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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 4, 2021 22:52:40 GMT
Not really, they can fail pretty spectacularly, as the suicide mission shows. Eh, some of the mechanics around the suicide mission are pretty bad. Like, the character can go through the same ordeal, but their loyalty gives them just enough pep in their step to survive, whereas unresolved business has their soul going “aight, ima head out”. It’s even funnier if you get a character like Zaeed to carry forward while disloyal. The man dies to the sound of the Presidium ambient music. If he could hear it, I’m sure he’d be insulted. I think it's more like they're distracted by other issues. I agree it's not my favorite setup, but the reasoning itself is sound, if odd.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 4, 2021 22:54:10 GMT
Not really, they can fail pretty spectacularly, as the suicide mission shows. By that standard Liara fails quite a bit as well. When you find her she fucked up and got herself trapped in a force bubble, in ME2 she done fucked up and got her compatriot captured by the shadow broker, in Me3 she fails to figure out and secure the mars info before evil robot grabs it, and she can die. Eh, taken in totality, Liara becoming an expert information broker with no setup overwhelms it. Especially when the Mary Sue's "flaws" tend to be klutzyness.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 4, 2021 22:57:12 GMT
Galaxy isn't dead just Earth is destroyed. The rest of the galaxy is still alive and capable of rebuilding and the Reapers are destroyed. That is success. You stop the conflict and have a group to support your war effort. That is a success. Talitha is the first example of actual failure. Shepard always wins. No one complains about that. But Leng suddenly winning acting as a mirror reflection of Shepard's plot armor suddenly annoys people when they are forced to look in a mirror. Leng doesn't do anything that Shepard hasn't done a dozen times in the series. Or even a dozen times in a single game.
Actually...no, when you consider that the Reapers harvest the humans and the Crucible is destroyed. The Reapers will know about it and it can't be used. That's what Starbrat says. That's not a success, that's a failure. You couldn't get the armies you wanted because you messed up. Reapers were harvesting humans. There is no EMS level that is low enough to prevent any choice from being made. To even reach the very low EMS you have to work for it. Like literally work your ass off across all 3 games to get that. Just playing the game will net you at least a moderate EMS score even if you make bad choices. Either way the Crucible fires and wipes out the Reapers, burns Earth to ash and blows up the Relays. But the Reapers are gone and the survivors can rebuild.
Shepard is free of weakness. Everything they do is perfect. Mordin is also a mary sue as he has no weakness and know what to do and when to do it.
Errr...no. Mordin's weakness is that he is incapable of looking beyond what he did. He is consumed by perceived failures so much he'll side with a genocidal maniac like Wreav to assuage his guilt. Mordin was 100% for the Genophage in ME2. The change in ME3 is there because it lines up with the potential for Wrex to be around. That said you can still convince Mordin to sabotage the Genophage. If I remember correctly if you fully supported Mordin's efforts in ME2 then it allows you to convenience him that he was correct and to sabotage it and then go into hiding to complete the illusion that he was killed while curing it. Only Wrex will notice the cure didn't take and confront you while Wreav will continue on like nothing happened.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 4, 2021 23:07:07 GMT
By that standard Liara fails quite a bit as well. When you find her she fucked up and got herself trapped in a force bubble, in ME2 she done fucked up and got her compatriot captured by the shadow broker, in Me3 she fails to figure out and secure the mars info before evil robot grabs it, and she can die. Eh, taken in totality, Liara becoming an expert information broker with no setup overwhelms it. Especially when the Mary Sue's "flaws" tend to be klutzyness. Haha, what? So she didn't fail those things because she became the Shadow Broker? ... what?
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 5, 2021 0:26:06 GMT
Not really, they can fail pretty spectacularly, as the suicide mission shows. Eh, some of the mechanics around the suicide mission are pretty bad. Like, the character can go through the same ordeal, but their loyalty gives them just enough pep in their step to survive, whereas unresolved business has their soul going “aight, ima head out”. It’s even funnier if you get a character like Zaeed to carry forward while disloyal. The man dies to the sound of the Presidium ambient music. If he could hear it, I’m sure he’d be insulted. The loyalty mechanic reminds me of the capsule film reviews my local newspaper used to run. For some of the sillier films there would be a description of the setup, followed by "Buy the premise, buy the flick." The loyalty mechanic may not make rational sense, but it does a good job of tying the bits of ME2 together.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 5, 2021 2:57:24 GMT
Actually...no, when you consider that the Reapers harvest the humans and the Crucible is destroyed. The Reapers will know about it and it can't be used. That's what Starbrat says. That's not a success, that's a failure. You couldn't get the armies you wanted because you messed up. Reapers were harvesting humans. There is no EMS level that is low enough to prevent any choice from being made. To even reach the very low EMS you have to work for it. Like literally work your ass off across all 3 games to get that. Just playing the game will net you at least a moderate EMS score even if you make bad choices. Either way the Crucible fires and wipes out the Reapers, burns Earth to ash and blows up the Relays. But the Reapers are gone and the survivors can rebuild.
Errr...no. Mordin's weakness is that he is incapable of looking beyond what he did. He is consumed by perceived failures so much he'll side with a genocidal maniac like Wreav to assuage his guilt. Mordin was 100% for the Genophage in ME2. The change in ME3 is there because it lines up with the potential for Wrex to be around. That said you can still convince Mordin to sabotage the Genophage. If I remember correctly if you fully supported Mordin's efforts in ME2 then it allows you to convenience him that he was correct and to sabotage it and then go into hiding to complete the illusion that he was killed while curing it. Only Wrex will notice the cure didn't take and confront you while Wreav will continue on like nothing happened. The Crucible doesn't burn just Earth to ash if it fails. Remember the Crucible travels through the relay network, that's what happens when it fails. It scours the whole galaxy. Fully supporting Mordin doesn't let you save his life. You have to kill Wrex, and let Eve die. He's willing to gamble the future of the galaxy on at least one highly mutated krogan. A single person to Tuchanka the violent death world. No, that's stupidity.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 5, 2021 2:58:06 GMT
Eh, taken in totality, Liara becoming an expert information broker with no setup overwhelms it. Especially when the Mary Sue's "flaws" tend to be klutzyness. Haha, what? So she didn't fail those things because she became the Shadow Broker? ... what? Liara was an information broker before she became the Shadow Broker. And we had no reason to believe she had any talent in it.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Apr 5, 2021 4:17:00 GMT
Eh, some of the mechanics around the suicide mission are pretty bad. Like, the character can go through the same ordeal, but their loyalty gives them just enough pep in their step to survive, whereas unresolved business has their soul going “aight, ima head out”. It’s even funnier if you get a character like Zaeed to carry forward while disloyal. The man dies to the sound of the Presidium ambient music. If he could hear it, I’m sure he’d be insulted. The loyalty mechanic reminds me of the capsule film reviews my local newspaper used to run. For some of the sillier films there would be a description of the setup, followed by "Buy the premise, buy the flick." The loyalty mechanic may not make rational sense, but it does a good job of tying the bits of ME2 together. Some of the specifics might end up being silly, but the idea that if you are not fully focused you might slip up and die isn't irrational.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Apr 5, 2021 4:20:55 GMT
Haha, what? So she didn't fail those things because she became the Shadow Broker? ... what? Liara was an information broker before she became the Shadow Broker. And we had no reason to believe she had any talent in it. We have no reason to believe she wasn't either. She spent decades as a archaeologist before hand, which might not line up for the broker part of things but really does have a lot to do with gathering info and processing it. her mother was benezia, so she may have picked up a few things o back end deals etc and we have no idea where her life went in the 2 years we were dead.
Did I think it was silly and a bit out of the blue, sure. But she still does not strike me as a mary sue.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 5, 2021 10:55:35 GMT
Liara was an information broker before she became the Shadow Broker. And we had no reason to believe she had any talent in it. We have no reason to believe she wasn't either. She spent decades as a archaeologist before hand, which might not line up for the broker part of things but really does have a lot to do with gathering info and processing it. her mother was benezia, so she may have picked up a few things o back end deals etc and we have no idea where her life went in the 2 years we were dead.
Did I think it was silly and a bit out of the blue, sure. But she still does not strike me as a mary sue.
She and Benezia haven't spoken in a long time, given how Liara was absorbed in her work. Sorry, friendo, not sure that jives.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 5, 2021 13:05:01 GMT
Reapers were harvesting humans. There is no EMS level that is low enough to prevent any choice from being made. To even reach the very low EMS you have to work for it. Like literally work your ass off across all 3 games to get that. Just playing the game will net you at least a moderate EMS score even if you make bad choices. Either way the Crucible fires and wipes out the Reapers, burns Earth to ash and blows up the Relays. But the Reapers are gone and the survivors can rebuild.
Mordin was 100% for the Genophage in ME2. The change in ME3 is there because it lines up with the potential for Wrex to be around. That said you can still convince Mordin to sabotage the Genophage. If I remember correctly if you fully supported Mordin's efforts in ME2 then it allows you to convenience him that he was correct and to sabotage it and then go into hiding to complete the illusion that he was killed while curing it. Only Wrex will notice the cure didn't take and confront you while Wreav will continue on like nothing happened. The Crucible doesn't burn just Earth to ash if it fails. Remember the Crucible travels through the relay network, that's what happens when it fails. It scours the whole galaxy. Fully supporting Mordin doesn't let you save his life. You have to kill Wrex, and let Eve die. He's willing to gamble the future of the galaxy on at least one highly mutated krogan. A single person to Tuchanka the violent death world. No, that's stupidity. Two problems with your burns the whole galaxy statement. The first one is the existence of animals on the planet the SR-2 crashes onto. Even if no one survived the impact the existence of animals means the galaxy was not burned. The second one is Hackett at the end directly telling you that they gave everything they had. That they hope the lessons learned are not forgotten by the survivors who now have to rebuild.
Low EMS destroy might put the galaxy in a state similar to 40k's Age of Strife but it still exists and there is a lush green garden worlds still in existence.
Killing Wrex and letting Eve die is supporting Mordin. You stopped Wrex from trying to cure the Genophage in ME1. You destroyed the data that might lead to a cure in ME2. This is supporting his stance. And again the nature of this video game series across multiple games with multiple choices they have to be able to account for all variables. They can not write 8 different variations for every story arc. That just bloats the game and bloats development time. You need to realize this specific part is a compromise to allow the multiple variations to exist in a single game. This aspect is why no other game developer has multiple choices carry across multiple games. They either isolate each choice to a single game or the developers make canonical choices that are used to develop the next game. Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 are great examples of the last one. Were Black Isle Studios said "X,Y and Z is what happened during Fallout 1" and build the game around those choices they picked from the first game. Elder Scrolls is an example of the first one were your choices and actions are deliberately spread across long stretches of time between games to render their effects irrelevant in the long term. Allowing you to make new choices and actions without being tied down to the choices and actions of the previous game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Apr 5, 2021 13:46:29 GMT
We have no reason to believe she wasn't either. She spent decades as a archaeologist before hand, which might not line up for the broker part of things but really does have a lot to do with gathering info and processing it. her mother was benezia, so she may have picked up a few things o back end deals etc and we have no idea where her life went in the 2 years we were dead.
Did I think it was silly and a bit out of the blue, sure. But she still does not strike me as a mary sue.
She and Benezia haven't spoken in a long time, given how Liara was absorbed in her work. Sorry, friendo, not sure that jives. Shes freaking 100, she probably spent 60+ years with her mom.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 5, 2021 14:35:01 GMT
She and Benezia haven't spoken in a long time, given how Liara was absorbed in her work. Sorry, friendo, not sure that jives. Shes freaking 100, she probably spent 60+ years with her mom. It’s easy to forget the sheer amount of time afforded the asari to do just about anything. She could spend up to her adolescence with her mother, and for a human being that span of time would have them well into their senior years.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Apr 5, 2021 14:42:46 GMT
Shes freaking 100, she probably spent 60+ years with her mom. It’s easy to forget the sheer amount of time afforded the asari to do just about anything. She could spend up to her adolescence with her mother, and for a human being that span of time would have them well into their senior years. Its an area sci-fi/fantasy rarely does well with elves/asari or other long lived races. If you were young and energetic well past 100 the depth of skills you'd have would be insane.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 5, 2021 19:48:56 GMT
Shepard is perfect at everything they do. Again they only rarely fail or some short. And most of the time even failure still results in success. That's basically main characters in video games. So long as you acknowledge that then there's no issue here.
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Post by Radec on Apr 5, 2021 20:15:25 GMT
Shepard is perfect at everything they do. Again they only rarely fail or some short. And most of the time even failure still results in success. That's basically main characters in video games. So long as you acknowledge that then there's no issue here. If Shepard was perfect s/he wouldn't lose to Saren on Virmire, get killed in the beginning of ME2, have the whole crew kidnapped due to a naff tactical decision and then lose to Kai Leng multiple times through (cutscene) incompetence. Shepard is also malleable. For the most extreme example a Refuse Shepard is pretty indefensible. Dooms trillions of sentients due to an inability to swallow their pride. But then Liara saves the next cycle so it's all good. Glad she was so smart to think of an archive thing unlike those other hundreds of cycles. Wow
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 5, 2021 21:17:32 GMT
Shepard is perfect at everything they do. Again they only rarely fail or some short. And most of the time even failure still results in success. That's basically main characters in video games. So long as you acknowledge that then there's no issue here. That is why I don't complain about any of the NPC's. The game is nothing but mary sues who excel at everything they do. You can't complain about one without acknowledging they are all just as bad. And if they are all just as bad then the one doesn't stand out.
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 5, 2021 23:59:39 GMT
That's basically main characters in video games. So long as you acknowledge that then there's no issue here. If Shepard was perfect s/he wouldn't lose to Saren on Virmire, get killed in the beginning of ME2, have the whole crew kidnapped due to a naff tactical decision and then lose to Kai Leng multiple times through (cutscene) incompetence. Shepard is also malleable. For the most extreme example a Refuse Shepard is pretty indefensible. Dooms trillions of sentients due to an inability to swallow their pride. But then Liara saves the next cycle so it's all good. Glad she was so smart to think of an archive thing unlike those other hundreds of cycles. Wow I think Shep follows "The Hero's Journey". Don't know if that's a Mary Sue or not but would work with Virmire. I do agree that numerous choices Shep might make are anything but heroic. I don't know if there are mary sues who are evil. To me, Renegade Shep is no different than Saren, which would automatically disqualify him as a hero. Shooting Mordin in the back? Nah. No way is that a Mary Sue quality. Liara better fits Mary Sue. She's perfect. Wants to go from archaeologist to Shadow Broker in two years? No problem! Take my entire operation to a room about the SR2? Easy! It's just another day in the life of T'Soni. As for the archive, I wouldn't say it was all her. We had Vigil, the Prothean VI, from ME1. Sure, it wasn't intended to be an archive, but it ended up giving Shep just enough info to point them in the right direction. Vendetta could also have fulfilled that function. It might not be such a leap for her to look at Vigil and Vendetta and expand on that to create the archives.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 6, 2021 2:09:01 GMT
She and Benezia haven't spoken in a long time, given how Liara was absorbed in her work. Sorry, friendo, not sure that jives. Shes freaking 100, she probably spent 60+ years with her mom. At that point, Liara was a girl. Asari are considered children at 40, according to Samara. At 106, Liara is considered a young adult.
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Post by Phantom on Apr 6, 2021 3:23:28 GMT
If Shepard was perfect s/he wouldn't lose to Saren on Virmire, get killed in the beginning of ME2, have the whole crew kidnapped due to a naff tactical decision and then lose to Kai Leng multiple times through (cutscene) incompetence. Shepard is also malleable. For the most extreme example a Refuse Shepard is pretty indefensible. Dooms trillions of sentients due to an inability to swallow their pride. But then Liara saves the next cycle so it's all good. Glad she was so smart to think of an archive thing unlike those other hundreds of cycles. Wow I think Shep follows "The Hero's Journey". Don't know if that's a Mary Sue or not but would work with Virmire. I do agree that numerous choices Shep might make are anything but heroic. I don't know if there are mary sues who are evil. To me, Renegade Shep is no different than Saren, which would automatically disqualify him as a hero. Shooting Mordin in the back? Nah. No way is that a Mary Sue quality. Liara better fits Mary Sue. She's perfect. Wants to go from archaeologist to Shadow Broker in two years? No problem! Take my entire operation to a room about the SR2? Easy! It's just another day in the life of T'Soni. As for the archive, I wouldn't say it was all her. We had Vigil, the Prothean VI, from ME1. Sure, it wasn't intended to be an archive, but it ended up giving Shep just enough info to point them in the right direction. Vendetta could also have fulfilled that function. It might not be such a leap for her to look at Vigil and Vendetta and expand on that to create the archives. The villain version of a Mary Sue is the Villain Sue.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 6, 2021 3:39:57 GMT
If Shepard was perfect s/he wouldn't lose to Saren on Virmire, get killed in the beginning of ME2, have the whole crew kidnapped due to a naff tactical decision and then lose to Kai Leng multiple times through (cutscene) incompetence. Shepard is also malleable. For the most extreme example a Refuse Shepard is pretty indefensible. Dooms trillions of sentients due to an inability to swallow their pride. But then Liara saves the next cycle so it's all good. Glad she was so smart to think of an archive thing unlike those other hundreds of cycles. Wow I think Shep follows "The Hero's Journey". Don't know if that's a Mary Sue or not but would work with Virmire. I do agree that numerous choices Shep might make are anything but heroic. I don't know if there are mary sues who are evil. To me, Renegade Shep is no different than Saren, which would automatically disqualify him as a hero. Shooting Mordin in the back? Nah. No way is that a Mary Sue quality. Liara better fits Mary Sue. She's perfect. Wants to go from archaeologist to Shadow Broker in two years? No problem! Take my entire operation to a room about the SR2? Easy! It's just another day in the life of T'Soni. As for the archive, I wouldn't say it was all her. We had Vigil, the Prothean VI, from ME1. Sure, it wasn't intended to be an archive, but it ended up giving Shep just enough info to point them in the right direction. Vendetta could also have fulfilled that function. It might not be such a leap for her to look at Vigil and Vendetta and expand on that to create the archives. Liara doesn't go from an archeologist to Shadow Broker in 2 years. She goes from archeologist to small time information broker. Who needs the help of Cerberus to find the Shadow Broker's lair to free her friend Feron who was captured and tortured by the Shadow Broker. Needing Shepard to help out and only takes the Shadow Broker position when the opportunity presents it self. Which the system in place was already well established and self sufficient given it was ran by a single individual. And she only got away with it because the Shadow Broker doesn't meet with anyone in the organization directly so no one could tell she took over.
And even then she had to blow up the ship and run because Cerberus attacked.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Apr 6, 2021 4:17:48 GMT
Shes freaking 100, she probably spent 60+ years with her mom. At that point, Liara was a girl. Asari are considered children at 40, according to Samara. At 106, Liara is considered a young adult. A girl in her culture but she still had 100 years of experience. They aren't in diapers until 20, its just that their culture sees them as kids because they live to well over 1000 and the wisdom and knowledge that would allow shapes their perspective on Asari maturity.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Apr 6, 2021 4:19:11 GMT
I think Shep follows "The Hero's Journey". Don't know if that's a Mary Sue or not but would work with Virmire. I do agree that numerous choices Shep might make are anything but heroic. I don't know if there are mary sues who are evil. To me, Renegade Shep is no different than Saren, which would automatically disqualify him as a hero. Shooting Mordin in the back? Nah. No way is that a Mary Sue quality. Liara better fits Mary Sue. She's perfect. Wants to go from archaeologist to Shadow Broker in two years? No problem! Take my entire operation to a room about the SR2? Easy! It's just another day in the life of T'Soni. As for the archive, I wouldn't say it was all her. We had Vigil, the Prothean VI, from ME1. Sure, it wasn't intended to be an archive, but it ended up giving Shep just enough info to point them in the right direction. Vendetta could also have fulfilled that function. It might not be such a leap for her to look at Vigil and Vendetta and expand on that to create the archives. Liara doesn't go from an archeologist to Shadow Broker in 2 years. She goes from archeologist to small time information broker. Who needs the help of Cerberus to find the Shadow Broker's lair to free her friend Feron who was captured and tortured by the Shadow Broker. Needing Shepard to help out and only takes the Shadow Broker position when the opportunity presents it self. Which the system in place was already well established and self sufficient given it was ran by a single individual. And she only got away with it because the Shadow Broker doesn't meet with anyone in the organization directly so no one could tell she took over.
And even then she had to blow up the ship and run because Cerberus attacked.
And I think the shadow broker she takes over form had a very similar method for achieving the title.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 6, 2021 13:08:41 GMT
Liara doesn't go from an archeologist to Shadow Broker in 2 years. She goes from archeologist to small time information broker. Who needs the help of Cerberus to find the Shadow Broker's lair to free her friend Feron who was captured and tortured by the Shadow Broker. Needing Shepard to help out and only takes the Shadow Broker position when the opportunity presents it self. Which the system in place was already well established and self sufficient given it was ran by a single individual. And she only got away with it because the Shadow Broker doesn't meet with anyone in the organization directly so no one could tell she took over.
And even then she had to blow up the ship and run because Cerberus attacked.
And I think the shadow broker she takes over form had a very similar method for achieving the title. Yep. Taken off his planet as a pet. Learned the craft by watching and then killed the previous one and all the people who knew him and kept himself totally isolated from the rest of the organization.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 6, 2021 16:46:33 GMT
Liara doesn't go from an archeologist to Shadow Broker in 2 years. She goes from archeologist to small time information broker. Who needs the help of Cerberus to find the Shadow Broker's lair to free her friend Feron who was captured and tortured by the Shadow Broker. Needing Shepard to help out and only takes the Shadow Broker position when the opportunity presents it self. Which the system in place was already well established and self sufficient given it was ran by a single individual. And she only got away with it because the Shadow Broker doesn't meet with anyone in the organization directly so no one could tell she took over. In Lair of the Shadow Broker, Liara became the Shadow Broker. So, yeah, she became the Shadow Broker in two years. That's regardless of whether or not you played the dlc. In any case, even becoming an information broker in such a short time is ridiculous. Liara never screws up. Or, if she does, she overcomes it. Like Shepard.
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