inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,252
Hanako Ikezawa
22,358
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 2:18:49 GMT
Quite frankly for me they can bring back whatever squadmates/crew they want. I have everyone alive so it wouldn't be negating my choices there, and I already know all my favorites won't come back since they're all either always dead or holding the record for most times able to be killed. I'm already doomed, so may as well want others to be happy.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Mar 20, 2021 2:30:27 GMT
Seems to me like that makes a solid case for just not bothering with Shepard and co. at all. I can say with absolute certainty that BioWare is not going to juggle all of these past love interests and consolidate them into a single game, and frankly, they’re better off not even trying. This isn’t even accounting for the obligatory fresh faces, because BioWare’s never going to make a new game, and not add in a few new characters. Again, this is their own rule. They can only offer equal treatment, or no treatment. Meaning they have to kiss Liara goodbye. For all we know, Liara could be the one technically passing the torch, because everyone else has come down with a severe case of death. If that’s the case, there’d technically be no lie in the trailer. Still the only quantum character returning. Still hypocritical. Since when was there ever a rule? When it comes to companion content, Mass Effect’s never been particularly equitable. Ask people who romanced Jacob, or don’t get to give Kelly Chambers a proper farewell. To call Liara a “quantum” character is kind of misleading. Unlike the majority of other companions, Liara’s fate is tied inextricably to the world state itself, whereas all but James can die and you can still get the world state where everything is rebuilt.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 2:36:51 GMT
Since when was there ever a rule? There was a stream from one of the Bioware devs, where he talked about the "quantum" state of characters and how, after Leliana, they would not be bringing back quantum characters and that was for all their future titles. And here they are, making Liara's return cannon. Even if not that, how about "your choices matter"? If you can kill Liara, but she comes back regardless, do your choices still matter? Or are Bioware being selective again? As I said, this is hypocrisy. When it comes to companion content, Mass Effect’s never been particularly equitable. Ask people who romanced Jacob, or don’t get to give Kelly Chambers a proper farewell. I know. Which is why I say everyone. To call Liara a “quantum” character is kind of misleading. Unlike the majority of other companions, Liara’s fate is tied inextricably to the world state itself, whereas all but James can die and you can still get the world state where everything is rebuilt. It is not misleading. Is it possible for Liara to die? If the answer is yes, then she is quantum.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,252
Hanako Ikezawa
22,358
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 2:44:36 GMT
or don’t get to give Kelly Chambers a proper farewell. No proper farewell, no flashback when choosing your ending, only LI to not appear in Citadel DLC, etc. 😭
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,285
themikefest
14,818
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Mar 20, 2021 2:50:30 GMT
Liara’s fate obviously doesn’t exist in a vacuum. If she dies, that also means that every single character on the Normandy dies too. Incorrect. I had a few of the ME2 squadmates survive. During the memorial wall scene, all squadmates were there. Remember she can be killed by Harbinger while still having the nameplate scene. If ems is below 1750, then yes, all onboard the SR2 are assumed dead.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 2:53:49 GMT
or don’t get to give Kelly Chambers a proper farewell. No proper farewell, no flashback when choosing your ending, only LI to not appear in Citadel DLC, etc. 😭 Which is why I say everyone back.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1619
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2021 3:17:04 GMT
Liara's is the only alive in the trailer because she can live 1.000 years. Bar Grunt, she's the only alive this far into the future.
For me, Galaxy rebuilding is the way to go. Low EMS Destroy is the only option that gives a significant time jump without advancing the technology. Would be strange to use the same.weapons and gear 600 years in the future with High-EMS Destroy, Control and Synthesis.
My advice would be to not get attatched to any of MET characters. They are done.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Mar 20, 2021 3:26:13 GMT
Liara’s fate obviously doesn’t exist in a vacuum. If she dies, that also means that every single character on the Normandy dies too. Incorrect. I had a few of the ME2 squadmates survive. During the memorial wall scene, all squadmates were there. Remember she can be killed by Harbinger while still having the nameplate scene. If ems is below 1750, then yes, all onboard the SR2 are assumed dead. I stand corrected! Though, if Liara dies, then Shepard is guaranteed to die anyway, so I guess there’s that.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 3:27:34 GMT
Liara's is the only alive in the trailer because she can live 1.000 years. Bar Grunt, she's the only alive this far into the future. She is still a quantum character that returns canonically. Meaning your choices only matter, as long as it suits Bioware to do so. Which is pure hypocrisy. For me, Galaxy rebuilding is the way to go. Low EMS Destroy is the only option that gives a significant time jump without advancing the technology. Would be strange to use the same.weapons and gear 600 years in the future with High-EMS Destroy, Control and Synthesis. The game can be set at any point in time, under any conditions that provide a good result. But it has to be done equally so. My advice would be to not get attatched to any of MET characters. Too late. It's not like I actively controlled it. It just happened.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1619
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2021 3:32:34 GMT
Liara's is the only alive in the trailer because she can live 1.000 years. Bar Grunt, she's the only alive this far into the future. She is still a quantum character that returns canonically. Meaning your choices only matter, as long as it suits Bioware to do so. Which is pure hypocrisy. For me, Galaxy rebuilding is the way to go. Low EMS Destroy is the only option that gives a significant time jump without advancing the technology. Would be strange to use the same.weapons and gear 600 years in the future with High-EMS Destroy, Control and Synthesis. The game can be set at any point in time, under any conditions that provide a good result. But it has to be done equally so. My advice would be to not get attatched to any of MET characters. Too late. It's not like I actively controlled it. It just happened. If we take the trailer as an example, it is implied that a significant timeskip happened. If the galaxy merger is true, I picture Liara communicating with Ryder somehow.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Mar 20, 2021 3:33:50 GMT
Since when was there ever a rule? There was a stream from one of the Bioware devs, where he talked about the "quantum" state of characters and how, after Leliana, they would not be bringing back quantum characters and that was for all their future titles. And here they are, making Liara's return cannon. Even if not that, how about "your choices matter"? If you can kill Liara, but she comes back regardless, do your choices still matter? Or are Bioware being selective again? As I said, this is hypocrisy. When it comes to companion content, Mass Effect’s never been particularly equitable. Ask people who romanced Jacob, or don’t get to give Kelly Chambers a proper farewell. I know. Which is why I say everyone. To call Liara a “quantum” character is kind of misleading. Unlike the majority of other companions, Liara’s fate is tied inextricably to the world state itself, whereas all but James can die and you can still get the world state where everything is rebuilt. It is not misleading. Is it possible for Liara to die? If the answer is yes, then she is quantum. Am I missing something here? What exactly is the issue? You want Shepard to return, and to that end, Liara’s survival would be part and parcel anyway. Is the problem that Shepard could be dead, but Liara’s still alive? Well, you know what? What about people who want her to live? Well, it’s like I’ve said in the past. If you want to return to the Milky Way, and actually have a proper future, player agency in how the galaxy turned out is precisely the cost of getting that to happen. If you want to leave your choices intact, a separate galaxy altogether is the only viable option. But, c’est la vie and whatnot.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
Member is Online
31,268
colfoley
16,582
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Mar 20, 2021 4:15:26 GMT
colfoleyI am not asking for straight, back to back Shepard sequels. I am asking, since Bioware are definitely bringing Liara back, to do so equally for all quantum characters and not show preferential treatment. Which makes the Quantum state irrelevant, because then we all know that Quantum means only consequences for everyone that isn't Liara. Again, this is hypocrisy. If they are going to do away with their own rule, then it should be equal for every character, across the board. No preferential treatment. And as I said, make 1 game and leave the window open, even if you never intend to return to them again. It makes it easier to go with a new crew. Forcefully removing the potential of ever returning, did not go well. At some point, you have to retire the Shepard and crew, just don't do it in a way that will (did) piss people off and it can be this title. Now the term "Quantum Character" has a very specific definition and is something that these companies should be aware of when creating their video games. But if I am correct *takes a deep breath, checks the path for land mines, steps out onto it anyways* the fandom really only became aware of the term 'Quantum Character'as it pertained to Greg Ellis and his unprofessionalism...as in the excuse that BioWare will use to not have his character appear in future Dragon Age games. The actual reason for it probably has more to do with his unprofessionalism and that is just the corporate cover, a thin one in this case. But the term is always a bit of a...guideline...instead of an actual rule when you get right down to it, again an important one but BioWare has made clear at numerous occasions that if they really want to include a quantum character in future media...they will..and then take into account the varous qunatum states, or just retcon their reason they are a quantum character (they were only nearrrllllyy dead). Apprepro though this does give me a great bit of chagrin in this case since I absolutley HATE Liara. One of my least favorite characters in the series so her inclusion in the teaser was...perhaps the worse thing they could've included from a marketing perspective. lol.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 6:33:13 GMT
Am I missing something here? What exactly is the issue? You want Shepard to return, and to that end, Liara’s survival would be part and parcel anyway. Is the problem that Shepard could be dead, but Liara’s still alive? Well, you know what? What about people who want her to live? Well, it’s like I’ve said in the past. If you want to return to the Milky Way, and actually have a proper future, player agency in how the galaxy turned out is precisely the cost of getting that to happen. If you want to leave your choices intact, a separate galaxy altogether is the only viable option. But, c’est la vie and whatnot. Now the term "Quantum Character" has a very specific definition and is something that these companies should be aware of when creating their video games. But if I am correct *takes a deep breath, checks the path for land mines, steps out onto it anyways* the fandom really only became aware of the term 'Quantum Character'as it pertained to Greg Ellis and his unprofessionalism...as in the excuse that BioWare will use to not have his character appear in future Dragon Age games. The actual reason for it probably has more to do with his unprofessionalism and that is just the corporate cover, a thin one in this case. But the term is always a bit of a...guideline...instead of an actual rule when you get right down to it, again an important one but BioWare has made clear at numerous occasions that if they really want to include a quantum character in future media...they will..and then take into account the varous qunatum states, or just retcon their reason they are a quantum character (they were only nearrrllllyy dead). Apprepro though this does give me a great bit of chagrin in this case since I absolutley HATE Liara. One of my least favorite characters in the series so her inclusion in the teaser was...perhaps the worse thing they could've included from a marketing perspective. lol. All I am asking for, is equal treatment, for all characters. Not preferential. Because obviously, "quantum state" is just an excuse for Bioware, at this point. As I said, the convention has already been broken. At least use it to some benefit of the fanbase.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,252
Hanako Ikezawa
22,358
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 6:42:59 GMT
No proper farewell, no flashback when choosing your ending, only LI to not appear in Citadel DLC, etc. 😭 Which is why I say everyone back. Will never happen. Not to the extent you want it. It's just not feasible at this point, even ignoring the quantum states.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 6:51:54 GMT
Will never happen. Not to the extent you want it. It's just not feasible at this point, even ignoring the quantum states. I wouldn't give up so easily. The game is 5 years away. That's a lot of time to make it.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,252
Hanako Ikezawa
22,358
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 6:59:01 GMT
Will never happen. Not to the extent you want it. It's just not feasible at this point, even ignoring the quantum states. I wouldn't give up so easily. The game is 5 years away. That's a lot of time to make it. It's not a question of time. It's a question of resources. By the end of the trilogy, there can be 16 squadmates alive, plus another 9 notable crewmembers. That's 25 characters. Plus any new ones they'll be adding. They could not even make that, let alone well.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 7:17:09 GMT
It's not a question of time. It's a question of resources. How's $100m sound?
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,252
Hanako Ikezawa
22,358
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 7:49:53 GMT
It's not a question of time. It's a question of resources. How's $100m sound? Sounds like far outside Bioware's price range for a small part of the game. Sure in a dream world it's possible. We don't live in a dream world.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 20, 2021 8:02:58 GMT
Sounds like far outside Bioware's price range for a small part of the game. Sure in a dream world it's possible. We don't live in a dream world. It was Andromeda's budget. 2.5 times that of ME2, if I recall. Granted, 16 people are superfluous for a squad. But I'll take 16 over 6.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,252
Hanako Ikezawa
22,358
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 8:13:10 GMT
Sounds like far outside Bioware's price range for a small part of the game. Sure in a dream world it's possible. We don't live in a dream world. It was Andromeda's budget. 2.5 times that of ME2, if I recall. Granted, 16 people are superfluous for a squad. But I'll take 16 over 6. And those games had things beyond just characters, like plot, gameplay, visuals, maps, soundtracks, marketing, etc. And then of course you have to think of the sheer amount of time it would take to write these characters that undo the finished stories just to use them again (a problem in and of itself) and several other issues. It's not feasible.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1619
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2021 11:51:22 GMT
I dont get the Liara hate. She is the "poster girl" since ME1. I don't romance her in most playthroughs, but I don't actively dislike her.
I think they went in the right directon showing her as the new poster girl as well.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Mar 20, 2021 13:17:24 GMT
Am I missing something here? What exactly is the issue? You want Shepard to return, and to that end, Liara’s survival would be part and parcel anyway. Is the problem that Shepard could be dead, but Liara’s still alive? Well, you know what? What about people who want her to live? Well, it’s like I’ve said in the past. If you want to return to the Milky Way, and actually have a proper future, player agency in how the galaxy turned out is precisely the cost of getting that to happen. If you want to leave your choices intact, a separate galaxy altogether is the only viable option. But, c’est la vie and whatnot. Now the term "Quantum Character" has a very specific definition and is something that these companies should be aware of when creating their video games. But if I am correct *takes a deep breath, checks the path for land mines, steps out onto it anyways* the fandom really only became aware of the term 'Quantum Character'as it pertained to Greg Ellis and his unprofessionalism...as in the excuse that BioWare will use to not have his character appear in future Dragon Age games. The actual reason for it probably has more to do with his unprofessionalism and that is just the corporate cover, a thin one in this case. But the term is always a bit of a...guideline...instead of an actual rule when you get right down to it, again an important one but BioWare has made clear at numerous occasions that if they really want to include a quantum character in future media...they will..and then take into account the varous qunatum states, or just retcon their reason they are a quantum character (they were only nearrrllllyy dead). Apprepro though this does give me a great bit of chagrin in this case since I absolutley HATE Liara. One of my least favorite characters in the series so her inclusion in the teaser was...perhaps the worse thing they could've included from a marketing perspective. lol. All I am asking for, is equal treatment, for all characters. Not preferential. Because obviously, "quantum state" is just an excuse for Bioware, at this point. As I said, the convention has already been broken. At least use it to some benefit of the fanbase. I agree with the idea of each companion getting fair treatment in terms of the breadth of their content; I just don’t really expect it. I can say, however, that the more characters you add into the companion roster, the less likely that’ll happen. Inevitably, some just get more production time devoted to them. Some will be more plot relevant than others. I’d say it’s just about a certainty at this point. Considering how vast the pool of characters are for Shepard’s companions, I’d say the chances of that even working out are nigh zero. It doesn’t matter how much time the devs have, or even how much money they throw at it. Some content will get more priority than others, and not every asset will get the focus you might want. I’d say that the best thing to do is to just leave all that behind, Shepard included, and just start off fresh with a new cast, and take the more quality over quantity route. Yeah, I know, new is bad and BioWare can’t write original characters worth a shit anymore and whatever, but you’re not going to get some big return of everyone, each with their own deep involvement.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 20, 2021 13:32:33 GMT
I dont get the Liara hate. She is the "poster girl" since ME1. I don't romance her in most playthroughs, but I don't actively dislike her. I think they went in the right directon showing her as the new poster girl as well. At this point I think it is just jealousy that their favorite character isn't the "poster girl" of the series.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,285
themikefest
14,818
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Mar 20, 2021 14:19:33 GMT
I dont get the Liara hate. She is the "poster girl" since ME1. I don't romance her in most playthroughs, but I don't actively dislike her. I think they went in the right directon showing her as the new poster girl as well. I don't get the hate for Cerberus. I don't get the hate for Udina. I don't get the hate for Taylor. I don't get the hate for Harbinger.
|
|
jrpN7
N3
Pro vobis omne periculum.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 731 Likes: 1,860
inherit
2941
0
1,860
jrpN7
Pro vobis omne periculum.
731
January 2017
jrpn7
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by jrpN7 on Mar 20, 2021 14:42:34 GMT
She is still a quantum character that returns canonically. Meaning your choices only matter, as long as it suits Bioware to do so. Which is pure hypocrisy. The game can be set at any point in time, under any conditions that provide a good result. But it has to be done equally so. Too late. It's not like I actively controlled it. It just happened. If we take the trailer as an example, it is implied that a significant timeskip happened. If the galaxy merger is true, I picture Liara communicating with Ryder somehow. I remain with serious doubts there will be a far-fetched galaxy merger let alone a significant time jump; and if there were one, how Ryder could still be alive.
|
|