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Post by Phantom on Apr 19, 2021 17:01:02 GMT
while you use some very large red flag racist statements like "civilized lawmakers" to describe people that can just easily be called law makers? I would like to report this post, but I'm not sure what to say. You speak of head canon and it being without value in this argument, yet you just applied "head canon" and loaded someone else's statement with all sorts of meaning you have 100% imagined. In my opinion this is bad faith posting and somebody needs a timeout. yes it is bad faith on gothpunkboy's part. and illusivechad, do you want popcorn? don't worry it is indoctrination free.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 19, 2021 17:06:00 GMT
I would like to report this post, but I'm not sure what to say. You speak of head canon and it being without value in this argument, yet you just applied "head canon" and loaded someone else's statement with all sorts of meaning you have 100% imagined. In my opinion this is bad faith posting and somebody needs a timeout. yes it is bad faith on gothpunkboy's part. and illusivechad, do you want popcorn? don't worry it is indoctrination free. I'll take two. 👍
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 19, 2021 17:09:42 GMT
lol what happened here? I thought people were just going to state where and how they will buy the legendary edition.
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Post by Phantom on Apr 19, 2021 17:37:43 GMT
lol what happened here? I thought people were just going to state where and how they will buy the legendary edition. Well this is BSN where everything goes downhill than the sanity of a Reaper Sleeper Agent. I am going to make a canadian bacon and pineapple pizza because I am a heretic. To Angry Marine, NOT THAT TYPE OF Heretic. No Xeno worship nor Reaper Worship here.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 19, 2021 17:44:16 GMT
lol what happened here? I thought people were just going to state where and how they will buy the legendary edition. Well this is BSN where everything goes downhill than the sanity of a Reaper Sleeper Agent. I am going to make a canadian bacon and pineapple pizza because I am a heretic. To Angry Marine, NOT THAT TYPE OF Heretic. No Xeno worship nor Reaper Worship here.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 19, 2021 17:46:54 GMT
Ah, people arguing in circles, because of bad writing. Same old, same old. No argument there. The endings are vague and we don't know where any of it is going. In Synthesis, do organics have their genetics and thinking altered in ways that might have terrible consequences down the road? Nothing has changed to make me trust the Catalyst or Reapers, since they've always maintained superiority over everything, even their creators. In Control, can we trust Reaper Shep to remain benevolent or do we ultimately get a dictator that takes out any perceived threat? It takes over "for our own good". In Destroy, do we lose too much tech to function as a galactic coalition? Does humanity de facto rule because the Citadel (once rebuilt) is in human space? Does the Citadel even function without Reaper Tech? Can turians and quarians on Earth survive without leaving the system? Is the loss of synthetic life worth this cost? Refuse is just ridiculous and not worth entertaining. It might seem like there are more negatives in Destroy than any other option. Three of the four have Reapers and one doesn't. My choice is clear. Others obviously disagree but this is where I'm at.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 19, 2021 17:49:39 GMT
Oh, come on. When you break your leg and need some metal in your leg to aid the healing process, has your DNA been changed? No, it hasn't, you just have metal parts. We're pretty vague on what happened here. If EDI is any indication, we're not looking at cyber enhancements. Instead, we're looking at a DNA rewrite. If it's anything else then we're at the same place where the synthetic/organic mix is superior to organics with some enhancements.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 19, 2021 17:56:55 GMT
lol what happened here? I thought people were just going to state where and how they will buy the legendary edition. Well this is BSN where everything goes downhill than the sanity of a Reaper Sleeper Agent. I am going to make a canadian bacon and pineapple pizza because I am a heretic. To Angry Marine, NOT THAT TYPE OF Heretic. No Xeno worship nor Reaper Worship here. *Eyes phantom with hostile intent* ... Better not.😠😉😒 *Keeps heavy bolt rifle in arms reach just incase*
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 19, 2021 18:00:57 GMT
Unless Synthesis is the ending made canon I don't expect any canon option will happen in ME5. Either they will fluff and hand-wave past it, or players will be able to pick their origin. Oh, and I'll play a digital copy on my Series X.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 19, 2021 18:02:27 GMT
I am going to make a canadian bacon and pineapple pizza
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 19, 2021 18:16:44 GMT
Unless Synthesis is the ending made canon I don't expect any canon option will happen in ME5. Either they will fluff and hand-wave past it, or players will be able to pick their origin. Oh, and I'll play a digital copy on my Series X. I do, that ending either being some sort of combination of parts of the endings and other huge choices or them unfortunately making Destroy and certain other choices canon (in which case no buy from me). I would love if players could choose their ending, but I doubt that since between them and the other huge choices I don’t see how they could make all those options good. After all they’d have to for example have one player get a game with Reapers, Geth, Quarians, Rachni, Krogan alive and everyone Synthesized while also having one where all those races are wiped out and people aren’t synthesized. Not just races but the fates of planets too, like in one state Tuchanka is experiencing a renaissance of the krogan civilization while in another it belongs to the Rachni after the krogan warred with them and lost due to the Genophage not being cured.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 19, 2021 18:49:11 GMT
I don't expect any canon option will happen in ME5. Either they will fluff and hand-wave past it, or players will be able to pick their origin. Oh, and I'll play a digital copy on my Series X. I do, that ending either being some sort of combination of parts of the endings and other huge choices or them unfortunately making Destroy and certain other choices canon (in which case no buy from me). I would love if players could choose their ending, but I doubt that since between them and the other huge choices I don’t see how they could make all those options good. After all they’d have to for example have one player get a game with Reapers, Geth, Quarians, Rachni, Krogan alive and everyone Synthesized while also having one where all those races are wiped out and people aren’t synthesized. Not just races but the fates of planets too, like in one state Tuchanka is experiencing a renaissance of the krogan civilization while in another it belongs to the Rachni after the krogan warred with them and lost due to the Genophage not being cured. Yeah I have a sneaky feeling they'll be choosing a canon one too I'd prefer t though if they could just continue withthings asthe yare but like you I don' tthink tha twill happen but Biowae rcan sa ygoodbye to my money too in that instance because I fo rsuer won' tbe byuing the nex tME either if that's the case.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Apr 19, 2021 19:00:50 GMT
Unless Synthesis is the ending made canon I don't expect any canon option will happen in ME5. Either they will fluff and hand-wave past it, or players will be able to pick their origin. Oh, and I'll play a digital copy on my Series X. I find that unlikely. There are way too many differences between each chosen outcome on ME3 for that to be true. One has dead Reapers everywhere, the other Reapers are walking and flying around and the third everyone became utopic green cyberorganic creatures. You can't simply hand-wave those huge differences.
They already tried to run away from this choice when doing Andromeda but now they are talking about a game set on the Milky Way after the trilogy.There is no way out but to chose what happened and follow from there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 19:00:58 GMT
Bit the bullet and bought a download of MELE for PC, it will be an Origin key, but purchased it from an online retailer, saving about $15 versus buying it from the Origin store [also, Origin charges the wrong sales tax for me, which apparently they are unwilling to fix, so fuck EA ].
I will keep the OT installed … out of curiosity, I may do a 20th run of the OT, with all the mod bells and whistles (ALOT, MEUITM, Recalibrated, MEHEM, EGM … maybe add Merlin to the mix) and see how it compares to MELE.
Also, depending on how the game controls work in MELE, I might get back into ME3MP using the OT version. I stopped playing it because the controls were close, but critically different from other games, it was causing hilariously incompetent muscle memory issues trying to flip back and forth between it and the other games.
DA games are enough different, it really doesn't cause issues.
If all the MELE controls are like ME3, by default, I'll be restoring muscle memory for those controls and rejoining friends in ME3MP won't be a big deal. Of course, other games will have those ridiculous muscle memory moments … oh well, at least I can provide sources of humor for others.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 19, 2021 20:51:19 GMT
You say you understand preservation and yet you don't seem to understand it.
That’s just it though: they aren’t kept the same, and they are destroyed. The reapers don’t actually reap everyone. They only use a percentage of them to create each new reaper, while the rest are wiped out or repurposed as shock troops, which is essentially the same thing. BioWare’s flimsy, simplistic writing can’t get around it. This is why past MELE, BioWare will never touch that subject again, because it’s basically narrative cooties.
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Post by Blast Processor on Apr 19, 2021 21:46:19 GMT
I might pre-order a PS4 copy from Best Buy. For some reason I'm feeling old fashioned and kinda want a physical copy. Too bad the steelbook freebie was US only. Had a lot of fun a few years ago trophy hunting the MET, specifically ME1. Looking forward to doing it all over again. Unless Synthesis is the ending made canon I don't expect any canon option will happen in ME5. Either they will fluff and hand-wave past it, or players will be able to pick their origin. Oh, and I'll play a digital copy on my Series X. Probably. That is BioWare's typical modus operandi. Though I look forward to finding out curing or not curing the Genphage had little effect on the Krogan. LOL. lol what happened here? I thought people were just going to state where and how they will buy the legendary edition. Its like the forum version of Godwin's Law. It doesn't matter what the topic is, eventually the discussion will circle back to the ME3 endings again. Haha.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 19, 2021 22:54:22 GMT
Oh, come on. When you break your leg and need some metal in your leg to aid the healing process, has your DNA been changed? No, it hasn't, you just have metal parts. We're pretty vague on what happened here. If EDI is any indication, we're not looking at cyber enhancements. Instead, we're looking at a DNA rewrite. If it's anything else then we're at the same place where the synthetic/organic mix is superior to organics with some enhancements. Of course, the reason they picked EDI as the POV character is so that they didn't have to answer questions about what it felt like to be a Synthesized human.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 19, 2021 23:46:49 GMT
You say you understand preservation and yet you don't seem to understand it.
That’s just it though: they aren’t kept the same, and they are destroyed. The reapers don’t actually reap everyone. They only use a percentage of them to create each new reaper, while the rest are wiped out or repurposed as shock troops, which is essentially the same thing. BioWare’s flimsy, simplistic writing can’t get around it. This is why past MELE, BioWare will never touch that subject again, because it’s basically narrative cooties. They are keeping it the same. The information is gathered and kept in an near immortal Reaper body so their entire history, culture and experiences are kept the same for all eternity.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 20, 2021 0:01:53 GMT
while you use some very large red flag racist statements like "civilized lawmakers" to describe people that can just easily be called law makers? I would like to report this post, but I'm not sure what to say. You speak of head canon and it being without value in this argument, yet you just applied "head canon" and loaded someone else's statement with all sorts of meaning you have 100% imagined. In my opinion this is bad faith posting and somebody needs a timeout.
Why would someone use the term civilized lawmakers? The only time I've ever seen the term civilized used in that context is to invoke racial sterotypes. The idea that certain groups are civilized and that other groups are not.
So yea please report me to the forum mods for raising en eye brow when someone randomly says "civilized law makers" in a conversation that had nothing to do with it. And uses autism as an insult.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 20, 2021 0:17:05 GMT
So are we going to argue using nothing but head canon while you use some very large red flag racist statements like "civilized lawmakers" to describe people that can just easily be called law makers? Democratically appointed official put in a position to impose widespread secular standards on medical law? Whatever you want to call such a person, I don't really keep track of the international titles and hierarchies for government officials, let alone the American ones, let alone in English, and it doesn't matter either. Clearly not every "lawmaker" on the globe would fall within the parameters of the discussion we were having before the weird tangent you suddenly went out on trying to question the idea of manmade systems and rules for no apparent reason. I couldn't care less what weird associations you have with the word 'civilized', there's nothing either racist or judgmental about it. It's an adjective. If anything, the fact that you've jumped up and assumed that it's a racist red flag is hugely racist, patronising and offensive, and I'll thank you not to project any more of your ill-conceived bullshit on me. And I'm no longer interested in resuming the conversation with you, whether you get a grip or not. Enjoy your copy of Mass Effect: Legendary Edition when it comes out. You call them law makers. It is a universal term for people who create laws. Civilized has no reason to be in the statement. And after you use autism as an insult it is pretty well reasonable to question your intention.
Literally racists called Native Americans (primarily but not exlusivly) savage because they didn't behave and think like "civilized" people.
Indeed civilized is simply a word. But how that word is used is very important. Ass and Hole are just nouns words to. But if I said ass hole to by boss I'd probably be fired.
So are we allowed to use just head canon like you seem to be or do we stick to known hard facts?
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Post by Radec on Apr 20, 2021 0:32:42 GMT
You say you understand preservation and yet you don't seem to understand it.
That’s just it though: they aren’t kept the same, and they are destroyed. The reapers don’t actually reap everyone. They only use a percentage of them to create each new reaper, while the rest are wiped out or repurposed as shock troops, which is essentially the same thing. BioWare’s flimsy, simplistic writing can’t get around it. This is why past MELE, BioWare will never touch that subject again, because it’s basically narrative cooties. The idea that the unnecessarily brutal body horror method the Reapers used to liquefy people was somehow a form of data collection was an insanely retarded 9th hour asspull that wasn't thought about very much. It's a bit like claiming that you're preserving the essence of Pig by grinding it up into hotdog. The hotdog, by itself, can't even give you enough information to have a remote idea what the pig looked like, nevermind its behavior, culture or evolutionary history. You'd gain way more data on humanity simply by archiving Wikipedia, Reddit, and maybe the porn sites. Making them into paste tells you nothing of note about them. The Reapers don't even preserve all the cultures the way a wiki article would. Plenty of colony worlds just get exterminatus'd by them if you fly around in ME3 and read the descriptions. Those colonies had unique histories and cultures that would've imbued the individuals with unique experiences. Guess they weren't worth preserving or whatever. Then there's the fact they don't even preserve all the species. If you help the geth get Reaper code the quarians are just killed entirely, not Reap'd. Nothing remains of them and they'll presumably be lost to history forever. This is what would've happened to them anyway when the Reapers interfered for no logical reason to help the geth, had the Normandy not been sent to help them. Why did the Reapers do that? If I were the Catalyst I'd probably want the annoying suit rats Reaped more than anyone else in the cycle, seeing as they're the only organics that built and then warred with the AI's en masse. They'd probably have more data to contribute to my goofy solution than anyone else in this cycle. Just let them kill the bots, then come and reap their dumb asses when they settle on the planet (abandoning their society's one advantage over the others at the dumbest possible time). Nope let's just upgrade some slave robots I don't care about to vaporize them hahah. Gonna harvest these primitive turtle people that don't know shit about AI's instead kek. I am a very smart Reaper AI.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 20, 2021 1:21:42 GMT
Radec As EDI surmises, there aren’t enough Quarians left to harvest into a Reaper. They only have 17 million people across the galaxy according to the lore. And we know to make a Reaper, especially a Dreadnought like you’re suggesting, they need far more than that (after all even all the colonies of humanity wouldn’t be enough and the Collectors would have to hit Earth.) As for helping the Geth, my guess is that the Geth are a replacement plan for the Keepers. The Keepers have proven to be a point of weakness that delayed this harvest, so the Reapers are going with a race they see as able to serve that role better. As for the rest, culture itself can be preserved by documenting the races’s civilizations before they are harvested (it’s how we know about past cultures that have been wiped out after all, especially ones that didn’t have systems of writing) and things like genetics you could absolutely tell a lot about that pig by analyzing the DNA in the hotdog (you could clone the body of that pig from that hotdog). For their computer minds, a combination of those two things is enough to preserve the races. Not the individuals absolutely, but then preserving individuals was not part of the mandate the Leviathans gave the Intelligence (understandable since they didn’t really care about individuals either). Edit: Even then, the individuals harvested into the Reapers seem to exist in some form, like when Legion said the “programs” within Sovereign called themselves Nazara. Probably the name of the race that was harvested to create him. Reminds me of the Philosopher’s Stones in FMAB.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 20, 2021 1:21:58 GMT
Why would someone use the term civilized lawmakers? I guess to make a distinction between lawmakers, #NotAllLawmakers, to separate from ancient lawmakers or lawmakers that don't understand or misuse/manipulate the law in an uncivil manner. Like in dictatorships or tribal societies. It doesn't hurt to make the distinction, at least. Basically, to establish a basis with which kind of lawmaking we consider as our basis. Basically, not the kind of lawmaking that sentences all offenses or political discourse to the death penalty, like this guy, who inspired the phrase "draconian measures". Not to be confused with the D&D setting of Dragonlance's Draconians. We're not talking about that kind of lawmaking. Maybe it is redundant, but hardly harmful.
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Post by Radec on Apr 20, 2021 3:21:53 GMT
Radec As EDI surmises, there aren’t enough Quarians left to harvest into a Reaper. They only have 17 million people across the galaxy according to the lore. And we know to make a Reaper, especially a Dreadnought like you’re suggesting, they need far more than that (after all even all the colonies of humanity wouldn’t be enough and the Collectors would have to hit Earth.) As for helping the Geth, my guess is that the Geth are a replacement plan for the Keepers. The Keepers have proven to be a point of weakness that delayed this harvest, so the Reapers are going with a race they see as able to serve that role better. As for the rest, culture itself can be preserved by documenting the races’s civilizations before they are harvested (it’s how we know about past cultures that have been wiped out after all, especially ones that didn’t have systems of writing) and things like genetics you could absolutely tell a lot about that pig by analyzing the DNA in the hotdog (you could clone the body of that pig from that hotdog). For their computer minds, a combination of those two things is enough to preserve the races. Not the individuals absolutely, but then preserving individuals was not part of the mandate the Leviathans gave the Intelligence (understandable since they didn’t really care about individuals either). Edit: Even then, the individuals harvested into the Reapers seem to exist in some form, like when Legion said the “programs” within Sovereign called themselves Nazara. Probably the name of the race that was harvested to create him. Reminds me of the Philosopher’s Stones in FMAB. When she discusses with Tali on the ship? She's talking about why there aren't quarian husks (essentially because they live on ships and don't put enough of themselves in position to get huskified), not anything about how many are required to make a Reaper. We aren't ever given a number on that, beyond the drell population (300k) not being enough. Were that the issue I think Harbinger would've used a similar line to the Drell. Instead, he seems more interested in the quarian than anyone but the humans. And while it may seem this way in 2, by 3 we can't excuse it by saying they only planned to harvest humans because they're harvesting everyone. The quarian should be prime targets for their form of "data collection". Really the only target, actually, given their supposed purpose. Instead they upgrade the geth to wipe out the quarian. They also send a destroyer to poison the Tuchanka atmosphere via the shroud to kill all the krogan for some reason, but yeah they're the good guys and acktually there to preserve organics (despite plenty of evidence of them doing exactly the opposite). Also lets send the giant robot ship full of organic slushie into battle every 50k years where it can get killed by a fleet of organics, a 37 million year old mass accelerator cannon, a thresher maw, another fleet of organics, a big mind controlling cuttlefish, a small tank with missiles on it (just to name, chronologically, the ones that we get to literally see wiped out onscreen in the trilogy, to say nothing of the dozen others taken out offscreeen in the codex and correspondence of ME3). Then that race (and all its "data", whatever that is) gets to be lost forever I guess. Could have just put the slushie in a big tank in darkspace and used disposable bots to do the harvest. Guess the glowkid super AI wasn't smart enough to think of that one. Except it did it the first cycle on Leviathan, then forgot I guess. It's like peeling the layers of an onion. An onion of poor writing decisions compounding upon one another.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 20, 2021 3:36:28 GMT
Radec As EDI surmises, there aren’t enough Quarians left to harvest into a Reaper. They only have 17 million people across the galaxy according to the lore. And we know to make a Reaper, especially a Dreadnought like you’re suggesting, they need far more than that (after all even all the colonies of humanity wouldn’t be enough and the Collectors would have to hit Earth.) As for helping the Geth, my guess is that the Geth are a replacement plan for the Keepers. The Keepers have proven to be a point of weakness that delayed this harvest, so the Reapers are going with a race they see as able to serve that role better. As for the rest, culture itself can be preserved by documenting the races’s civilizations before they are harvested (it’s how we know about past cultures that have been wiped out after all, especially ones that didn’t have systems of writing) and things like genetics you could absolutely tell a lot about that pig by analyzing the DNA in the hotdog (you could clone the body of that pig from that hotdog). For their computer minds, a combination of those two things is enough to preserve the races. Not the individuals absolutely, but then preserving individuals was not part of the mandate the Leviathans gave the Intelligence (understandable since they didn’t really care about individuals either). Edit: Even then, the individuals harvested into the Reapers seem to exist in some form, like when Legion said the “programs” within Sovereign called themselves Nazara. Probably the name of the race that was harvested to create him. Reminds me of the Philosopher’s Stones in FMAB. When she discusses with Tali on the ship? She's talking about why there aren't quarian husks (essentially because they live on ships and don't put enough of themselves in position to get huskified), not anything about how many are required to make a Reaper. We aren't ever given a number on that, beyond the drell population (300k) not being enough. Were that the issue I think Harbinger would've used a similar line to the Drell. Instead, he seems more interested in the quarian than anyone but the humans. And while it may seem this way in 2, by 3 we can't excuse it by saying they only planned to harvest humans because they're harvesting everyone. The quarian should be prime targets for their form of "data collection". Really the only target, actually, given their supposed purpose. Instead they upgrade the geth to wipe out the quarian. They also send a destroyer to poison the Tuchanka atmosphere via the shroud to kill all the krogan for some reason, but yeah they're the good guys and acktually there to preserve organics (despite plenty of evidence of them doing exactly the opposite). Also lets send the giant robot ship full of organic slushie into battle every 50k years where it can get killed by a fleet of organics, a 37 million year old mass accelerator cannon, a thresher maw, another fleet of organics, a big mind controlling cuttlefish, a small tank with missiles on it (just to name, chronologically, the ones that we get to literally see wiped out onscreen in the trilogy, to say nothing of the dozen others taken out offscreeen in the codex and correspondence of ME3). Then that race (and all its "data", whatever that is) gets to be lost forever I guess. Could have just put the slushie in a big tank in darkspace and used disposable bots to do the harvest. Guess the glowkid super AI wasn't smart enough to think of that one. Except it did it the first cycle on Leviathan, then forgot I guess. It's like peeling the layers of an onion. An onion of poor writing decisions compounding upon one another. Fair enough on the Quarians. I don't remember hearing those Harbinger lines. As for sending the Reapers out, I have ideas that address that but I admit they are just hypotheses on my part as I played the games so don't want to say them as fact.
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