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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2021 1:53:49 GMT
Aye, it did. Then Bio rewrote it with the EC and added the refuse ending. And even that is still a better ending than control or synthesis. A fade to black ending is better than those two. 😉
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 7, 2021 5:33:39 GMT
Aye, it did. Then Bio rewrote it with the EC and added the refuse ending. And even that is still a better ending than control or synthesis. And all three are better endings than Destroy.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 7, 2021 6:19:55 GMT
And even that is still a better ending than control or synthesis. And all three are better endings than Destroy. And you're entitled to your opinion, as are we all. What will you do if the next Mass Effect is based off the Destroy ending?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 7, 2021 6:45:59 GMT
And all three are better endings than Destroy. And you're entitled to your opinion, as are we all. What will you do if the next Mass Effect is based off the Destroy ending? Not buy it. I have no interest in playing a game that kills off my favorite race and made a protagonist of mine one who supports genocide all so the company can milk them more.
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Post by NotN7 on Jun 7, 2021 6:51:57 GMT
And you're entitled to your opinion, as are we all. What will you do if the next Mass Effect is based off the Destroy ending? Not buy it. I have no interest in playing a game that kills off my favorite race and made a protagonist of mine one who supports genocide all so the company can milk them more. So your are a Reaper fan??? are I'm missing something??
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Post by Sondergaard on Jun 7, 2021 6:53:05 GMT
And you're entitled to your opinion, as are we all. What will you do if the next Mass Effect is based off the Destroy ending? Not buy it. I have no interest in playing a game that kills off my favorite race and made a protagonist of mine one who supports genocide all so the company can milk them more. If they retcon the ending to canonise destroy they'd probably retcon the geth being wiped out as well. That was only there to give people pause (which tells you how badly thought out synthesis and control are). Without the geth being annihilated destroy is a no brainer.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 7, 2021 7:06:46 GMT
Not buy it. I have no interest in playing a game that kills off my favorite race and made a protagonist of mine one who supports genocide all so the company can milk them more. So your are a Reaper fan??? are I'm missing something?? I was referring to the Geth. Not buy it. I have no interest in playing a game that kills off my favorite race and made a protagonist of mine one who supports genocide all so the company can milk them more. If they retcon the ending to canonise destroy they'd probably retcon the geth being wiped out as well. That was only there to give people pause (which tells you how badly thought out synthesis and control are). Without the geth being annihilated destroy is a no brainer. Eh, even without that ultimatum I would've still chosen Synthesis. It has a lot more interesting possibilities than Destroy. Also them canonizing that much has it's own turn offs, since why bother with choices at that point when they'll just retcon them anyway?
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jun 7, 2021 7:32:32 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again, but the easiest ending to canonize is what the old "Cerberus/Alliance News Network" RP site went with...
Which is Control where the Reapers and their creations vanish. No pesky Schrodinger's Geth!
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 7, 2021 9:33:26 GMT
And you're entitled to your opinion, as are we all. What will you do if the next Mass Effect is based off the Destroy ending? Not buy it. I have no interest in playing a game that kills off my favorite race and made a protagonist of mine one who supports genocide all so the company can milk them more. That's why I just refuse to believe it when it says that. But as much as I love Legion and the Geth, genocide is better than raping the entire galaxy's DNA and changing everyone forever without their knowledge or consent. That's straight up fucked lol.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 7, 2021 11:18:53 GMT
And even that is still a better ending than control or synthesis. And all three are better endings than Destroy. How is green better than red? Thing says nothing negative about green. It's the only ending having it remain. It says it controls the reapers. With green will it be able to control organics as well? It says it can't be forced yet Shepard is forcing it on the galaxy if chosen. Green is the final evolution of all life. That means life won't evolve anymore than what they are currently at. That can't be good. Green works in it's favor not organics. The main reason is because it remains as does it's toys. The same with the blue. That's a no-go. Red gets rid of thing and the reapers. Let the galaxy deal with whatever problem arises. The reapers were never needed.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 7, 2021 12:06:17 GMT
Different end state is still different end state for different reasons. The fact you get a choice on how to end the game is far different from other games like BioShock were the ending is predetermined based on previous actions. IE harvest X amount of little sister and you auto get the bad ending while sparing X amount auto gives you the good ending.
Stuff before the ending does count. It is your game world that is unique to that play though. Your world state might be different then my world state from small to large amounts.
Well if that is the case then it could be argued that ME3, in it's entirety, is just one big ending. Almost everything you do is capping off story arcs from the previous two games. However, the biggest central conflict to the entire story is "stop the Reapers", and when it comes down to that central conflict alone, there were only 3 different endings Pre-EC. With everything else you did in the story beforehand (regarding the Reapers) irrelevant.
Oh yes I absolutely agree that ME3 in it's entirty is just one big ending. Which is kind of the point of the final game or book or episode or movie. Wrapping everything up and addressing as many plot points as can be done.
The endings are a nexus point of all your choices. They all lead up to your choice and your reasoning. Think of them like a pyramid and the point is the final choice. Your previous choices and the reason behind them shapes or Shepard and shapes your choice and your reason behind that choice. It also retains player agency to make a choice that contradicts their previous actions because people can do that.
Pre EC is pretty irrelevant now because the EC has been the offical ending since it was released. People complain about BioWare not rewriting the endings with the LE edition but they already did with the Extended Cut nearly a decade ago.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 7, 2021 12:20:47 GMT
And all three are better endings than Destroy. How is green better than red? Thing says nothing negative about green. It's the only ending having it remain. It says it controls the reapers. With green will it be able to control organics as well? It says it can't be forced yet Shepard is forcing it on the galaxy if chosen. Green is the final evolution of all life. That means life won't evolve anymore than what they are currently at. That can't be good. Green works in it's favor not organics. The main reason is because it remains as does it's toys. The same with the blue. That's a no-go. Red gets rid of thing and the reapers. Let the galaxy deal with whatever problem arises. The reapers were never needed. Were does synthesis say about controlling organics?
So are you saying there wouldn't' be a point in evolution were we gain the capabilities to integrate with technology on a biological level?
You say let the galaxy deal with whatever problem arises and yet by that reasoning we know the Prothenas and Quarians would have been wiped out. The Protheans had to use the Mass Relays to travel the galaxy and forcibly united organic races under their empire to turn the tide of the Metcon War. The Quarians only survived because of the Mass Relay Network and being able to flee to safer areas with infrastructure needed to sustain the Flotilla which was only possible thanks to the Mass Relays and Reaper tech. We don't know if Leviathan had Relays or tech that allowed similar travel times. But we do know entire species died in conflict with synethetics. This isn't 1 species for 1 planet as they could easily be like the other races were a single species has multiple planets under their control and in their territory.
Honestly your last part of your post comes across like the Mass Effect version of an anti vaxxer sitting safe in the USA in 2021 claiming we don't need vaccines because Polio isn't a problem because no one I see has polio. Which is a direct result of vaccines nearly eliminating polio from the USA.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 7, 2021 12:39:18 GMT
Were does synthesis say about controlling organics? Where, or as you spell it, were, in my post did I say green controls organics?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 7, 2021 14:04:17 GMT
Were does synthesis say about controlling organics? Where, or as you spell it, were, in my post did I say green controls organics? Sure How is green better than red? Thing says nothing negative about green. It's the only ending having it remain. It says it controls the reapers. With green will it be able to control organics as well? It says it can't be forced yet Shepard is forcing it on the galaxy if chosen. Green is the final evolution of all life. That means life won't evolve anymore than what they are currently at. That can't be good. Green works in it's favor not organics. The main reason is because it remains as does it's toys. The same with the blue. That's a no-go. Red gets rid of thing and the reapers. Let the galaxy deal with whatever problem arises. The reapers were never needed.
There is no mention of controlling organics with Synthesis. To bring that up as a question means you have to think it would. After all if you went to a restaurant and ordered your food you wouldn't ask the waiter if your chicken salad had feces in it unless you legitimately thought that restaurant just drops poo in every dish.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2021 14:06:05 GMT
Not buy it. I have no interest in playing a game that kills off my favorite race and made a protagonist of mine one who supports genocide all so the company can milk them more. If they retcon the ending to canonise destroy they'd probably retcon the geth being wiped out as well. That was only there to give people pause (which tells you how badly thought out synthesis and control are). Without the geth being annihilated destroy is a no brainer. That's pretty much all you do post RW. Blue is hard to build up on since the galaxy is in a police state and green is a dead end, you can't build up on it.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 7, 2021 14:08:28 GMT
There is no mention of controlling organics with Synthesis. To bring that up as a question means you have to think it would. You were wrong in what you posted. I asked, not said it would. And more of your useless analogies that has nothing to do with nothing.
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Post by ergates on Jun 7, 2021 15:14:18 GMT
Whereabouts is MEHEM in your poll?
Without MEHEM I do nothing. I won't even encounter the Star Brat. My plan is to enter the beam, have the meeting with Anderson, then headcanon the MEHEM scenario, quit the game and reload an earlier save in the Citadel. My ending is, as always, Shep survives, the Reapers are destroyed, no synthetics or AIs are harmed, Shep makes his way back to the Citadel, receives a hero's welcome, and retires to a quiet life with his beloved Liara, occasionally doing the talk show circuit, and visiting schools as a special guest.
That is is, that is CANON - and all else is nonsense.
The forced choice of Red - Reapers die, but you commit the worst act of genocide in galactic history, annihilating untold megatrillions of sentient AIs, Blue - control Reapers with unknown long-term results, or Green - join the Borg Collective is nonsense in my book. None of it matters.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Jun 7, 2021 15:18:30 GMT
Well if that is the case then it could be argued that ME3, in it's entirety, is just one big ending. Almost everything you do is capping off story arcs from the previous two games. However, the biggest central conflict to the entire story is "stop the Reapers", and when it comes down to that central conflict alone, there were only 3 different endings Pre-EC. With everything else you did in the story beforehand (regarding the Reapers) irrelevant. Oh yes I absolutely agree that ME3 in it's entirty is just one big ending. Which is kind of the point of the final game or book or episode or movie. Wrapping everything up and addressing as many plot points as can be done. Well if the game is just one giant ending, then why introduce a new plot element in the final scene of the game? They should have left the Reaper's motivations unknown or kept it simple, such as they harvest us every 50k purely for self-fulfilling reasons like climbing the food chain of intergalactic apex races. The endings are a nexus point of all your choices. They all lead up to your choice and your reasoning. Think of them like a pyramid and the point is the final choice. Your previous choices and the reason behind them shapes or Shepard and shapes your choice and your reason behind that choice. It also retains player agency to make a choice that contradicts their previous actions because people can do that. Please, the synthetic v organic theme had only been brought up a handful of times in the entire trilogy, with the main story arcs of this theme having the potential to completely contradict what the Catalyst is even saying. Your choices don't lead up to that point, they are negated by it. "Helped the Quarian and Geth get along to fight the Reapers? Doesn't matter because you're not fighting the Reapers anymore, instead you're resolving the unfathomably long metaphysical tension across the entire galaxy between organic and synthetic life without any idea or lead up that it even existed in the first place. Oh and if you really want the Reapers dead, well go for it, but you'll also kill the Geth, your squadmate EDI and other random stuff because the beam is sophisticated enough to change everyone's DNA in the entire galaxy on a molecular level, in an instant and for eternity. But it cannot differentiate between Reapers and other AI. Pre EC is pretty irrelevant now because the EC has been the offical ending since it was released. People complain about BioWare not rewriting the endings with the LE edition but they already did with the Extended Cut nearly a decade ago.
Except for the fact that they didn't rewrite the endings, so complain away. They just put mayonnaise on the poo sandwich. Okay, that is a bit harsh because they did put love into the EC ending, so maybe some lettuce and cheese as well. But the real flaws, the flaws in the narrative coherence of the plot, still remained. Those critiques were either drowned out by people complaining that it was too sad and too brief, or Bioware were too stubborn to change it (until now it looks like). So because the real issues with it were never resolved and instead just elaborated on. As I said, complain away. And the original endings should always be relevant. This is the entire problem with the gaming industry right here, this attitude that it doesn't matter how a game company releases their game because they can just fix it later. Because then companies do exactly what they did with Mass Effect 3... "Unfinished game? That's okay, as long as it has Day 1 DLC (of a major plot character), a broken and tacked-on Multiplayer you're obligated to play in order to get the best ending, but really because that's where all the cash-grab loot boxes are, then it doesn't need a proper, thematically coherent ending to the game. We can add that later!" Did you know, that in the final hours interview that came out on release of ME3, they were still toying with cutscene design features for the ending in Nov 2011. Literally 3-4 months before the game was released (not went gold) they still didn't know how to wrap up the ending. That's insane! Furthermore, what happened in those original endings must be looked at because it's evidence that the quality of work we got (from a once reputable studio) was the Direct result of EA not giving them extensions and pushing it out no matter what condition it was in. This is what Mass Effect 3 was to me in March 2012. And history repeats itself again in Cyberpunk because most gamers have your attitude that it doesn't matter what state a game is in on release, as long as they fix it down the track.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 7, 2021 15:20:34 GMT
The forced choice of Red - Reapers die, but you commit the worst act of genocide in galactic history, annihilating untold megatrillions of sentient AIs, Blue - control Reapers with unknown long-term results, or Green - join the Borg Collective is nonsense in my book. None of it matters. Considering that all these AIs are powered by Organics, that never wanted to be part of that AI, I don't think it's an act of genocide. No more than killing a zombie/husk is. If anything, it is an act of mercy. Offering those troubled souls a final release. People forget that nobody was actually on board to become Reaper Goo.
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 7, 2021 15:30:12 GMT
The endings are flat out garbage. Synthesis makes no sense and is an awful violation of trillions of lives. Control is either going to lead back to the cycle or a perfect tyranny. And destroy was arbitrarily bogged down by the deaths of EDI and the Geth just to try and get players to not choose. Refuse? Bioware’s fuck you to the fans for rejecting their “art”.
And this isn’t even bringing up the fact that each non refuse ending has Shepard interacting with the Crucible/Citadel in ways that make no logical sense. Shoot a tube that explodes? Grab high voltage rods? Vaporise your self in a beam? Sure sounds like the starbrat got Shepard to commit suicide...
Fuck the endings.
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Post by ergates on Jun 7, 2021 15:30:40 GMT
Considering that all these AIs are powered by Organics, that never wanted to be part of that AI, I don't think it's an act of genocide. No more than killing a zombie/husk is. If anything, it is an act of mercy. Offering those troubled souls a final release. People forget that nobody was actually on board to becoming Reaper Goo. Sentient AIs are sentient. We're not talking about the AIs within Reaper shells, we're talking about AIs elsewhere in the galaxy, including the Geth. If this were Star wars, the scenario would go something like: -Blow up the Death Star, but for some reason all the Wookies have to die as well - because... reasons. -Take control of the Death Star, so I can ride it around the galaxy doing Death Stary things, repairing some of the damage done by the emperor, but always with the temptation of ultimate power, and power corrupts. -Force every living being to become half [insert species] / half droid. If forced with a gun to my head I'd ask myself ' which does the least harm', and the answer is obviously option 2 - but none of it makes any real sense. The whole 'all synthetics must die' thing was put in by the writers simply to stop everyone from picking Destroy, else it would be the only logical choice. Therefore it's entirely videogamey in nature, and I'd rather not encounter it.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 7, 2021 15:35:24 GMT
Considering that all these AIs are powered by Organics, that never wanted to be part of that AI, I don't think it's an act of genocide. No more than killing a zombie/husk is. If anything, it is an act of mercy. Offering those troubled souls a final release. People forget that nobody was actually on board to becoming Reaper Goo. Sentient AIs are sentient. We're not talking about the AIs within Reaper shells, we're talking about AIs elsewhere in the galaxy, including the Geth. If this were Star wars, the scenario would go something like: -Blow up the Death Star, but for some reason all the Wookies have to die as well - because... reasons. -Take control of the Death Star, so I can ride it around the galaxy doing Death Stary things, repairing some of the damage done by the emperor, but always with the temptation of ultimate power, and power corrupts. -Force every living being to become half [insert species] / half droid. If forced with a gun to my head I'd ask myself ' which does the least harm', and the answer is obviously option 2 - but none of it makes any real sense. The whole 'all synthetics must die' thing was put in by the writers simply to stop everyone from picking Destroy, else it would be the only logical choice. Therefore it's entirely videogamey in nature, and I'd rather not encounter it. I chuckled at Death Stary things. Have an extra like. 👍
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Post by themikefest on Jun 7, 2021 15:45:33 GMT
My headcanon is Jimmy Olsen turns his watch to send a signal only Shepard can hear. Shepard arrives to see the reapers above Earth. In a blink of an eye, SuperShepard, wearing his/her blue and red underwear with SS on the front, flies at light speed through every reaper destroying them. After that, mild-mannered Jane/John Shepard return to their everyday job as a vendor selling their wares to customers.
It's too bad Bioware didn't go with Hackett's ending.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 7, 2021 15:49:29 GMT
Considering that all these AIs are powered by Organics, that never wanted to be part of that AI, I don't think it's an act of genocide. No more than killing a zombie/husk is. If anything, it is an act of mercy. Offering those troubled souls a final release. People forget that nobody was actually on board to becoming Reaper Goo. Sentient AIs are sentient. We're not talking about the AIs within Reaper shells, we're talking about AIs elsewhere in the galaxy, including the Geth. If this were Star wars, the scenario would go something like: -Blow up the Death Star, but for some reason all the Wookies have to die as well - because... reasons. -Take control of the Death Star, so I can ride it around the galaxy doing Death Stary things, repairing some of the damage done by the emperor, but always with the temptation of ultimate power, and power corrupts. -Force every living being to become half [insert species] / half droid. If forced with a gun to my head I'd ask myself ' which does the least harm', and the answer is obviously option 2 - but none of it makes any real sense. The whole 'all synthetics must die' thing was put in by the writers simply to stop everyone from picking Destroy, else it would be the only logical choice. Therefore it's entirely videogamey in nature, and I'd rather not encounter it. If we're talking about the Geth, there are Geth back ups, we do know that from ME2, that should be free of Reaper code and, as such, should be unaffected by the beam. Which leaves EDI and her backup Quantum box that Cerberus has that may or may not be shielded by the Beam. Or did the Alliance have that one? Either way, EDI might not be 100% were we left her, but she'd be, more or less, where we first meet her in the start of ME2. So none of the problems would be insurmountable, to restore the Status Quo, pre-Reaper war.
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 7, 2021 17:24:00 GMT
Debating these braindead endings is like debating the relative merits of dog vs cat vs horse shit.
I lol'd when the thing warned me the Red wave would wipe out all the robots, since I'd already pretty much done that.
I lol'd even harder when it told me I could electrocute myself and become a Reaper. Didn't I just shoot a crazy guy trying to do that?
I cringed when it told me I could disintegrate myself to make trees into cyborgs or some goofy shit. What even is this?
Then I shot the machine to turn on the machine, because that makes absolutely perfect sense too.
Mac and Casey must've been freebasing their own farts before they wrote this dreck.
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