want my Shepard back. The one protagonist that got me to love this series, and the crew. The story wasn't over, it was just badly written as the writers had no clue. 'Your choices matter', no they didn't, in the end you were f*cked regardless. Shepard deserved better than that. As Miranda said 'Shepard is a bloody icon'.
I spent way too many hours enjoying this game with Shepard for it be over just like that. There is still a lot of potential here. Lets go 'Destroy' canon and relish in that sweet reunion, seeing all your favorite companions and LI's again. 'Are you up for one more story?'. I sure as hell am. Hope got us this far, it will carry us further.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 1, 2021 0:20:49 GMT
According to the guy, there's one more story. I like to have Shepard back. There have been suggestions/ideas how Shepard could return and what the story might be about for ME4. If Shepard doesn't return, I won't lose any sleep over it.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 1, 2021 3:17:36 GMT
Yes, yes, and yes. I want my Shepard back. The one protagonist that got me to love this series, and the crew. The story wasn't over, it was just badly written as the writers had no clue. 'Your choices matter', no they didn't, in the end you were f*cked regardless. Shepard deserved better than that. As Miranda said 'Shepard is a bloody icon'. I spent way too many hours enjoying this game with Shepard for it be over just like that. There is still a lot of potential here. Lets go 'Destroy' canon and relish in that sweet reunion, seeing all your favorite companions and LI's again. 'Are you up for one more story?'. I sure as hell am. Hope got us this far, it will carry us further. *shrugs* OK. How does Bio deliver that? I presume we're not talking about a situation where Bio just happens to canonize a situation which perfectly matches your Shepard. (Do you really have only one?) Or maybe we are, since you seem to be pro-canonization.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 1, 2021 12:13:35 GMT
Things can be badly written and still over.
In fact, it's better for badly written things to be over as quickly as possible.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Jan 5, 2021 0:00:17 GMT
I would like my shep back. Obviously the massive caveat to that is I would want his Miranda back too. Can see all npcs & variables being too much of an issue, in which case don’t have shep and jump forward in time leaving likes of liara alive.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 5, 2021 0:57:56 GMT
Things can be badly written and still over. In fact, it's better for badly written things to be over as quickly as possible. I don't agree. For example, the vast majority of the gaming public will tell you that Andromeda was badly written. Yet, I will ask for a sequel to it, for the fans that did like it, because they deserve the closure.
But I will argue that the timing for it now is extremely poor and it will produce worse results.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 5, 2021 2:43:46 GMT
Things can be badly written and still over. In fact, it's better for badly written things to be over as quickly as possible. I don't agree. For example, the vast majority of the gaming public will tell you that Andromeda was badly written. Yet, I will ask for a sequel to it, for the fans that did like it, because they deserve the closure.
But I will argue that the timing for it now is extremely poor and it will produce worse results.
Putting aside that I don't accept "majority opinion" as a good measure for anything at all, I wouldn't want a continuation of the adventures of Shepard and friends even if ME3 had been the best game in the world. I don't support crowding the market with endless reboots and sequels of existing franchises, I want to see more support for new IP.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 5, 2021 3:02:37 GMT
Putting aside that I don't accept "majority opinion" as a good measure for anything at all So you are going to discard any "majority opinion"? Of course that's not what that means. But for the majority opinion to be made, it needs to adhere to certain things, just as your opinion does. In the end it comes down to whether your opinion is more valid, or if it is only valid to you, or valid for a certain minority. If so, what purpose does your opinion serve, who does it help and in what way? In this case, regardless of what you believe, ME's market performance needs to be of a certain standard, because video games are a luxury product, not a necessity. People can do without ME, if what ME is serving isn't to their liking. In which case, even if you are correct, it won't help a future Andromeda's market performance. To believe otherwise is doing a disservice to your own goal. You need to be able to discern when and how a battle can be won, to offer the best result, otherwise do not engage in it. If you honestly believe that the next Andromeda is going to sell gangbusters, because it has ME in the name and made by Bioware, I would say you are severely disconnected from the current climate toward the company. I don't support crowding the market with endless reboots and sequels of existing franchises, I want to see more support for new IP. You got Anthem. So what's next? Who is going to bankroll the next Anthem? Who is going to trust Bioware to develop their next new IP? Although, from what I hear, they are already working on one, internally. In other words, we're not getting Anthem 2 after ME: Will Coninue, but a new IP. Which puts the next DA in ~2032. Unless the new IP gets canceled. Won't be the first one and I find that to be its most likely outcome.
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Post by biggydx on Jan 5, 2021 5:04:49 GMT
So for those who believe Shepard should come back, do you believe they should be the only main protagonist for the franchise, or that they should be featured in any games set in the Milky Way?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 5, 2021 7:56:57 GMT
I can personally say that I am only interested in Shepard returning with the squad in the capacity that it undoes my complaints with ME3. From there, I'm not really sure I even care about ME beyond that. I mean, I'm not going to object to them doing anything else, but I'm also not interested in it. At least we can say that, from there, we parted amicably. But I don't see Bioware doing anything to win me back as a customer, at this point. They spent the last decade telling me they don't want me, after all.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 5, 2021 9:12:10 GMT
Putting aside that I don't accept "majority opinion" as a good measure for anything at all So you are going to discard any "majority opinion"? Of course that's not what that means. But for the majority opinion to be made, it needs to adhere to certain things, just as your opinion does. In the end it comes down to whether your opinion is more valid, or if it is only valid to you, or valid for a certain minority. If so, what purpose does your opinion serve, who does it help and in what way? In this case, regardless of what you believe, ME's market performance needs to be of a certain standard, because video games are a luxury product, not a necessity. People can do without ME, if what ME is serving isn't to their liking. In which case, even if you are correct, it won't help a future Andromeda's market performance. To believe otherwise is doing a disservice to your own goal. You need to be able to discern when and how a battle can be won, to offer the best result, otherwise do not engage in it. If you honestly believe that the next Andromeda is going to sell gangbusters, because it has ME in the name and made by Bioware, I would say you are severely disconnected from the current climate toward the company. I don't support crowding the market with endless reboots and sequels of existing franchises, I want to see more support for new IP. You got Anthem. So what's next? Who is going to bankroll the next Anthem? Who is going to trust Bioware to develop their next new IP? Although, from what I hear, they are already working on one, internally. In other words, we're not getting Anthem 2 after ME: Will Coninue, but a new IP. Which puts the next DA in ~2032. Unless the new IP gets canceled. Won't be the first one and I find that to be its most likely outcome. I don't understand what point you're trying to make. You're talking about market forces, I'm telling you I don't care about the market, because the market is not an indicator of actual quality. I'm not trying to help people with my opinions. I don’t form or express my opinions for the benefit of others, that would be a colossal waste of time. Who do you think you're helping with your opinions? And all this rambling about validity and standards? It's all totally arbitrary nonsense that serves no purpose except to create in-groups and out-groups. If market forces kill a franchise I enjoy, I'll be bummed about it, but I'll move on. There will be other games. As it is, the games I have loved most in my life have NOT been very popular, and sequels or games in similar styles do not get made as often as I'd like, so it's a feeling I'm well used to. Financial success has nothing to do with whether games are good or bad. Most people's taste in video games (and media in general) is utter shit. If profit really were the objective indicator of quality you claim it is, then guess what: not a single BioWare game *ever made* even cracks the top 50 of bestselling games, so I guess that would mean all BioWare games are objectively shit, compared to such exquisite offerings as... Minecraft, Pokemon and Call of Duty. Also, I have no idea if you're being hypothetical or making assumptions about me, but I didn't get Anthem. I said I want to see the industry finance more new IP, not that I buy every new IP. I obviously don't do that, because I don't have infinity dollars to waste on frivolities. I passed on Anthem, not because of anything BioWare did previously, but because it didn't have any of the things I look for in a game. I don't care about BioWare's "reputation" and never have. Again you say that new IP shouldn't be made because they would "most likely" fail. Aside from the fact that you can't possibly back up this outrageous claim with any statistics, it's a complete failure of logic that I expect even most small children to see through it easily. Seriously, do you ever pause to actually read anything you type? If new IP never got made, your precious ME 1 & 2 would never have existed. Video games as an industry and artform would never have existed. We'd all still be squatting in the mud, pushing berries up our noses, because the wheel never got invented, because it "most likely would have failed". Also, if the industry actually *supported* the creation of new IP, instead of wallowing in creative bankruptcy, milking its tortured cash cows to death, it wouldn't matter if "most" new IP failed, *because there would be more new IP all the time*.
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Ivory Samoan
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Raising Hell with the Flavor XX
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Jan 5, 2021 13:04:34 GMT
I'm totally backing the 600+ odd years theory, so unless they do a Lazarus part 2, Shep be long gone even with the 'Breath'.
I'm 100% ok with this, and am so eager to see how the Milky Way operates long after the Reaper war, my bet is on some super relay being built in Andromeda, and the 2 galaxies link up - brining Angara over for this game, and making the most of the long lived species like Asari and Krogan for cameos.
This is the way.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 5, 2021 13:44:24 GMT
I don't understand what point you're trying to make. You're talking about market forces, I'm telling you I don't care about the market, That's mistake #1. the market is not an indicator of actual quality Nor is it a charity. So that's mistake #2. I don’t form or express my opinions for the benefit of others, that would be a colossal waste of time. And that concerns the company who intends to sell a product. So that's mistake #3. So what you are saying is that you don't care if a company sells a product, you don't care about the quality, other than your subjective opinion of it and you don't care how or even if what you want can be improved upon, to make it more marketable and, therefore, something that you can enjoy longer. So while I do appreciate your confidence, I consider it to be largely misplaced. You have no plan. No business and no battle plan. If market forces kill a franchise I enjoy, I'll be bummed about it, but I'll move on. There will be other games No, there aren't. There is literally no other game like Mass Effect out there. And it's been over 13 years since the first one and there is no other game like it out there. Again you say that new IP shouldn't be made because they would "most likely" fail. Aside from the fact that you can't possibly back up this outrageous claim with any statistics, it's a complete failure of logic that I expect even most small children to see through it easily. Seriously, do you ever pause to actually read anything you type? If new IP never got made, your precious ME 1 & 2 would never have existed. Video games as an industry and artform would never have existed. We'd all still be squatting in the mud, pushing berries up our noses, because the wheel never got invented, because it "most likely would have failed". False equivalence. The Bioware of today is factually not in the same standing in the gaming community as it was in 2007. Furthermore, the example of the industry in itself, is also false. There was the technology to introduce a new entertainment product in the market, by companies that were either starting up at the time or established ones, like SEGA and Nintendo, although SEGA was, at the time, at a different segment. I am going to exaggerate with this, but Bioware making a new IP today will have the market penetration of Dr. Kevorkian's miracle elixir for healthier living. It's the name behind the product that the market is not going to stand behind. You are making a gross generalization and not necessarily reading what I am alluding to. Also, if the industry actually *supported* the creation of new IP, instead of wallowing in creative bankruptcy, milking its tortured cash cows to death, it wouldn't matter if "most" new IP failed, *because there would be more new IP all the time*. You are also disregarding the amount of R&D behind making a new IP. A new IP is an investment. Usually, one that companies don't want to be a one and gone. Same as game engines. It's got little to do with creative bankruptcy and more to do with cost efficiency. Not to mention brand power and content over time. From there, it is up to the studio to keep the IP healthy and, by doing it so, keeping the studio brand healthy. If that were as you say then even the studios would disband after, because even if they did make a new game, the experience would be wholly similar to the previous one, just reskinned. Which is what Bioware games had, more or less, been since BG1, all the way up until Anthem.
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Post by Shinobu on Jan 6, 2021 23:46:52 GMT
Yes, yes, and yes. I want my Shepard back. The one protagonist that got me to love this series, and the crew. The story wasn't over, it was just badly written as the writers had no clue. 'Your choices matter', no they didn't, in the end you were f*cked regardless. Shepard deserved better than that. As Miranda said 'Shepard is a bloody icon'. I spent way too many hours enjoying this game with Shepard for it be over just like that. There is still a lot of potential here. Lets go 'Destroy' canon and relish in that sweet reunion, seeing all your favorite companions and LI's again. 'Are you up for one more story?'. I sure as hell am. Hope got us this far, it will carry us further. *shrugs* OK. How does Bio deliver that? I presume we're not talking about a situation where Bio just happens to canonize a situation which perfectly matches your Shepard. (Do you really have only one?) Or maybe we are, since you seem to be pro-canonization. One thing that Bioware has a tendency to do is swing like a pendulum based on the feedback they got the previous game and overcorrect a bit by completely removing the thing people complained about. Only to bring it back later.
For example, people hated the way the Mako drove in ME1. -> No Mako in ME2 and ME3. -> People missed the Mako. -> Better driving Nomad back in MEA. (I've always thought they'd be better served by figuring out exactly what the complaint is and fixing it rather than completely removing something.)
One of the things that made juggling Schroedinger's squad even possible in ME3 was having generic stand-ins (Legion/Not-Legion for an example that was widely disliked at the time). If Bioware holds true to form, they will not have stand-ins (because it was hated last game), which means it is impossible to bring any of the the squad back in any meaningful way (i.e., critical path quests), since all of them can be killed during the Trilogy. The only way to bring back Shepard with the squad is to have stand-ins, otherwise someone who tried to import an "I killed everyone" world state would get the character creator followed by soloing one fetch quest and then the end credits. This will require Bioware to tweak something that was previously hated rather than throwing it out, which I'm not sure they will do. Also, this only takes care of the squad and not the myriad of other decisions made throughout the trilogy.
If people want to play as Shepard with Shepard's squad, the only ways I can see to do that are: 1) Having generic stand-ins again (e.g., Mordin/Padok Wiiks) OR 2) Deciding on a world state for everyone and we all play alternate universe versions of "our" Shepards.
People will have to decide what they are willing to accept in order to have Shepard back. Although I think it's moot and Bioware will do what they want in any case (which I suspect is 640+ years gone by with no squadmates but Liara left alive).
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Post by burningcherry on Jan 8, 2021 19:24:09 GMT
Are there any good examples of a character being created for a purpose, completing it, being given another purpose by the author after that, and the last step working out? If not, I'm for Shepard if and only if the story is about the Reapers, like mopping up their backup plans maybe.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 8, 2021 20:07:57 GMT
Are there any good examples of a character being created for a purpose, completing it, being given another purpose by the author after that, and the last step working out? Most comic book story arcs are like that. Purpose ends, new challenge arises etc. etc. etc. As long as you're alive and able, there's always more shit to do. The Uncharted games always have a different purpose, from one game to another, technically, even ME has different purposes, from game to game, of those that include Shepard. ME1 starts with the singular purpose of stopping Saren and Sovereign and from there, we move on to stopping the Reapers as a whole. Even during my service, we didn't go capture a location and then retire. There is always the next thing and a post destroy Milky Way has a shit ton of next things. Which is exactly why the galaxy would need Shepard. Too bad we're not getting that.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 8, 2021 20:13:28 GMT
640+ years gone by with no squadmates but Liara left alive Even that requires a canon setting, though. As has been pointed out, even Liara can die. So in for a penny, in for a pound, as they say.
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Post by feuerrabe on Jan 8, 2021 22:37:36 GMT
640+ years gone by with no squadmates but Liara left alive Even that requires a canon setting, though. As has been pointed out, even Liara can die. So in for a penny, in for a pound, as they say. I suppose that in such a scenario, the game will take only Shepard's gender and final choice into account (other than refuse), nothing else, not even the point standing. Grunt may well be still alive. And, depending on the ending, EDI.
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Post by burningcherry on Jan 9, 2021 0:38:32 GMT
Are there any good examples of a character being created for a purpose, completing it, being given another purpose by the author after that, and the last step working out? Most comic book story arcs are like that. Purpose ends, new challenge arises etc. etc. etc. As long as you're alive and able, there's always more shit to do. The Uncharted games always have a different purpose, from one game to another, technically, even ME has different purposes, from game to game, of those that include Shepard. ME1 starts with the singular purpose of stopping Saren and Sovereign and from there, we move on to stopping the Reapers as a whole. Even during my service, we didn't go capture a location and then retire. There is always the next thing and a post destroy Milky Way has a shit ton of next things. Which is exactly why the galaxy would need Shepard. Too bad we're not getting that. I don't think you mean comic series that were planned to end with an event and then extended past it anyway, sounds like those that are meant to run until the author runs out of capacity to continue. Shepard's purpose was to defeat the Reapers, Saren was only an introductory prologue.
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Cyberstrike
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is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jan 9, 2021 0:44:37 GMT
*shrugs* OK. How does Bio deliver that? I presume we're not talking about a situation where Bio just happens to canonize a situation which perfectly matches your Shepard. (Do you really have only one?) Or maybe we are, since you seem to be pro-canonization. One thing that Bioware has a tendency to do is swing like a pendulum based on the feedback they got the previous game and overcorrect a bit by completely removing the thing people complained about. Only to bring it back later.
For example, people hated the way the Mako drove in ME1. -> No Mako in ME2 and ME3. -> People missed the Mako. -> Better driving Nomad back in MEA. (I've always thought they'd be better served by figuring out exactly what the complaint is and fixing it rather than completely removing something.)
One of the things that made juggling Schroedinger's squad even possible in ME3 was having generic stand-ins (Legion/Not-Legion for an example that was widely disliked at the time). If Bioware holds true to form, they will not have stand-ins (because it was hated last game), which means it is impossible to bring any of the the squad back in any meaningful way (i.e., critical path quests), since all of them can be killed during the Trilogy. The only way to bring back Shepard with the squad is to have stand-ins, otherwise someone who tried to import an "I killed everyone" world state would get the character creator followed by soloing one fetch quest and then the end credits. This will require Bioware to tweak something that was previously hated rather than throwing it out, which I'm not sure they will do. Also, this only takes care of the squad and not the myriad of other decisions made throughout the trilogy.
If people want to play as Shepard with Shepard's squad, the only ways I can see to do that are: 1) Having generic stand-ins again (e.g., Mordin/Padok Wiiks) OR 2) Deciding on a world state for everyone and we all play alternate universe versions of "our" Shepards.
People will have to decide what they are willing to accept in order to have Shepard back. Although I think it's moot and Bioware will do what they want in any case (which I suspect is 640+ years gone by with no squadmates but Liara left alive).
Maybe Grunt and Wrex/Wreve would be alive, but Wrex/Wreave would be as old as Drack.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jan 9, 2021 1:29:27 GMT
Things can be badly written and still over. In fact, it's better for badly written things to be over as quickly as possible. I don't agree. For example, the vast majority of the gaming public will tell you that Andromeda was badly written. Yet, I will ask for a sequel to it, for the fans that did like it, because they deserve the closure.
But I will argue that the timing for it now is extremely poor and it will produce worse results.
Andromeda was just bizarre though, there was some really great character missions and arcs in there that really made me feel like I was playing a next-gen Mass Effect 1. Same with some of the side missions too. Heck even some of the build up in the main plot was decent, the whole angora arc I found really interesting. But then it sort of just fizzled out into "the power of friendship can overcome any obstacle" and that really cheapened the entire narrative and made me feel like I was playing a children's game by the end of it.
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jadebaby88
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Official BSN Originale - Still searching for a better ending to ME3
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jan 9, 2021 1:32:33 GMT
Even that requires a canon setting, though. As has been pointed out, even Liara can die. So in for a penny, in for a pound, as they say. I suppose that in such a scenario, the game will take only Shepard's gender and final choice into account (other than refuse), nothing else, not even the point standing. Grunt may well be still alive. And, depending on the ending, EDI.
I don't think the final choice CAN be taken into account. They are all such fundamentally different scenarios of how the galaxy should behave. If they even try to do this, they will just be pulling the curtains over it by trying to set it so far into the future that "none of the choices matter anymore" anyway. And that's WORSE than at least having the balls to canonize one of them.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 9, 2021 2:37:34 GMT
I don't think you mean comic series that were planned to end with an event and then extended past it anyway, sounds like those that are meant to run until the author runs out of capacity to continue. Shepard's purpose was to defeat the Reapers, Saren was only an introductory prologue. Well, the end of the Reaper war is also a start to a tumultuous era, filled with strife, toil and intrigue. If you go by the Shepard surviving ending. Which looks like a window to continue that specific timeline, if Bioware did so choose to do, in a time of need, if the franchise, or the studio, ever needed it. And you can disagree with that, but there certainly is a window for that, a very intentional one, for exactly such a scenario. But we're not getting that.
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Jan 9, 2021 4:48:17 GMT
I don't think you mean comic series that were planned to end with an event and then extended past it anyway, sounds like those that are meant to run until the author runs out of capacity to continue. Shepard's purpose was to defeat the Reapers, Saren was only an introductory prologue. Well, the end of the Reaper war is also a start to a tumultuous era, filled with strife, toil and intrigue. If you go by the Shepard surviving ending. Which looks like a window to continue that specific timeline, if Bioware did so choose to do, in a time of need, if the franchise, or the studio, ever needed it. And you can disagree with that, but there certainly is a window for that, a very intentional one, for exactly such a scenario. But we're not getting that. Well it is a damn tough life filled with toil and strife we whale man undergo. And we don't give a damn when the day is done. How hard the winds did blow. 'cause we're homeward bound from the Arctic ground With a good ship, taut and free And we won't give a damn when we drink our rumWith the girls of Old Maui.
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Post by feuerrabe on Jan 9, 2021 7:22:00 GMT
I suppose that in such a scenario, the game will take only Shepard's gender and final choice into account (other than refuse), nothing else, not even the point standing. Grunt may well be still alive. And, depending on the ending, EDI.
I don't think the final choice CAN be taken into account. They are all such fundamentally different scenarios of how the galaxy should behave. If they even try to do this, they will just be pulling the curtains over it by trying to set it so far into the future that "none of the choices matter anymore" anyway. And that's WORSE than at least having the balls to canonize one of them. My remark was meant for the specific scenario that the game was set 640+ years (or let's just say 600 years to put it on the same track as ME:A) after the end of ME3, in which case Shepard's final choice can be taken into account. The choice was still made and reflects in the game world, but it's not a game changer any more.
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