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Post by catcher on May 3, 2021 17:29:12 GMT
The idea for this topic sprung out of some discussion in Schmooples' Den (starting around frame 422 with a find by necrowaif towards the bottom). To wit: given that it seems there will be a new Protagonist for DA4 (though not a absolute), what kind of role can/should the Inquisitor and the Inquisition play in DA4? Among other questions, this includes, should the Inquisitor put in a guest appearance during one or more quests as Hawke did in DA:I? If so, how would you improve the interaction since that seems to have turned some people off? Or maybe it's not possible and the Inquisitor should be mostly or fully off-camera like the living Hero of Ferelden was in DA:I? Do you have an idea of a better way than either of these to get an Inquisitor personally involved? What role should surviving Inquisition members play (if any) in DA4? We can be relatively sure Dorian and Varric are involved somehow and I doubt Divine Victoria will be entirely silent, but how and who else? How should key decisions of the Inquisitor from Tresspasser impact or even be incumbent on a DA4 Protagonist? There are two particular inflection points I can think of but I'm glad for other to discuss more: whether the Inquisitor chooses to try to redeem or focus on stopping Fen'harel and whether the Inquisition is dissolved or reduced under the Divine. Now that I've asked a bunch of questions, you knew I was going to have some ideas I like didn't you?  A little historical metaphor, during World War 2, the western allies executed multiple plans to deceive Axis forces as to where they would be landing to open a crucial second front. One of these plans codenamed fortitude South involved the famously capable and prickly General George Patton who was announced as the leader of a new (fake) Army group in England. Patton appeared in several places around where this fictional Army group was supposed to be concentrating along with fake tanks, camps, landing craft, radio transmissions, and a few real units not slated for the real landing. The point of this little historical aside is that I see the Inquisitor and Inquisition in the DA version of a Fortitude-like mission. Fen'Harel has many agents and advantages, but he is not omniscient or even close (he admits he only found out about Dragon's Breath when his agents encountered Qunari agents that had infiltrated the Inquisition). If he has a weakness, it is his focus on the Inquisition and the traditional power structures where it lies. So, I see the basic structure of DA4 beginning with the Fortunate One (protagonist) stumbling on some distant part of Fen'Harel's machinations and foiling it in passing. The Inquisition makes indirect contact and starts dropping Missions (quests) that look very much like the kinds of things the Fortunate One would do but more focused on Fen'Harel's plans. The types of Missions would vary based on the choice to focus on Redeeming or Stopping Fen'harel. Redemption missions would focus on reclaiming the wonders of Thedas as it is now and elevating the best of its people. That goal would be to get Fen'Harel to relent on his decision. If the Inquisitor in Trespasser selected a focus on stopping Fen'harel, the Missions would then tend to directly oppose plans that got closer to dropping the Veil or whatever plan he has to stymie the Evanuris. Varric would probably serve as a 'handler' in-line with the video release from December but I wouldn't mind getting some occasional interaction with other Inquisition notables as the situation warranted. All along, we should get some stories or reports That make it clear the Inquisitor isn't sitting around twiddling thumbs, but is making plenty of other noise to keep Fen'Harel from really noticing the Fortunate One, until its too late. It's a little spare on details but given what little we really know about what's going on, I think its good. Poke it some big holes. Throw out your own small or big ideas. It's what we have other than stewing until we get real data from Bioware. As always, thanks for your time and thoughts. |
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Black Magic Ritual
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on May 3, 2021 18:31:06 GMT
I imagine the fate of Solas is up to the DA4 Protag, although they could end up deferring it to Trev/Lavellan/Cadash/Addar instead  Lavellans who romanced Solas will side with him against the DA4 Party/Protagonist in the inevitable boss battle, afterwards the player can either spare them or execute them. I'd be surprised if Bioware doesn't make that happen, it would be a nice little twist to have. |
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cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on May 3, 2021 18:35:05 GMT
What role should surviving Inquisition members play (if any) in DA4? We can be relatively sure Dorian and Varric are involved somehow and I doubt Divine Victoria will be entirely silent, but how and who else? First i still hope that Varric isn´t anything more than a cameo. Dorian seems like a good candidate for Inquisition contact but many people forget that the player has many options to deal with Dorian. I mean you can punch Dorian or even don´t recruit him. So yeah i think Dorians involvment is more that he is the leader of the Lucerni faction.
Divine Victoria are three people i don´t think that we will whoever it is as Divine. I believe they focus more on the Black Divine. Also if bring Divine Cassandra back what about normal Cassandra is she also back?
The most important DA 4 Inquisition members well you haven´t mention. I talking of Charter and Harding who have one fate, can´t be romanced and always lives in all possible worldstates. Also Bioware prefer to bring secondary characters back instead of the previous major ones because they have too much backage.
Last but not least i believe we have someone from the Inquisition in our DA 4 party who also acts as brigde companion from DAI and DA 4. Like Oghren, Anders & Justice and Varric before.
And i still believe that is Inquisition member companion should be Lace Harding.
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Post by mattjamho on May 3, 2021 19:12:52 GMT
I think the Inquisitor’s appearance should take place out of combat, away from our new PC and be controlled by us. All scenes with the inquisitor would be purely story moments and sequences that allow us to choose their dialog. Scenes such as IQ getting a report of the new PC’s progress from Charter, or IQ is updating the Divine on Solas’ activity, or conversing with Dorian through messenger crystal etc. The Inquisitor and their team would be pulling the strings away from combat, while our PC handles the fighting and adventuring.
Ideally I’d like them to never be in the same scene together, to allow us control of each of them.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2021 19:36:08 GMT
what kind of role can/should the Inquisitor and the Inquisition play in DA4? Playable protagonist. Either alone or one of two in the case of a dual protagonist. No. They would ruin the character, like they did Revan and Hawke before them. Have the player be in charge of the Inquisitor's words and actions during the scenes they are in. Other games have done the player controlling both sides of a conversation successfully, such as Detroit: Become Human. Better than being a ruined NPC. Again, playable protagonist. Any of them could show up. Of the big twelve Cassandra: If Divine, perhaps show up as a mediator like between Qun and Tevinter if peace is an option. If a Seeker, then helping hunt down a demon ally of Solas. Cole: Helps in a quest, maybe against a spirit or demon or if we're ever in the Fade (if a spirit). Cullen: If alive, then he and some Templars help against either demons or mages. Dorian: an important Tevinter NPC, possibly advisor like role. Josephine: An important NPC in Antiva, since we seem to be going there unfortunately (should have gotten its own game) or something involving ships. Leliana: If Divine, same as Cassandra. If not, then helping with some spy stuff. Sera: Helping Red Jennies or similar group in Tevinter. Solas: Main antagonist The Iron Bull: If alive, perhaps helping Dorian against the Qun. Thom: If a Warden, then in the Anderfels/Warden plot. If not, then maybe still helping them just not as a Warden. Varric: Some side quest connected to Maevaris. Vivienne: If Divine, same as above. If not, then helping against an anti-mage or demon threat. There's smaller ones to, like Vaea, Aaron, Francesca, Marius, and Tessa could help with some quest, such as the lyrium idol. Charter meanwhile is the new Inquisition spymaster and maybe an advisor role. Harding could be involved in a quest or a companion (hope not). If the new PC is allies with them, perhaps some exclusive quests following the Save or Stop mentalities. Being dissolved or reduced doesn't matter, since either way there is the secret Inquisition operating. Though if not dissolved, maybe a spy for Solas sabotages something. If dissolved, less allies so some options closed off. The only reason Patton wasn't involved in the invasion of Normandy was because he was under suspension for assaulting one of his own soldiers who was experiencing what is now known as PTSD. The Inquisitor has no reason to sit out like that or make fake attempts, especially since it seems nobody else is going to be helping. Nor would they trust all the truly important missions to just the new PC, since literally the fate of everything is at stake. Also, since Trespasser Solas has built up a lot more spies for him, including armies of Fade dwellers. The moment any PC does anything, whether the Inquisitor or this new person, to hurt his plans he'll know and then stop them either by turning them into a statue or Freddy Krueger them in their dreams. That's one benefit the Inquisitor has, since for some reason Solas is holding himself back on them. He will not do the same to some new person.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2021 19:38:51 GMT
I imagine the fate of Solas is up to the DA4 Protag, although they could end up deferring it to Trev/Lavellan/Cadash/Addar instead  Lavellans who romanced Solas will side with him against the DA4 Party/Protagonist in the inevitable boss battle, afterwards the player can either spare them or execute them. I'd be surprised if Bioware doesn't make that happen, it would be a nice little twist to have. That is a terrible idea (which means Bioware will most likely do it). I know many Solasmancers, and while most want to save him they don't want to side with him in his plans to genocide the entire world. To make it fair, I guess an Inquisitor who wants to stop him instead of redeem becomes just as big a monster in trying to do so thus the new PC stops them like they would a Redeem Inquisitor in your example.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2021 19:41:00 GMT
I think the Inquisitor’s appearance should take place out of combat, away from our new PC and be controlled by us. All scenes with the inquisitor would be purely story moments and sequences that allow us to choose their dialog. Scenes such as IQ getting a report of the new PC’s progress from Charter, or IQ is updating the Divine on Solas’ activity, or conversing with Dorian through messenger crystal etc. The Inquisitor and their team would be pulling the strings away from combat, while our PC handles the fighting and adventuring. Ideally I’d like them to never be in the same scene together, to allow us control of each of them. I disagree about being out of combat, but I agree with the dual protagonist with us controlling them instead of being a NPC. Inquisitor focuses on the Solas story. New PC focuses on other story, such as say the Qun-Tevinter War. Eventually the two stories merge, and maybe at the finale you decide which one to control for the final fight.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on May 3, 2021 19:43:58 GMT
Scenes such as IQ getting a report of the new PC’s progress from Charter I can see that. I picture Charter as the leader of Inquisition forces in Tevinter and Hardings function is a field agent who recruits capable people for the fight against Solas and the new hero is newest one she tries to recruit.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on May 3, 2021 19:53:21 GMT
Any of them could show up. Of the big twelve Cassandra: If Divine, perhaps show up as a mediator like between Qun and Tevinter if peace is an option. If a Seeker, then helping hunt down a demon ally of Solas. Cole: Helps in a quest, maybe against a spirit or demon or if we're ever in the Fade (if a spirit). Cullen: If alive, then he and some Templars help against either demons or mages. Dorian: an important Tevinter NPC, possibly advisor like role. Josephine: An important NPC in Antiva, since we seem to be going there unfortunately (should have gotten its own game) or something involving ships. Leliana: If Divine, same as Cassandra. If not, then helping with some spy stuff. Sera: Helping Red Jennies or similar group in Tevinter. Solas: Main antagonist The Iron Bull: If alive, perhaps helping Dorian against the Qun. Thom: If a Warden, then in the Anderfels/Warden plot. If not, then maybe still helping them just not as a Warden. Varric: Some side quest connected to Maevaris. Vivienne: If Divine, same as above. If not, then helping against an anti-mage or demon threat. I don´t believe that many will return. Maybe 3-4.
I think we can rule out Leliana (because of Charter), Cullen (the whole Greg Ellis debacle), Josephine (i agree with you to much Antivan shows up in a Antiva game)
Unlikely because of the different fates in the worldstates: Cassandra, Cole, The Iron Bull (maybe a small cameo), Thom / Blackwall and Vivienne.
Dorian, Varric and of course Solas are back because they work for the possible worldstates. But i really hope that Varric isn´t a major character or even companion.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 3, 2021 20:03:54 GMT
Lavellans who romanced Solas will side with him against the DA4 Party/Protagonist in the inevitable boss battle, afterwards the player can either spare them or execute them. I'd be surprised if Bioware doesn't make that happen, it would be a nice little twist to have. They had better not do this. Just because Lavellan romanced Solas and wished to redeem him does not mean they support what he plans to do. This is also true of friend Inquisitor who wants to redeem him. The blurb we are given in the Keep says that we think he is making a terrible mistake but do not believe he is beyond hope. In the epilogue for a romanced Lavellen, whilst you could take the phrase "try to change his heart" to simply mean they want him to take them back, the Keep clearly shows that it means we are trying to get him to change his mind but by playing on his affection for Lavellan. So if they used our choice to redeem and the fact we romanced him as a justification for forcing our Lavellan into siding with Solas against the new PC, I'll be furious. It's not a nice little twist and it takes away any agency we have over our former PC. That is not to say they won't do it since I've been burned before by the writing team forcing illogical and out of character choices on me because it fitted the narrative they want to tell. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2021 20:08:00 GMT
Any of them could show up. Of the big twelve Cassandra: If Divine, perhaps show up as a mediator like between Qun and Tevinter if peace is an option. If a Seeker, then helping hunt down a demon ally of Solas. Cole: Helps in a quest, maybe against a spirit or demon or if we're ever in the Fade (if a spirit). Cullen: If alive, then he and some Templars help against either demons or mages. Dorian: an important Tevinter NPC, possibly advisor like role. Josephine: An important NPC in Antiva, since we seem to be going there unfortunately (should have gotten its own game) or something involving ships. Leliana: If Divine, same as Cassandra. If not, then helping with some spy stuff. Sera: Helping Red Jennies or similar group in Tevinter. Solas: Main antagonist The Iron Bull: If alive, perhaps helping Dorian against the Qun. Thom: If a Warden, then in the Anderfels/Warden plot. If not, then maybe still helping them just not as a Warden. Varric: Some side quest connected to Maevaris. Vivienne: If Divine, same as above. If not, then helping against an anti-mage or demon threat. I don´t believe that many will return. Maybe 3-4.
I think we can rule out Leliana (because of Charter), Cullen (the whole Greg Ellis debacle), Josephine (i agree with you to much Antivan shows up in a Antiva game)
Unlikely because of the different fates in the worldstates: Cassandra, Cole, The Iron Bull (maybe a small cameo), Thom / Blackwall and Vivienne.
Dorian, Varric and of course Solas are back because they work for the possible worldstates. But i really hope that Varric isn´t a major character or even companion.
I don’t know. I can see them all returning in different levels, since they did it with ME3 after all. And likewise those roles would be filled by some other character if they can’t fill it for whatever reason. Well with Cullen I was imaging they’d recast the voice actor. Wait, we agree on something (Antiva shouldn’t be in DA4)? If it is in this game, Josephine should be in it too. |
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cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on May 3, 2021 20:21:34 GMT
I don’t know. I can see them all returning in different levels, since they did it with ME3 after all. Well DA 4 isn´t ME 3 where you need all characters to return. Also why would some even show up in Tevinter, Andersfels (more Weißhaupt) or Seheron? That would be pretty forced.
I think that are too many with replacement. I believe that Bioware use more the characters who are working for all possible worldstates.
I think that this is a bad idea and Ellis will exploited this and made a big scandal out of this. If Bioware really Cullen in DA 4 they should use his replacement Captain Rylen instead.
Also Rylen works for every possible worldstate unlike Cullen. Of course i agree with you here because i have to. If Antiva city or state is in the game or in a future game of course the most Antivan characters like Josephine and Zevran are back in some form.
The same goes for Tevinter characters. Of course we will see Dorian and Fenris (yeah i know not if he had been killed) in DA 4.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 3, 2021 20:29:05 GMT
In answer to your question, OP, I'll be very surprised if we don't see Dorian in Tevinter. He has made prominent cameo appearances in both Tevinter Nights and the comic series Deception, recruiting individuals to undertake tasks that he does not wish to do directly himself, so I imagine he will be doing something similar in DA4.
Tevinter Nights also seemed to hint that Varric was recruiting on behalf of the shadow Inquisition, being their contact in Kirkwall. It is possible he will be on the move again for DA4, has connections in Tevinter and quite possibly elsewhere in the north, so could pop up anywhere "watching our back". Like Dorian, though, I do not envisage him as a party member but an adviser and quest giver. Charter might also do the same. In fact if we do end up going to various locations outside of Tevinter, it could be that Varric and Charter will each cover their own area. Alternatively, it is possible we might be given a mobile HQ; a ship for example and Dorian, Varric and Charter will all be based on it, much in the same way that our former advisers were in Haven and Skyhold in DAI. I don't think Divine Victoria will be putting in an appearance but may be a new NPC will be there as her representative in the north.
I think if any character from DAI is going to be in our party it will be Lace Harding, although she could still fulfill the role of forward scout like she did in DAI. Before the latest trailer brought Varric into the mix, Harding was the one person other than Dorian I felt was guaranteed to have a major role in the next game. Not only did the epilogue to Trespasser say she was being groomed to be Leliana's successor, along with Charter, but unlike the latter she was actually present at the War Table in the final scene. So it seemed to me that Charter was being kept probably as the contact used in the comics and Tevinter Nights, whilst Harding was going to be the one in the game.
I'm not entirely sure at this stage how they will bring our new PC into things. It is possible that the shadow Inquisition is going to be only one of many factions who we end up working for, at least initially until they are made aware of Solas, perhaps by constantly having him or his agents cross their path. Then the Inquisitor will make an appearance to make us aware just how much of a threat he is and how they would like us to help neutralise it.
The alternative might be something similar to ME2, when the Inquisitor (or their agents in the form of the people mentioned above) recruits us from the outset as someone who will be completely unknown to Solas and then we are given a series of tasks to help gather intelligence, items and personnel to use in a final "suicide" mission against his stronghold (wherever that might be; probably in the Fade). For those PCs who might seem reluctant to co-operate we know from the comics that Charter is not above using blackmail to get people to work for the Inquisition, so it may well be that we are persuaded by some sort of hold that the Inquisition has over us.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2021 20:30:47 GMT
I don’t know. I can see them all returning in different levels, since they did it with ME3 after all. Well DA 4 isn´t ME 3 where you need all characters to return. Also why would some even show up in Tevinter, Andersfels (more Weißhaupt) or Seheron? That would be pretty forced.
I think that are too many with replacement. I believe that Bioware use more the characters who are working for all possible worldstates.
I think that this is a bad idea and Ellis will exploited this and made a big scandal out of this. If Bioware really Cullen in DA 4 they should use his replacement Captain Rylen instead.
Also Rylen works for every possible worldstate unlike Cullen. Of course i agree with you here because i have to. If Antiva city or state is in the game or in a future game of course the most Antivan characters like Josephine and Zevran are back in some form.
The same goes for Tevinter characters. Of course we will see Dorian and Fenris (yeah i know not if he had been killed) in DA 4.
Because they all know the threat Solas poses and want to help in whatever way they can. Same with ME3, which didn’t need everyone to return either. Not really. Only some would need replacements. Far less than ME3 since in DAI most couldn’t die. Meh, he doesn’t have nearly the clout he thinks he does. It’s not the first time they’ve recasted. I was referring more to ‘Antiva shouldn’t be in DA4 but another game’. I fear they are going to squander it while they focus mostly on Tevinter. (Same fears for other nations like the Anderfels or Nevarra). |
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on May 3, 2021 20:44:31 GMT
I don't think Divine Victoria will be putting in an appearance but may be a new NPC will be there as her representative in the north. That would be fine so Bioware can save resources and don´t have find ways to include a Divine Cassandra, Non Divine Cassandra, Divine Leliana, Non Divine Leliana, Divine Vivienne and Non Divine Vivienne. I was think about bring Mother Geselle back but i think that her story is finished.
So new NPC.
Big Thanks for bringing this up. I really don´t think coincidence that the only non quantum character Harding was shown in the last sequence of DAI. The whole scene was a big teaser for DA 4.
I think that this makes the most sense because Bioware really wants every DA game stands on this own or should i say better: It should also work for new player who haven´t played a 8-10 year old game?
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Post by Zemgus on May 3, 2021 20:49:59 GMT
Just to answer the question: I hope that the Inquisitor will be there in person to deal with Solas when the time comes - preferably as a playable character. I had this though today that maybe the New Hero actually isn't able to defeat the Dread Wolf (because he's more powerful than any enemy in the previous games and the New Hero is apparently going to be a powerless nobody) - and are at the last minute saved by the arrival of the Inquisitor.
That's the bare minimum role that I hope the Inquisitor will have in DA4. Additionally I would also like for the Inquisitor to have a similar role as Ciri in the Witcher 3: most of the games is played as the New Hero but then there are these smaller segments where we play as the Inquisitor. Someone else in another thread had an interesting idea about the Inquisitor interacting with Solas in their dreams. I can't even imagine how amazing that would be.
If the Inquisitor absolutely CANNOT appear in the game in-person (for budget reasons for example) then I would prefer for them to die at the beginning of the game. Then the need for a New Hero would definitely make sense and it would just feel better than spending the entire game trying to justify why the Inquisitor isn't here when this is something she/he really cares about.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2021 20:53:23 GMT
If the Inquisitor absolutely CANNOT appear in the game in-person (for budget reasons for example) then I would prefer for them to die at the beginning of the game. Then the need for a New Hero would definitely make sense and it would just feel better than spending the entire game trying to justify why the Inquisitor isn't here when this is something she/he really cares about. I agreed with you until this point (well mostly, like the split shouldn’t be Geralt/Ciri but more Master Chief/Arbiter or Fireteam Osiris/Blue Team). They should absolutely not just kill off the Inquisitor at the beginning of the game, especially after the setup in Trespasser and leaving it dangling for nearly a decade. |
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on May 3, 2021 20:57:58 GMT
Because they all know the threat Solas poses and want to help in whatever way they can. Same with ME3, which didn’t need everyone to return either. And why didn´t anyone besides Oghren helps the Warden? Right Budget. You can´t possible bring everyone back from DAI. Bioware has ungrateful job to create a mix from all the previous characters, the book characters, the comic characters and also new characters.
You can´t use Divine Cassandra in the same way as normal Cassandra. If Normal Cassandra is back Bioware need a replacement for Divine Cassandra.
True but its all the Ellis drama worth it to bring Cullen back for some minor role? Cullen can´t be used as major character because of his possible death. Also aren´t 3 games in a row not enough for this guy. He should retire but he could be mentioned by some characters like Harding, Charter or even Dorian.
Its highly unlikely with the concept arts that Weißhaupt and therefore Anderfels isn´t the game. Also i believe that the warden civil war is one of the big themes in DA 4.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2021 21:07:11 GMT
Because they all know the threat Solas poses and want to help in whatever way they can. Same with ME3, which didn’t need everyone to return either. And why didn´t anyone besides Oghren helps the Warden? Right Budget. You can´t possible bring everyone back from DAI. Bioware has ungrateful job to create a mix from all the previous characters, the book characters, the comic characters and also new characters.
You can´t use Divine Cassandra in the same way as normal Cassandra. If Normal Cassandra is back Bioware need a replacement for Divine Cassandra.
True but its all the Ellis drama worth it to bring Cullen back for some minor role? Cullen can´t be used as major character because of his possible death. Also aren´t 3 games in a row not enough for this guy. He should retire but he could be mentioned by some characters like Harding, Charter or even Dorian.
Its highly unlikely with the concept arts that Weißhaupt and therefore Anderfels isn´t the game. Also i believe that the warden civil war is one of the big themes in DA 4.
I’d give the actual reasons, between how Awakening was a small scale thing that came out of nowhere compared to Solas which threatens everything and they’ve known about for years now, or even how one is an expansion while the other is a full game, but you seem to have already made up your mind. Not saying they will do it, but they can and have in the past. Replacement Divine Cassandra is Divine Leliana or Divine Vivienne. For all three, most of the dialogue would be the same in this case. Again, you’re vastly overestimating Ellis. There would be practically no drama and what little there was BioWare wouldn’t care (or even like it since brings the name of the game up thus free advertising). I know it’s unlikely it won’t be in the game. My concern is that nations like Antiva or the Anderfels will be treated like the Free Marches: get barely any attention but BioWare be “Well we had a map of that nation. No need to explore it more. Cross it off the list.” instead of give them to focus they deserve. BioWare couldn’t do two nations without complaints, and yet they think they can do half a continent in one? |
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Post by Zemgus on May 3, 2021 21:14:58 GMT
If the Inquisitor absolutely CANNOT appear in the game in-person (for budget reasons for example) then I would prefer for them to die at the beginning of the game. Then the need for a New Hero would definitely make sense and it would just feel better than spending the entire game trying to justify why the Inquisitor isn't here when this is something she/he really cares about. I agreed with you until this point (well mostly, like the split shouldn’t be Geralt/Ciri but more Master Chief/Arbiter or Fireteam Osiris/Blue Team). They should absolutely not just kill off the Inquisitor at the beginning of the game, especially after the setup in Trespasser and leaving it dangling for nearly a decade. For me the Inquisitor dying at the beginning of the game would be far more preferable than them only being mentioned in a codex entry or something like that. Being dead would be the only good explanation for their complete absence when dealing with Solas.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 3, 2021 21:25:33 GMT
I agreed with you until this point (well mostly, like the split shouldn’t be Geralt/Ciri but more Master Chief/Arbiter or Fireteam Osiris/Blue Team). They should absolutely not just kill off the Inquisitor at the beginning of the game, especially after the setup in Trespasser and leaving it dangling for nearly a decade. For me the Inquisitor dying at the beginning of the game would be far more preferable than them only being mentioned in a codex entry or something like that. Being dead would be the only good explanation for their complete absence when dealing with Solas. If they were going to kill the Inquisitor off, it should have been at the end of Trespasser. Doing it now after all this time is one of the biggest middle fingers to Inquisitor fans I can think of. Them being in a Codex can at least have them still trying to deal with Solas, just perhaps in the south thus can’t be in the north. Still absolutely sucks and is terrible writing, but better than killing them off. |
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Black Magic Ritual
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on May 3, 2021 21:52:50 GMT
Lavellans who romanced Solas will side with him against the DA4 Party/Protagonist in the inevitable boss battle, afterwards the player can either spare them or execute them. I'd be surprised if Bioware doesn't make that happen, it would be a nice little twist to have. They had better not do this. Just because Lavellan romanced Solas and wished to redeem him does not mean they support what he plans to do. This is also true of friend Inquisitor who wants to redeem him. The blurb we are given in the Keep says that we think he is making a terrible mistake but do not believe he is beyond hope. In the epilogue for a romanced Lavellen, whilst you could take the phrase "try to change his heart" to simply mean they want him to take them back, the Keep clearly shows that it means we are trying to get him to change his mind but by playing on his affection for Lavellan. So if they used our choice to redeem and the fact we romanced him as a justification for forcing our Lavellan into siding with Solas against the new PC, I'll be furious. It's not a nice little twist and it takes away any agency we have over our former PC. That is not to say they won't do it since I've been burned before by the writing team forcing illogical and out of character choices on me because it fitted the narrative they want to tell. This assumes of course that Solas is the Big Bad of the game, or that he even intends to go through with the whole genocide thing by the time of his boss battle. I'm assuming the true final boss is some other Evanuris like Mythal or Falon'din, at which point Lavellan going along with him isn't so much an attempt to destory the world but rather save it from something even worse, although in the narrative the Inquisitors party and the DA4 PC/Party are unaware of this. I mean I still haven't the faintest idea (like everyone else) who Solas plan is but I doubt he's gonna be the last boss we face. |
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Post by mattjamho on May 3, 2021 21:56:34 GMT
I think the Inquisitor’s appearance should take place out of combat, away from our new PC and be controlled by us. All scenes with the inquisitor would be purely story moments and sequences that allow us to choose their dialog. Scenes such as IQ getting a report of the new PC’s progress from Charter, or IQ is updating the Divine on Solas’ activity, or conversing with Dorian through messenger crystal etc. The Inquisitor and their team would be pulling the strings away from combat, while our PC handles the fighting and adventuring. Ideally I’d like them to never be in the same scene together, to allow us control of each of them. I disagree about being out of combat, but I agree with the dual protagonist with us controlling them instead of being a NPC. Inquisitor focuses on the Solas story. New PC focuses on other story, such as say the Qun-Tevinter War. Eventually the two stories merge, and maybe at the finale you decide which one to control for the final fight. I’d like that to happen, but really doubt they’ll have IQ in a combat role for most of the game, following two different stories with separate quest lines, combat build, companions etc. would get real complicated real quick. I don’t think it could be done well, so I’d rather the Inquisitor gets the meat of the story scenes with Solas somehow instead, and new PC tackles everything else. |
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Gileadan
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Post by Gileadan on May 3, 2021 22:31:06 GMT
Codex entry for the Inquisition / the Inquisitor.
By the time DA4 comes out it will have been 8 or 9 years since DAI and I'm quite over that game's story and its characters. The end of Trespasser and the DA4 trailer suggest that someone new has to tackle the Solas problem, someone Solas doesn't know about, and that this new protagonist will be mostly on their own.
Hopefully that's exactly what they're going to deliver.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 3, 2021 22:37:06 GMT
I want the Inquisitor and the Inquisition to be gone. The most I would want to see is a playable prologue section where the Inquisitor attempts to stop Solas and fails.
I think the game should start with the Inquisition thoroughly wiped out and Solas already ruling the world.
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A little historical metaphor, during World War 2, the western allies executed multiple plans to deceive Axis forces as to where they would be landing to open a crucial second front. One of these plans codenamed fortitude South involved the famously capable and prickly General George Patton who was announced as the leader of a new (fake) Army group in England. Patton appeared in several places around where this fictional Army group was supposed to be concentrating along with fake tanks, camps, landing craft, radio transmissions, and a few real units not slated for the real landing. The point of this little historical aside is that I see the Inquisitor and Inquisition in the DA version of a Fortitude-like mission. Fen'Harel has many agents and advantages, but he is not omniscient or even close (he admits he only found out about Dragon's Breath when his agents encountered Qunari agents that had infiltrated the Inquisition). If he has a weakness, it is his focus on the Inquisition and the traditional power structures where it lies. So, I see the basic structure of DA4 beginning with the Fortunate One (protagonist) stumbling on some distant part of Fen'Harel's machinations and foiling it in passing. The Inquisition makes indirect contact and starts dropping Missions (quests) that look very much like the kinds of things the Fortunate One would do but more focused on Fen'Harel's plans. The types of Missions would vary based on the choice to focus on Redeeming or Stopping Fen'harel. Redemption missions would focus on reclaiming the wonders of Thedas as it is now and elevating the best of its people. That goal would be to get Fen'Harel to relent on his decision. If the Inquisitor in Trespasser selected a focus on stopping Fen'harel, the Missions would then tend to directly oppose plans that got closer to dropping the Veil or whatever plan he has to stymie the Evanuris. Varric would probably serve as a 'handler' in-line with the video release from December but I wouldn't mind getting some occasional interaction with other Inquisition notables as the situation warranted. All along, we should get some stories or reports That make it clear the Inquisitor isn't sitting around twiddling thumbs, but is making plenty of other noise to keep Fen'Harel from really noticing the Fortunate One, until its too late. It's a little spare on details but given what little we really know about what's going on, I think its good. Poke it some big holes. Throw out your own small or big ideas. It's what we have other than stewing until we get real data from Bioware. As always, thanks for your time and thoughts. 
A little historical metaphor, during World War 2, the western allies executed multiple plans to deceive Axis forces as to where they would be landing to open a crucial second front. One of these plans codenamed fortitude South involved the famously capable and prickly General George Patton who was announced as the leader of a new (fake) Army group in England. Patton appeared in several places around where this fictional Army group was supposed to be concentrating along with fake tanks, camps, landing craft, radio transmissions, and a few real units not slated for the real landing. The point of this little historical aside is that I see the Inquisitor and Inquisition in the DA version of a Fortitude-like mission. Fen'Harel has many agents and advantages, but he is not omniscient or even close (he admits he only found out about Dragon's Breath when his agents encountered Qunari agents that had infiltrated the Inquisition). If he has a weakness, it is his focus on the Inquisition and the traditional power structures where it lies. So, I see the basic structure of DA4 beginning with the Fortunate One (protagonist) stumbling on some distant part of Fen'Harel's machinations and foiling it in passing. The Inquisition makes indirect contact and starts dropping Missions (quests) that look very much like the kinds of things the Fortunate One would do but more focused on Fen'Harel's plans. The types of Missions would vary based on the choice to focus on Redeeming or Stopping Fen'harel. Redemption missions would focus on reclaiming the wonders of Thedas as it is now and elevating the best of its people. That goal would be to get Fen'Harel to relent on his decision. If the Inquisitor in Trespasser selected a focus on stopping Fen'harel, the Missions would then tend to directly oppose plans that got closer to dropping the Veil or whatever plan he has to stymie the Evanuris. Varric would probably serve as a 'handler' in-line with the video release from December but I wouldn't mind getting some occasional interaction with other Inquisition notables as the situation warranted. All along, we should get some stories or reports That make it clear the Inquisitor isn't sitting around twiddling thumbs, but is making plenty of other noise to keep Fen'Harel from really noticing the Fortunate One, until its too late. It's a little spare on details but given what little we really know about what's going on, I think its good. Poke it some big holes. Throw out your own small or big ideas. It's what we have other than stewing until we get real data from Bioware. As always, thanks for your time and thoughts. 
