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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 26, 2021 16:15:52 GMT
I really was hoping for a flood of new accounts, but I think without MP it will not attract people to forums. People can get what they need about these games from the wiki or EA Help just as well as from here, with a little less wading through of the extraneous.
These games were designed to be single player. Even ME3 started out that way and it was Riccitiello's idea to slap on MP in the last minute. From all I hear, ME:LE sold pretty well, which is a good sign, since it shows there is still a solid segment of the market into that kind of game(s). It also seems that Bioware is going back to it's roots, with the announcement of DA4 not having MP attached. Personally I'm glad over this decision, because I liked the Bioware of old with it's stories and characters and not the superficial one of late with products like ME:A or Anthem. Except MEA was an improvement on Mass Effect in terms of writing, characters, choices, romance, and all the other BioWare staples.
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Post by abaris on May 26, 2021 16:24:01 GMT
Except MEA was an improvement on Mass Effect in terms of writing, characters, choices, romance, and all the other BioWare staples.
That's obviously in the eye of the beholder. It wasn't for me and for a lot of other people. Otherwise it wouldn't have been scrapped, three or four months after release.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 26, 2021 16:44:16 GMT
Except MEA was an improvement on Mass Effect in terms of writing, characters, choices, romance, and all the other BioWare staples.
That's obviously in the eye of the beholder. It wasn't for me and for a lot of other people. Otherwise it wouldn't have been scrapped, three or four months after release.
Actually I was speaking objectively. For example the characters are objectively better because they actually experience an arc and have growth as opposed to being stagnant like in the trilogy (other than each game going “oh, they’re this now”). Classic case of show vs tell.
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Post by abaris on May 26, 2021 16:46:24 GMT
Actually I was speaking objectively. For example the characters are objectively better because they actually experience an arc and have growth as opposed to being stagnant like in the trilogy (other than each game going “oh, they’re this now”). Classic case of show vs tell.
Noone speaks objectively. You liked it, good. The majority didn't like it and that's why they abandoned it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 26, 2021 16:49:26 GMT
Actually I was speaking objectively. For example the characters are objectively better because they actually experience an arc and have growth as opposed to being stagnant like in the trilogy (other than each game going “oh, they’re this now”). Classic case of show vs tell.
Noone speaks objectively. You liked it, good. The majority didn't like it and that's why they abandoned it.
People can absolutely speak objectively. There are objective facts in the world. Meanwhile you are resorting to fallacies.
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Post by dragontartare on May 26, 2021 21:26:00 GMT
And that's where you're wrong, in my opinion. The average player age today, according to studies, is somewhere in the mid 30ies. Kids may play these games, but I daresay, they're not the main group playing ME:LE. As you rightfully explained, they're into MP, so they can play with their friends. I was 45 when Mass Effect first came out, now I'm in my late 50ies and I still love what Mass Effect has to offer in terms of role playing and in terms of replayability. I'm pretty sure, most players are already past the kid age with these games, because kids are simply not interested in that kind of stuff. The graphics although remastered, are aged, as are the effects and the story. The shooter elements are outright antiquated, going by today's shooters. So you're talking about a group that's certainly not the target audience and never have been with Bioware's games. What's more, the Mass Effect series was rated M right from the beginning. However, I don't think the mid-30s crowd are the "new MELE players." That crowd has played ME before... many "grew up" with it. The new players I'm seeing streaming it seem to be mostly in their late teens and early 20s. I don't understand why you assume that 30-somethings (or older, I guess) must have played ME before. I played it for the first time just a few years ago, and I was already in my 30's, and even then it was only because I managed to get ME2 for free. If I hadn't, Legendary Edition may have encouraged me to finally try the series. Streamers are a different crowd who tend to skew younger regardless. I was hoping that BSN members who had only played Dragon Age might have decided to give ME a try with the release of Legendary Edition. I think that would have been the most common type of new player we would have seen here. Maybe they are around, but just not showing themselves.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 22:19:24 GMT
However, I don't think the mid-30s crowd are the "new MELE players." That crowd has played ME before... many "grew up" with it. The new players I'm seeing streaming it seem to be mostly in their late teens and early 20s. I don't understand why you assume that 30-somethings (or older, I guess) must have played ME before. I played it for the first time just a few years ago, and I was already in my 30's, and even then it was only because I managed to get ME2 for free. If I hadn't, Legendary Edition may have encouraged me to finally try the series. Streamers are a different crowd who tend to skew younger regardless. I was hoping that BSN members who had only played Dragon Age might have decided to give ME a try with the release of Legendary Edition. I think that would have been the most common type of new player we would have seen here. Maybe they are around, but just not showing themselves. Do you think most mid-30s RPG games haven't played ME before or most mid-20s RPG gamers haven't played ME before? I didn't say there weren't exceptions... as I said about myself, I didn't get into videogaming until I was much older than 30, but I'm not in the average metric. I also don't think most RPG gaming streamers are in their 20s. Overall, I know of more that are in their are in their 40s and 50s than I do of ones that are in their 20s The equipment to get into it is rather expensive... at least my one son has spent quite a bit on it (and no, he doesn't stream ME, although he has played it through multiple times). The 30-something and above streamers that are streaming ME are not the ones indicating that it's their first playthorugh of the game, however... so that's why I believe the "new" ones are in their 20s.
Forums are becoming less popular... Bethesda is even now shutting down theirs and others that I read have gotten much less active in the last year... at a time when I originally thought they should be getting more active because of covid. However, I'm not a corporation that measures all of it... these are just personal impressions and my personal take on why this thread in particular is not active.
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Post by dragontartare on May 26, 2021 23:59:13 GMT
Do you think most mid-30s RPG games haven't played ME before or most mid-20s RPG gamers haven't played ME before? I asked why you think most of them have played ME before. You were the one making a claim. I'm asking why you think this.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 0:30:00 GMT
Do you think most mid-30s RPG games haven't played ME before or most mid-20s RPG gamers haven't played ME before? I asked why you think most of them have played ME before. You were the one making a claim. I'm asking why you think this. As I said... the 30+ streamers I see are not the ones saying they are on first playthorughs (or blind playthroughs). The 20ish streamers I've seen are the ones who are making that claim. You're assuming most streamers are 20-somethings. I disagree because I personally know more who are clearly 30-something and older. I'm making a personal observation... that's why I said "I think." Bioware would, I think, consult with a corporation who tracks such metrics. I don't know what access the people running this forum have to that sort of information. I'm not "claiming" anything beyond a personal observation and opinion. To flip your question back on you... why are you assuming the opposite of what I am?
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Post by dawnold on May 27, 2021 0:31:30 GMT
I haven't played MET yet; MEA is my entry into the series. Not sure which class and background to pick. Do the classes work like they do in MEA? I'm planning to start on insanity so I need the strongest build for someone with low accuracy. Mea's vanguard fit my skill level for the most part, I also liked infiltrator but my accuracy is poor so I wasting cloak 50% of the time. I heard sole survivor + spacer gives the most content across the trilogy -I want to see as much as possible on my 1st playthru- but what's your take on that?
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Post by colfoley on May 27, 2021 0:34:57 GMT
Maybe apprepro to the current conversation saw Oxhorn started playing it a couple of days ago and while I have a bad time judging ages I would think he would be mid to late 30s.
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Post by dragontartare on May 27, 2021 0:48:51 GMT
To flip your question back on you... why are you assuming the opposite of what I am? There are tons of RPGs out there, so even if we restrict this just to RPG players, I don't see why "most" above a certain age must have already played ME. That's all I was asking. I think you're making this out to be more than it is. I haven't played MET yet; MEA is my entry into the series. Not sure which class and background to pick. Do the classes work like they do in MEA? I'm planning to start on insanity so I need the strongest build for someone with low accuracy. Mea's vanguard fit my skill level for the most part, I also liked infiltrator but my accuracy is poor so I wasting cloak 50% of the time. I heard sole survivor + spacer gives the most content across the trilogy -I want to see as much as possible on my 1st playthru- but what's your take on that? Yay! A new player! I can sort of see a way in which spacer would give more content than the other origins, though it's just a bit. In ME1, all of the origins have a special little side mission to do. Can't help with classes, because I'm partial to Engineer and that's the least popular of all, I believe. Best of luck, though!
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Post by Element Zero on May 27, 2021 2:53:45 GMT
I really was hoping for a flood of new accounts, but I think without MP it will not attract people to forums. People can get what they need about these games from the wiki or EA Help just as well as from here, with a little less wading through of the extraneous.
These games were designed to be single player. Even ME3 started out that way and it was Riccitiello's idea to slap on MP in the last minute. From all I hear, ME:LE sold pretty well, which is a good sign, since it shows there is still a solid segment of the market into that kind of game(s). It also seems that Bioware is going back to it's roots, with the announcement of DA4 not having MP attached. Personally I'm glad over this decision, because I liked the Bioware of old with it's stories and characters and not the superficial one of late with products like ME:A or Anthem. I actually just watched a video interview on which Mac said multiplayer was a goal for each game. According to Mac, with Me1 they decided they really needed to just focus on the core elements of choice and story. Given its poor mechanics, I'm relieved. A ME1 with MP might've sunk the franchise from the outset. With ME2, they again decided the MP component wasn't compelling enough, and decided to just polish the game. They finally added it with ME3, and by all accounts did a good job with it. The idea that MP was on the table for the original game surprised me. It was a cool video. There were several tidbits I'd never heard, despite being BSNer since before Mass Effect, and a huge devotee of the series. I think it was an IGN MELE pre-launch video, but I can't recall for certain.
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Post by colfoley on May 27, 2021 3:06:57 GMT
These games were designed to be single player. Even ME3 started out that way and it was Riccitiello's idea to slap on MP in the last minute. From all I hear, ME:LE sold pretty well, which is a good sign, since it shows there is still a solid segment of the market into that kind of game(s). It also seems that Bioware is going back to it's roots, with the announcement of DA4 not having MP attached. Personally I'm glad over this decision, because I liked the Bioware of old with it's stories and characters and not the superficial one of late with products like ME:A or Anthem. I actually just watched a video interview on which Mac said multiplayer was a goal for each game. According to Mac, with Me1 they decided they really needed to just focus on the core elements of choice and story. Given its poor mechanics, I'm relieved. A ME1 with MP might've sunk the franchise from the outside. With ME2, they again decided the MP component wasn't compelling enough, and decided to just polish the game. They finally addee it with ME3, and by all accounts did a good job with it. The idea that MP was on the table for the original game surprised me. It was a cool video. There were several tidbits I'd never heard, despite being BSNer since before Mass Effect, and a huge devotee of the series. I think it was an IGN MELE pre-launch video, but I can't recall for certain. This does lend some credence to the whole idea of BioWare having MP as a nice add on at the end of production, so its removal might not effect certain games that should be releasing soon.
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Post by Element Zero on May 27, 2021 3:21:53 GMT
I haven't played MET yet; MEA is my entry into the series. Not sure which class and background to pick. Do the classes work like they do in MEA? I'm planning to start on insanity so I need the strongest build for someone with low accuracy. Mea's vanguard fit my skill level for the most part, I also liked infiltrator but my accuracy is poor so I wasting cloak 50% of the time. I heard sole survivor + spacer gives the most content across the trilogy -I want to see as much as possible on my 1st playthru- but what's your take on that? The first game plays dramatically differently than MEA. As you progress through the trilogy, you'll see the gameplay evolve in that direction. ME1 has a lot of old school RPG elements, like skills needed for "lockpicking" (in this setting, it's Decryption and Electronics). Some classes have those, allowing you to manage it on your own. Others don't, meaning you'll need to take along a squadmate who has those skills.(There are three such squaddies.) There are also Charm and Intimidate skills that require investment to unlock those Paragon/Renegade dialogue options. (So primitive, I know. 😆 This game is old.) Certain classes can train to be especially effective with certain weapons; and only the Soldier can learn to wear heavy armor. It doesn't sound like you're looking to be a gun specialist; so Soldier probably isn't for you. The "combination classes" allow you to combine features from main classes as follows: Infiltrator lets you train Medium Armor; gain some useful survival abilities from the Soldier; train Electronics and Decryption; and specialize with Pistols and Sniper Rifles. (Note: Tactical Cloak arrived in ME2.) Vanguard lets you train Medium Armor; gain some useful survival abilities; train some biotic powers like Lift, Throw, Barrier, etc...; and specialize with Pistols and Shotguns. (Note: Biotic Charge didn't exist until ME2; and it didn't become a super-power until ME3.) Sentinel lets you steal heavily from both Engineer and Adept. These classes are masters of debuffing enemies and trivializing combat, respectively. Sentinels can get nearly all their best tools, and is (arguably) the best class in my opinion. You can't specialize in any particular weapon, though you'll get minor boosts to Pistols. That said, you can do just fine with baseline weapon usage. You can instead spend those skill points to decrypt and hack your own way into every locked item. You can use the best biotic abilities to send enemies airborne or become practically untouchable within a Barrier. You can freeze nearly any foe in Stasis and kill them before they get a chance to fight back. By mid-levels, Sentinels can dominate any situation. I like Sentinel a lot, but any class will be fun. All of the above will evolve into more familiar forms in ME2 and ME3. Also, as you use your skills and those of your squadmates, you'll unlock trophies/achievements. These will permanently make available the corresponding skills as selections for a "bonus power" on all subsequent Shepards. Pretty cool incentive to play more than once. For instance, my favorite way to play an Adept is to play a Vanguard with Singularity as bonus power.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 27, 2021 3:42:35 GMT
I don't know what Bioware expected. Really, this is the $10,000,000.00 question. The big mystery. Unless this game has a significant number of new players playing it, there is no win here other than a little easy cash. If that was the actual goal, and what Bioware expected - I guess that's sensible from a business perspective. Take the easy win. From a creative standpoint, that's a pretty disappointing goal/expectation, imo. It also potentially leaves the future game in a state of un-hype.
I really was hoping for a flood of new accounts, but I think without MP it will not attract people to forums. People can get what they need about these games from the wiki or EA Help just as well as from here, with a little less wading through of the extraneous.
...
Hello new players, if you have any troubleshooting issues with the PC version of the game, I am happy to help as I have experienced many issues myself over time and have been able to resolve all of them. Sometimes with assistance from users here like crashsuit . Even Brian Johnson will still help players with account issues even after all this time.
In short, we would love to talk Mass Effect with you, and I hope you loved the MELE experience and want more Not sure it would deflate hype for the next game. I think ME3’s ending and Andromeda saw to the loss of luster anyway. I think for the most part, it’s a pretty good way to boost interest in the IP to prepare for the next game, and get that sweet stopgap money.
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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on May 27, 2021 4:17:07 GMT
I really was hoping for a flood of new accounts, but I think without MP it will not attract people to forums.
... Could it have, though? To me, we are like that secret community that are here and everyone outside is unaware of the existence. I don't see talks about the forums anywhere outside here, plus most of the folks here are from the original one. Some have moved on and such, but back then, even new copies of Bioware's games and their social media talked about the old BSN. Also, it's not like a question from a 10 year old trilogy couldn't be answered by taking 2 minutes to google.
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Post by larsdt on May 27, 2021 4:41:59 GMT
I haven't played MET yet; MEA is my entry into the series. Not sure which class and background to pick. Do the classes work like they do in MEA? I'm planning to start on insanity so I need the strongest build for someone with low accuracy. Mea's vanguard fit my skill level for the most part, I also liked infiltrator but my accuracy is poor so I wasting cloak 50% of the time. I heard sole survivor + spacer gives the most content across the trilogy -I want to see as much as possible on my 1st playthru- but what's your take on that? I'm sure a lot of ppl here envy you - being able to experience the MET for the 1st time. The answer is a bit complicated; while the story part remains mostly the same (interactions via the dialogue wheel), combat varies greatly between the 3 games. Example: Biotic/tech combos are not a part of ME1. They are introduced in ME2 but more of a gimmick imo. In ME3 you can deliver the majority of your damage from combos if you wish. While certain powers have the same name through the series, their effects can be different and nerfed/buffed. You are restricted to one class but you can switch classes between games without negative consequences. Weapon specs have been changed in MELE but the RPG remains: You start with low tier weapons which can be upgraded or replaced with better version as you progress. Now for the difference maker: In the MET, you can pause the game and take direct control of your squadmates. Any time you like, as often as you like during combat. See for yourself how useful it is to you. Maybe combat feel less fluent or it's a life saver in critical situations - personal preference. My 2 cents: Biotics are immensely powerful in ME1 even without combos. Some argue the are grossly overpowered. Lift and Singularity can immobilize even the strongest bosses when upgraded, so I would go with the Adept in ME1. For ME2, I would choose the Sentinel class, great powers against both shields and armor and quite tanky. In ME3 you get to return to the Vanguard class. Just some food for thought - point is use powers if you're no headshot machine. There is a ton of other nitty gritty details like Shield Gate, Sync kills, Right Hand Advantage etc. but no need to bother with that for now. Time to save the Milky Way, N7
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Post by larsdt on May 27, 2021 5:09:33 GMT
I really was hoping for a flood of new accounts, but I think without MP it will not attract people to forums. ... Could it have, though? To me, we are like that secret community that are here and everyone outside is unaware of the existence. I don't see talks about the forums anywhere outside here, plus most of the folks here are from the original one. Some have moved on and such, but back then, even new copies of Bioware's games and their social media talked about the old BSN. Also, it's not like a question from a 10 year old trilogy couldn't be answered by taking 2 minutes to google. We may think too highly of ourselves at times; as devoted Bioware fans, we should have a say in any decision the company makes. We may number around 10.000 but games are sold in the millions. 10.000 gamers don't change the numbers in EA's account books by any significant margin.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 12:08:39 GMT
To flip your question back on you... why are you assuming the opposite of what I am? There are tons of RPGs out there, so even if we restrict this just to RPG players, I don't see why "most" above a certain age must have already played ME. That's all I was asking. I think you're making this out to be more than it is. I haven't played MET yet; MEA is my entry into the series. Not sure which class and background to pick. Do the classes work like they do in MEA? I'm planning to start on insanity so I need the strongest build for someone with low accuracy. Mea's vanguard fit my skill level for the most part, I also liked infiltrator but my accuracy is poor so I wasting cloak 50% of the time. I heard sole survivor + spacer gives the most content across the trilogy -I want to see as much as possible on my 1st playthru- but what's your take on that? Yay! A new player! I can sort of see a way in which spacer would give more content than the other origins, though it's just a bit. In ME1, all of the origins have a special little side mission to do. Can't help with classes, because I'm partial to Engineer and that's the least popular of all, I believe. Best of luck, though! Most I've seen... Again, why did you even question it... I'm stating a personal opinion extrapolated from a personal observation. Most, I've seen, who are indicating that this is their first playthrough of ME are20ish. Most I've seen over 30 are stating or otherwise indicating that they've played it before. You've not yet answered the same question put back to you. Why do you think I'm necessarily wrong? Do you have access to a metric?... or is it your personal opinion also extrapolated from your personal experience... which is just different than mine?
It's not a big dea... but am I not allowed to state my personal opinions here on this forum?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 12:26:34 GMT
I haven't played MET yet; MEA is my entry into the series. Not sure which class and background to pick. Do the classes work like they do in MEA? I'm planning to start on insanity so I need the strongest build for someone with low accuracy. Mea's vanguard fit my skill level for the most part, I also liked infiltrator but my accuracy is poor so I wasting cloak 50% of the time. I heard sole survivor + spacer gives the most content across the trilogy -I want to see as much as possible on my 1st playthru- but what's your take on that? Each game's combat is unique to each game in at least some ways. ME:A was the first game that allowed players to effectively change their class on the fly (Profiles). In the Trilogy, you will be more locked into the class you select at the start of each game. I don't know yet with LE, but with the old versions, you could always change your class when impporting Shepard into the next game though. If you liked Vangard in ME:A, you'll probably find vanguard in ME2 and ME3 similar. ME1 Vanguard, however, does not have a Charge power, so that one plays a bit differently than the other 3. With the changes, however, they made. the ME1LE vanguard is no longer limited to using pistols and shotguns.. none of the ME1 classes are limited to specific weapons anymore. However, ME2 does limit weapons usage based on individual class.
The various backgrounds all give about the same amount of content in ME1. They do give different starting boost to paragon and renegade. For example... Spacer/War Hero gives 20 points to paragon at the start, Colonist/Sole Survivor gives 10 points to paragon and 10 to renegade, and Earthborn/Ruthless gives 20 points to renegade. Other combinations give less. Spacer/Ruthless gives only 10 renegade points. Spacer, Colonist, and Earthborn all have one side quest directed just to them. Each one can only do their own and not the ones for the other two, but the overall content amount is similar for each. War Hero, Sole Survivor and Ruthless also have individual quests, but unlike the background ones, all three can be done by any of them and the dialogue just changes a little bit with each. There is a slight bit of different content for the engineer in ME3 (but it's not a whole lot - an additional dialogue and interrupt). The Spacer does also get one additional conversation in ME3.
I would suggest (my opinion only) to play whichever background story you find most interesting from the description given in ME1... and above all else, enjoy your playthrough your way.
Welcome to the forums.
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Post by dragontartare on May 28, 2021 1:59:08 GMT
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Post by abaris on May 28, 2021 10:07:58 GMT
We may think too highly of ourselves at times; as devoted Bioware fans, we should have a say in any decision the company makes. We may number around 10.000 but games are sold in the millions. 10.000 gamers don't change the numbers in EA's account books by any significant margin.
There are certain game companies who's products are bought for specific reasons. Bioware has been the master of RPGs in the past. They deviated from that path with Anthem at the latest and money seems to have done the talking some 10.000 players could not. By all indications, they're about to make a turnaround. Starting with ME:LE and over to the announcement that DA4 will be a single player game and certainly not following the games as a service model.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on May 29, 2021 22:45:15 GMT
I don't think you should overthink the lack of new people here too much, they just frequent new places like Twitch or Youtube to talk about games. I've introduced 5 people to Dragon Age the past years, all of them loved the game and none felt inclined to interact with the forum. I suspect those of us who post quite a bit here started with forums during the time when that was the best (and sometimes only) way to find like-minded people easily to discuss with.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 31, 2021 9:14:37 GMT
To me, we are like that secret community that are here and everyone outside is unaware of the existence. I don't see talks about the forums anywhere outside here, plus most of the folks here are from the original one. Some have moved on and such, but back then, even new copies of Bioware's games and their social media talked about the old BSN. It's possible that the concept of the 'forum' is less of a thing than it once was. We are comfortably the second 'Mass Effect forum' on google behind the 'official' EA site (though we are significantly more active). And comfortably the #1 Dragon Age forum. But are 'forums' a little more traditional? That said, only 3% of site visitors have signed up for posting 'membership' so the site has a huge readership who visit the site and enjoy it's shenanigans without commenting and that's fine.
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