Role of Inquisitor and Inquisition in DA4

Even so, as I've said elsewhere, why did they think this was the prelude to another Blight? There were no darkspawn pouring onto the surface and no arch-demon on the move (if they know where they are then they would know if they were still there or not). Thus, whilst the false Calling would be worrying, there was not the need for the full-scale panic that we were presented with. Send off to Weisshaupt for advice (Clarel did not do this as in Last Flight they mention they had received no reports from her, which they thought odd but not unduly so since that did occasionally happen with the Wardens at a distance). They could also contact other Warden outposts in the north to check whether there was any sign of large scale darkspawn insurgence there and also if they were hearing the Calling. They could also have tried recruiting more troops but not putting them through the Joining straight away (which again is what Weisshaupt were doing, which made me wonder if the First Warden was aware of the false Calling). Anyway, the point I'm making is that they had other options before they started doing the headless chicken demon summoning routine.

Since they showed that Erimond was capable of controlling at least the mage Wardens with the artifact that Corypheus gave him and clearly Corypheus was controlling both the Wardens at the Conclave and later in the Arbor Wilds, why didn't they just go with him controlling all the Wardens to explain their apparent stupidity? Actually, considering I seem to recall Clarel was a mage, why didn't they at least have her totally under Erimond's control? What made the whole thing less convincing was when Clarel seemed to apparently have freedom of thought.

What also annoyed me was that whole decision about whether to banish them or not. Having given the heavy implication that if you kept them with the Inquisition they might be still at risk of being controlled by Corypheus, it came to nothing. Keep the Wardens gave you additional war table missions and entirely good outcomes for the Wardens across Thedas. Banish them (from Orlais) which I chose to do initially entirely for their own safety as well as that of anyone connected with them, I got nothing in return but an outcome in the epilogue of everyone in Thedas turning against them that was definitely not what I intended should happen. If the Wardens took the action they did because they were under the influence of Corypheus, even if only indirectly, and if they were still at risk from him so long as he was in circulation, then please be consistent in the consequences of ignoring the warning.

My DA lore may not be up-to-snuff, but I didn't think the mass Calling meant another Blight but something completely different. I though from within DA:I (and what I thought I knew of Grey Wardens previously), that meant that they all would be dying soon and possibly changing into Ghouls. Isn't that why wardens go on suicide dives into the Deep Roads on their Calling: to kill as many darkspawn as possible and die before they are corrupted? The fear, then, was a two-pronged beast that Orlais and Ferelden might be left bereft a couple of generations of Wardens but suddenly with a bunch of ghouls in fancy, Orleasian Warden armor (or corpses, if they went all Masada on each other) and that this was something completely unprecedented. People, even good leaders, can do some monumentally stupid things when they are presented with something way out of their experience. Not saying this was done or presented well at all, but it wasn't one of the points that triggered me.



That's the MUCH weaker part of this Plot point though some things aren't quite as clear cut. Assume a good raven can cover about 300 km in a day (Pigeons in ancient times could do 150 per day, modern ones can do 1000km+ but that's with extreme breeding and competition). If Weisshaupt is about 3000km away, that's a minimum 10 days (and probably more because there would probably need to be some kind of relay system for that long a flight). You can play some with the numbers on way or the other, but Clarel is looking at about three weeks with the singing in her ears (probably goosed some by the Nightmare) before she gets the response from Weisshaupt. How many of her Wardens will be Ghouls or dead before then? I would definitely would have liked more evidence they tried other means and/or research before they turned to Snidely Magisterlash and that could have been done in several places. Again, not well done but maybe not as bad either. (Does Nevarra not have Wardens? seems that would have been a better place to check than Weisshaupt)


That would have made things easier, but it was clear she was being saved for Drama...I mean...for the last. Erimond only get total control after the mage bound a demon with his particular ritual as he demonstrated at the Ritual tower in the Western Expanse (every once in a while they showed important Plot points correctly). The demon she summoned but was stopped from binding kept her from getting the glowing eyeblack treatment.



On that, I am in total agreement (though you did get two War Table missions if you expelled the Wardens, just sayin). Maybe have the Wardens fighting some of Cory's forces in the Arbor Wilds, then suddenly switch to red circles when you get to them, for example. Maybe there will be more impacts in DA4, but I'm not fond of putting too much on a following game.

Now, can we create a separate topic for this so I can get back to Inquisitor and DA4, please?

Personally, I hope that either decision has simultaneous good and negative outcomes in DA4.

With disband we are told the chance of infiltration is drastically reduced but the loss of massive resources. Emphasis on reduced chance, not nonexistent. We can still be infiltrated if the Inquisitor or some agent (like the potential DA4 protagonist) makes a mistake. Or there can indeed be far reaching consequences precisely because we chose the disband option or vice versa.

For example, say we learn in DA4 where a massive amount of Solas's forces are and they have no idea we know this or have any idea how we will strike. This notable force is technically in an Andrastian nation, and we are told if a significant force strikes now we will give Solas a major blow. The Inquisition would do it itself but oh wait--they don't the manpower or resources to actually doing it! Meaning that Solas gets to keep a significant amount of his forces. Solas may talk about how large forces are a liability, but there's a reason most people prefer to have a big army. If they find a massive threat it can be crushed. Ruthlessly and sometimes completely.

Conversely, if we were in that same scenario but we chose the divine guard option, we could go ahead and attack those forces. But they know we're coming due to infiltration. They can't all get out of the way in time, but they do manage to get some people/assets away. But we still deal a massive blow to Solas purely because of the high body count. But now the DA4 protag has extra work they need to do (or are highly encouraged to do) because several assets of interest were taken away and they can't trust their own agents. If the DA4 protagonist fails or doesn't even realize that they need to account for Solas's spies, then there will be consequences later on because you basically gave Solas a leg up.

And if Patton hadn't been so highly regarded by the US command and the Germans, he would have found his butt back stateside. Don't like that example? How about Aragorn son of Arathorn, Isildur's Heir, etc. etc. who should have been destroying his Foe's Power Source but wound up leading one Hell of a distraction instead? The unlikely Hero, whether through luck or prophecy or whatever is a common trope. That might be the Inquisitor but it might not and there are legitimate reasons for either. I think you missed the point of Dread Wolf Take You. Fen'Harel may not make statuary out of the Inquisitor or his nearest pals, but everyone else they work with get dealt with summarily because that's who Fen'harel is keying on. That happens enough, the Inquisitor won't get anywhere and do you really see your Inquisitor signing death warrants just because she has to be the one to stop him? If Fen'harel is already both omnipotent and omniscient, then its game over regardless. The nescient part is usually the one that gets these types: too many balls to keep an eye on for all the power they have.


In general, I can see the advantages of having the Inquisitor being player controlled, though I would argue for it to be a narrow case if it happens. It's unfair to writers and Players to try to make a protagonist into a significant NPC because of all the choices we make that aren't recorded in a Keep and elements we add with our imagination no writer can really know. I am intrigued with the idea of having a conversation with both sides driven by the Player. How did Becoming Human handle the explosion of possible conversation branches that come when both sides have multiple conversation options? Roughly how long were the conversations? I wouldn't mind (and I don't think it would be terribly expensive) for the Inquisitor to grab a couple of the DA4 Companions not being used on a mission for something crucial that came up. Kind of like the defense of the Gates of Denerim in DA:O except more of a full adventure as opposed to a short skirmish. Most Companion dialogue doesn't involve the protagonist directly in DA:I but it might be interesting to see Companions interact with the Legend.

For those who want to see as little of the Inquisitor at all, I'm afraid signs aren't good and I can't really agree myself anyway. There is some truth to the fact that the Inquisitor is too closely tied to Fen'harel to just lore quote or letter her/him. Shoot, if this is (possibly) the swansong for Thedas before we go across the sea or forward in time or something, maybe Bioware gets all the Protags together for one last go. I don't mind a little cheese with my games. I will agree that DA4 needs to be the protagonist's story and not a 50-50 or even 80-20 split. Narrative focus in Inquisition was terrible. No need to up the degree of difficulty on top of doing a new character and game.

Thanks for everyone's contributions, even if it looks like we're mainly in two camps on opposite sides. The internet, Who Knew!

Aragorn isn't a good example. First, he wasn't the protagonist of the story. The best comparison for him to Bioware games would be a plot-centered companion, for example Alistair. Second, he didn't opt out of the Frodo story but they were separated. No, DA4 going with a new PC would be like if Frodo just peaced out or gave his mission to some random person he met not a part of the Fellowship. Or like I said earlier in another thread, if Luke just decided not to go after his father Vader to stop or save him, and instead some random person suddenly took up that quest despite having no connection to Vader or the plot. 

I missed nothing about that story. That story is evidence for exactly why having somebody other than the Inquisitor go after Solas: the Dread Wolf will kill that new person without hesitation. Also Solas isn't just focusing on the Inquisition, as we know he is focusing on anyone and everyone who could pose a threat to his plans. And you say that there would be too much for him to focus on, while ignoring his entire game plan so far has been having spies everywhere, both in Thedas and the Fade. And yes, they have made Solas too powerful so like the Reapers Bioware is going to have to bludgeon him with the Idiot Ball to even give us a chance. Though at least the Inquisitor being PC gives somewhat of a reason why, since for some reason he can't bring himself to do to them what he can to anyone else. 

As for my Inquisitor signing death warrants, first my canon Inquisitor is a he. And I see the fear and burden of signing death warrants to be more evidence why they would take on the responsibility to stop Solas themselves instead of relying on someone else since they wouldn't want to sign death warrants.

Glad we agree on that much. 

I never played Detroit: Become Human myself, and even thought the idea of controlling both sides of the conversation doomed to fail. So I can't speak in much detail. However, someone here gave a link to a scene where it happens and I was pleasantly surprised. The one they showed lasted a couple minutes. 

Here was the scene they showed me, with two variations of it. 

As for splitting the companions up, I doubt that would be really feasible since that's a ton of work and has a lot of risks. More likely each protagonist would get their own team, like how in Halo 5 Locke had Fireteam Osiris (and the crew of the Infinity) while Master Chief had Blue Team. 

I could be either not describing the plan well or missing several points because I don't see how what you describe is more efficient and low-risk than my suggestion. Bear with me while I clarify what my thought was then you can clarify what you were thinking. Some assumptions I made but didn't state: there are roughly 8 Companions with a level of involvement and dialogue of the Inquisition Companions created for the Fortunate One, the Fortunate One has three Companions with him/her when the Inquisitor has a situation where she/he needs to help directly, and the three the Inquisitor takes with him/her will have the same level of capability and banter that the other Companions would have. If three "unused" Companions are taken by the Inquisitor, then all the models, animations, AI, combat status declarations, and most inter=party conversations are already baked-in. You would need to add some unique dialogue and perhaps some interjections for parts of Mission: Inquisitor but you've got eight voice actors already doing hundreds of lines for Companions so a few more unique ones wouldn't be much of an additional expense. On the other hand, having a 'Blue Team' for the Inquisitor would mean at least three new(ish) characters with models, animations, AI, exclamations and banter. If you wanted to give the Inquisitor a choice, you'd have to add more characters and get them into the selection interface somehow. Three plus new voice actors to schedule in, even for just one good mission, would cost a fair bit more than adding a few lines to cast you already have slotted in. I'm not sure how there's more risk or work the way I suggested but I'm quite willing to listen.

Agree 100%

By the end of Trespasser DLC "we will save our friend from himself, if we can" and with the DA4 teaser in 2018 "so, you've found me at last. I suspect you have questions", I was convinced Inky would return in some form, most sensibly as the protagonist. With the newest trailer, I guess we're getting another breakup (Prefer Mass Effect over Dragon Age for the reason they keep Shepard throughout and not a new noob each time). So now, for me, the only way any of this makes sense is if either the Inky dies at the beginning forcing a new protag or that Inky shows up towards the end to assist or take down Solas- maybe die then. 

Annoying how we get Varrick again after 3 games and can't even keep Inky for 2. 

Edit: said Arrival DLC and not Trespasser 

You misunderstand my premise. Of course they would have to be remodeled but would already have been done because they are already going to be part of the story, just not as full party members for the new PC. It would be more like Leliana, Cullen or Morrigan were in DAI. They were not companions as such but they were in the game as advisors, who also briefly joined the PC for certain missions. So their avatar had to be full programmed to participate in those missions.

So what I'm suggesting is that Dorian and Varric seem very likely to appear and play a part in the plot with the new PC so will have to have a fully functioning avatar programmed already and their VAs will already be recording lines. Then if the Inquisitor is returning, why not someone like Cassandra, where it was clear from the end of Trespasser they were still wanting to be fully involved in the fight against Solas? There is also the possibility that she will already have cropped up in some capacity to advise or aid the new PC, so again their avatar will already have been designed and programmed in, together with their VA working on the project.

Thus it would be a case of bringing together the Inquisitor with these people to undertake a mission in tandem with the activity of the new PC. In fact, what mitigates against this is not the resources that might be used on old team members who are already part of the game but on the Inquisitor. If they are involved in the game, not only would people want to be able to fully customize them but it would require recording dialogue with 4 different VAs, so for it to be worth doing, the Inquisitor would need to be making a substantial contribution to the development of the plot. Otherwise if it is just a token cameo appearance it hardly seems worth it and they might just as well stick to having them communicate and contribute via third parties and letters.

Question on the topic of this thread. Do we think the warden is a party member and how do they tie into the inquisition? Also why is the wardens uniform
Different

I'm against the Inq showing up just to die in 4 but this is the way to do it.

Splitting the team up sounds neat actually, and a chance to actually play that old PC for a portion of the game would be fun.

The example I am thinking of is Dxun 2.0 from KotOR2. You need to pick a leader for the fire team on the planet surface, and then that leader has to win. Not perfectly analogous, but I liked that part of that game and I could see it being done well.

Have to agree that they have written themselves into a corner regarding Solas and the Quis. Especially after Descent. I am not nearly as invested in this lore as many of you, so I am not as worried I guess. Rather I am hopeful they can find a clever creative way to make this all ok or even good. Lots of chips on the table for this game, it really needs to be polished.