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Post by mtheillusive on Jun 10, 2021 1:14:26 GMT
Ok....how bout this!
You know how the Legendary Edition is 3 full games in one? Well here's a solution!
5 GAMES IN 1!
1 for Destroy, 1 for Control, 1 For Synthesis, 1 For Refuse, and 1 for a sequel to Andromeda
All in one game. Thats it. Something to shut everyone the hell up and move on with closure with any ending that they please.
Oh wait....people are going to complain about that too.
Oh well
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 10, 2021 1:20:48 GMT
Ok....how bout this! You know how the Legendary Edition is 3 full games in one? Well here's a solution! 5 GAMES IN 1! 1 for Destroy, 1 for Control, 1 For Synthesis, 1 For Refuse, and 1 for a sequel to Andromeda All in one game. Thats it. Something to shut everyone the hell up and move on with closure with any ending that they please. Oh wait....people are going to complain about that too. Oh well Why have 5 games in one when you can have... *Gasp* 10 games in one!  |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 10, 2021 2:00:14 GMT
I know how analysis work. However every analysis is going to be colored by the individual's perspective. Bias exist in everything. Even math can have bias in it if you cherry pick the numbers you want. That is what those covid denying idiots do were they take the number of people that died and compare it to the total population. Rather then the actual correct way of taking the total number that died and comparing it to total infected to get the death rate. Their bias cherry picks details to reduce the death rate of covid to validate their stance that it is nothing to worry about.
Your bias is so staggeringly obvious that you metaphorically shit the bed when I dared to criticize J.R.R Tolkien to prove a point because for some you seem to think he is beyond reproach and some divine angel writing the unquestionably word of god.
And if you were consistent with your whole analysis argument then you would have set down your controller on 2007 and never picked up another ME game again and you would be doing something else. I assume you'd be on some other game forum ranting at someone that some random youtuber is speaking the unquestionable word of god that only morons and trolls would dare disagree with. Based only on the fact their opinion lines up with your own.
No, you don't understand how analysis works, because if you did, you wouldn't throw the entirety of literature under the bus in order to try and catch people in a childish "gotcha!" moment because you think every work in existence having flaws means you either shut up about flaws or hate everything. That is not how it has ever, or ever will work. You are a child for having that mind-set. And until you get that through your ridiculous narrow-minded head there is nothing to speak with you about. Only you think it is a gotcha moment. All I am doing is applying your own logic consistently. If your own logic applied consistently throws the entirety of literature under the bus then may be your logic is the flawed one. The fact you can't even consider your own logic might need to be reexamined and instead scream troll at someone who points out the flaws in your reasoning is amusing to me. Like a living embodiment of the meme:
You treat all flaws equally or none of them matter. None of this cherry picking BS were you scream that Mac Walters is a hack while Tolkien is a literary god that can not be challenged when they are both guilty of the same fucking thing. If Bilbo can be treking across a 400 mile long mountain range and end up in the specific goblin cave that connects to Gollum's lair and falls down the specific cave tunnel that ends with him laying right in front of the ring. Then Mac can have Shepard pop out of the teleporter into the Citadel right near were TIM is at.
But by all means scorch earth all fiction into ash just so you can get in one more complaint about ME3's writing.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 10, 2021 8:31:39 GMT
You cannot as a writer just say "their better, the end" I never said that. But they're made from the Reapers. The guys that wrote the book on Mass Effect technology. If we are to believe that the Reapers are that advanced, then it is safe to assume that the Collectors are, at worst, marginally inferior to them. Or maybe the Reapers made them super fucking weak as a joke. Because it doesn't make sense otherwise. I mean if all it takes to beat that ship are slightly better shields, armor, and weapons, as evidenced by the suicide mission, then their technological advantage is basically non existent. That's the only relevant upgrades that affect beating the Collector ship. Same ship specs, same stealth systems. No! These are state of the art upgrades. These are stuff we didn't even have 2 years ago, not just on the Normandy, but in general. Nobody had a Thanix canon, for example. And even then, we get boarded by those ... round things that I forget what they were called, Joker is obviously surprised the upgrades worked as well as they did, because he thoroughly expected that we would get blown the fuck out, it's really a by the skin of your teeth situation. It's quite likely that any pilot less than Joker, and even he had EDI's help, upgrades or not, would have been destroyed. It is under very specific conditions that Joker even manages to save the ship. Not to mention that, without the upgrades, you lose a lot of ship and a lot of people. Probably would have gone a lot worse, had EDI not been there, again. |
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 10, 2021 14:22:16 GMT
That's a take I can follow. For me, the Trek in Mass Effect is everywhere. Explore, seek out new life and new civilizations. Have sex with them. Possibly get put into a death match for honor or your second-in-command's wacky sex drive. The only thing really missing, I mean reeeeally missing, is the Prime Directive. BOLDLY BANG WHAT NO MAN HAS BANGED BEFORE! I mean, I think it's very Trek-ish. It's a game that follows Trek's basic formula. Walk around the ship and talk to people, the very core of what Trek is. It is also the core of ME's narrative content. Hell ME1 even had the Staff meetings that TOS and TNG did where everyone sits around in a circle giving their opinions. The tone is completely different, though. Picard wouldn't be caught dead with murderous bounty hunters, "racist" jarheads and violent renegade cops on his crew. And if your Shepard tends more neutral or Renegade it's even further apart. I always saw this series closer in tone to Nu-BSG, Farscape or B5 than Trek. So the tone shift from 1 to 2 seems slight, IMO. People put emphasis on joining Cerberus as particularly bad compared to anything in 1 for some reason, but you previously worked as a lawless agent for a Council that is openly Racist/Supremacist and exploitative towards the "lesser species" (Avina's words). The type of organization that turned a blind eye to a psycho like Saren killing entire factory towns worth of people to accomplish their objectives. Really not so different from terrorism, and Saren isn't the only one. Vasir in 2 does the same sort of thing blowing up a building to get her target as a hit job for the galaxy's biggest mob boss. The organization seems to be full of complete scumbags. Unless you count super new Trek (Discovery, Picard). MET's tone is pretty much in line with those. The latter's plot is shoddily ripped off from ME3's
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Post by mtheillusive on Jun 10, 2021 14:58:04 GMT
Mass Effect is VERY similar to Star Trek, but from a different perspective. Star Trek, in regards to history, in a lot of ways starts with the warp drive of Zefran Cochrane, leading to peaceful first contact with the Vulcans in the 2060s. Starfleet (which was initially only Earth) becomes a thing in the 2130s, and then becomes one with the multispecies United Federation of Planets in 2161. By this time onwards, the idea is that humanity has evolved to be a generally peaceful race who seems to overcome greed, etc, old outdated ways of thinking. Its a very preachy series. Mass Effect took a different approach. Humanity discovers the Mass Effect Relays in 2148, and about a decade later have their first contact, but unlike Star Trek, it isn't peaceful. They are introduced to the already existing galactic community, which differs from Star Trek where humanity sort of MADE the galactic community. As humanity is clearly not on equal footing to the other Mass Effect races, they are the underdog. And unlike the human race take from Star Trek where we have become all Kumbaya, in Mass Effect its similar to real life today: you have the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything else inbetween. While still human centric like Star Trek, it throws the preachiness out the window. Overall though it is VERY much like Star Trek imo. And if the main Trek universe is paragon, and the Mirror universe is Renegade....Mass Effect fits right in-between the two  Oh and Trek is BLATANTLY copying Mass Effect now lol. Picard with the beacons and Reaper wannabes, and Discovery currently with Andromeda lol (all the way down to the randomly moving nano tech looking stuff the remnant have) Speaking of that, that another reason why I think its best to move on from Shepard and expand on the Mass Effect Universe without him and the crew. The same way fans are stuck on Shepard is the same exact way many Trekkies were stuck on Kirk and co when Picard and crew first came out. Over time, however, Picard and co grew into their own thing, and then DS9 and Voyager were added and greatly expanded the Star Trek Universe to what we know today. Mass Effect CAN be much bigger than Shepard. |
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 10, 2021 15:13:03 GMT
Mass Effect took a different approach. Humanity discovers the Mass Effect Relays in 2148, and about a decade later have their first contact, but unlike Star Trek, it isn't peaceful. They are introduced to the already existing galactic community, which differs from Star Trek where humanity sort of MADE the galactic community. That's Babylon 5, buddy. Oh and Trek is BLATANTLY copying Mass Effect now lol. Picard with the beacons and Reaper wannabes, and Discovery currently with Andromeda lol (all the way down to the randomly moving nano tech looking stuff the remnant have) Yeah. Star Trek copying the worst aspects of Mass Effect, because Alex Kurtzman is a hack. |
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 10, 2021 17:25:48 GMT
I mean, I think it's very Trek-ish. It's a game that follows Trek's basic formula. Walk around the ship and talk to people, the very core of what Trek is. It is also the core of ME's narrative content. Hell ME1 even had the Staff meetings that TOS and TNG did where everyone sits around in a circle giving their opinions. The tone is completely different, though. Picard wouldn't be caught dead with murderous bounty hunters, "racist" jarheads and violent renegade cops on his crew. And if your Shepard tends more neutral or Renegade it's even further apart. I always saw this series closer in tone to Nu-BSG, Farscape or B5 than Trek. So the tone shift from 1 to 2 seems slight, IMO. People put emphasis on joining Cerberus as particularly bad compared to anything in 1 for some reason, but you previously worked as a lawless agent for a Council that is openly Racist/Supremacist and exploitative towards the "lesser species" (Avina's words). The type of organization that turned a blind eye to a psycho like Saren killing entire factory towns worth of people to accomplish their objectives. Really not so different from terrorism, and Saren isn't the only one. Vasir in 2 does the same sort of thing blowing up a building to get her target as a hit job for the galaxy's biggest mob boss. The organization seems to be full of complete scumbags. Unless you count super new Trek (Discovery, Picard). MET's tone is pretty much in line with those. The latter's plot is shoddily ripped off from ME3's Yea, of course the tone is different. Star Trek is a naive idealistic future where humans are unrealistically flawless. Mass Effect is vastly more realistic by comparison. I didn't mention the tone though, I was clearly talking about it only in the sense of it's structure.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 10, 2021 17:37:14 GMT
You cannot as a writer just say "their better, the end" I never said that. But they're made from the Reapers. The guys that wrote the book on Mass Effect technology. If we are to believe that the Reapers are that advanced, then it is safe to assume that the Collectors are, at worst, marginally inferior to them. Or maybe the Reapers made them super fucking weak as a joke. Because it doesn't make sense otherwise. I mean if all it takes to beat that ship are slightly better shields, armor, and weapons, as evidenced by the suicide mission, then their technological advantage is basically non existent. That's the only relevant upgrades that affect beating the Collector ship. Same ship specs, same stealth systems. No! These are state of the art upgrades. These are stuff we didn't even have 2 years ago, not just on the Normandy, but in general. Nobody had a Thanix canon, for example. And even then, we get boarded by those ... round things that I forget what they were called, Joker is obviously surprised the upgrades worked as well as they did, because he thoroughly expected that we would get blown the fuck out, it's really a by the skin of your teeth situation. It's quite likely that any pilot less than Joker, and even he had EDI's help, upgrades or not, would have been destroyed. It is under very specific conditions that Joker even manages to save the ship. Not to mention that, without the upgrades, you lose a lot of ship and a lot of people. Probably would have gone a lot worse, had EDI not been there, again. Except Dreadnaughts without Thanix Guns are blowing off huge chunks of Reaper ships, so even though there is new, state of the art technology, it's clearly not required to cripple Reaper ships, nevermind Collectors, if the Collectors are only slightly less advanced than a Reaper, then SR2 should have no chance at all, regardless of Stellaris Armor or Thanix guns, because it's a dinky Frigate. The narrative does not explain the difference, it does not clarify how it is possible. In no situation, in the entire game is the gap described. You are using heavy assumption to reach a conclusion that the game does not clarify.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 10, 2021 19:38:53 GMT
Mass Effect is VERY similar to Star Trek, but from a different perspective. Star Trek, in regards to history, in a lot of ways starts with the warp drive of Zefran Cochrane, leading to peaceful first contact with the Vulcans in the 2060s. Starfleet (which was initially only Earth) becomes a thing in the 2130s, and then becomes one with the multispecies United Federation of Planets in 2161. By this time onwards, the idea is that humanity has evolved to be a generally peaceful race who seems to overcome greed, etc, old outdated ways of thinking. Its a very preachy series. Mass Effect took a different approach. Humanity discovers the Mass Effect Relays in 2148, and about a decade later have their first contact, but unlike Star Trek, it isn't peaceful. They are introduced to the already existing galactic community, which differs from Star Trek where humanity sort of MADE the galactic community. As humanity is clearly not on equal footing to the other Mass Effect races, they are the underdog. And unlike the human race take from Star Trek where we have become all Kumbaya, in Mass Effect its similar to real life today: you have the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything else inbetween. While still human centric like Star Trek, it throws the preachiness out the window. Overall though it is VERY much like Star Trek imo. And if the main Trek universe is paragon, and the Mirror universe is Renegade....Mass Effect fits right in-between the two The only thing that Star Trek and Mass Effect have in common besides super broad ideas like FTL travel and a galactic community is that they treat humans as unique and special among all the other races. Star Trek does that by having all other races act as stereotypes of negative human traits cranked up to 11. Mass Effect just says humans are special because they are apparently the only species that doesn't engage in copious amounts of incest. Because some how humans are more genetically diverse.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 10, 2021 21:18:25 GMT
The tone is completely different, though. Picard wouldn't be caught dead with murderous bounty hunters, "racist" jarheads and violent renegade cops on his crew. And if your Shepard tends more neutral or Renegade it's even further apart. I always saw this series closer in tone to Nu-BSG, Farscape or B5 than Trek. So the tone shift from 1 to 2 seems slight, IMO. People put emphasis on joining Cerberus as particularly bad compared to anything in 1 for some reason, but you previously worked as a lawless agent for a Council that is openly Racist/Supremacist and exploitative towards the "lesser species" (Avina's words). The type of organization that turned a blind eye to a psycho like Saren killing entire factory towns worth of people to accomplish their objectives. Really not so different from terrorism, and Saren isn't the only one. Vasir in 2 does the same sort of thing blowing up a building to get her target as a hit job for the galaxy's biggest mob boss. The organization seems to be full of complete scumbags. Unless you count super new Trek (Discovery, Picard). MET's tone is pretty much in line with those. The latter's plot is shoddily ripped off from ME3's Yea, of course the tone is different. Star Trek is a naive idealistic future where humans are unrealistically flawless. Mass Effect is vastly more realistic by comparison. I didn't mention the tone though, I was clearly talking about it only in the sense of it's structure. Sure, but skimming a little bit of that critique I gathered the guy was referencing the tone shift as to why he didn't like 2. As for the structure, I think 2 is more like the TOS or TNG episodic format, assuming you treat the companion quests as "episodes" unrelated to any central plot. The plot, themes and ideas presented in any individual mission are largely self contained, and you can pick up on and consume any one of them without really having any idea what the Collector plot is on about. ME1 was more like DS9, where the individual missions (Feros, Noveria etc.) are their own episodes but they all contribute to an overarching narrative. You won't understand who, why and what the characters like Shiala and Benezia are doing unless you know of the Saren/Sovereign/Geth plot they're involved in. But the uncharted worlds and N7 assignments in both games muddle the comparison somewhat.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 11, 2021 1:07:57 GMT
Yea, of course the tone is different. Star Trek is a naive idealistic future where humans are unrealistically flawless. Mass Effect is vastly more realistic by comparison. I didn't mention the tone though, I was clearly talking about it only in the sense of it's structure. Sure, but skimming a little bit of that critique I gathered the guy was referencing the tone shift as to why he didn't like 2. As for the structure, I think 2 is more like the TOS or TNG episodic format, assuming you treat the companion quests as "episodes" unrelated to any central plot. The plot, themes and ideas presented in any individual mission are largely self contained, and you can pick up on and consume any one of them without really having any idea what the Collector plot is on about. ME1 was more like DS9, where the individual missions (Feros, Noveria etc.) are their own episodes but they all contribute to an overarching narrative. You won't understand who, why and what the characters like Shiala and Benezia are doing unless you know of the Saren/Sovereign/Geth plot they're involved in. But the uncharted worlds and N7 assignments in both games muddle the comparison somewhat. The comparison wasn't that, exactly. He simply mentions that ME1 and ME2, are as different from each other as Star Trek The Motion Picture is, from Into Darkness. Which is a fairly accurate comparison, in terms of how different they are from each other.
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quarianmasterrace
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: QuarianMasteRace
Posts: 175 Likes: 612
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 11, 2021 14:05:34 GMT
Sure, but skimming a little bit of that critique I gathered the guy was referencing the tone shift as to why he didn't like 2. As for the structure, I think 2 is more like the TOS or TNG episodic format, assuming you treat the companion quests as "episodes" unrelated to any central plot. The plot, themes and ideas presented in any individual mission are largely self contained, and you can pick up on and consume any one of them without really having any idea what the Collector plot is on about. ME1 was more like DS9, where the individual missions (Feros, Noveria etc.) are their own episodes but they all contribute to an overarching narrative. You won't understand who, why and what the characters like Shiala and Benezia are doing unless you know of the Saren/Sovereign/Geth plot they're involved in. But the uncharted worlds and N7 assignments in both games muddle the comparison somewhat. The comparison wasn't that, exactly. He simply mentions that ME1 and ME2, are as different from each other as Star Trek The Motion Picture is, from Into Darkness. Which is a fairly accurate comparison, in terms of how different they are from each other. Ah, okay. I read it a bit more and he's talking about the gradual shift from more rules first hard-er sci fi to drama first space fantasy That's fair. The breather masks and ninja swords came in later. Similar to how Abramstrek doesn't even try to be scientifically literate compared to the older stuff. I wouldn't say it's quite as much a shift as the shift from Star Trek 1 to Into Darkness though. ME2 at least didn't derail all the previous characters. There's no "Spock shouts and beats defenseless man" moment. You have to wait until 3 for that sort of thing to start happening. 
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 11, 2021 14:34:44 GMT
The comparison wasn't that, exactly. He simply mentions that ME1 and ME2, are as different from each other as Star Trek The Motion Picture is, from Into Darkness. Which is a fairly accurate comparison, in terms of how different they are from each other. Ah, okay. I read it a bit more and he's talking about the gradual shift from more rules first hard-er sci fi to drama first space fantasy That's fair. The breather masks and ninja swords came in later. Similar to how Abramstrek doesn't even try to be scientifically literate compared to the older stuff. I wouldn't say it's quite as much a shift as the shift from Star Trek 1 to Into Darkness though. ME2 at least didn't derail all the previous characters. There's no "Spock shouts and beats defenseless man" moment. You have to wait until 3 for that sort of thing to start happening. I'd argue the comparison is more apt to say that while ME1 is like Star Trek: The Motion Picture (very pretty, but extremely boring), ME2 is Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan, or Star Trek: First Contact. ME3 is basically any of the 3 Jar Jar Trek movies. Just take your pick. Well, I'd say Jar Jar: Beyond wasn't as bad as Jar Jar: Into Darkness
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jun 11, 2021 16:31:29 GMT
The comparison wasn't that, exactly. He simply mentions that ME1 and ME2, are as different from each other as Star Trek The Motion Picture is, from Into Darkness. Which is a fairly accurate comparison, in terms of how different they are from each other. Ah, okay. I read it a bit more and he's talking about the gradual shift from more rules first hard-er sci fi to drama first space fantasy That's fair. The breather masks and ninja swords came in later. Similar to how Abramstrek doesn't even try to be scientifically literate compared to the older stuff. I wouldn't say it's quite as much a shift as the shift from Star Trek 1 to Into Darkness though. ME2 at least didn't derail all the previous characters. There's no "Spock shouts and beats defenseless man" moment. You have to wait until 3 for that sort of thing to start happening. I could strongly argue that the VS was fairly strongly derailed, and the train crash kept going into ME3.
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