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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 17, 2021 0:49:35 GMT
Doesn't Jack make a comment about Miranda's suit, if she's there in her recruitment mission? Or am I remembering it wrong? It's not like my memory is stellar. I checked that scene on YouTube, along with their fight on the Normandy. Jack starts the "cheerleader" thing, calls Miranda a bitch, and makes threats, but I didn't see anything about Miranda's clothes. I guess we have the same wrong memory there. Ah! Mandela effect.
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 17, 2021 0:51:51 GMT
I checked that scene on YouTube, along with their fight on the Normandy. Jack starts the "cheerleader" thing, calls Miranda a bitch, and makes threats, but I didn't see anything about Miranda's clothes. I guess we have the same wrong memory there. Ah! Mandela effect. Thanks! I was trying to remember the name of that and couldn't
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Post by Iakus on Aug 17, 2021 0:52:01 GMT
He's one example, yes. Kasumi's is also tight, as is Samara's, and Jack is half naked. Notice they are all women except for Jacob? legbamel had an excellent point whether you like it or not My initial post was a bit facetious considering I called for equal opportunity slut-shaming. (I thought that was obvious, but evidently not.) It would be better if the developers didn't force any character into a skimpy suit like that and then call them a whore over it. THane has an open shirt as well. He's basically the cover of a frog-romance enovel.
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 17, 2021 0:57:57 GMT
He's one example, yes. Kasumi's is also tight, as is Samara's, and Jack is half naked. Notice they are all women except for Jacob? legbamel had an excellent point whether you like it or not My initial post was a bit facetious considering I called for equal opportunity slut-shaming. (I thought that was obvious, but evidently not.) It would be better if the developers didn't force any character into a skimpy suit like that and then call them a whore over it. THane has an open shirt as well. He's basically the cover of a frog-romanc enovel. A bare chest on a man isn't typically considered scandalous in the way a low-cut top is on a woman. His jacket makes his outfit much less revealing than those of Jacob or the women/asari I mentioned, since a lot of the curves are covered up. And he also isn't called a whore over his outfit
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 17, 2021 16:20:47 GMT
He's one example, yes. Kasumi's is also tight, as is Samara's, and Jack is half naked. Notice they are all women except for Jacob? legbamel had an excellent point whether you like it or not My initial post was a bit facetious considering I called for equal opportunity slut-shaming. (I thought that was obvious, but evidently not.) It would be better if the developers didn't force any character into a skimpy suit like that and then call them a whore over it. Yeah. slut shaming is a thing. Even worse is that it's often not warranted, even if someone were to make a big deal out of the behavior. Nothing I've seen suggests any of the people you mentioned were "sluts". Jack had her stuff but she was also searching for a way to belong. And, of course, people generally don't care what men do.
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 17, 2021 16:49:13 GMT
He's one example, yes. Kasumi's is also tight, as is Samara's, and Jack is half naked. Notice they are all women except for Jacob? legbamel had an excellent point whether you like it or not My initial post was a bit facetious considering I called for equal opportunity slut-shaming. (I thought that was obvious, but evidently not.) It would be better if the developers didn't force any character into a skimpy suit like that and then call them a whore over it. Yeah. slut shaming is a thing. Even worse is that it's often not warranted, even if someone were to make a big deal out of the behavior. Nothing I've seen suggests any of the people you mentioned were "sluts". Jack had her stuff but she was also searching for a way to belong. And, of course, people generally don't care what men do. I agree. Miranda is also not a whore, she's just the only one called out for what she's wearing. Zero opportunity for slut shaming is still equal opportunity My wish is for characters' default outfits to reflect their role (for example, armor covering the abdomen, or a professional set of fatigues, or whatever), and there could be alternative "sexy" outfits for players who want them. Kind of the opposite of what MELE gave us. I guess I should be thankful that Femshep gets reasonable fatigues and armor to wear. I remember when I first played DAO, my warden was a Dalish female and had to spend like half the game getting into combat with a bra and short skirt. That pissed me off. She ought to have died straight away from gaping stomach wounds.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 17, 2021 17:20:45 GMT
THane has an open shirt as well. He's basically the cover of a frog-romanc enovel. A bare chest on a man isn't typically considered scandalous in the way a low-cut top is on a woman. His jacket makes his outfit much less revealing than those of Jacob or the women/asari I mentioned, since a lot of the curves are covered up. And he also isn't called a whore over his outfit Well to me it's still a ridiculous outfit. Not a matter of slut-shaming to me, it's the idiocy of going into combat, or hazardous environments with exposed skin or covering insufficient to protect said skin. I mean, combat hardsuits can still show off a character's figure, why go from badass space marines to superheroes over the course of a single game?
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 17, 2021 18:51:53 GMT
A bare chest on a man isn't typically considered scandalous in the way a low-cut top is on a woman. His jacket makes his outfit much less revealing than those of Jacob or the women/asari I mentioned, since a lot of the curves are covered up. And he also isn't called a whore over his outfit Well to me it's still a ridiculous outfit. Not a matter of slut-shaming to me, it's the idiocy of going into combat, or hazardous environments with exposed skin or covering insufficient to protect said skin. I mean, combat hardsuits can still show off a character's figure, why go from badass space marines to superheroes over the course of a single game? Oh I agree completely. That's what I was talking about above with having companions wearing appropriate outfits by default
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Post by Felya87 on Aug 17, 2021 19:15:53 GMT
DAI nailed the right concept: distinct clothes in the castle, armour out in the field. I think ME could work much better with everyone dressing as they please on the ship, and putting actual armour while on mission. MEA doesn this right with the human characters, but PeeBee stay in her jacket with bare midriff outside in space.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 17, 2021 19:51:57 GMT
DAI nailed the right concept: distinct clothes in the castle, armour out in the field. I think ME could work much better with everyone dressing as they please on the ship, and putting actual armour while on mission. MEA doesn this right with the human characters, but PeeBee stay in her jacket with bare midriff outside in space. DAI got it right that we could select armor for IB that didn't flash his bosomy man-pillows if we didn't want to.
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Post by Felya87 on Aug 17, 2021 20:01:21 GMT
DAI nailed the right concept: distinct clothes in the castle, armour out in the field. I think ME could work much better with everyone dressing as they please on the ship, and putting actual armour while on mission. MEA doesn this right with the human characters, but Peetee stay in her jacket with bare midriff outside in space. DAI got it right that we could select armor for IB that didn't flash his bosomy man-pillows if we didn't want to. Or Vivienne's boob window.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 17, 2021 22:10:09 GMT
DAI got it right that we could select armor for IB that didn't flash his bosomy man-pillows if we didn't want to. Or Vivienne's boob window. Or Varric’s boob window.
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Post by maxon on Aug 18, 2021 0:13:25 GMT
Many years ago in my PnP RPG group I challenged the GM to make an NPC, give them a backstory and personality, and then randomly generate their sex afterward. We ended up with a strong, one-eyed, dashing princess charming. Sometimes I feel Bioware might be well served by having the writers make each character's story and personality first and then roll dice to determine gender, race and sexual orientation. I've cropped your post for the interesting (to me) part. One of the great things about playing Commander Shepard (f) when I first played was how normal she seemed (or as normal as an exceptional character can be) - I would guess many male players would not think so but as a female player, that's how she came across to me. She just did stuff as you would, as I would. I think this is because the character was originally written as male and to make a playable female version, they just added the appropriate body. No change to anything else, crucially her character and how it was expressed. Shepard was just the protagonist. It was just sooooooooooooo refreshing for me as player. It made me really cheerful and is one of the reasons I really liked the game right from the off. Basically, the character was created just as you describe and I think that's possibly a good method (*must try that with my own characters*) and maybe Bioware should go with that. I think the problem with saying things (as you do in your later post) like 'don't make Asians treacherous' is that you place a limit on the potential of all characters - I mean Asians can be bad guys too though I agree making an Asian a bad guy because that's how they're seen is problematic. The randomisation approach would help with that and could, potentially, lead to some interesting storylines. I just amuse myself with the thought that if Liam was picked for that position, what were the other candidates like? I mean, their job was to pick a crew that could handle 20,000 lives depending on them, and this is what they chose. Though it's probably easier to write a bunch of characters that produce big pings on the QuirkMeter3000 than a group of rather normal but competent people who still have interesting personalities somehow. I think that the Initiative was a huge ponzi scheme to get rid of all the top 0.001% imbeciles of the Milky Way. You seriously can't get dumber than the Initiative.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks that. I think that came in about 6th in the 'things that yanked me out of suspension of disbelief' in Andromeda. I managed (finally) to get through it all in my last playthrough but there was a lot of teeth gritting.
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Post by midnightwolf on Aug 20, 2021 21:22:19 GMT
Why not just avoid all stereotypes? Whatever happened to 'creativity'? STOP Bringing real World issues into Gaming. My RL, 60% is taken up with Politics. I DON'T need or WANT to see it in my gaming. There has to be a compromise somewhere.
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Post by elegantpony on Aug 21, 2021 4:09:06 GMT
I'm a lesbian and honestly I feel like Sapphic representation has been pretty good in Mass Effect both in regards to humans and in regards to Asari if you count them (which I 100% DO)
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Post by elegantpony on Aug 21, 2021 4:15:50 GMT
Why not just avoid all stereotypes? Whatever happened to 'creativity'? STOP Bringing real World issues into Gaming. My RL, 60% is taken up with Politics. I DON'T need or WANT to see it in my gaming. There has to be a compromise somewhere. "Why not just avoid all stereotypes?"
Literally impossible
"Whatever happened to 'creativity'?"
What does "cretivity" have to do with avoiding all stereotypes?
"STOP Bringing real World issues into Gaming."
So you don't want the game to engaging in the slightest? "Real world issues" and "Politics" are necessary for a story to be engaging because it allows people to RELATE and get invested.
Usually people who whine about "MUH PAHLETIKS IN MUH GAYMZ" are overly sensitive people who are afraid of a little introspection and empathy for other groups, and see every bit of attempt for depth and inclusivity as a personal attack on them.
"There has to be a compromise somewhere."
Yeah there is a compromise its called getting over yourself and acknowledge that there are people that exist outside of your personal demographic.
"I DON'T need or WANT to see it in my gaming. "
Well there's frankly nothing you can do about it other than not play or it or simply getting over it. Is this what its like to be part of a demographic who's sensibilities and preferences are catered to on a regular basis?
Despite having countless media, literature, and culture that caters to them they're still so entitled to take any bit of diversity and additional perspective as a personal attack?
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Post by midnightwolf on Aug 21, 2021 13:46:30 GMT
Why not just avoid all stereotypes? Whatever happened to 'creativity'? STOP Bringing real World issues into Gaming. My RL, 60% is taken up with Politics. I DON'T need or WANT to see it in my gaming. There has to be a compromise somewhere. "Why not just avoid all stereotypes?"
Literally impossible
"Whatever happened to 'creativity'?"
What does "cretivity" have to do with avoiding all stereotypes?
"STOP Bringing real World issues into Gaming."
So you don't want the game to engaging in the slightest? "Real world issues" and "Politics" are necessary for a story to be engaging because it allows people to RELATE and get invested.
Usually people who whine about "MUH PAHLETIKS IN MUH GAYMZ" are overly sensitive people who are afraid of a little introspection and empathy for other groups, and see every bit of attempt for depth and inclusivity as a personal attack on them.
"There has to be a compromise somewhere."
Yeah there is a compromise its called getting over yourself and acknowledge that there are people that exist outside of your personal demographic.
"I DON'T need or WANT to see it in my gaming. "
Well there's frankly nothing you can do about it other than not play or it or simply getting over it. Is this what its like to be part of a demographic who's sensibilities and preferences are catered to on a regular basis?
Despite having countless media, literature, and culture that caters to them they're still so entitled to take any bit of diversity and additional perspective as a personal attack?
DISCLAIMER: I haven't read that wall of text. BUT, how hard is it to write a Lesbian character who DOES NOT look like a MAN? What about Gay Men who are always overly queer? I wish to see quality characters which don't fit those boxes. Women who still exude femininity, but are still able to be Lesbians. Men who like Men, but aren't what we British sometimes call, Nancy boy's.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2021 13:59:17 GMT
DISCLAIMER: I haven't read that wall of text. BUT, how hard is it to write a Lesbian character who DOES NOT look like a MAN? What about Gay Men who are always overly queer? I wish to see quality characters which don't fit those boxes. Women who still exude femininity, but are still able to be Lesbians. Men who like Men, but aren't what we British sometimes call, Nancy boy's. But that's not "approved body type". See Teela in Kevin Smith's He-Man See any female Marvel character in the comic books. E.g. Nebula Don't get me started on Carl Manvers, I mean, Carol Danvers, a.k.a. Captain Marvel. Or what they did to Aloy in the new Horizon game. Oh, wait, that's not actually Aloy. This is Aloy.
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Post by Felya87 on Aug 21, 2021 14:04:14 GMT
how hard is it to write a Lesbian character who DOES NOT look like a MAN? err...is that not the contrary? I've seen so many "Cassandra should be lesbian!" cry that I thought people WANT a butch lesbian romance (let's not go to the annoyng road of people not aknowledging the existence of non stereotypically feminine women who are straight), and are actually annoyed because all BioWare romances (in DA and ME at least) are all very feminine?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 14:15:39 GMT
Pete Postlethwaite invited me into his trailer, back when I still thought I would be an actor.
I was the stunt/body double for Harry Connick Jr. in a movie that I think ended up being called "Wayward Son".
Anyways, old Pete was a favorite of mine already at that point (1998) and as an aspiring actor - Hell yeah I will take a chance at being hit on (I thought he was gay lol) to go BS with a real actor in their trailer!
He pulled out some whiskey, and started pouring. I had to pass after two; I got the job because of a friend, I was brand new in town, and I didn't want to be an obviously drunk lightweight on set.
Hilarious guy, very kind. What a voice.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2021 14:20:45 GMT
how hard is it to write a Lesbian character who DOES NOT look like a MAN? err...is that not the contrary? I've seen so many "Cassandra should be lesbian!" cry that I thought people WANT a butch lesbian romance (let's not go to the annoyng road of people not aknowledging the existence of non stereotypically feminine women who are straight), and are actually annoyed because all BioWare romances (in DA and ME at least) are all very feminine? That is called "Queer baiting" and it's worse, because the character looks like what you'd expect for a LGBTQ+ character to look like, but isn't. And with the exception of Aloy, whose sexuality I am not aware of, all the other characters mentioned above in my comment are baseline bi. Including Nebula, including Teela, including Carl Manvers, who likes to take little girls in weekend trips, like Riri Williams and Kamala Khan. That's right, Carl Manvers is a P.
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Post by Felya87 on Aug 21, 2021 14:37:06 GMT
err...is that not the contrary? I've seen so many "Cassandra should be lesbian!" cry that I thought people WANT a butch lesbian romance (let's not go to the annoyng road of people not aknowledging the existence of non stereotypically feminine women who are straight), and are actually annoyed because all BioWare romances (in DA and ME at least) are all very feminine? That is called "Queer baiting" and it's worse, because the character looks like what you'd expect for a LGBTQ+ character to look like, but isn't. And with the exception of Aloy, whose sexuality I am not aware of, all the other characters mentioned above in my comment are baseline bi. Including Nebula, including Teela, including Carl Manvers, who likes to take little girls in weekend trips, like Riri Williams and Kamala Khan. That's right, Carl Manvers is a P.
Cassandra is not qeerbaiting. I'm very much like her (short hair, no make up, no skirts) and I'm a straight woman, we non classic feminine straight women exists. THe rest are just stupid stereotypes. Aloy (my favourite protagonist of the last years) have no set sexuality, aside a line or two that can be interpreted as being attracted to one of the guy from the Nora.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2021 15:15:31 GMT
Cassandra is not qeerbaiting. I've been told, very aggressively, that it is. Some people can't be reasoned with. I don't particularly have a problem with it, either way. I didn't like Cassandra enough to have any strong opinions. At the time, I didn't know what queerbaiting is. In fact, I missed the entire thing with Jack in ME2, as well.
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Iakus
20,881
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Aug 21, 2021 17:36:17 GMT
Pete Postlethwaite invited me into his trailer, back when I still thought I would be an actor. I was the stunt/body double for Harry Connick Jr. in a movie that I think ended up being called "Wayward Son". Anyways, old Pete was a favorite of mine already at that point (1998) and as an aspiring actor - Hell yeah I will take a chance at being hit on (I thought he was gay lol) to go BS with a real actor in their trailer! He pulled out some whiskey, and started pouring. I had to pass after two; I got the job because of a friend, I was brand new in town, and I didn't want to be an obviously drunk lightweight on set. Hilarious guy, very kind. What a voice. Made a great Obadiah Hakeswill. Was a very convincing psychopath.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Biotic Booty
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Apr 19, 2024 16:40:05 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 22, 2021 1:17:30 GMT
Cassandra is not qeerbaiting. I've been told, very aggressively, that it is. Some people can't be reasoned with. I don't particularly have a problem with it, either way. I didn't like Cassandra enough to have any strong opinions. At the time, I didn't know what queerbaiting is. In fact, I missed the entire thing with Jack in ME2, as well. You're on the wrong message board for that kind of thing. Here, in reality, it isn't the case. There, where it is the case gender *mumble*mumble*, so calling Cassandra female is horrifying and it's therefore impossible to queerbait. G--- and sex--- have no meaning since it could shift with the wind.
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