inherit
6864
0
1,975
aglomeracja
1,178
April 2017
aglomeracja
|
Post by aglomeracja on Apr 7, 2021 21:39:34 GMT
We also have both reports and official information that the whole direction for DA4 has change both times, first from "smaller than DAI, but much larger in player choice, followers, reactivity, and depth" to "leaning more into the live service online elements" but not "Anthem with dragons" and now back to single player. No, we don’t know those changes occurred. This is the part where you are making assumptions. We have reports that a version of the game (early code name Joplin) was in the works with a focus on player choice, reactivity etc. We know that this development was effectively dropped so that the team could be reassigned to put out fires on Anthem and a small team continued with a rebooted development under the codename Morrison, which would have more integrated live service components. The fact that development effectively stopped entirely to help along another troubled project is probably at least part of why Mike Laidlaw decided it was a good time to leave if you must speculate about that. This is where the assumptions people seem to be making come in. Assumptions for the 2017 “Reboot”: Live Service = Multiplayer Game Live Service = Minimized Reactivity Live Service = Minimized Character Interaction/Story Live Service = Anthem style game These are all massive assumptions. Casey Hudson responded to such speculations when the article about that reboot was written by reasserting that Morrison would be a character and story focused game, take that for whatever it may be worth. As many have noted, a live service is a very ambiguous term and need not even include multiplayer, much less require multiplayer to be the primary game mode. I don’t doubt that means of player interaction and multiplayer were worked into the design, I just doubt that means all the single player elements we heard about in the prior design were tossed to the wayside. Thinking that they were is a vast assumption. And so portraying this recent shift as “back to single player” is also an assumption, an assumption that the game was going to have multiplayer as anything but an optional or secondary component. In fact, nothing about the recent news indicates the game will now lack live services either, because live service and multiplayer are not synonyms. You can build up this narrative in your head all you like, but the reality is that none of the prior news suggests they must “start from scratch”, to have a single player game. 1. I don't think they threw away everything they had this time around (though they probably did in 2017). They sure as shit changed the direction for the game as a whole and threw away all "live service" stuff they worked on for the last 3 years. 2. I obviously don't know how much exactly they need to change the game to make it purely single player. They decided to reboot the whole thing when they wanted to include live service. Is doing it the other way around much easier? That we don't know. 3. Maybe you don't remember this, but EA was pretty clear what kind of "live service" they want - one that keeps people playing the game and earns shitload of money on microtransactions. I'm pretty sure that this might be the very definition of the term "live service", even if not an official one. I'm not sure what is the other way of achieving that other than multiplayer. 4. It's Bioware, even when they made a pure MMO game it was still "story and character driven". I'm pretty sure they said that about Anthem too. 5. Yes, most likely when Bioware decided to reboot DA4 after 2 years of development to make the game support live service, Mike Laidlaw said "fuck it, I'm out" and off he went. Most likely a when EA(?) decided to "change direction" for DA4 to one that doesn't include live service, Mark Darrah and Casey Hudson went "fuck it, were're out". Also, please don't overuse terms "assumption" and "speculation". Those are pretty much the only 2 thing possible when discussing game that isn't out yet, using known facts and reports. While disagreeing with me, you're literally assuming that your assumptions are better.
|
|
Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,823 Likes: 13,454
inherit
∯ Interjector in Chief
279
0
1
13,454
Heimdall
5,823
August 2016
heimdall
Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
HeimdallX
|
Post by Heimdall on Apr 7, 2021 21:49:21 GMT
I'd advocating for fewer assumption, not different assumptions. We don't have any facts indicating there has been a total change in direction, we only know that a planned multiplayer component was canceled, according to the wording of Jason Schreier's article. Non-multiplayer live service elements may still be present for all we know.
|
|
inherit
6864
0
1,975
aglomeracja
1,178
April 2017
aglomeracja
|
Post by aglomeracja on Apr 7, 2021 23:08:36 GMT
I'd advocating for fewer assumption, not different assumptions. We don't have any facts indicating there has been a total change in direction, we only know that a planned multiplayer component was canceled, according to the wording of Jason Schreier's article. Non-multiplayer live service elements may still be present for all we know. Ok, what are live service elements that aren't tied to multiplayer? Why do you think there might be such elements despite the information that they resign from live service elements? Why do you think removing live service element is not a big change of direction despite knowing they had to reboot the whole development to include them in the first place?
|
|
bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 7,936
inherit
269
0
7,936
bshep
We destroy them or they destroy us.
4,444
August 2016
bshep
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
MasterDassJennir
1876
376
|
Post by bshep on Apr 8, 2021 0:04:08 GMT
Because you jumping from a cancelled MP element to a total restructuration inside Bioware happening without any proof. It doesn't matter how much mental gymnastics you try to apply, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
|
|
inherit
6864
0
1,975
aglomeracja
1,178
April 2017
aglomeracja
|
Post by aglomeracja on Apr 8, 2021 0:16:40 GMT
Because you jumping from a cancelled MP element to a total restructuration inside Bioware happening without any proof. It doesn't matter how much mental gymnastics you try to apply, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. > changed the project lead and studio general manager twice in 3 years > no evidence of restructurisation inside the company
|
|
Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,823 Likes: 13,454
inherit
∯ Interjector in Chief
279
0
1
13,454
Heimdall
5,823
August 2016
heimdall
Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
HeimdallX
|
Post by Heimdall on Apr 8, 2021 1:48:02 GMT
Why do you think there might be such elements despite the information that they resign from live service elements? Source for that information. The Jason Schreier article referred to multiplayer only, not live services generally. A system of updating activities and challenges over time for example would be a live service regardless if it involved multiplayer or not. All a live service really involves is an updating service intended to extend engagement in the game.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,002 Likes: 9,083
inherit
1561
0
Nov 21, 2024 20:42:13 GMT
9,083
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,002
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Apr 8, 2021 3:52:39 GMT
I'd advocating for fewer assumption, not different assumptions. We don't have any facts indicating there has been a total change in direction, we only know that a planned multiplayer component was canceled, according to the wording of Jason Schreier's article. Non-multiplayer live service elements may still be present for all we know. Ok, what are live service elements that aren't tied to multiplayer? Why do you think there might be such elements despite the information that they resign from live service elements? Why do you think removing live service element is not a big change of direction despite knowing they had to reboot the whole development to include them in the first place? Ubisoft: Origins/Odyssey/Valhalla all have live service elements for they all have an in game store where you buy gear and other bonuses that impact the single player game. On top of that they have a daily and weekly quests where you can earn a premium currency to purchase those items from the store without money. The third thing it has is seasonal "free" content that gives different objectives and tasks to earn limited time gear. All three of those things are part of Anthem, just without having multiplayer.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Apr 8, 2021 4:01:03 GMT
Ok, what are live service elements that aren't tied to multiplayer? Why do you think there might be such elements despite the information that they resign from live service elements? Why do you think removing live service element is not a big change of direction despite knowing they had to reboot the whole development to include them in the first place? Ubisoft: Origins/Odyssey/Valhalla all have live service elements for they all have an in game store where you buy gear and other bonuses that impact the single player game. On top of that they have a daily and weekly quests where you can earn a premium currency to purchase those items from the store without money. The third thing it has is seasonal "free" content that gives different objectives and tasks to earn limited time gear. All three of those things are part of Anthem, just without having multiplayer. If BioWare knows what’s good for it, they wouldn’t dare emulate the Ubisoft approach to singleplayer in Dragon Age. Ubisoft gets away with it for fuck knows why, but BioWare’s already kind of in the doghouse, and they’ll just get dragged over the coals.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,002 Likes: 9,083
inherit
1561
0
Nov 21, 2024 20:42:13 GMT
9,083
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,002
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Apr 8, 2021 5:01:31 GMT
Ubisoft: Origins/Odyssey/Valhalla all have live service elements for they all have an in game store where you buy gear and other bonuses that impact the single player game. On top of that they have a daily and weekly quests where you can earn a premium currency to purchase those items from the store without money. The third thing it has is seasonal "free" content that gives different objectives and tasks to earn limited time gear. All three of those things are part of Anthem, just without having multiplayer. If BioWare knows what’s good for it, they wouldn’t dare emulate the Ubisoft approach to singleplayer in Dragon Age. Ubisoft gets away with it for fuck knows why, but BioWare’s already kind of in the doghouse, and they’ll just get dragged over the coals. I agree, I was just trying to answer the question of "what kind of elements are live service without being tied to multiplayer". What frustrated me the most with Ubisoft is with Odyssey they were called out for their gold and experience "time savers" and with Valhalla they just waited a couple of months before adding them so there wouldn't be the pushback and they pretty much got away with it.
|
|
inherit
22
0
4,079
Blast Processor
"Why are you telling me this? I can read and draw my own conclusions." - Roach
1,456
August 2016
slotts
|
Post by Blast Processor on Apr 9, 2021 22:47:08 GMT
If BioWare knows what’s good for it, they wouldn’t dare emulate the Ubisoft approach to singleplayer in Dragon Age. Ubisoft gets away with it for fuck knows why, but BioWare’s already kind of in the doghouse, and they’ll just get dragged over the coals. I agree, I was just trying to answer the question of "what kind of elements are live service without being tied to multiplayer". What frustrated me the most with Ubisoft is with Odyssey they were called out for their gold and experience "time savers" and with Valhalla they just waited a couple of months before adding them so there wouldn't be the pushback and they pretty much got away with it. Yeah, Activision did that with the Crash Team Racing remake. Monkey see, Monkey do, I guess. Crash Team Racing launched with a loot box store, but conveniently there was no option to purchase with actual money until after the review period had pretty much ended. And they still got a pass from most, even though the store was literally already in the game, just needed to be fully enabled.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11521
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 18:48:49 GMT
A system of updating activities and challenges over time for example would be a live service regardless if it involved multiplayer or not. All a live service really involves is an updating service intended to extend engagement in the game. What single player game has activities or challenges in it? I find this very curious. You are calling balance changes, hotfixes, and patches, as live service elements, I assume? They already have names (I gave them), why do we need to append them to a new name? I don't follow this post, it seems entirely inconsistent.
|
|
Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,823 Likes: 13,454
inherit
∯ Interjector in Chief
279
0
1
13,454
Heimdall
5,823
August 2016
heimdall
Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
HeimdallX
|
Post by Heimdall on Apr 13, 2021 19:00:21 GMT
A system of updating activities and challenges over time for example would be a live service regardless if it involved multiplayer or not. All a live service really involves is an updating service intended to extend engagement in the game. What single player game has activities or challenges in it? I find this very curious. You are calling balance changes, hotfixes, and patches, as live service elements, I assume? They already have names (I gave them), why do we need to append them to a new name? I don't follow this post, it seems entirely inconsistent. Sanunes already provided some more concrete examples. In short, something like weekly or daily quests that exist in some more recent Ubisoft games would qualify.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,002 Likes: 9,083
inherit
1561
0
Nov 21, 2024 20:42:13 GMT
9,083
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,002
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Apr 13, 2021 19:04:37 GMT
A system of updating activities and challenges over time for example would be a live service regardless if it involved multiplayer or not. All a live service really involves is an updating service intended to extend engagement in the game. What single player game has activities or challenges in it? I find this very curious. You are calling balance changes, hotfixes, and patches, as live service elements, I assume? They already have names (I gave them), why do we need to append them to a new name? I don't follow this post, it seems entirely inconsistent. I don't have time for a large library of games, but Assassin's Creed: Valhalla falls into that category. Each week there are four single and one group quest for kills and other in game activities to earn in-game currency for the premium shop.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11521
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 20:36:09 GMT
That seems unnatural, I would not want such things in Dragon Age personally.
Ass Creed has all the visions and the backdrop of being some dude in a chair playing a dude disguised as another dude, so that may work for them there I dunno stopped playing after 2 I think but did enjoy those games.
|
|
inherit
Dark Helmet
1408
0
9,302
mybudgee
Fear is your only God
5,900
Sept 2, 2016 20:20:11 GMT
September 2016
mybudgee
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by mybudgee on Apr 18, 2021 17:38:27 GMT
That being said, I can see the multiplayer to be nothing more than a hacker's fest. GTA online makes billions and even they struggle to get rid of hackers. How can CDPR, a team that has limited experience with online gaming and struggled to put out a bug free game can handle it? Personally, I’d rather multiplayer just get shot and buried in a shallow grave, but I hope this gets scaled back and not that big a priority. Agreed
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11521
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 17:23:31 GMT
|
|
inherit
4588
0
Nov 18, 2024 21:21:04 GMT
3,170
therevanchist25
1,826
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
|
Post by therevanchist25 on May 7, 2021 8:48:54 GMT
Sounds like pretty much every other development studio these days.
|
|
inherit
9105
0
Aug 11, 2017 18:04:01 GMT
8,936
slimgrin727
I don't stir, I work the material.
3,661
Jul 28, 2017 17:05:24 GMT
July 2017
slimgrin727
|
Post by slimgrin727 on May 7, 2021 13:08:46 GMT
Not sure what to make of this. Konrad has been there since TW1 and was the director of TW3, so he's obviously a major talent. But it's also true there's serious internal issues at the company and if that means some people have to go, so be it.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,002 Likes: 9,083
inherit
1561
0
Nov 21, 2024 20:42:13 GMT
9,083
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,002
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on May 7, 2021 21:28:24 GMT
Not sure what to make of this. Konrad has been there since TW1 and was the director of TW3, so he's obviously a major talent. But it's also true there's serious internal issues at the company and if that means some people have to go, so be it. The problem I see with losing people at the top isn't the loss of them because people leave studios all the time. The problem is the talent that would be used to replace them has a high turnover as well if the reports are correct. So unlike BioWare when one of the known people leave there are people that have worked with them for years to fill that role, this might be people that are more inexperienced filling these leadership roles for people might last a game or two and then leave.
|
|
inherit
4588
0
Nov 18, 2024 21:21:04 GMT
3,170
therevanchist25
1,826
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
|
Post by therevanchist25 on May 10, 2021 4:14:02 GMT
Not sure what to make of this. Konrad has been there since TW1 and was the director of TW3, so he's obviously a major talent. But it's also true there's serious internal issues at the company and if that means some people have to go, so be it. The problem I see with losing people at the top isn't the loss of them because people leave studios all the time. The problem is the talent that would be used to replace them has a high turnover as well if the reports are correct. So unlike BioWare when one of the known people leave there are people that have worked with them for years to fill that role, this might be people that are more inexperienced filling these leadership roles for people might last a game or two and then leave. Well given Bioware's roaring "success" the past several titles I don't see what the difference is, honestly.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,002 Likes: 9,083
inherit
1561
0
Nov 21, 2024 20:42:13 GMT
9,083
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,002
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on May 10, 2021 5:31:32 GMT
The problem I see with losing people at the top isn't the loss of them because people leave studios all the time. The problem is the talent that would be used to replace them has a high turnover as well if the reports are correct. So unlike BioWare when one of the known people leave there are people that have worked with them for years to fill that role, this might be people that are more inexperienced filling these leadership roles for people might last a game or two and then leave. Well given Bioware's roaring "success" the past several titles I don't see what the difference is, honestly. It depends on where you see the problem with BioWare games of late. To me its more about the management side and how things were poorly management and not the content itself. So give BioWare employees better management and they can more easily go back to what they were. What is happening at CDPR there is nothing there, so if you liked The Witcher 3 and would hope some of that DNA might continue forward because the knowledge and skills were passed down you would be out of luck. I think both studios its not the people making the game, but the management that let the down with mismanagement.
|
|
inherit
4588
0
Nov 18, 2024 21:21:04 GMT
3,170
therevanchist25
1,826
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
|
Post by therevanchist25 on May 10, 2021 15:36:51 GMT
Well given Bioware's roaring "success" the past several titles I don't see what the difference is, honestly. It depends on where you see the problem with BioWare games of late. To me its more about the management side and how things were poorly management and not the content itself. So give BioWare employees better management and they can more easily go back to what they were. What is happening at CDPR there is nothing there, so if you liked The Witcher 3 and would hope some of that DNA might continue forward because the knowledge and skills were passed down you would be out of luck. I think both studios its not the people making the game, but the management that let the down with mismanagement. I mean...I think Bioware has a very serious content problem. Driving around planets for hours and hours just scanning random shit to keep the player busy is not fun, engaging content to participate in. Anthem might have had good combat mechanics, but the missions themselves were awful. The same exact thing every mission. 3 randomly selected busywork style tasks pulled from a limited pool of possible combinations. From my perspective, the only thing I recognize from the Bioware of the past, is the logo on the box, and reused familiar art assets. Bioware management has no clue what it is doing, that is painfully apparent. So while you claimed it was the opposite for CD I would definitely disagree personally. Here is the difference, Both studios tried to make games too ambitious for them to handle. 1 Studio wasted 90% of it's development cycle trying to make No Man's Sky, rather than admitting to themselves sooner that it wasn't possible and move on to their more traditional format, which they no longer had enough time to do properly. The other studio noticed they don't have enough time, cut every mechanic and feature that wasn't almost done, and focused on finishing the aspects they cared about the most, knowing the bugs could be fixed later with patches. There is a noticeable difference in approach there imo. Yes they both screwed up, but I personally don't care too much about bugs in video games anymore. They always get patched eventually. Once they do your left with the core content and ideas of the game, and for me, that's not even close, and Cyberpunk has vastly more enjoyable content and game design ideas than Andromeda. Now personally, as someone who is currently replaying Witcher 3 right now, and having just finished my 2nd Cyberpunk character, I can fairly confidently say I think Cyberpunk overall is the more enjoyable experience thus far. Witcher 3's combat is tedious and lacks variety, where in Cyberpunk I can approach a Gig in various different ways and don't even have to kill anyone to do it. I would also say that the writing quality is about the same, Witcher 3 simply has more, because the game is longer. Now don't get me wrong, if the game simply won't run on your system, I can see how you might not understand or have had the chance to judge what exactly I'm talking about. But 1.2 personally solved every issue I was having, and the game runs flawlessly for me now so I can actually just focus on the game and not keep getting annoyed by problems.
|
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,002 Likes: 9,083
inherit
1561
0
Nov 21, 2024 20:42:13 GMT
9,083
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,002
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on May 10, 2021 16:16:26 GMT
It depends on where you see the problem with BioWare games of late. To me its more about the management side and how things were poorly management and not the content itself. So give BioWare employees better management and they can more easily go back to what they were. What is happening at CDPR there is nothing there, so if you liked The Witcher 3 and would hope some of that DNA might continue forward because the knowledge and skills were passed down you would be out of luck. I think both studios its not the people making the game, but the management that let the down with mismanagement. I mean...I think Bioware has a very serious content problem. Driving around planets for hours and hours just scanning random shit to keep the player busy is not fun, engaging content to participate in. Anthem might have had good combat mechanics, but the missions themselves were awful. The same exact thing every mission. 3 randomly selected busywork style tasks pulled from a limited pool of possible combinations. From my perspective, the only thing I recognize from the Bioware of the past, is the logo on the box, and reused familiar art assets. Bioware management has no clue what it is doing, that is painfully apparent. So while you claimed it was the opposite for CD I would definitely disagree personally. Here is the difference, Both studios tried to make games too ambitious for them to handle. 1 Studio wasted 90% of it's development cycle trying to make No Man's Sky, rather than admitting to themselves sooner that it wasn't possible and move on to their more traditional format, which they no longer had enough time to do properly. The other studio noticed they don't have enough time, cut every mechanic and feature that wasn't almost done, and focused on finishing the aspects they cared about the most, knowing the bugs could be fixed later with patches. There is a noticeable difference in approach there imo. Yes they both screwed up, but I personally don't care too much about bugs in video games anymore. They always get patched eventually. Once they do your left with the core content and ideas of the game, and for me, that's not even close, and Cyberpunk has vastly more enjoyable content and game design ideas than Andromeda. Now personally, as someone who is currently replaying Witcher 3 right now, and having just finished my 2nd Cyberpunk character, I can fairly confidently say I think Cyberpunk overall is the more enjoyable experience thus far. Witcher 3's combat is tedious and lacks variety, where in Cyberpunk I can approach a Gig in various different ways and don't even have to kill anyone to do it. I would also say that the writing quality is about the same, Witcher 3 simply has more, because the game is longer. Now don't get me wrong, if the game simply won't run on your system, I can see how you might not understand or have had the chance to judge what exactly I'm talking about. But 1.2 personally solved every issue I was having, and the game runs flawlessly for me now so I can actually just focus on the game and not keep getting annoyed by problems. Your first paragraph I fully understand, but again I think it falls into the management direction of the game. Just because it was made a certain way doesn't mean that if they get someone in a leadership role that can manage the development cycle better then the last two games the people that make the content will be there. For the people making the content have no say on the direction they are told what to do and they do it. I disagree that Cyberpunk has more enjoyable content, I couldn't make it beyond a few hours before getting bored just like Andromeda and Anthem. What saved Andromeda for me was the ability to look beyond the content that I didn't like and go back to what I wanted to see in a BioWare game. I just don't see that in Cyberpunk if I could see a way to skip the content I thought was trash and just padding in Cyberpunk maybe my opinion of the game will change one day. The problem as I see it the people that worked on The Witcher 3 are gone so the way I am seeing it there isn't the people to bring the ideas and feeling forward into lets say The Witcher 4 because its a completely new group of people that might even have less development experience such as what happened with Andromeda where at one point there was the claim that the majority were new people to the industry who grew up with Mass Effect. So the experience that might be acquired through problems and working with more experienced people is not there.
|
|
inherit
4588
0
Nov 18, 2024 21:21:04 GMT
3,170
therevanchist25
1,826
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
|
Post by therevanchist25 on May 10, 2021 18:05:43 GMT
I mean...I think Bioware has a very serious content problem. Driving around planets for hours and hours just scanning random shit to keep the player busy is not fun, engaging content to participate in. Anthem might have had good combat mechanics, but the missions themselves were awful. The same exact thing every mission. 3 randomly selected busywork style tasks pulled from a limited pool of possible combinations. From my perspective, the only thing I recognize from the Bioware of the past, is the logo on the box, and reused familiar art assets. Bioware management has no clue what it is doing, that is painfully apparent. So while you claimed it was the opposite for CD I would definitely disagree personally. Here is the difference, Both studios tried to make games too ambitious for them to handle. 1 Studio wasted 90% of it's development cycle trying to make No Man's Sky, rather than admitting to themselves sooner that it wasn't possible and move on to their more traditional format, which they no longer had enough time to do properly. The other studio noticed they don't have enough time, cut every mechanic and feature that wasn't almost done, and focused on finishing the aspects they cared about the most, knowing the bugs could be fixed later with patches. There is a noticeable difference in approach there imo. Yes they both screwed up, but I personally don't care too much about bugs in video games anymore. They always get patched eventually. Once they do your left with the core content and ideas of the game, and for me, that's not even close, and Cyberpunk has vastly more enjoyable content and game design ideas than Andromeda. Now personally, as someone who is currently replaying Witcher 3 right now, and having just finished my 2nd Cyberpunk character, I can fairly confidently say I think Cyberpunk overall is the more enjoyable experience thus far. Witcher 3's combat is tedious and lacks variety, where in Cyberpunk I can approach a Gig in various different ways and don't even have to kill anyone to do it. I would also say that the writing quality is about the same, Witcher 3 simply has more, because the game is longer. Now don't get me wrong, if the game simply won't run on your system, I can see how you might not understand or have had the chance to judge what exactly I'm talking about. But 1.2 personally solved every issue I was having, and the game runs flawlessly for me now so I can actually just focus on the game and not keep getting annoyed by problems. Your first paragraph I fully understand, but again I think it falls into the management direction of the game. Just because it was made a certain way doesn't mean that if they get someone in a leadership role that can manage the development cycle better then the last two games the people that make the content will be there. For the people making the content have no say on the direction they are told what to do and they do it. I disagree that Cyberpunk has more enjoyable content, I couldn't make it beyond a few hours before getting bored just like Andromeda and Anthem. What saved Andromeda for me was the ability to look beyond the content that I didn't like and go back to what I wanted to see in a BioWare game. I just don't see that in Cyberpunk if I could see a way to skip the content I thought was trash and just padding in Cyberpunk maybe my opinion of the game will change one day. The problem as I see it the people that worked on The Witcher 3 are gone so the way I am seeing it there isn't the people to bring the ideas and feeling forward into lets say The Witcher 4 because its a completely new group of people that might even have less development experience such as what happened with Andromeda where at one point there was the claim that the majority were new people to the industry who grew up with Mass Effect. So the experience that might be acquired through problems and working with more experienced people is not there. What does this even mean my guy? The only mandatory content in Cyberpunk is the main story quests. You can literally skip everything else. Maybe you don't realize this because you barely played the game, but just like Andromeda, you can ignore most of the games content. Focusing only on the stuff you enjoy. However the objective truth remains, Cyberpunk grants a far greater variety than Andromeda, more ways to accomplish a mission. You can play the game for hours without a single person dying. That is freedom that Andromeda could never hope to have, or any Bioware game in general really. What is it in Cyberpunk you don't see? Bioware content? well you obviously aren't going to see that. Witcher 3 content? Well this might surprise you, but the game is basically Witcher 3 with wholly different presentation, and more player freedom. The NCPD missions are the stupid Points of Interest. Gigs are Witcher Contracts. Character quests are the same high level of polish and presentation as Witcher 3 and the main quest is the main quest, it's just shorter because they wanted more people to actually finish it. So frankly I don't know what the heck your talking about, and it sounds like you just don't like because it's not literally The Witcher.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
23,986
smilesja
14,548
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on May 10, 2021 18:55:12 GMT
I mean...I think Bioware has a very serious content problem. Driving around planets for hours and hours just scanning random shit to keep the player busy is not fun, engaging content to participate in. Anthem might have had good combat mechanics, but the missions themselves were awful. The same exact thing every mission. 3 randomly selected busywork style tasks pulled from a limited pool of possible combinations. From my perspective, the only thing I recognize from the Bioware of the past, is the logo on the box, and reused familiar art assets. Bioware management has no clue what it is doing, that is painfully apparent. So while you claimed it was the opposite for CD I would definitely disagree personally. Here is the difference, Both studios tried to make games too ambitious for them to handle. 1 Studio wasted 90% of it's development cycle trying to make No Man's Sky, rather than admitting to themselves sooner that it wasn't possible and move on to their more traditional format, which they no longer had enough time to do properly. The other studio noticed they don't have enough time, cut every mechanic and feature that wasn't almost done, and focused on finishing the aspects they cared about the most, knowing the bugs could be fixed later with patches. There is a noticeable difference in approach there imo. Yes they both screwed up, but I personally don't care too much about bugs in video games anymore. They always get patched eventually. Once they do your left with the core content and ideas of the game, and for me, that's not even close, and Cyberpunk has vastly more enjoyable content and game design ideas than Andromeda. Now personally, as someone who is currently replaying Witcher 3 right now, and having just finished my 2nd Cyberpunk character, I can fairly confidently say I think Cyberpunk overall is the more enjoyable experience thus far. Witcher 3's combat is tedious and lacks variety, where in Cyberpunk I can approach a Gig in various different ways and don't even have to kill anyone to do it. I would also say that the writing quality is about the same, Witcher 3 simply has more, because the game is longer. Now don't get me wrong, if the game simply won't run on your system, I can see how you might not understand or have had the chance to judge what exactly I'm talking about. But 1.2 personally solved every issue I was having, and the game runs flawlessly for me now so I can actually just focus on the game and not keep getting annoyed by problems. Your first paragraph I fully understand, but again I think it falls into the management direction of the game. Just because it was made a certain way doesn't mean that if they get someone in a leadership role that can manage the development cycle better then the last two games the people that make the content will be there. For the people making the content have no say on the direction they are told what to do and they do it. I disagree that Cyberpunk has more enjoyable content, I couldn't make it beyond a few hours before getting bored just like Andromeda and Anthem. What saved Andromeda for me was the ability to look beyond the content that I didn't like and go back to what I wanted to see in a BioWare game. I just don't see that in Cyberpunk if I could see a way to skip the content I thought was trash and just padding in Cyberpunk maybe my opinion of the game will change one day. The problem as I see it the people that worked on The Witcher 3 are gone so the way I am seeing it there isn't the people to bring the ideas and feeling forward into lets say The Witcher 4 because its a completely new group of people that might even have less development experience such as what happened with Andromeda where at one point there was the claim that the majority were new people to the industry who grew up with Mass Effect. So the experience that might be acquired through problems and working with more experienced people is not there. To be honest Cyberpunk at times does feel like a poor mans version of GTA.
|
|