linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 3, 2021 22:05:04 GMT
Eh, I prefer my religious allegory of the end of days and ascension. It's at least more poetic.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 3, 2021 22:30:16 GMT
Meanwhile I guessed all three endings after playing ME1 before ME2 was out. Did you have any detail about what the three would be like? If so, how different was your version vs what is currently in ME3?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 3, 2021 22:41:25 GMT
Meanwhile I guessed all three endings after playing ME1 before ME2 was out. Did you have any detail about what the three would be like? If so, how different was your version vs what is currently in ME3? Destroy is obvious, since it was clear we’d need some sort of super weapon to defeat them all considering how hard it was to kill one. Control was a bit more vague, but I imagined there being some way to reprogram them. Synthesis was as I said I saw proving the Reapers wrong which would cause them to stop, and saw Saren as correct about merging organic and synthetic but not the way he did it. There was more detail, but that was over a decade ago on the old forums so I forgot some of it.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 3, 2021 22:56:31 GMT
Non of that lore got into the game. Maybe not the part about the Reapers saving us, but there are hints at dark energy fuckery in the works in ME2, like Tali's mission to Haestrom, and (I think?) the ending dialogue for Parasini's sidequest on Illium. So there is lore that made it into the games. Anyone saying otherwise is willfully deluding themselves, haven't played the game at all, or have forgotten about these aspects. 6 lines of dialogue and an e-mail out of an entire 20 hour game is not a plot. Otherwise finding the heating coils for that Salarian on the Citadel also counts as a plot point.
Problem is BioWare dropped Dark Energy plot in ME3, they essentially eradicated any reference to it. Why? Because Walters and Hudson wanted to surprise us instead, I guess. God forbid if someone managed to guess an ending in advance, by looking at clues. Can't have that!
6 lines of dialogue and an e-mail across an entire game is not a plot. There is literally 0 actual references to it. It plays 0 part of the over all story. It was literally a year AFTER I beat the trilogy that I even learned that there was suppose to be a plot there. ME2 it literally never expands beyond a reason for Tali to be on Halestrom.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 3, 2021 23:19:32 GMT
I may look at the rest later but I did get to the Helper comments and actually that does make me feel a little better about the thing. No joke. My big complaint of Synthesis was that it felt like a violation and that they were aware of it and that was them trying to make it morally comrpomised so it wouldn't be a perfect solution...intentionally...really works. Here's an expansion of what Hepler actually thought and his idea for an ending. Far superior. www.thegamer.com/mass-effect-3-ending-writer-idea/ I think it is pretty atrocious. Wedded to the 2nd death of shep. Probably more wedded to the mass slaughter and devastation too, just with an undercurrent of science behind it rather than color magic the only thing I agree upon is the notion of scientists telling you beforehand purpose of device, though i’d Have gone a step further and have player choose the builds of it.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Mar 3, 2021 23:49:25 GMT
Can't wait to relive this discourse again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2021 0:26:35 GMT
Indoctrination Theory, if intended and executed well, would be rather interesting. The endings we got, if more integrated into the story, could work. Neither these things happened. Alas...
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Post by Phantom on Mar 4, 2021 1:31:26 GMT
Indoctrination Theory, if intended and executed well, would be rather interesting. The endings we got, if more integrated into the story, could work. Neither these things happened. Alas... If Indoctrination Theory became canon, whom shall replace Shepard to defeat the Reaper? A proper troll answer is Cerberus. Cerberus is a proper troll answer to any Mass Effect related questions. It will be cool if they went with Cerberus with a Cerberus Phantom. Lets face it, Cerberus Phantom is an pain in the ass Cerberus enemy NPC that had knock many players on their asses and why not be one for the hell of it with all their known abilities.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 4, 2021 2:06:11 GMT
If Indoctrination Theory became canon, whom shall replace Shepard to defeat the Reaper? A proper troll answer is Cerberus. That is not a troll answer. It is the correct answer. Who defeated the collectors? Shepard with help from Cerberus. It was Cerberus that provided Shepard with a ship and a list of names to have on the squad to help defeat the collectors. Shepard went undersover as a Cerberus agent to infiltrate the Alliance. It was her intention to turn over the SR2 to make it look like Shepard wanted to get away from Cerberus. Even though he/she was under house arrest for 6 months, 6 wasted months, hmmm, sounds familiar doesn't it. On Mars, while talking with TIM, it was that point, Agent Shepard realized TIM went loco. He/she decide to help the Alliance, but did so with one eye on Cerberus. Shepard came to the conclusion that TIM is indoctrinated. Either way, Shepard is still an Agent of Cerberus. When the reapers are destroyed, he/she will rebuild Cerberus helping humanity rebuild. What would be cool is Cerberus went to Andromeda, ahead of the other ships, to build a relay to use to get back to the Milky Way. They get in contact with Cora who eventually becomes The Illusive Woman(TIW) for Andromeda. Once the relay is up and working, she heads back to the Milky Way to ask for help with dealing with the kett. Cerberus becomes the white knight in shining armor saving the initiative from being wiped out by the kett.
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Post by Phantom on Mar 4, 2021 2:38:32 GMT
If Indoctrination Theory became canon, whom shall replace Shepard to defeat the Reaper? A proper troll answer is Cerberus. That is not a troll answer. It is the correct answer. Who defeated the collectors? Shepard with help from Cerberus. It was Cerberus that provided Shepard with a ship and a list of names to have on the squad to help defeat the collectors. Shepard went undersover as a Cerberus agent to infiltrate the Alliance. It was her intention to turn over the SR2 to make it look like Shepard wanted to get away from Cerberus. Even though he/she was under house arrest for 6 months, 6 wasted months, hmmm, sounds familiar doesn't it. On Mars, while talking with TIM, it was that point, Agent Shepard realized TIM went loco. He/she decide to help the Alliance, but did so with one eye on Cerberus. Shepard came to the conclusion that TIM is indoctrinated. Either way, Shepard is still an Agent of Cerberus. When the reapers are destroyed, he/she will rebuild Cerberus helping humanity rebuild. What would be cool is Cerberus went to Andromeda, ahead of the other ships, to build a relay to use to get back to the Milky Way. They get in contact with Cora who eventually becomes The Illusive Woman(TIM) for Andromeda. Once the relay is up and working, she heads back to the Milky Way to ask for help with dealing with the kett. Cerberus becomes the white knight in shining armor saving the initiative from being wiped out by the kett. Well i have one of my ideas that My Cerberus Phantom Commander after saving Shepard from Collector due to Liara contacting him during Collector, was looking for the connection between Collectors and a New Reaper Faction. He bumps into Alec Ryder(you can as Alec Ryder for a bit during a certain mission while Cerberus Phantom Commnader was in another fighting). Alec Ryder says that Cerberus Phantom Commander looks familiar like an old N7 that he once knew. A Black Talons Platoon was tasked to destroy Andromeda Initiative but they were defeated by Both of Cerberus Phantom Commander and his team and Alec Ryder and his team. Yes Cerberus Phantom Commander can asked Cora Harper if she is related to T.I.M. and yes you can flirt with her as well. Bit of Cerberus Phantom Commander's history: he was involved in the older generation of N7 like Alec Ryder and David Anderson. And Cerberus offer him a job and able to be converted into a possible super soldier/assassin. Also he did went thru the process and gotten de-aged due to unknown reason during the project. Cerberus Phantom Commander and his team assassinated several allies of Saren and took care of Black Talon platoon that Saren had hired by the Suggestion of Sovereign. Tessa is one of Cerberus Scientists that did develop the Cerberus Phantom Project and she becomes friends and possible love interests of Cerberus Phantom
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 4, 2021 2:57:11 GMT
If Indoctrination Theory became canon, whom shall replace Shepard to defeat the Reaper? A proper troll answer is Cerberus. That is not a troll answer. It is the correct answer. Who defeated the collectors? Shepard with help from Cerberus. It was Cerberus that provided Shepard with a ship and a list of names to have on the squad to help defeat the collectors. Shepard went undersover as a Cerberus agent to infiltrate the Alliance. It was her intention to turn over the SR2 to make it look like Shepard wanted to get away from Cerberus. Even though he/she was under house arrest for 6 months, 6 wasted months, hmmm, sounds familiar doesn't it. On Mars, while talking with TIM, it was that point, Agent Shepard realized TIM went loco. He/she decide to help the Alliance, but did so with one eye on Cerberus. Shepard came to the conclusion that TIM is indoctrinated. Either way, Shepard is still an Agent of Cerberus. When the reapers are destroyed, he/she will rebuild Cerberus helping humanity rebuild. What would be cool is Cerberus went to Andromeda, ahead of the other ships, to build a relay to use to get back to the Milky Way. They get in contact with Cora who eventually becomes The Illusive Woman(TIW) for Andromeda. Once the relay is up and working, she heads back to the Milky Way to ask for help with dealing with the kett. Cerberus becomes the white knight in shining armor saving the initiative from being wiped out by the kett. Works for me. 👍 (So long as the MW aliens meet an "unfortunate" accident along the way....😈)
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 4, 2021 3:31:40 GMT
Can't wait to relive this discourse again. Nearly ten years on...in one respect it's actually a good thing though.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2021 3:39:21 GMT
Can't wait to relive this discourse again. Nearly ten years on...in one respect it's actually a good thing though. How so?
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Post by Hier0phant on Mar 4, 2021 3:44:00 GMT
Ugh Synthesis? If god put a gun to my head then ordered me to choose between the Synthesis ending, and The Last Jedi, i'd tell him that he already knows my answer and to just squeeze the trigger.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 4, 2021 4:06:13 GMT
Nearly ten years on...in one respect it's actually a good thing though. How so? The debates and discussion are often quite good when you see folks who like or hate the games endings engage.
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Post by traks on Mar 4, 2021 8:01:13 GMT
From the article: It kills anyone who's near a machine (like a smartphone?) or has a piercing or an implant (e.g. a pacemaker). Isn't that basically everyone? I don't think that's how it's meant. If Niobium is the cut-off-point, it's the old "on 3 or after 3"-question. Anyways: the idea explains, that the organic parts of Reapers and Husks would be fried because of being surrounded by a lot of heavy metal. A piercing might hurt, but unlikely kill you. Also: if you know beforehand what the crucible is designed to do, you can plan your tactic accordingly. So if space ships could crash when hit by the beam, your plan of course would account for that to keep casualties as low as possible. Building more knowledge throughout the game about what the crucible does - to the point that you know in theory what it should do - would've been a great step to the right presentation. The crucible should've only be designed to do one thing - beat the Reapers - with unavoidable casualties and unforeseen side effects as downsides. The catalyst could then still reveal himself as the control unit of the Reapers to try to convince Shepard of another way (letting him/her control them) with less casualties/side effects but the risk of later power abuse (if Shep can take control, someone else with other goals can). To take control, Shep wouldn't fire the crucible, but simply getting an access code/or something similar from the catalyst and instructions on how to use it. Basically the catalyst giving Shep another option, because it knows that the crucible will otherwise destroy them. A plus would be if Shep would've to go on one final mission with that access code (to get to the terminal where it's usable). That could either be on the citadel or maybe on the lead reaper (boarding that one to switch the reapers off would've been a great finale IMO). Synthesis would be revealed as what the Reapers are trying to do and would happen if Shep refuses destroy or control. So basically in destroy you complete the plan the galactic community came up with, in control the catalyst gives up beforehand but with the risk of future power abuse and synthesis (in this build-up) is letting the Reapers win.
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Post by Blaze on Mar 4, 2021 10:26:53 GMT
i never got the hate toward the ending, it was very intense and emotional. and having just three ending choices doesn't erase everything we did before or how the galaxy is affected by our choices, we just can't see the full extent of them.
my first playthrough my shepard couldn't go with destroy (even though it was her first choice) because it also meant killing the geth and EDI and after fighting and arguing nail and teeth to have the geth and quarian peace she wasn't about to throw it in the trash and wipe off the geth. as for control, well, complete mindwipe is something she was very against, she saw taking over someone thoughts and mind as wrong and worse than death and believed that even the reapers didn't deserve it. as for synthesis, well the idea of merging organics and synthetics was a an unknown with no clear ramifications of it, but it meant peace, she was a soldier but believed in fighting for peace and if it meant sacrificing herself for it, she would have done so happily. so for me the ending was shepard running into the beam to save the galaxy and have lasting peace.
what i find interesting between those choices is that there is no clear answer, each had their pros and cons and it make it interesting. and whatever you do it affect the galaxy permanently. sadly there is a double edge sword in term of sequel because you either have to choose one canon ending or to accommodate for three different states for the galaxy (more when taking into account the krogan, between who leads them and if the cure was in effect or not; and the quarians and geth situation).
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Post by Blaze on Mar 4, 2021 10:41:22 GMT
i would like to add i agree with the notion and often argued it myself about how the whole game was an ending. the entire game had moments in it that was affected by previous decisions made in 1 & 2, from which companions make an appearance to small stuff, like conrad surviving if you did the jenna quest. there are so man variants throughout the game which is i think what casey hudson meant back when promoting the game when he said it will have 1000 choices taking into account. i don't know if it that much cause i never counted, but it might be. mass effect 3 gives your choices throughout the trilogy weight even if it only have three endings. and i would like to remind everyone that KOTOR only had two ending light vs dark side that completely disregarded if you commited to one and chose the other and it still didn't make any of the choices made throughout the game feel any less meaningless.
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Post by Sondergaard on Mar 4, 2021 13:39:15 GMT
I think it is pretty atrocious. Wedded to the 2nd death of shep. Probably more wedded to the mass slaughter and devastation too, just with an undercurrent of science behind it rather than color magic the only thing I agree upon is the notion of scientists telling you beforehand purpose of device, though i’d Have gone a step further and have player choose the builds of it. I didn't say it was good. Just far better than what we got (which was execrable).
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 4, 2021 13:45:04 GMT
From the article: It kills anyone who's near a machine (like a smartphone?) or has a piercing or an implant (e.g. a pacemaker). Isn't that basically everyone? I don't think that's how it's meant. If Niobium is the cut-off-point, it's the old "on 3 or after 3"-question. Anyways: the idea explains, that the organic parts of Reapers and Husks would be fried because of being surrounded by a lot of heavy metal. A piercing might hurt, but unlikely kill you. Also: if you know beforehand what the crucible is designed to do, you can plan your tactic accordingly. So if space ships could crash when hit by the beam, your plan of course would account for that to keep casualties as low as possible. It has been a while since chemistry class but Niobium has an atomic number of 41. Gold has an atomic number of 71 and gold is often used in circuitry. Iridium is another common material used in weapons in mass effect. Meaning anyone with an Omni-Tool or say a gun in their hand would be blasted with fatal radiation as the Crucible fires off. Anyone close enough to someone with an Omni-Tool or a gun in their hands would be blasted by lethal radiation. Out right killing or subjecting 90% of the galaxy to a quick and painful or a slow and agonizing death.
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Post by Sondergaard on Mar 4, 2021 13:47:03 GMT
Maybe not the part about the Reapers saving us, but there are hints at dark energy fuckery in the works in ME2, like Tali's mission to Haestrom, and (I think?) the ending dialogue for Parasini's sidequest on Illium. So there is lore that made it into the games. Anyone saying otherwise is willfully deluding themselves, haven't played the game at all, or have forgotten about these aspects. 6 lines of dialogue and an e-mail out of an entire 20 hour game is not a plot. Otherwise finding the heating coils for that Salarian on the Citadel also counts as a plot point.
Problem is BioWare dropped Dark Energy plot in ME3, they essentially eradicated any reference to it. Why? Because Walters and Hudson wanted to surprise us instead, I guess. God forbid if someone managed to guess an ending in advance, by looking at clues. Can't have that!
6 lines of dialogue and an e-mail across an entire game is not a plot. There is literally 0 actual references to it. It plays 0 part of the over all story. It was literally a year AFTER I beat the trilogy that I even learned that there was suppose to be a plot there. ME2 it literally never expands beyond a reason for Tali to be on Halestrom. That's a very... specific take on the Dark Matter storyline. It was a plot thread to be expanded on in ME3. But Drew left and the Disastrous Duo took over and the rest is history. To see someone pretend it never happened is fascinating.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 4, 2021 14:24:17 GMT
6 lines of dialogue and an e-mail out of an entire 20 hour game is not a plot. Otherwise finding the heating coils for that Salarian on the Citadel also counts as a plot point.
6 lines of dialogue and an e-mail across an entire game is not a plot. There is literally 0 actual references to it. It plays 0 part of the over all story. It was literally a year AFTER I beat the trilogy that I even learned that there was suppose to be a plot there. ME2 it literally never expands beyond a reason for Tali to be on Halestrom. That's a very... specific take on the Dark Matter storyline. It was a plot thread to be expanded on in ME3. But Drew left and the Disastrous Duo took over and the rest is history. To see someone pretend it never happened is fascinating. Name every instance were dark matter was actually brought up and the over all impact or implication in the wider story for ME2.
Because from my memory it was
1. Tali mentioning something about a Star prematurely aging. Which is under cut by the fact 99% of the mission is fighting Geth.
2. Reegar during Tali's loyalty mission talking about how it will take the scientist years to find out the data they found.
3. An E-mail you reived from an NPC from ME1.
Unless I am forgetting some other instances that actually effected the story. Because as the game shows it the star aging was just an excuse to have Tali be on Halestrom the same way Garrus becoming a merc on Omega was an excuse for Garrus to be there. There is nothing developed beyond that point beyond video game convenience for the sake of giving a reason for something rather then the characters simply showing up at the Normandy and wanting to join.
The only real plot thread that was started in ME2 was the humanity is now sum how super special awesome as the game continued to go on and on about how magically unique humanity is because I guess all the other races are so inbred that everyone is both a sibling and cousin at the same time.
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Post by traks on Mar 4, 2021 15:45:57 GMT
I don't think that's how it's meant. If Niobium is the cut-off-point, it's the old "on 3 or after 3"-question. Anyways: the idea explains, that the organic parts of Reapers and Husks would be fried because of being surrounded by a lot of heavy metal. A piercing might hurt, but unlikely kill you. Also: if you know beforehand what the crucible is designed to do, you can plan your tactic accordingly. So if space ships could crash when hit by the beam, your plan of course would account for that to keep casualties as low as possible. It has been a while since chemistry class but Niobium has an atomic number of 41. Gold has an atomic number of 71 and gold is often used in circuitry. Iridium is another common material used in weapons in mass effect. Meaning anyone with an Omni-Tool or say a gun in their hand would be blasted with fatal radiation as the Crucible fires off. Anyone close enough to someone with an Omni-Tool or a gun in their hands would be blasted by lethal radiation. Out right killing or subjecting 90% of the galaxy to a quick and painful or a slow and agonizing death. You do realize, that they would've written it in the way they wanted/needed it to function, right? So there is absolutely no need to discuss this with absurd arguments like it would kill 90% of the galaxy. Hepler's idea was with heavy metal inside a body/near necessary life organs. You surely don't hold your gun inside your body/right besides your heart, or do you? The point of that modified ending idea is to let scientists identify a weakness that can be used to defeat the Reapers. Also to give the crucible a clear mechanism how it works. Not to create a super happy ending without casualties.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Mar 4, 2021 15:59:23 GMT
It has been a while since chemistry class but Niobium has an atomic number of 41. Gold has an atomic number of 71 and gold is often used in circuitry. Iridium is another common material used in weapons in mass effect. Meaning anyone with an Omni-Tool or say a gun in their hand would be blasted with fatal radiation as the Crucible fires off. Anyone close enough to someone with an Omni-Tool or a gun in their hands would be blasted by lethal radiation. Out right killing or subjecting 90% of the galaxy to a quick and painful or a slow and agonizing death. You do realize, that they would've written it in the way they wanted/needed it to function, right? So there is absolutely no need to discuss this with absurd arguments like it would kill 90% of the galaxy. Hepler's idea was with heavy metal inside a body/near necessary life organs. You surely don't hold your gun inside your body/right besides your heart, or do you? The point of that ending idea is to identify a weakness that can be used to defeat the Reapers.
You do know how radiation works right? Like if I put some plutonium next to you you would still get cancer and die. You wouldn't have to be physically holding it or have it be inside of you to kill you. And for it to be lethal radiation that kills in seconds it would have to be extremely powerful radiation which would effect all organic life near by. Holding and wearing something as a galaxy at war everyone would have at least a side arm and Omni-Tools are universal.
This is needed to be talked about when people start to wave it around as a "superior" ending because it is the same space magic bullshit that the game already has.
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Nov 26, 2024 16:35:23 GMT
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traks
1,012
Aug 22, 2016 11:07:02 GMT
August 2016
traks
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
t_raks_99
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Post by traks on Mar 4, 2021 16:09:43 GMT
You do realize, that they would've written it in the way they wanted/needed it to function, right? So there is absolutely no need to discuss this with absurd arguments like it would kill 90% of the galaxy. Hepler's idea was with heavy metal inside a body/near necessary life organs. You surely don't hold your gun inside your body/right besides your heart, or do you? The point of that ending idea is to identify a weakness that can be used to defeat the Reapers.
You do know how radiation works right? Like if I put some plutonium next to you you would still get cancer and die. You wouldn't have to be physically holding it or have it be inside of you to kill you. And for it to be lethal radiation that kills in seconds it would have to be extremely powerful radiation which would effect all organic life near by. Holding and wearing something as a galaxy at war everyone would have at least a side arm and Omni-Tools are universal.
This is needed to be talked about when people start to wave it around as a "superior" ending because it is the same space magic bullshit that the game already has.
There is no talk about radiation being left/a side effect of the crucible. Just that it annihilates objects with a high atomic number. Is that still space magic? Of course (even though he doesn't admit it). But's it's explained before you hit the button. It's also a weapon that has only one function. Way better to build your ending from there.
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