dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 22, 2021 1:29:55 GMT
Why not just avoid all stereotypes? Whatever happened to 'creativity'? STOP Bringing real World issues into Gaming. My RL, 60% is taken up with Politics. I DON'T need or WANT to see it in my gaming. There has to be a compromise somewhere. Define stereotype? Stereotypes don't come from nowhere. I know a lot of guys like Dorian so should we ignore them to avoid a stereotype? It's honestly a lose-lose proposition. Someone will be like "I wasn't represented" but to someone else it'll be "finally, I'm represented". Someone else will be like "who tf cares anyway?" When I heard Ethan Jeong was a stereotypical Asian I was all like "what? I never noticed for a second". Fai Dan was a puppet to the Thorian but still ended up having the willpower to overcome it. Despite the last name I didn't think much about it all. I noticed Dorian but I also noticed BroShep and Kaidan (should you have them romance one another) don't fill the stereotype. Neither does Cortez. Or Kelly, though I realize she's bisexual. Jacob? Yeah, he ended up fitting a stereotype if FemShep romanced and I agree that was really poor writing. There were no redeeming characteristics to him. He was practically Liara in ME1 in the ninjamance department. OTOH, David Anderson was the kind of awesome who Jacob should have been looking up to rather than taking his toys and going home - a reference to his backstory.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 22, 2021 2:07:33 GMT
Why not just avoid all stereotypes? Whatever happened to 'creativity'? STOP Bringing real World issues into Gaming. My RL, 60% is taken up with Politics. I DON'T need or WANT to see it in my gaming. There has to be a compromise somewhere. Define stereotype? Stereotypes don't come from nowhere. I know a lot of guys like Dorian so should we ignore them to avoid a stereotype? It's honestly a lose-lose proposition. Someone will be like "I wasn't represented" but to someone else it'll be "finally, I'm represented". Someone else will be like "who tf cares anyway?" When I heard Ethan Jeong was a stereotypical Asian I was all like "what? I never noticed for a second". Fai Dan was a puppet to the Thorian but still ended up having the willpower to overcome it. Despite the last name I didn't think much about it all. I noticed Dorian but I also noticed BroShep and Kaidan (should you have them romance one another) don't fill the stereotype. Neither does Cortez. Or Kelly, though I realize she's bisexual. Jacob? Yeah, he ended up fitting a stereotype if FemShep romanced and I agree that was really poor writing. There were no redeeming characteristics to him. He was practically Liara in ME1 in the ninjamance department. OTOH, David Anderson was the kind of awesome who Jacob should have been looking up to rather than taking his toys and going home - a reference to his backstory. I never really saw the whole "stereotype" for Dorian. I mean, look at who he resembled:
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Post by Phantom on Aug 22, 2021 2:38:01 GMT
I do admit that I do genuinely like Steve Cortez and Kelly Chambers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 11:07:25 GMT
I liked Steve so much, I turned for him. Was worth it. That Shepard really didn't know he was gay, he just fell in love.
Kelly is a sweetheart. An underdeveloped one. For someone I spoke that much to, she should have had more to say.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 22, 2021 20:39:58 GMT
I never really saw the whole "stereotype" for Doroan. I mean, look at who he resembled: That may be, but times have changed. What defined masculinity in the past is long gone. Dorian was flamboyant to me. Maybe I've just hung around a lot more gay people in my life. The first guy I had a LTR with was a lot like Dorian, right down to the bitchiness.
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Post by lesbiannotqueer on Aug 22, 2021 21:47:39 GMT
I'd like to for once see a lesbian be selectable squadmate instead of relegated to ship duties like (don't get me wrong, I LOVE them,) Suvi and Samantha.
I didn't want to romance Liara at first but then again, my other option in ME: Legendary from 1 - 3 would've been play as DudeShep (um, no) or do the horizontal mambo with Kaiden and honestly, James Vega is more attractive than Kaiden, in this lesbian's opinion. Not that it matters.
I get it, the whole romance thing didn't start until after the first game came around - or something like that, I don't know, I wasn't into gayming again like I am now in 2007, just denying life in general, but I understand why the options were limited in Legendary as FemShep.
I feel as though lesbians are poorly represented in this entire franchise for bisexuals and main male characters homosexuality instead. Even in Andromeda.
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 23, 2021 2:08:12 GMT
I'd like to for once see a lesbian be selectable squadmate instead of relegated to ship duties like (don't get me wrong, I LOVE them,) Suvi and Samantha. No love for Vetra? Or is she bisexual? I don't even remember. I romanced her with female Ryder, though.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 23, 2021 4:38:48 GMT
I'd like to for once see a lesbian be selectable squadmate instead of relegated to ship duties like (don't get me wrong, I LOVE them,) Suvi and Samantha. No love for Vetra? Or is she bisexual? I don't even remember. I romanced her with female Ryder, though. Vetra is bi. The LIs in MEA are Cora: Straight Liam: Straight Vetra: Bi Suvi: Lesbian Gil: Gay PeeBee: Bi Keri: Bi Jaal: Bi Avela: Straight Reyes: Bi
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 23, 2021 19:49:04 GMT
There still generally isn't much representation of Arabs in video games (in particular North African Arabs) would be nice to see more of them in video games (ideally not the normal badguy/terrorist sterotype)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2021 23:19:25 GMT
...my other option in ME: Legendary from 1 - 3 would've been play as DudeShep (um, no) You're missing out. I enjoyed my straight and lesbian FemShep runs, as much as I enjoyed my straight and gay Sheploos. Lots of good content there, that you miss due to what appears to be prejudice. Look at Hanako's list for Andromeda. It is progress, and there still (gasp) has to be representation for the majority cohort. Because that's where most of the money is. I agree that they should have an obvious happy lesbian badass on board. Edit: demographics data - quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 28, 2021 20:29:05 GMT
I didn't want to romance Liara at first but then again, my other option in ME: Legendary from 1 - 3 would've been play as DudeShep (um, no) or do the horizontal mambo with Kaiden and honestly, James Vega is more attractive than Kaiden, in this lesbian's opinion. Not that it matters If you're a PC player, there's a mod for MELE1 (and ME1) that allows a FemShep to romance Ash. If it's anything like the BroShep/Kaidan romance it'll be well worth your while. Someone had to fix BioWare's mistake. www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/564So far the modder hsan't come through on MELE2 and MELE3 but in the original ME2 and ME3 he made mods to fix all of it.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Sept 1, 2021 17:59:31 GMT
I would like to see more romanceable black men that cheat on me after giving them my heart. That felt really immersive.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 1, 2021 18:10:50 GMT
I would like to see more romanceable black men that cheat on me after giving them my heart. That felt really immersive. Hey, we're talking about what to avoid! I think if you scan pretty much any thread regarding this, no one is on the side of cheating Jacob. It was a fail on BioWare's part. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be the most disliked character if they had avoided this. It just ended up making him seem more like his father, using women until they weren't convenient anymore. Not as bad as his father, because that man was despicable (also, black man doing that stuff) but still not good. Had Shepard been locked up a year or longer, maybe. But six months and having impregnated a woman who was already at least a few months in suggests that once Shepard was gone he moved on immediately. So much for being a better man than his father. I would love to see a black man on the squad (I still think protagonist race should be up to the player) who's a good man, through and through. Either romanced by the protagonist or in an existing relationship and refusing to flirt. Sort of like how if Male Ryder flirts with Liam, Liam makes it clear he's not interested. No harm and we have a guy who won't cross certain lines. FYI, I know you were being sarcastic but just wanted to put out my viewpoint. EDIT/ADD: Black characters are not "my" group but I still don't think thy should be treated like full-on stereotypes.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Sept 1, 2021 18:20:28 GMT
I would like to see more romanceable black men that cheat on me after giving them my heart. That felt really immersive. Hey, we're talking about what to avoid! I think if you scan pretty much any thread regarding this, no one is on the side of cheating Jacob. It was a fail on BioWare's part. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be the most disliked character if they had avoided this. It just ended up making him seem more like his father, using women until they weren't convenient anymore. Not as bad as his father, because that man was despicable (also, black man doing that stuff) but still not good. Had Shepard been locked up a year or longer, maybe. But six months and having impregnated a woman who was already at least a few months in suggests that once Shepard was gone he moved on immediately. So much for being a better man than his father. I would love to see a black man on the squad (I still think protagonist race should be up to the player) who's a good man, through and through. Either romanced by the protagonist or in an existing relationship and refusing to flirt. Sort of like how if Male Ryder flirts with Liam, Liam makes it clear he's not interested. No harm and we have a guy who won't cross certain lines. FYI, I know you were being sarcastic but just wanted to put out my viewpoint. EDIT/ADD: Black characters are not "my" group but I still don't think thy should be treated like full-on stereotypes. The biggest thing I would like from BioWare on the next game is for the romances to feel more organic to the character's story. ME1-3 can feel very very strange sometimes. Such as Kaidan hitting on bro Shep just coz Bro Shep is trying to be a bro. The same is true in MEA, heck it's even worse in MEA because you get this feel where they're all just having sex coz they're bored teenagers on a ship together. There's no weight or drama to the romance, it's just fluff. Wouldn't it be cool if you could romance character, not by simply clicking an "I like you" button, but by organically developing the relationship between the two characters? Or if you knew exactly where you stood with each character's opinion of you without having to meta game things to check certain boxes to make certain people happy?
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 1, 2021 18:50:47 GMT
Wouldn't it be cool if you could romance character, not by simply clicking an "I like you" button, but by organically developing the relationship between the two characters? I felt the A/K romances had some progression. You had to spend time building a relationship. Liara is another story, since she'll jump in your bed if you so much as smile at you, but I don't see that with A/K. As for ME3 and Kaidan, that was the result of a fan movement. I know some people got butthurt over their straight male Shepard getting hit on but get over it. If you're not interested just say so. I've had girls hit on me at times in my life. If you are interested then pursue it. I always headcanon that people like Shepard, Kaidan and Ashley (who should have been an option for FemShep) were bi or, as some say, "Shepard-sexual". At the very least they were probably progressive enough to not be bothered by the flirts. We know Jacob is another ninjamance type like Liara but what about the rest of the crew? Less so, I think. All of that said, yes, organic romances would be nice. But how do you make them happen without certain boxes being checked? It comes through discussion. Then, after a certain point, they become a romance option. I guess you can spread it out longer but then you're stuck with them being your SO until nearly the end. I like my romances to be part of the story as much as possible. I do like these discussions because I sometimes see different POVs that I can relate to.
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Post by steppinrazor on Sept 1, 2021 19:02:20 GMT
Wait, Vetra is bi?!?
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Post by dragontartare on Sept 2, 2021 4:33:59 GMT
but I don't see that with A/K. Oh I do. They are almost as bad as Liara with ninjamancing in ME1. But I agree with everything else you said.
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Post by Guardian on Sept 3, 2021 0:20:19 GMT
Cassandra is not qeerbaiting. I've been told, very aggressively, that it is. Some people can't be reasoned with. I don't particularly have a problem with it, either way. I didn't like Cassandra enough to have any strong opinions. At the time, I didn't know what queerbaiting is. In fact, I missed the entire thing with Jack in ME2, as well.
I can remember when Cora was first shown, people were talking about how she had to be Bi, if not Lesbian outright. When it was revealed she was straight, there was so much screaming about how this was queerbaiting, how her haircut "screamed" lesbian, the fact that she was with Asari and "worshiped" them were strong coding signs....and when it was said she was 100% straight, you didn't want to be near the Cora thread for days. I seriously thought they were going to lock it at one point...
There were also a few minor articles written about it, basically calling for BioWare to "fix" it. I'll see if I can find them, but yeah...it was bad.
Basically, each person's perspective can be different about such things - I have no doubt Felya is correct in what she's experienced, but from the circles I do lurk in, I can mirror what SirSourpuss has said and have witnessed.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 3, 2021 0:28:19 GMT
This "coding" shit, I don't get it. It's like taking real world stereotypes and applying them to fiction. Which is usually sexist, racist, misogynist, or any mix of the aforementioned. And yet, these people go out of their way to apply it to fiction. Like the D&D Orcs thing. Then they blame everyone else, for the coding they inserted into fiction. The complete lack of awareness and the hypocrisy of these actions is just ... it's transcendent.
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Post by Guardian on Sept 3, 2021 2:48:24 GMT
This "coding" shit, I don't get it. It's like taking real world stereotypes and applying them to fiction. Which is usually sexist, racist, misogynist, or any mix of the aforementioned. And yet, these people go out of their way to apply it to fiction. Like the D&D Orcs thing. Then they blame everyone else, for the coding they inserted into fiction. The complete lack of awareness and the hypocrisy of these actions is just ... it's transcendent.
100% agree with you on this.
The orc thing for D&D....that just really set me off. I was like, "Really? Why don't we just eliminate alignment all together in D&D and just not bother with any form of RP?"
But yes, I fully agree with all of what you said about this.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 3, 2021 11:33:32 GMT
Don't even get me started on the wheelchair accessible dungeons. Like, what the fuck are you gonna do? Put a ramp over the acid pit?
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Post by Iakus on Sept 3, 2021 17:08:52 GMT
I've been told, very aggressively, that it is. Some people can't be reasoned with. I don't particularly have a problem with it, either way. I didn't like Cassandra enough to have any strong opinions. At the time, I didn't know what queerbaiting is. In fact, I missed the entire thing with Jack in ME2, as well.
I can remember when Cora was first shown, people were talking about how she had to be Bi, if not Lesbian outright. When it was revealed she was straight, there was so much screaming about how this was queerbaiting, how her haircut "screamed" lesbian, the fact that she was with Asari and "worshiped" them were strong coding signs....and when it was said she was 100% straight, you didn't want to be near the Cora thread for days. I seriously thought they were going to lock it at one point...
There were also a few minor articles written about it, basically calling for BioWare to "fix" it. I'll see if I can find them, but yeah...it was bad.
Basically, each person's perspective can be different about such things - I have no doubt Felya is correct in what she's experienced, but from the circles I do lurk in, I can mirror what SirSourpuss has said and have witnessed.
I like romances in games. But attitudes like that make me understand why developers are getting gun-shy about them.
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Post by Guardian on Sept 3, 2021 20:11:41 GMT
I like romances in games. But attitudes like that make me understand why developers are getting gun-shy about them. Same, and I completely understand and agree.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 3, 2021 22:54:37 GMT
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dmc1001
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 3, 2021 23:01:56 GMT
This "coding" shit, I don't get it. It's like taking real world stereotypes and applying them to fiction. Which is usually sexist, racist, misogynist, or any mix of the aforementioned. And yet, these people go out of their way to apply it to fiction. Like the D&D Orcs thing. Then they blame everyone else, for the coding they inserted into fiction. The complete lack of awareness and the hypocrisy of these actions is just ... it's transcendent.
They scream about stereotypes appearing but then scream when the look doesn't follow the behavior. The only way to deal with those people is to ignore them. I've met people who I was 100% sure were gay/lesbian and then found out I was wrong. It's just like. I think it's why BroShep/Kaidan worked so well for me. Neither fits a stereotype but there they are together anyway. I'll have to say that BioWare has managed to avoid stereotypes around sexuality. I think Traynor was the closest to a stereotype. Cora's haircut means nothing, especially so far into the future. As for the asari, they're the biotics who taught her and she looked up to one as a mentor. Ridiculous. I actually know one lesbian who is drop dead gorgeous and very effeminate. Yeah, people being people. Who'd guess it?
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