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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 0:19:30 GMT
Udina, Jacob and Harbinger are at least consistently written, and our character isn't forced to like them after I told them I wanted to throw them in a volcano (literally or figuratively speaking). If you wish to play a character that dislikes scheming politician tropes, "boring" human soldiers (I think his backstory is no more or less boring than some fan favorites apart from the fact he isn't a rubber forehead alien with a "cool" design, but horses for courses), or arrogant ancient robo cuttlefish, you can do that from start to finish. If you wish to play a character that dislikes annoying creepy virginal underage alien girl tropes, too bad its your best friend and you're hugging it. I don’t know if I can agree that the writing for these characters is particularly consistent, though I’d argue that Harbinger only barely qualifies as a character itself, since the only time it actually says anything, it’s either a battle bark, or some stock Big Evil lines about how puny we are to stop it. ME3 threw Jacob and Udina under the bus. Jacob basically got some very basic, cornball lines. Seriously, the voice actor himself sounded super disinterested. As for Udina, he flew off the fuckin’ rails with the Citadel coup, and any semblance of nuance the trilogy had left got blown out the airlock. I think a ME rewrite (or time decompression) would benefit Liara's character arc very much. From naive scientist to information broker in two years is too quick of a change. And from this to Shadow Broker...well, It's one of the worst guarded secrets in the Galaxy in ME3. But to actively hate her as a character? Nah its overblown. I hate Kai Leng as a character, though. He could be thrown into a exploding volcano. And that's not because he is a villain. He is badly, badly written and implemented. He should've been a Super Phantom, agile as fuck and very hard to kill on each fight. Instead he gets that delicious plot armour every time. And it doesnt help that he is nonedimensional.
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Post by Phantom on Mar 22, 2021 1:25:06 GMT
I don’t know if I can agree that the writing for these characters is particularly consistent, though I’d argue that Harbinger only barely qualifies as a character itself, since the only time it actually says anything, it’s either a battle bark, or some stock Big Evil lines about how puny we are to stop it. ME3 threw Jacob and Udina under the bus. Jacob basically got some very basic, cornball lines. Seriously, the voice actor himself sounded super disinterested. As for Udina, he flew off the fuckin’ rails with the Citadel coup, and any semblance of nuance the trilogy had left got blown out the airlock. I think a ME rewrite (or time decompression) would benefit Liara's character arc very much. From naive scientist to information broker in two years is too quick of a change. And from this to Shadow Broker...well, It's one of the worst guarded secrets in the Galaxy in ME3. But to actively hate her as a character? Nah its overblown. I hate Kai Leng as a character, though. He could be thrown into a exploding volcano. And that's not because he is a villain. He is badly, badly written and implemented. He should've been a Super Phantom, agile as fuck and very hard to kill on each fight. Instead he gets that delicious plot armour every time. And it doesnt help that he is nonedimensional. A part of me wants the fanbase to play as a Super Phantom with a good story to enjoy and NOT Kai Leng.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 22, 2021 4:41:24 GMT
I don’t know if I can agree that the writing for these characters is particularly consistent, though I’d argue that Harbinger only barely qualifies as a character itself, since the only time it actually says anything, it’s either a battle bark, or some stock Big Evil lines about how puny we are to stop it. ME3 threw Jacob and Udina under the bus. Jacob basically got some very basic, cornball lines. Seriously, the voice actor himself sounded super disinterested. As for Udina, he flew off the fuckin’ rails with the Citadel coup, and any semblance of nuance the trilogy had left got blown out the airlock. I think a ME rewrite (or time decompression) would benefit Liara's character arc very much. From naive scientist to information broker in two years is too quick of a change. And from this to Shadow Broker...well, It's one of the worst guarded secrets in the Galaxy in ME3. But to actively hate her as a character? Nah its overblown. I hate Kai Leng as a character, though. He could be thrown into a exploding volcano. And that's not because he is a villain. He is badly, badly written and implemented. He should've been a Super Phantom, agile as fuck and very hard to kill on each fight. Instead he gets that delicious plot armour every time. And it doesnt help that he is nonedimensional. Kai Leng wasn’t a character; he was a walking plot armor dispenser. I don’t care about the book he was in; never read it and I ain’t never gonna, and I think he was hated for all the wrong reasons. He’s just a nuisance while the game constantly cheats us out of killing him. That the game constantly gave us direct confrontations with him, I think, was a mistake.
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Post by Radec on Mar 22, 2021 18:51:15 GMT
I think a ME rewrite (or time decompression) would benefit Liara's character arc very much. From naive scientist to information broker in two years is too quick of a change. And from this to Shadow Broker...well, It's one of the worst guarded secrets in the Galaxy in ME3. But to actively hate her as a character? Nah its overblown. I hate Kai Leng as a character, though. He could be thrown into a exploding volcano. And that's not because he is a villain. He is badly, badly written and implemented. He should've been a Super Phantom, agile as fuck and very hard to kill on each fight. Instead he gets that delicious plot armour every time. And it doesnt help that he is nonedimensional. Kai Leng wasn’t a character; he was a walking plot armor dispenser. I don’t care about the book he was in; never read it and I ain’t never gonna, and I think he was hated for all the wrong reasons. He’s just a nuisance while the game constantly cheats us out of killing him. That the game constantly gave us direct confrontations with him, I think, was a mistake. he was a retarded ass gary stu self insert in the book, as well the fact that Mac & Casey obviously thought this weeb clown was the coolest thing ever really explains a lot about why ME3's writing is such a disaster
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 19:07:41 GMT
Kai Leng wasn’t a character; he was a walking plot armor dispenser. I don’t care about the book he was in; never read it and I ain’t never gonna, and I think he was hated for all the wrong reasons. He’s just a nuisance while the game constantly cheats us out of killing him. That the game constantly gave us direct confrontations with him, I think, was a mistake. he was a retarded ass gary stu self insert in the book, as well the fact that Mac & Casey obviously thought this weeb clown was the coolest thing ever really explains a lot about why ME3's writing is such a disaster It always cracks me up, this novel. It represents everything what went wrong in ME3 production: a hastely assembled product with little oversight and communication. That a novel of this low quality could be launched prior to the game is laughable. It shows how little they cared for the brand in general.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 22, 2021 19:14:54 GMT
Kai Leng wasn’t a character; he was a walking plot armor dispenser. I don’t care about the book he was in; never read it and I ain’t never gonna, and I think he was hated for all the wrong reasons. He’s just a nuisance while the game constantly cheats us out of killing him. That the game constantly gave us direct confrontations with him, I think, was a mistake. he was a retarded ass gary stu self insert in the book, as well the fact that Mac & Casey obviously thought this weeb clown was the coolest thing ever really explains a lot about why ME3's writing is such a disaster Spirits, that’s so stupid and I hate it lol. Also, the general writing quality on this page just seems godawful. I actually really hate these book tie-ins to BioWare games and wish they would just suffer a swift painful death already. I couldn’t even finish that one about the stupid Orlesians for Dragon Age I could not stay engaged. If BioWare really wants to flesh out these events and characters beyond our main characters’ experiences, work them into the actual game world. Make scrolls or archives or some shit we can read like a historical account or something. These novels are trash.
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Post by cribbian on Mar 22, 2021 19:31:49 GMT
The Rage comic version of Deception is a masterpiece though so something good came out of it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 22, 2021 19:46:14 GMT
The Rage comic version of Deception is a masterpiece though so something good came out of it. Holy shit. What. Fine. You win. At least we have this.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 22, 2021 19:52:37 GMT
Spirits, that’s so stupid and I hate it lol. Also, the general writing quality on this page just seems godawful. I actually really hate these book tie-ins to BioWare games and wish they would just suffer a swift painful death already. I couldn’t even finish that one about the stupid Orlesians for Dragon Age I could not stay engaged. If BioWare really wants to flesh out these events and characters beyond our main characters’ experiences, work them into the actual game world. Make scrolls or archives or some shit we can read like a historical account or something. These novels are trash. I agree with that. Never read the books or comics since I have no reason to read them. I would add cartoons as well. In ME3, on the dreadnought, Vega will say it reminds him when he destroyed a collector ship. I wanted Shepard to ask him about that, but couldn't. 6 months later the answer comes from a cartoon starring Vega.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 22, 2021 20:01:02 GMT
Spirits, that’s so stupid and I hate it lol. Also, the general writing quality on this page just seems godawful. I actually really hate these book tie-ins to BioWare games and wish they would just suffer a swift painful death already. I couldn’t even finish that one about the stupid Orlesians for Dragon Age I could not stay engaged. If BioWare really wants to flesh out these events and characters beyond our main characters’ experiences, work them into the actual game world. Make scrolls or archives or some shit we can read like a historical account or something. These novels are trash. I agree with that. Never read the books or comics since I have no reason to read them. I would add cartoons as well. In ME3, on the dreadnought, Vega will say it reminds him when he destroyed a collector ship. I wanted Shepard to ask him about that, but couldn't. 6 months later the answer comes from a cartoon starring Vega. I didn’t bother to finish Paragon Lost. The voice acting was terrible. All of these events have recorded accounts somewhere. We should be able to dig up these files and read them as our character, especially since these pertain to members of our own crew.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 20:13:46 GMT
I agree with that. Never read the books or comics since I have no reason to read them. I would add cartoons as well. In ME3, on the dreadnought, Vega will say it reminds him when he destroyed a collector ship. I wanted Shepard to ask him about that, but couldn't. 6 months later the answer comes from a cartoon starring Vega. I didn’t bother to finish Paragon Lost. The voice acting was terrible. All of these events have recorded accounts somewhere. We should be able to dig up these files and read them as our character, especially since these pertain to members of our own crew. Drew's books were good though. Worth a read. The rest varies from forgetful to horrible. TIM's origin story comes to mind. Such a good character with such a weak backstory.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Mar 22, 2021 20:24:53 GMT
Kai Leng wasn’t a character; he was a walking plot armor dispenser. I don’t care about the book he was in; never read it and I ain’t never gonna, and I think he was hated for all the wrong reasons. He’s just a nuisance while the game constantly cheats us out of killing him. That the game constantly gave us direct confrontations with him, I think, was a mistake. he was a retarded ass gary stu self insert in the book, as well the fact that Mac & Casey obviously thought this weeb clown was the coolest thing ever really explains a lot about why ME3's writing is such a disaster Holy crap that is terrible writing. I'm glad I passed on the books.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 22, 2021 21:30:04 GMT
Kai Leng wasn’t a character; he was a walking plot armor dispenser. I don’t care about the book he was in; never read it and I ain’t never gonna, and I think he was hated for all the wrong reasons. He’s just a nuisance while the game constantly cheats us out of killing him. That the game constantly gave us direct confrontations with him, I think, was a mistake. he was a retarded ass gary stu self insert in the book, as well the fact that Mac & Casey obviously thought this weeb clown was the coolest thing ever really explains a lot about why ME3's writing is such a disaster Did a 10 year old write that book? 😆
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Post by Radec on Mar 22, 2021 22:36:53 GMT
he was a retarded ass gary stu self insert in the book, as well the fact that Mac & Casey obviously thought this weeb clown was the coolest thing ever really explains a lot about why ME3's writing is such a disaster Spirits, that’s so stupid and I hate it lol. Also, the general writing quality on this page just seems godawful. I actually really hate these book tie-ins to BioWare games and wish they would just suffer a swift painful death already. I couldn’t even finish that one about the stupid Orlesians for Dragon Age I could not stay engaged. If BioWare really wants to flesh out these events and characters beyond our main characters’ experiences, work them into the actual game world. Make scrolls or archives or some shit we can read like a historical account or something. These novels are trash. In fairness, that one is particularly bad. Karpyshyn's are fine, though not required reading given ME3 retcons almost everything in them, anyway. The Andromeda novels are much better written than the actual game (not that this is saying all that much).
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 22, 2021 23:07:38 GMT
In fairness, that one is particularly bad. Karpyshyn's are fine, though not required reading given ME3 retcons almost everything in them, anyway. The Andromeda novels are much better written than the actual game (not that this is saying all that much). You mean the one that N.K. Jemisin not so subtly inserts her Quarian public nudity/humiliation fetish? Yeah. Great literature, that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 23:23:57 GMT
In fairness, that one is particularly bad. Karpyshyn's are fine, though not required reading given ME3 retcons almost everything in them, anyway. The Andromeda novels are much better written than the actual game (not that this is saying all that much). You mean the one that N.K. Jemisin not so subtly inserts her Quarian public nudity/humiliation fetish? Yeah. Great literature, that. Wait, what? I didnt read Andromeda's novels, so, wtf?
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Post by Radec on Mar 22, 2021 23:26:00 GMT
In fairness, that one is particularly bad. Karpyshyn's are fine, though not required reading given ME3 retcons almost everything in them, anyway. The Andromeda novels are much better written than the actual game (not that this is saying all that much). You mean the one that N.K. Jemisin not so subtly inserts her Quarian public nudity/humiliation fetish? Yeah. Great literature, that. Afraid I don't know what you're referencing, only quarians I remember in the Jemisin book (Initiation) are a couple of mercs with a bit part in the first act. It's pretty much a Cora origin story before the initiative leaves, which automatically makes it more interesting than MEA as its set in the MW.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 22, 2021 23:32:22 GMT
Afraid I don't know what you're referencing, only quarians I remember in the Jemisin book (Initiation) are a couple of mercs with a bit part in the first act. It's pretty much a Cora origin story before the initiative leaves, which automatically makes it more interesting than MEA as its set in the MW. She also wrote the book about the Quarian Ark, if I recall. That's where that happens. Supposedly, this femquar saboatged the ark, which is why it didn't arrive on time and they had her go through the walk of shame.
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Post by Radec on Mar 22, 2021 23:47:19 GMT
Afraid I don't know what you're referencing, only quarians I remember in the Jemisin book (Initiation) are a couple of mercs with a bit part in the first act. It's pretty much a Cora origin story before the initiative leaves, which automatically makes it more interesting than MEA as its set in the MW. She wrote the book about the Quarian Ark, if I recall. No that was a different writer Catherynne M. Valente. Honestly that one was pretty meh. I don't remember much of it. All I remember is that a quarian was trying to distribute a bioengineered virus that would genocide everyone from the council races in the Initiative, but it activated early and started killing everyone on the ark. Honestly wish they'd succeeded, given I played Andromeda and almost noone in it is redeemable.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 22, 2021 23:54:16 GMT
No that was a different writer Catherynne M. Valente. Ah! My mistake.
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Post by Radec on Mar 23, 2021 0:08:20 GMT
The Rage comic version of Deception is a masterpiece though so something good came out of it. also this is the best thing in the Mass Effect EU.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 13:52:40 GMT
You mean the one that N.K. Jemisin not so subtly inserts her Quarian public nudity/humiliation fetish? Yeah. Great literature, that. Afraid I don't know what you're referencing, only quarians I remember in the Jemisin book (Initiation) are a couple of mercs with a bit part in the first act. It's pretty much a Cora origin story before the initiative leaves, which automatically makes it more interesting than MEA as its set in the MW. Dude, if people still thinks nuking a setting, avoiding its growth into mainstream and its self sustenance is good writing, a little BDSM is not too much to bear. Give me leather clad quarians with whips!
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 23, 2021 18:15:23 GMT
Afraid I don't know what you're referencing, only quarians I remember in the Jemisin book (Initiation) are a couple of mercs with a bit part in the first act. It's pretty much a Cora origin story before the initiative leaves, which automatically makes it more interesting than MEA as its set in the MW. Dude, if people still thinks a nuking a setting, avoiding its growth into mainstream and its self sustenance is good writing, a little SBDM is not too much to bear. Give me leather clad quarians with whips! No Quarians. I find them disturbing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 20:02:54 GMT
Dude, if people still thinks a nuking a setting, avoiding its growth into mainstream and its self sustenance is good writing, a little SBDM is not too much to bear. Give me leather clad quarians with whips! No Quarians. I find them disturbing.
Myshep banged one, so I think Jiggly Quarian Bum Bum is a thing for me. Why do you find them disturbing?
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Post by Phantom on Mar 23, 2021 20:05:21 GMT
Kai Leng wasn’t a character; he was a walking plot armor dispenser. I don’t care about the book he was in; never read it and I ain’t never gonna, and I think he was hated for all the wrong reasons. He’s just a nuisance while the game constantly cheats us out of killing him. That the game constantly gave us direct confrontations with him, I think, was a mistake. he was a retarded ass gary stu self insert in the book, as well the fact that Mac & Casey obviously thought this weeb clown was the coolest thing ever really explains a lot about why ME3's writing is such a disaster That is from Mass Effect Deception that is Non-canon as for right now. Drew K. version of Kai Leng is better than that.
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