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Post by scootshoot on Feb 28, 2021 8:21:14 GMT
Naw EA did right thing. Anthem RIP
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Feb 28, 2021 13:28:07 GMT
That was you're first mistake...Never trust EA. They took one of the best gaming companies in Bioware and absolutely destroyed them, to a point that when people hear about Bioware there is nothing but negativity and mistrust.
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Post by Spectr61 on Feb 28, 2021 15:50:17 GMT
That was you're first mistake...Never trust EA. They took one of the best gaming companies in Bioware and absolutely destroyed them, to a point that when people hear about Bioware there is nothing but negativity and mistrust. EA did not mandate the ME3 endings. Biowers Hudson/Walters did. EA leadership did not lead the fractured dev of MEA. Biowers (with Walters again) did. EA leadership did not come up with the idea of a new IP that was going to be the G.O.A.T. (Anthem), and then lead the same fractured dev process for it. Biowers did. EA sux (mandating Frostshite), but Biower, and those leading it, contributed mightily.
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N3
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Post by ALTBOULI on Feb 28, 2021 19:59:19 GMT
That was you're first mistake...Never trust EA. They took one of the best gaming companies in Bioware and absolutely destroyed them, to a point that when people hear about Bioware there is nothing but negativity and mistrust. EA did not mandate the ME3 endings. Biowers Hudson/Walters did. EA leadership did not lead the fractured dev of MEA. Biowers (with Walters again) did. EA leadership did not come up with the idea of a new IP that was going to be the G.O.A.T. (Anthem), and then lead the same fractured dev process for it. Biowers did. EA sux (mandating Frostshite), but Biower, and those leading it, contributed mightily. EA pushed for an RPG centric dev team to become more focused on action, thereby watering down what Bioware were known for. EA forced the bioware teams to use the frostbite engine. Bioware aren't without fault but all the troubles with Bioware came after they were bought up by EA, its a common thing with EA hence why their so hated...
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 1, 2021 10:38:04 GMT
It had potential till it launched the way it did. The games pop tanked hard, and I doubt anthem 2.0 would've changed much with all them players already having such a bad impression of the game. I pre ordered it, played the beta but I didn't player anymore after launch day. It was that bad🤷.
As for it stopping future updates and such, sure it frees up a little resource wise and man power but after a game launches more than half a development team moves on to the next project. It's not like bioware is getting another studio out of anthem shutting down. That said the best news I've heard is anthem failing has shifted EAs thoughts on dragon age 4 having multiple elements (like it was a good idea to have that in the first place 😑).
As for EA being idiots, they absolutely are. However Anthem hasn't given them anything back at all ever since it's been out. They're simply cutting their losses which is the safer thing companies tend to do, and if EA doesn't believe in the game that kind of says it all really. It says they don't trust bioware fixing the game, it says they don't trust what was intended to be a live service money maker will work out. I won't say I'm happy, I'm more neutral really but I do think company wise they're doing the right thing for company gain. Anthem was a dead game at this point anyway
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Mar 1, 2021 16:47:09 GMT
EA did not mandate the ME3 endings. Biowers Hudson/Walters did. EA leadership did not lead the fractured dev of MEA. Biowers (with Walters again) did. EA leadership did not come up with the idea of a new IP that was going to be the G.O.A.T. (Anthem), and then lead the same fractured dev process for it. Biowers did. EA sux (mandating Frostshite), but Biower, and those leading it, contributed mightily. EA pushed for an RPG centric dev team to become more focused on action, thereby watering down what Bioware were known for. EA forced the bioware teams to use the frostbite engine. Bioware aren't without fault but all the troubles with Bioware came after they were bought up by EA, its a common thing with EA hence why their so hated... I think biowares talent lined up pretty well for anthem, they are known for characters and dialogue. A game like this frequently has those. Borderlands is the easy example. Bioware has been doing solid action for a while, with the mass effect series. Basically stick to their formula but drop some RPG mechanics and have less choices in dialogue, add in a gameplay/loot loop. They should have been able to pull that off. But its obvious from the leaks their leadership wasted the vast majority of the dev time and tried to crap out something good in the last 18 months, same as they did with MEA and same as they are on track to doing with DA4.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 1, 2021 19:15:08 GMT
EA pushed for an RPG centric dev team to become more focused on action, thereby watering down what Bioware were known for. EA forced the bioware teams to use the frostbite engine. Bioware aren't without fault but all the troubles with Bioware came after they were bought up by EA, its a common thing with EA hence why their so hated... I think biowares talent lined up pretty well for anthem, they are known for characters and dialogue. A game like this frequently has those. Borderlands is the easy example. Bioware has been doing solid action for a while, with the mass effect series. Basically stick to their formula but drop some RPG mechanics and have less choices in dialogue, add in a gameplay/loot loop. They should have been able to pull that off. But its obvious from the leaks their leadership wasted the vast majority of the dev time and tried to crap out something good in the last 18 months, same as they did with MEA and same as they are on track to doing with DA4. The interesting thing is I don't see a lot of comparisons that I think need to be made between The Old Republic and Anthem. Both games were BioWare was trying to put their story approach into a genre they hadn't before. I think the problem with Anthem is that it was just boring to play so they couldn't even hook people doing the story arc because it had problems all its own. The commonality between the two games was that both had a broken end-game at launch, but I think the Old Republic had enough other systems in place that it was still a fun game until you got to max level. Anthem just wasn't fun, right now I am taking a friend through the game because they want to see how much of a train wreck the game is and aside from one mission it wasn't that bad just not laid out well, but once you finish that its just a boring slog like many of the other looter-shooters for its the same reason why I left Destiny because I got bored with the content that was offered. I do think Anthem had a bunch of interesting ideas, but the execution wasn't well done and I put most of the blame on BioWare themselves for this is what they wanted to do after Mass Effect 3 because they wanted to do something new. My experiences with the game makes it seem that the grand vision and guiding hand of management let down the developers on this one. Which is one of the reasons why I think having someone new leading the helm at BioWare is a good thing for if they promoted anyone internally I am concerned that it would be the same problem again just with a new face on the "oopies" button.
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Mar 1, 2021 23:57:43 GMT
EA pushed for an RPG centric dev team to become more focused on action, thereby watering down what Bioware were known for. EA forced the bioware teams to use the frostbite engine. Bioware aren't without fault but all the troubles with Bioware came after they were bought up by EA, its a common thing with EA hence why their so hated... I think biowares talent lined up pretty well for anthem, they are known for characters and dialogue. A game like this frequently has those. Borderlands is the easy example. Bioware has been doing solid action for a while, with the mass effect series. Basically stick to their formula but drop some RPG mechanics and have less choices in dialogue, add in a gameplay/loot loop. They should have been able to pull that off. But its obvious from the leaks their leadership wasted the vast majority of the dev time and tried to crap out something good in the last 18 months, same as they did with MEA and same as they are on track to doing with DA4. Mass Effect 1 (arguably the best in the series) was released in 2007, it followed a number of RPG focused games made by bioware including Kotor, Jade Empire, never winter and the baldurs gate series. EA acquired them in 2008 and it was fairly immediate that the rpg elements were being watered down for more action (dragon age origins was already in production prior to EA buying them so I believe it was the last true bioware game (very little involvement from EA). Then came Mass Effect 2 and Dragon age 2 which were much more action centric (dragon age in particular became a relatively tedious hack and slash game). Thankfully the main heads at Bioware were still around and they managed to salvage Mass Effect 2 and 3 (though 3 in partiuclar had pretty bad reviews out the gate). Unfortunately the Bioware founders (greg and Ray) bothered retired shortly after ME3, its fairly clear they didn't like the direction EA were taking. Since then EA have been heavily involved in the management of bioware and have brought in a lot if their own people in key positions. What we have seen now is a company without true leadership, that left in 2012...We haven't seen Biowaee make a good game since... So yes modern Bioware are at fault but how much of the real bioware even remains? How many of the original devs are still there? I stand by my claim that EA are mostly at fault here, they purchased a great company and gutted out what made bioware special
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 2, 2021 1:17:32 GMT
I think biowares talent lined up pretty well for anthem, they are known for characters and dialogue. A game like this frequently has those. Borderlands is the easy example. Bioware has been doing solid action for a while, with the mass effect series. Basically stick to their formula but drop some RPG mechanics and have less choices in dialogue, add in a gameplay/loot loop. They should have been able to pull that off. But its obvious from the leaks their leadership wasted the vast majority of the dev time and tried to crap out something good in the last 18 months, same as they did with MEA and same as they are on track to doing with DA4. Mass Effect 1 (arguably the best in the series) was released in 2007, it followed a number of RPG focused games made by bioware including Kotor, Jade Empire, never winter and the baldurs gate series. EA acquired them in 2008 and it was fairly immediate that the rpg elements were being watered down for more action (dragon age origins was already in production prior to EA buying them so I believe it was the last true bioware game (very little involvement from EA). Then came Mass Effect 2 and Dragon age 2 which were much more action centric (dragon age in particular became a relatively tedious hack and slash game). Thankfully the main heads at Bioware were still around and they managed to salvage Mass Effect 2 and 3 (though 3 in partiuclar had pretty bad reviews out the gate). Unfortunately the Bioware founders (greg and Ray) bothered retired shortly after ME3, its fairly clear they didn't like the direction EA were taking. Since then EA have been heavily involved in the management of bioware and have brought in a lot if their own people in key positions. What we have seen now is a company without true leadership, that left in 2012...We haven't seen Biowaee make a good game since... So yes modern Bioware are at fault but how much of the real bioware even remains? How many of the original devs are still there? I stand by my claim that EA are mostly at fault here, they purchased a great company and gutted out what made bioware special Do you have any real sources that are true with all those claims about why the Doctor's left, for frankly I could just as easily pull a rabbit and say the online backlash with every game they made and the threats from people could have pushed them to the point of leaving. The truth is like anything in life many different reasons. The one thing I have seen is they were burnt out from all angles. Not just managing a company of hundreds in a major billion dollar publishers, but in some ways the constant negativity around those launches as well. Even they admit it probably doesn't represent the majority, but it does wear you down. Article with Greg ZeschukI am certain if BioWare made a game like Mass Effect 1 again people would have the exact same issues they find in any of the other BioWare games out there now. Just look at Dragon Age: Inquisition. People were upset that the main campaign can be beaten in 20 hours, but how would people react if you could beat the main campaign in Mass Effect 1 in five or so. Not to mention the clunkiness of the game, the stripped RPG components with a focus on shooting things. Having one class be super powerful compared to all the others. Even the controls of the Mako. I think a lot of people are looking for something to say and "old BioWare is dead" might sound catchy, but "old BioWare" is a lot like the current iteration of BioWare it just seems people don't see the similarities. I think Jade Empire is one of the games that proves that is really the case for the condition it launched it, it was a half done game that had an interesting world, but there were a lot of flaws in it and that is why it flopped commercially. Even the rush at the end of development to shove something out the door is the same to before EA, its just that they are shoving more into the games now then before so it becomes more noticeable. I am not really sure what people want from BioWare. First they are all pissed off that Casey Hudson has a job after Mass Effect 3 and were writing letters to try and get him fired. So he leaves a second time and now its all doom and gloom for the company where I think leadership is why the problems are where they are. If anything I think having an outsider have more control might fix the course the company has been going down with "old BioWare" employees at leadership roles.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 2, 2021 1:50:08 GMT
I am not really sure what people want from BioWare. First they are all pissed off that Casey Hudson has a job after Mass Effect 3 and were writing letters to try and get him fired. So he leaves a second time and now its all doom and gloom for the company where I think leadership is why the problems are where they are. If anything I think having an outsider have more control might fix the course the company has been going down with "old BioWare" employees at leadership roles. I think that Bioware offered a distinction between action and tactical with ME and DA. Like ME was going to be the action franchise and DA was going to be the tactical one. Which offers a great compromise. One is made to bring in new fans and grow the brand name and the other is to satisfy the veteran fans, while also growing the good will of the established fanbase. Which all went to shit with DA2 and DA:I didn't fix that, with a severely "streamlined" experience, to accommodate for the needs of the MP on consoles, while also trying to be an action game and a tactical game. Which is an impossible compromise. I remember when ME2 came out and it just blew everyone away. I understood the departure from the more RPG mechanics of ME1 for the more pure shooter mechanics of ME2, I understood the compromise and I actually had fun with it. I didn't like the changes of ME3, because the binary skill choices were just ... not really choices and the loadout/cooldown system was just not making much sense and the mod system was even worse. For me. But above all, a Bioware game lives and dies by its writing. A lot will be forgiven for the good writing and a lot will be criticized for the bad writing. And the more they try to "compromise" for reason A or reason B, the more the writing is going to suffer. And that is where it all falls apart. Which is why I say that, when Bioware has not delivered a single good line of dialogue in 3 games, it's not strictly the code monkeys' fault. You'll need some writers that can write better than a dialogue line straight from Joss Whedon's cutting room floor, or feels like a twitter post. The vast majority of people, speak like neither of these things.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 2, 2021 2:39:19 GMT
I am not really sure what people want from BioWare. First they are all pissed off that Casey Hudson has a job after Mass Effect 3 and were writing letters to try and get him fired. So he leaves a second time and now its all doom and gloom for the company where I think leadership is why the problems are where they are. If anything I think having an outsider have more control might fix the course the company has been going down with "old BioWare" employees at leadership roles. I think that Bioware offered a distinction between action and tactical with ME and DA. Like ME was going to be the action franchise and DA was going to be the tactical one. Which offers a great compromise. One is made to bring in new fans and grow the brand name and the other is to satisfy the veteran fans, while also growing the good will of the established fanbase. Which all went to shit with DA2 and DA:I didn't fix that, with a severely "streamlined" experience, to accommodate for the needs of the MP on consoles, while also trying to be an action game and a tactical game. Which is an impossible compromise. I remember when ME2 came out and it just blew everyone away. I understood the departure from the more RPG mechanics of ME1 for the more pure shooter mechanics of ME2, I understood the compromise and I actually had fun with it. I didn't like the changes of ME3, because the binary skill choices were just ... not really choices and the loadout/cooldown system was just not making much sense and the mod system was even worse. For me. But above all, a Bioware game lives and dies by its writing. A lot will be forgiven for the good writing and a lot will be criticized for the bad writing. And the more they try to "compromise" for reason A or reason B, the more the writing is going to suffer. And that is where it all falls apart. Which is why I say that, when Bioware has not delivered a single good line of dialogue in 3 games, it's not strictly the code monkeys' fault. You'll need some writers that can write better than a dialogue line straight from Joss Whedon's cutting room floor, or feels like a twitter post. The vast majority of people, speak like neither of these things. I guess its all about personal perception for I don't think the individual lines of dialogue overall have changed that much since BioWare started to use voice acting. There are always going to be more cringe worthy moments in games with more lines of dialogue. The majority of dialogue in Andromeda I think is just the same as the earlier Mass Effect games and even Anthem as fractured as it is to me is a problem more with cutting and pasting content to fit then the dialogue itself. The biggest problem I have with the writing is it feels diluted and I think that is a symptom of the game's direction instead of its writing. Having a 20ish hour game being chopped up into an open world game is going to hurt the flow of the story or even trying to make a game that people demand last for 100+ hours. People were upset that the critical campaign of Dragon Age was "only" 20 hours, but there is a limit to what a human being can do. The problems I see with the games is that everyone from the people writing the dialogue or the people writing the mechanical parts of the game is that the last minute scrambles that BioWare has been doing for decades caused portions of the games to be altered and spliced. Such as the reports of taking quests out of the game with only a few weeks before certification and trying to make something work.
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N3
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Post by ALTBOULI on Mar 2, 2021 11:34:09 GMT
Mass Effect 1 (arguably the best in the series) was released in 2007, it followed a number of RPG focused games made by bioware including Kotor, Jade Empire, never winter and the baldurs gate series. EA acquired them in 2008 and it was fairly immediate that the rpg elements were being watered down for more action (dragon age origins was already in production prior to EA buying them so I believe it was the last true bioware game (very little involvement from EA). Then came Mass Effect 2 and Dragon age 2 which were much more action centric (dragon age in particular became a relatively tedious hack and slash game). Thankfully the main heads at Bioware were still around and they managed to salvage Mass Effect 2 and 3 (though 3 in partiuclar had pretty bad reviews out the gate). Unfortunately the Bioware founders (greg and Ray) bothered retired shortly after ME3, its fairly clear they didn't like the direction EA were taking. Since then EA have been heavily involved in the management of bioware and have brought in a lot if their own people in key positions. What we have seen now is a company without true leadership, that left in 2012...We haven't seen Biowaee make a good game since... So yes modern Bioware are at fault but how much of the real bioware even remains? How many of the original devs are still there? I stand by my claim that EA are mostly at fault here, they purchased a great company and gutted out what made bioware special Do you have any real sources that are true with all those claims about why the Doctor's left, for frankly I could just as easily pull a rabbit and say the online backlash with every game they made and the threats from people could have pushed them to the point of leaving. The truth is like anything in life many different reasons. The one thing I have seen is they were burnt out from all angles. Not just managing a company of hundreds in a major billion dollar publishers, but in some ways the constant negativity around those launches as well. Even they admit it probably doesn't represent the majority, but it does wear you down. Article with Greg ZeschukI am certain if BioWare made a game like Mass Effect 1 again people would have the exact same issues they find in any of the other BioWare games out there now. Just look at Dragon Age: Inquisition. People were upset that the main campaign can be beaten in 20 hours, but how would people react if you could beat the main campaign in Mass Effect 1 in five or so. Not to mention the clunkiness of the game, the stripped RPG components with a focus on shooting things. Having one class be super powerful compared to all the others. Even the controls of the Mako. I think a lot of people are looking for something to say and "old BioWare is dead" might sound catchy, but "old BioWare" is a lot like the current iteration of BioWare it just seems people don't see the similarities. I think Jade Empire is one of the games that proves that is really the case for the condition it launched it, it was a half done game that had an interesting world, but there were a lot of flaws in it and that is why it flopped commercially. Even the rush at the end of development to shove something out the door is the same to before EA, its just that they are shoving more into the games now then before so it becomes more noticeable. I am not really sure what people want from BioWare. First they are all pissed off that Casey Hudson has a job after Mass Effect 3 and were writing letters to try and get him fired. So he leaves a second time and now its all doom and gloom for the company where I think leadership is why the problems are where they are. If anything I think having an outsider have more control might fix the course the company has been going down with "old BioWare" employees at leadership roles. Are you seriously trying to claim this current version of Bioware is the same as what people refer to as old bioware and EA havent completely destroyed the company? You asked for real evidence, why don't you do the same and provide evidence...
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
5,994
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 2, 2021 14:36:27 GMT
Do you have any real sources that are true with all those claims about why the Doctor's left, for frankly I could just as easily pull a rabbit and say the online backlash with every game they made and the threats from people could have pushed them to the point of leaving. The truth is like anything in life many different reasons. The one thing I have seen is they were burnt out from all angles. Not just managing a company of hundreds in a major billion dollar publishers, but in some ways the constant negativity around those launches as well. Even they admit it probably doesn't represent the majority, but it does wear you down. Article with Greg ZeschukI am certain if BioWare made a game like Mass Effect 1 again people would have the exact same issues they find in any of the other BioWare games out there now. Just look at Dragon Age: Inquisition. People were upset that the main campaign can be beaten in 20 hours, but how would people react if you could beat the main campaign in Mass Effect 1 in five or so. Not to mention the clunkiness of the game, the stripped RPG components with a focus on shooting things. Having one class be super powerful compared to all the others. Even the controls of the Mako. I think a lot of people are looking for something to say and "old BioWare is dead" might sound catchy, but "old BioWare" is a lot like the current iteration of BioWare it just seems people don't see the similarities. I think Jade Empire is one of the games that proves that is really the case for the condition it launched it, it was a half done game that had an interesting world, but there were a lot of flaws in it and that is why it flopped commercially. Even the rush at the end of development to shove something out the door is the same to before EA, its just that they are shoving more into the games now then before so it becomes more noticeable. I am not really sure what people want from BioWare. First they are all pissed off that Casey Hudson has a job after Mass Effect 3 and were writing letters to try and get him fired. So he leaves a second time and now its all doom and gloom for the company where I think leadership is why the problems are where they are. If anything I think having an outsider have more control might fix the course the company has been going down with "old BioWare" employees at leadership roles. Are you seriously trying to claim this current version of Bioware is the same as what people refer to as old bioware and EA havent completely destroyed the company? You asked for real evidence, why don't you do the same and provide evidence... I did provide evidence with that article I linked. It counters your claim that the Doctors and their feelings towards EA and how EA has treated BioWare as a studio while coming directly from Dr. Greg compared to articles where there are a lot of editorialized comments. BioWare didn't has a spotless record before EA came into the picture because of the sales numbers of Jade Empire which only sold 385,000 copies in North America in its first year (Xbox Exclusive). Link. If you look at SteamSpy for Jade Empire it indicates 200,000 to 500,000 copies sold, but only an average playtime of 22 min. Which pales in comparison to Mass Effect: Andromeda with 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 sales with an average playtime of 1 hour 50 min which according to the internet is a really bad game. Mass Effect: Andromeda and Jade Empire. You could also include the game that nobody talks about such as the Sonic Chronicles game which was a horrible game. So there is plenty of evidence that shows BioWare had problem games before EA came or the new leadership came into the picture. Even under the old leadership just after EA came into the picture there were plenty of problems at BioWare with Dragon Age 2 and there was criticism with the direction of Mass Effect 2. Who is to blame for the first two fully developed games under EA when the leadership stayed the same and one of the highest level people at BioWare state that EA didn't impose their will on them? As far as we can see the company isn't destroyed, its the games have been causing a controversy because people don't like them. Is the problem with what people are willing to accept from BioWare now and were willing to put up with problematic games and releases before? Would have BioWare stayed the same if EA didn't enter the picture and again just looking at the catalogue of games that doesn't seem to be the case and things would have changed. BioWare has always altered or removed things, they went to voiced protagonists with Mass Effect 1, they dropped Star Wars and DnD, they dropped multiplayer for Mass Effect 1, they went to the dialogue wheel, and there are others they chased trends before EA and continue to do so now. Here is a second hand argument about the development process with Anthem not being that much different in design then any prior BioWare game, but it was just more of everything. Its all second hand commentary AskAGameDev BioWare crunchEdit #2. Article prior to that one
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Mar 2, 2021 16:00:29 GMT
Are you seriously trying to claim this current version of Bioware is the same as what people refer to as old bioware and EA havent completely destroyed the company? You asked for real evidence, why don't you do the same and provide evidence... I did provide evidence with that article I linked. It counters your claim that the Doctors and their feelings towards EA and how EA has treated BioWare as a studio while coming directly from Dr. Greg compared to articles where there are a lot of editorialized comments. BioWare didn't has a spotless record before EA came into the picture because of the sales numbers of Jade Empire which only sold 385,000 copies in North America in its first year (Xbox Exclusive). Link. If you look at SteamSpy for Jade Empire it indicates 200,000 to 500,000 copies sold, but only an average playtime of 22 min. Which pales in comparison to Mass Effect: Andromeda with 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 sales with an average playtime of 1 hour 50 min which according to the internet is a really bad game. Mass Effect: Andromeda and Jade Empire. You could also include the game that nobody talks about such as the Sonic Chronicles game which was a horrible game. So there is plenty of evidence that shows BioWare had problem games before EA came or the new leadership came into the picture. Even under the old leadership just after EA came into the picture there were plenty of problems at BioWare with Dragon Age 2 and there was criticism with the direction of Mass Effect 2. Who is to blame for the first two fully developed games under EA when the leadership stayed the same and one of the highest level people at BioWare state that EA didn't impose their will on them? As far as we can see the company isn't destroyed, its the games have been causing a controversy because people don't like them. Is the problem with what people are willing to accept from BioWare now and were willing to put up with problematic games and releases before? Would have BioWare stayed the same if EA didn't enter the picture and again just looking at the catalogue of games that doesn't seem to be the case and things would have changed. BioWare has always altered or removed things, they went to voiced protagonists with Mass Effect 1, they dropped Star Wars and DnD, they dropped multiplayer for Mass Effect 1, they went to the dialogue wheel, and there are others they chased trends before EA and continue to do so now. Here is a second hand argument about the development process with Anthem not being that much different in design then any prior BioWare game, but it was just more of everything. Its all second hand commentary AskAGameDev BioWare crunchEdit #2. Article prior to that one "If you look at SteamSpy for Jade Empire it indicates 200,000 to 500,000 copies sold, but only an average playtime of 22 min. Which pales in comparison to Mass Effect: Andromeda with 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 sales with an average playtime of 1 hour 50 min" Lol is this supposed to some how prove Andromeda was a better game than Jade Empire? Was Andromeda an original IP like Jade Empire was? No it was a sequel to a trilogy of games that were among Biowares most successful, those stats are misleading to say the least. Jade empire was published as an Xbox exclusive and later was ported to other platforms, Bioware weren't exactly known on the console market also the game was released on the original xbox not the 360 (which was released shortly after and was released at a less than optimal time).
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Post by SirSourpuss on Mar 2, 2021 18:02:06 GMT
"If you look at SteamSpy for Jade Empire it indicates 200,000 to 500,000 copies sold, but only an average playtime of 22 min. Which pales in comparison to Mass Effect: Andromeda with 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 sales with an average playtime of 1 hour 50 min" Lol is this supposed to some how prove Andromeda was a better game than Jade Empire? Was Andromeda an original IP like Jade Empire was? No it was a sequel to a trilogy of games that were among Biowares most successful, those stats are misleading to say the least. Jade empire was published as an Xbox exclusive and later was ported to other platforms, Bioware weren't exactly known on the console market also the game was released on the original xbox not the 360 (which was released shortly after and was released at a less than optimal time). That's a good point. You always need to keep in mind the market at the time. The original XBOX went up against the PS2 and the XBOX was ... I don't want to say demolished, but pretty much. Not to mention the medium was not nearly close to how large it is today. Going exclusive to the XBOX was probably the worst move Jade Empire had going for it. Even the jump to PC came way too late, to actually do much. I do actually own JE on PC.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 3, 2021 7:03:01 GMT
I did provide evidence with that article I linked. It counters your claim that the Doctors and their feelings towards EA and how EA has treated BioWare as a studio while coming directly from Dr. Greg compared to articles where there are a lot of editorialized comments. BioWare didn't has a spotless record before EA came into the picture because of the sales numbers of Jade Empire which only sold 385,000 copies in North America in its first year (Xbox Exclusive). Link. If you look at SteamSpy for Jade Empire it indicates 200,000 to 500,000 copies sold, but only an average playtime of 22 min. Which pales in comparison to Mass Effect: Andromeda with 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 sales with an average playtime of 1 hour 50 min which according to the internet is a really bad game. Mass Effect: Andromeda and Jade Empire. You could also include the game that nobody talks about such as the Sonic Chronicles game which was a horrible game. So there is plenty of evidence that shows BioWare had problem games before EA came or the new leadership came into the picture. Even under the old leadership just after EA came into the picture there were plenty of problems at BioWare with Dragon Age 2 and there was criticism with the direction of Mass Effect 2. Who is to blame for the first two fully developed games under EA when the leadership stayed the same and one of the highest level people at BioWare state that EA didn't impose their will on them? As far as we can see the company isn't destroyed, its the games have been causing a controversy because people don't like them. Is the problem with what people are willing to accept from BioWare now and were willing to put up with problematic games and releases before? Would have BioWare stayed the same if EA didn't enter the picture and again just looking at the catalogue of games that doesn't seem to be the case and things would have changed. BioWare has always altered or removed things, they went to voiced protagonists with Mass Effect 1, they dropped Star Wars and DnD, they dropped multiplayer for Mass Effect 1, they went to the dialogue wheel, and there are others they chased trends before EA and continue to do so now. Here is a second hand argument about the development process with Anthem not being that much different in design then any prior BioWare game, but it was just more of everything. Its all second hand commentary AskAGameDev BioWare crunchEdit #2. Article prior to that one"If you look at SteamSpy for Jade Empire it indicates 200,000 to 500,000 copies sold, but only an average playtime of 22 min. Which pales in comparison to Mass Effect: Andromeda with 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 sales with an average playtime of 1 hour 50 min" Lol is this supposed to some how prove Andromeda was a better game than Jade Empire? Was Andromeda an original IP like Jade Empire was? No it was a sequel to a trilogy of games that were among Biowares most successful, those stats are misleading to say the least. Jade empire was published as an Xbox exclusive and later was ported to other platforms, Bioware weren't exactly known on the console market also the game was released on the original xbox not the 360 (which was released shortly after and was released at a less than optimal time). I think it does have some relevance for Jade Empire didn't come to the PC until about a year after launch and Mass Effect: Andromeda didn't move to Steam until a year and half after its initial launch and it was available on PC on Origin before that. There won't be a perfect matchup, because its impossible to have a perfect side by side comparison from BioWare pre-EA and after EA because the market is always changing. My point was that not that they were a perfect match or sales numbers, but how long people who bought the game played it. People played Andromeda for a hour more then Jade Empire (on average) before stopping.
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Post by Spectr61 on Mar 3, 2021 8:19:19 GMT
I am not really sure what people want from BioWare. First they are all pissed off that Casey Hudson has a job after Mass Effect 3 and were writing letters to try and get him fired. So he leaves a second time and now its all doom and gloom for the company where I think leadership is why the problems are where they are. If anything I think having an outsider have more control might fix the course the company has been going down with "old BioWare" employees at leadership roles. I think that Bioware offered a distinction between action and tactical with ME and DA. Like ME was going to be the action franchise and DA was going to be the tactical one. Which offers a great compromise. One is made to bring in new fans and grow the brand name and the other is to satisfy the veteran fans, while also growing the good will of the established fanbase. Which all went to shit with DA2 and DA:I didn't fix that, with a severely "streamlined" experience, to accommodate for the needs of the MP on consoles, while also trying to be an action game and a tactical game. Which is an impossible compromise. I remember when ME2 came out and it just blew everyone away. I understood the departure from the more RPG mechanics of ME1 for the more pure shooter mechanics of ME2, I understood the compromise and I actually had fun with it. I didn't like the changes of ME3, because the binary skill choices were just ... not really choices and the loadout/cooldown system was just not making much sense and the mod system was even worse. For me. But above all, a Bioware game lives and dies by its writing. A lot will be forgiven for the good writing and a lot will be criticized for the bad writing. And the more they try to "compromise" for reason A or reason B, the more the writing is going to suffer. And that is where it all falls apart. Which is why I say that, when Bioware has not delivered a single good line of dialogue in 3 games, it's not strictly the code monkeys' fault. You'll need some writers that can write better than a dialogue line straight from Joss Whedon's cutting room floor, or feels like a twitter post. The vast majority of people, speak like neither of these things. This. Looks directly at Mac Walters.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Mar 3, 2021 10:27:56 GMT
"If you look at SteamSpy for Jade Empire it indicates 200,000 to 500,000 copies sold, but only an average playtime of 22 min. Which pales in comparison to Mass Effect: Andromeda with 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 sales with an average playtime of 1 hour 50 min" Lol is this supposed to some how prove Andromeda was a better game than Jade Empire? Was Andromeda an original IP like Jade Empire was? No it was a sequel to a trilogy of games that were among Biowares most successful, those stats are misleading to say the least. Jade empire was published as an Xbox exclusive and later was ported to other platforms, Bioware weren't exactly known on the console market also the game was released on the original xbox not the 360 (which was released shortly after and was released at a less than optimal time). I think it does have some relevance for Jade Empire didn't come to the PC until about a year after launch and Mass Effect: Andromeda didn't move to Steam until a year and half after its initial launch and it was available on PC on Origin before that. There won't be a perfect matchup, because its impossible to have a perfect side by side comparison from BioWare pre-EA and after EA because the market is always changing. My point was that not that they were a perfect match or sales numbers, but how long people who bought the game played it. People played Andromeda for a hour more then Jade Empire (on average) before stopping. I dont know how else to explain this to you but again you're comparing apples to oranges here, Andromeda isnt a new IP, its a sequel to a very successful trilogy vs Jade Empire which was a new IP. Jade Empire was released as an exclusive for on a dying console that was replaced shortly after and additionally wasnt released at the best time given games like Doom 3, Unreal Championship 2 and Forza Motorsports were released at similar times it didnt come to PC for another 2 years.... Andromeda released on Xbox One, PS4 and PC all at the same time, new consoles were still a long way away and while there was competition of games during that period most of the competition came from Nintendo exclusives. I wasnt going to address this because I thought it was fairly obvious, but seeing as you keep referring to it...your comparing the playtime of Jade Empire on steam to Andromeda on steam and suggesting that this indicates average hours spent, let me remind you that Jade Empire was an xbox exclusive, it didnt come to PC until 2 years later, its biggest platform was xbox, which steamspy wont tell you the average play time, in fact it wont tell you the average time of jade empire on pc's other game launchers so by no means an accurate indicator.
I will finish by saying this, people who have played Jade Empire have requested a sequel for quite some time now, the game was considered a success and received positive reviews you can even see it on these forums, Greg and Ray even hinted about a sequel before they left...Nobody wants a direct sequel to Andromeda, its had bad reviews overall and has become a meme game given the awful bugs and bizarre facial animations, if it was a successful game as you seem to claim it would have been supported for longer, instead the game didnt get a single campaign DLC, and the multiplayer was supported far less than ME3 was, the fact that EA came out and said it performed far less than expected and abandoned the game for Anthem (another flop) should tell you it wasnt a good game and wasnt well received…
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saandrig
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Mar 4, 2021 9:07:55 GMT
people who have played Jade Empire have requested a sequel for quite some time now, the game was considered a success and received positive reviews you can even see it on these forums, Greg and Ray even hinted about a sequel before they left...Nobody wants a direct sequel to Andromeda [/span][/quote] I found Jade Empire bland and boring even when it released and it was a big step backwards compared to something like KOTOR. I don't care about a sequel. MEA is a flawed game, but I'd like to see a sequel. Am I a "nobody"? 😜
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Mar 4, 2021 9:24:36 GMT
people who have played Jade Empire have requested a sequel for quite some time now, the game was considered a success and received positive reviews you can even see it on these forums, Greg and Ray even hinted about a sequel before they left...Nobody wants a direct sequel to Andromeda [/span][/quote] I found Jade Empire bland and boring even when it released and it was a big step backwards compared to something like KOTOR. I don't care about a sequel. MEA is a flawed game, but I'd like to see a sequel. Am I a "nobody"? 😜[/quote] Yes
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Post by saandrig on Mar 4, 2021 11:42:00 GMT
[/span][/quote] I found Jade Empire bland and boring even when it released and it was a big step backwards compared to something like KOTOR. I don't care about a sequel. MEA is a flawed game, but I'd like to see a sequel. Am I a "nobody"? 😜[/quote] Yes[/quote] Andromeda has a better rating and reception on Steam than JE. Just saying 😉
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by ALTBOULI on Mar 4, 2021 12:15:01 GMT
[/span][/quote] I found Jade Empire bland and boring even when it released and it was a big step backwards compared to something like KOTOR. I don't care about a sequel. MEA is a flawed game, but I'd like to see a sequel. Am I a "nobody"? 😜[/quote] Yes[/quote] Andromeda has a better rating and reception on Steam than JE. Just saying 😉[/quote] And the metacritic value posted on steam is higher for jade empire than Andromeda. Just saying
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Mar 4, 2021 12:33:18 GMT
[/span][/quote] I found Jade Empire bland and boring even when it released and it was a big step backwards compared to something like KOTOR. I don't care about a sequel. MEA is a flawed game, but I'd like to see a sequel. Am I a "nobody"? 😜[/quote] Yes[/quote] Andromeda has a better rating and reception on Steam than JE. Just saying 😉[/quote] And the metacritic value posted on steam is higher for jade empire than Andromeda. Just saying[/quote] Can you give a Metacritic score without buying the game? Can you do the same on the Steam reviews? Which of those are actually from the players/customers?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
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Post by ALTBOULI on Mar 4, 2021 12:44:28 GMT
[/span][/quote] I found Jade Empire bland and boring even when it released and it was a big step backwards compared to something like KOTOR. I don't care about a sequel. MEA is a flawed game, but I'd like to see a sequel. Am I a "nobody"? 😜[/quote] Yes[/quote] Andromeda has a better rating and reception on Steam than JE. Just saying 😉[/quote] And the metacritic value posted on steam is higher for jade empire than Andromeda. Just saying[/quote] Can you give a Metacritic score without buying the game? Can you do the same on the Steam reviews? Which of those are actually from the players/customers?[/quote] Yeah you didn't actually read any of the reviews on steam, if you had you would see a lot of the negative reviews are because people can't get the game to workon steam... "I first had this game on the original Xbox and played it to absolute death. Saw it was on sale on here so thought I may as well pick it back up on here since I no longer have my Xbox copy. I recommend this game for the story, the characters, the OST... But I don't fully recommend this port of Jade Empire for several of reasons; - the launcher that ships with Steam is broken, you have to fiddle with files, copy things over and make a shortcut of the game's .exe to bypass the broken launcher/config menu. Bit of a faff, but at least the game is playable when you've done that. -Many graphical and audio issues. Sound sometimes bugs out when I'm playing, and similarly with visuals I've noticed that the game is jerky in areas. It doesn't affect gameplay, but the jittering screen is a little bit irritating to have to deal with. I understand that this is an old game and old games tend to run less than perfect, but I've played games from the mid-90s on PC that run better than this port and it's a real shame as this game is incredible to play. I absolutely still would say to anyone to get this game when it's on sale, but to buy it at full price considering some people haven't been able to get it to run due to the bugged launcher and config menu is a reach." "Game would not launch for me. Do not recommend until bugs are solved." "DO NOT BUY THIS GAME While the game itself is really enjoyable, you may find that you can never get it to work on your PC. I, and countless others who have purchased it through steam, cannot even run the game because of the multitude of errors," Should I continue? There are a lot more reviews like this praising the game but complaining about the port
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 4, 2021 14:01:18 GMT
people who have played Jade Empire have requested a sequel for quite some time now, the game was considered a success and received positive reviews you can even see it on these forums, Greg and Ray even hinted about a sequel before they left...Nobody wants a direct sequel to Andromeda [/span][/quote] I found Jade Empire bland and boring even when it released and it was a big step backwards compared to something like KOTOR. I don't care about a sequel. MEA is a flawed game, but I'd like to see a sequel. Am I a "nobody"? 😜[/quote] I can' tcomment on Jade Empier as I never played it but I agree I wantto see MEA get a sequel sure MEA wasn't perfect but I've experienced worse games that ended up getting sequels over the years so I do certainly hope MEA gets another chance
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