inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 29, 2021 15:18:01 GMT
All the characters are blank slates, but the Inquisitor is especially boring because it's basically impossible to give them a personality because all the lines are so fucking bland. The "tones" barely differ from each other and you get like no jokes at all. I absolutely agree. I just don't think new characters, or protagonist, will be any better. It is, more or less, the same writing team at Bioware, over the past 10 years and this is what they like to write. Unless they take a huge leap outside their comfort zone, I don't think anything is going to change. And, don't get me wrong, it's not like most other companies do a better job out there, but at least they don't emphasize the writing that much in their games.
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on May 29, 2021 16:12:53 GMT
All the characters are blank slates, but the Inquisitor is especially boring because it's basically impossible to give them a personality because all the lines are so fucking bland. The "tones" barely differ from each other and you get like no jokes at all. I absolutely agree. I just don't think new characters, or protagonist, will be any better. It is, more or less, the same writing team at Bioware, over the past 10 years and this is what they like to write. Unless they take a huge leap outside their comfort zone, I don't think anything is going to change. And, don't get me wrong, it's not like most other companies do a better job out there, but at least they don't emphasize the writing that much in their games. I don't completely agree. Inquisition had basically the same writers of DA2, with the exception of Weekes being added to the mix. While one can dislike both Hawke and the Inquisitor as protagonits, the former's lines weren't as bland as the latter. As with many things with Inquisition (the focus on the open world areas being the prime example of this), the lines of the Inquisitor were at least partially a consequence of the criticism about Hawke. I'd say this issue is more due an issue related to the protagonist being voiced, and the difficulties that comes with this approach. You have to find a balance in the tones and lines, because if you go too far, you expose yourself of the criticism that the PC isn't really you and it's more of a fixed protagonist (which is something *some* people said of both Shepard and Hawke); on the other hand, you can get criticized for making a protagonist that is too bland. I'm not saying that DA4 won't necessarily have the same situation, but I don't think it's an issue that is related to the writing staff, per se.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 29, 2021 16:27:15 GMT
I absolutely agree. I just don't think new characters, or protagonist, will be any better. It is, more or less, the same writing team at Bioware, over the past 10 years and this is what they like to write. Unless they take a huge leap outside their comfort zone, I don't think anything is going to change. And, don't get me wrong, it's not like most other companies do a better job out there, but at least they don't emphasize the writing that much in their games. I don't completely agree. Inquisition had basically the same writers of DA2, with the exception of Weekes being added to the mix. While one can dislike both Hawke and the Inquisitor as protagonits, the former's lines weren't as bland as the latter. As with many things with Inquisition (the focus on the open world areas being the prime example of this), the lines of the Inquisitor were at least partially a consequence of the criticism about Hawke. I'd say this issue is more due an issue related to the protagonist being voiced, and the difficulties that comes with this approach. You have to find a balance in the tones and lines, because if you go too far, you expose yourself of the criticism that the PC isn't really you and it's more of a fixed protagonist (which is something *some* people said of both Shepard and Hawke); on the other hand, you can get criticized for making a protagonist that is too bland. I'm not saying that DA4 won't necessarily have the same situation, but I don't think it's an issue that is related to the writing staff, per se. Bioware has failed to make me care about any one single character they've introduced in any game, since DA2. I'm sure they all have their fans, more or less, but most of these games have not been well received and their casts are widely considered forgettable. It is difficult to strike up conversation about any of these characters and even when you do, there is little to be said. They're not particularly interesting, nor well thought out with little lasting appeal. Maybe that suits Bioware just fine, but it doesn't build fanbases. It procures an ephemeral crowd that is here today, gone tomorrow. You can't capitalize on that. In that sense, it is good that most of them will not be returning. But the expectation is that we are just getting a new batch of the same. I don't have expectations from the next Bioware game, other than it will have companions. Yes, I expect games to have characters in them. Do I care who they will be, or that I will care to talk to them? Highly doubtful. They'll be there, then they'll be gone the next and good riddance to them, once more, so we can repeat that with the next title. What is there to care about? I wish Bioware would at least give us the option to murder them all, on sight, because that's the extent of their usefulness. In Skyrim I would be able to, at least.
|
|
bierkrug
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 522 Likes: 1,098
inherit
11900
0
Dec 11, 2024 11:21:12 GMT
1,098
bierkrug
522
May 2021
bierkrug
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by bierkrug on May 29, 2021 16:42:53 GMT
Imagine a spectrum. On the left you have the blankest of blank slates, the Dragonborn of Skyrim. On the right, you have a fully defined character like, say, Geralt of Rivia from Witcher 3. The DA protagonists are nestled nicely in the middle of that for me, with the inquisitor being slightly further to the left than Hawke and the Warden. The latter two having more context added to them because we get to know their families/friends and more of their life from before the start of the game. I never found them bland, I'm good at filling in the blanks. I prefer the blanks beings there so I can fill them for myself to begin with but having enough context to know who my character is in this world. I'd say this issue is more due an issue related to the protagonist being voiced, and the difficulties that comes with this approach. You have to find a balance in the tones and lines, because if you go too far, you expose yourself of the criticism that the PC isn't really you and it's more of a fixed protagonist (which is something *some* people said of both Shepard and Hawke); on the other hand, you can get criticized for making a protagonist that is too bland. Personal thing, but I found I really like my protagonists voiced. It helps to form an image of the character in my head and I prefer full dialogue cutscenes. Considering the backlash Fallout 4 got though, I'm probably alone with that.
|
|
Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,919 Likes: 7,495
inherit
Agent 46
177
0
Dec 12, 2024 15:19:13 GMT
7,495
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,919
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
|
Post by Gileadan on May 29, 2021 16:54:11 GMT
I found the Inquisitor pretty bland too, mostly because the voice over (I picked American English male, which might have been a mistake) failed to give me much emotion even when a dialogue choice was specifically on their newfangled "emotion wheel". I picked Angry, and I got "Neutral with a bit of Slightly Miffed on top". I picked Sad, and I got something along the lines of "bummer I guess". Yeah, there is That Line in Trespasser, but there's a reason why it stands out so much - because everything else is so bland.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 29, 2021 17:05:06 GMT
I don’t get the complaints about the Inquisitor being bland or not not emotive. Definitely want the next protagonist to be more like them instead of like Hawke or Shepard.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 847 Likes: 1,177
inherit
1451
0
1,177
xerrai
847
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on May 29, 2021 17:17:01 GMT
I don't completely agree. Inquisition had basically the same writers of DA2, with the exception of Weekes being added to the mix. While one can dislike both Hawke and the Inquisitor as protagonits, the former's lines weren't as bland as the latter. As with many things with Inquisition (the focus on the open world areas being the prime example of this), the lines of the Inquisitor were at least partially a consequence of the criticism about Hawke. I'd say this issue is more due an issue related to the protagonist being voiced, and the difficulties that comes with this approach. You have to find a balance in the tones and lines, because if you go too far, you expose yourself of the criticism that the PC isn't really you and it's more of a fixed protagonist (which is something *some* people said of both Shepard and Hawke); on the other hand, you can get criticized for making a protagonist that is too bland. I'm not saying that DA4 won't necessarily have the same situation, but I don't think it's an issue that is related to the writing staff, per se. [...] Yes, I expect games to have characters in them. Do I care who they will be, or that I will care to talk to them? Highly doubtful. They'll be there, then they'll be gone the next and good riddance to them, once more, so we can repeat that with the next title. What is there to care about? I wish Bioware would at least give us the option to murder them all, on sight, because that's the extent of their usefulness. In Skyrim I would be able to, at least. Did...did you just use Skyrim as an example of how to handle companions? The majority of them are mostly used as pack mules or subjects we can mod into (in)appropriate outfits. You learn about them sure, but none of them actually say or do anything to make them compelling or good characters. The only exception to this is Serana, a DLC companion that was clearly made with a few new ideas in mind. And its not even that great in the choice or writing department either since, among other things, its guild storylines are noted to particularly shoehorny. Want to rise up in the Companions, a group known for mercenary work and honor? Time to become a werewolf bud. Want to rise up in the Thieves Guild? Please go through the obligatory dungeon delving and fight a boss. You don't need to fill out the Cistern with merchants as you go through several professional thieving jobs, no, just kill our former leader and sell your soul to Nocturnal for an indefinite amount of time. College of Winterhold? You advance by more dungeon delving and being an errand boy. No magical mastery required. You could only have novice level flames in your arsenal, and you can become Archemage. I'm not saying Skyrim is bad game. Far from it, in fact--at least by 2011 standards. The exploration, physical beauty, and the freedom to develop whatever character you wish is breathtaking when compared to standard rpgs that class gate you. But I think we all know the modding community is all that is holding its players from being an "ephemeral crowd", as you put it.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 29, 2021 17:29:33 GMT
Did...did you just use Skyrim as an example of how to handle companions? The majority of them are mostly used as pack mules or subjects we can mod into (in)appropriate outfits. You learn about them sure, but none of them actually say or do anything to make them compelling or good characters That is exactly how I feel about every character Bioware has introduced, since DA2. With the added problem that I can't even use them as pack mules.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 847 Likes: 1,177
inherit
1451
0
1,177
xerrai
847
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on May 29, 2021 17:37:41 GMT
Did...did you just use Skyrim as an example of how to handle companions? The majority of them are mostly used as pack mules or subjects we can mod into (in)appropriate outfits. You learn about them sure, but none of them actually say or do anything to make them compelling or good characters That is exactly how I feel about every character Bioware has introduced, since DA2. With the added problem that I can't even use them as pack mules. Hm, well I suppose it is a good thing the game allows you to either dismiss or not recruit the majority of them. You may be stuck with a handful to create a complete a party, but players are allowed to ignore them a good amount of the time. I'd be all for giving them an inventory we can access though. Maybe even a return of the murder knife?
|
|
lk13
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 251 Likes: 696
inherit
11837
0
696
lk13
251
Feb 17, 2021 21:09:45 GMT
February 2021
lk13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by lk13 on May 29, 2021 17:39:41 GMT
Imagine a spectrum. On the left you have the blankest of blank slates, the Dragonborn of Skyrim. On the right, you have a fully defined character like, say, Geralt of Rivia from Witcher 3. The DA protagonists are nestled nicely in the middle of that for me, with the inquisitor being slightly further to the left than Hawke and the Warden. The latter two having more context added to them because we get to know their families/friends and more of their life from before the start of the game. I never found them bland, I'm good at filling in the blanks. I prefer the blanks beings there so I can fill them for myself to begin with but having enough context to know who my character is in this world. I'd say this issue is more due an issue related to the protagonist being voiced, and the difficulties that comes with this approach. You have to find a balance in the tones and lines, because if you go too far, you expose yourself of the criticism that the PC isn't really you and it's more of a fixed protagonist (which is something *some* people said of both Shepard and Hawke); on the other hand, you can get criticized for making a protagonist that is too bland. Personal thing, but I found I really like my protagonists voiced. It helps to form an image of the character in my head and I prefer full dialogue cutscenes. Considering the backlash Fallout 4 got though, I'm probably alone with that. If I had to be excessively nitpicky, I'd say that the Warden and the Inquisitor (for most of the game) are definitely closer to the "blank slates" side, while Hawke is closer to the "fully defined" side. But in my opinion, they all worked for their respective games. The Warden needs to be "blank-slatey" to fit all the various origin stories and help players shape their own vision of a Grey Warden. Hawke being a defined character was one of the best decisions they could've made for DA2, and it's one of its strengths, in my opinion. You couldn't have things like Sarcastic Hawke with a blank-slate, non-voiced character. I hear some arguing that the Inquisitor should've been similar to Hawke now, but people forget many were clamoring for multiple playable races and the return of origin stories before release. It's understandable why they went the safe route and made the Inquisitor more blank-slatey. At the same time, though, I feel the Inquisitor progressively gets bits and pieces of characterization all throughout Inquisition, and by the end of Trespasser they feel more similar to Hawke than the Warden. Shepard is a special case. I think the success of Shepard resides in the fact they're probably at the dead center of this scale, but somehow manage to be liked by both those who prefer blank-slate main characters and those who prefer defined main characters.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 29, 2021 17:48:18 GMT
That is exactly how I feel about every character Bioware has introduced, since DA2. With the added problem that I can't even use them as pack mules. Hm, well I suppose it is a good thing the game allows you to either dismiss or not recruit the majority of them. You may be stuck with a handful to create a complete a party, but players are allowed to ignore them a good amount of the time. I'd be all for giving them an inventory we can access though. Maybe even a return of the murder knife? The problem is that you've already wasted time talking to them. And honestly, in Inquisition, I wanted everyone to just shut the fuck up. By the time I got to the 30 hour mark of my playthrough and having recruited a few extra characters, the only one I didn't want to murder was Blackwall. Josephine, Cassandra, Iron Bull, Cole, Solas, Sera, all should have got my sword through them. Which is why I'm not interested in giving any new Bioware characters a chance. I don't want them.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 847 Likes: 1,177
inherit
1451
0
1,177
xerrai
847
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on May 29, 2021 18:13:01 GMT
Hm, well I suppose it is a good thing the game allows you to either dismiss or not recruit the majority of them. You may be stuck with a handful to create a complete a party, but players are allowed to ignore them a good amount of the time. I'd be all for giving them an inventory we can access though. Maybe even a return of the murder knife? The problem is that you've already wasted time talking to them. And honestly, in Inquisition, I wanted everyone to just shut the fuck up. By the time I got to the 30 hour mark of my playthrough and having recruited a few extra characters, the only one I didn't want to murder was Blackwall. Josephine, Cassandra, Iron Bull, Cole, Solas, Sera, all should have got my sword through them. Which is why I'm not interested in giving any new Bioware characters a chance. I don't want them. I mean, you do you man. With the exception of some select characters who are there for main quest related reasons, players can refuse virtually every other companion. Just don't recruit Iron Bull, Cole, and so on when their introductions are over. In Sera's case you can dismiss her whenever you want because she's a literal wandering criminal. Although god knows I would have loved to have a dismiss option for other characters like Vivienne and Iron Bull. But senselessly murdering them may have been too much and make no sense narrative wise since we we're the lawful Inquisitor and all, but I can certainly see more lawless figures like our potential DA4 protag getting that option for at least some of thier followers... But if you don't want to recruit anyone at all because you don't want them, that works too. It will really cut down on the amount of triggerable cutscenes, side quests, and other ambient dialogue you don't want to deal with.
|
|
The Elder King
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
Posts: 6,370 Likes: 8,285
inherit
104
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:13:35 GMT
8,285
The Elder King
6,370
August 2016
theelderking
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
19631
|
Post by The Elder King on May 29, 2021 18:14:24 GMT
I don't completely agree. Inquisition had basically the same writers of DA2, with the exception of Weekes being added to the mix. While one can dislike both Hawke and the Inquisitor as protagonits, the former's lines weren't as bland as the latter. As with many things with Inquisition (the focus on the open world areas being the prime example of this), the lines of the Inquisitor were at least partially a consequence of the criticism about Hawke. I'd say this issue is more due an issue related to the protagonist being voiced, and the difficulties that comes with this approach. You have to find a balance in the tones and lines, because if you go too far, you expose yourself of the criticism that the PC isn't really you and it's more of a fixed protagonist (which is something *some* people said of both Shepard and Hawke); on the other hand, you can get criticized for making a protagonist that is too bland. I'm not saying that DA4 won't necessarily have the same situation, but I don't think it's an issue that is related to the writing staff, per se. Bioware has failed to make me care about any one single character they've introduced in any game, since DA2. I'm sure they all have their fans, more or less, but most of these games have not been well received and their casts are widely considered forgettable. It is difficult to strike up conversation about any of these characters and even when you do, there is little to be said. They're not particularly interesting, nor well thought out with little lasting appeal. Maybe that suits Bioware just fine, but it doesn't build fanbases. It procures an ephemeral crowd that is here today, gone tomorrow. You can't capitalize on that. In that sense, it is good that most of them will not be returning. But the expectation is that we are just getting a new batch of the same. I don't have expectations from the next Bioware game, other than it will have companions. Yes, I expect games to have characters in them. Do I care who they will be, or that I will care to talk to them? Highly doubtful. They'll be there, then they'll be gone the next and good riddance to them, once more, so we can repeat that with the next title. What is there to care about? I wish Bioware would at least give us the option to murder them all, on sight, because that's the extent of their usefulness. In Skyrim I would be able to, at least. I'd argue on the 'widely' part, but you seem quite fixated on that, and you're also assuming that because the games have not been well received (and I'd also want to point out that while DAI might've not have sold as well as they claimed, the game was well received by the critics. And I'm not talking about the awards.), all the people that didn't like the games didn't like the cast of character, which isn't necessarily true. You can find a lot of people online that don't overall like DA2, but like the companions. The reception of the game overall, and the reception of the characters, isn't the same thing. Mind you, I'm not here to argue that the majority of players liked the characters, but that it can't be quantified by sales or reception, or even what you can discuss on social media or private forums/discord. You could be very well right, that the majority of players found the cast of both DA2 and DAI forgettable, but there's no way to actually know for certain, expecially on how 'wide' the gap is. I wasn't talking about companions, in any case, but the main protagonist. And the issue with them is different from any issues related to the companions. Imagine a spectrum. On the left you have the blankest of blank slates, the Dragonborn of Skyrim. On the right, you have a fully defined character like, say, Geralt of Rivia from Witcher 3. The DA protagonists are nestled nicely in the middle of that for me, with the inquisitor being slightly further to the left than Hawke and the Warden. The latter two having more context added to them because we get to know their families/friends and more of their life from before the start of the game. I never found them bland, I'm good at filling in the blanks. I prefer the blanks beings there so I can fill them for myself to begin with but having enough context to know who my character is in this world. I'd say this issue is more due an issue related to the protagonist being voiced, and the difficulties that comes with this approach. You have to find a balance in the tones and lines, because if you go too far, you expose yourself of the criticism that the PC isn't really you and it's more of a fixed protagonist (which is something *some* people said of both Shepard and Hawke); on the other hand, you can get criticized for making a protagonist that is too bland. Personal thing, but I found I really like my protagonists voiced. It helps to form an image of the character in my head and I prefer full dialogue cutscenes. Considering the backlash Fallout 4 got though, I'm probably alone with that. I think it's a fair opinion, but I wasn't talking about preferences, but only on the difficulties to find a proper balance. And F4's backlash was, I think, more related to the fact that Bethesda game were always more about giving you a fully blank slate, which the voice (and fixed background) clashed against it. Bioware games were overall never as free in this regard as Bethesda's, expecially DA and ME. It's telling that DAI in way gave more of a blank slate vibe, then DAO.
|
|
luketrevelyan
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,793 Likes: 6,261
inherit
328
0
6,261
luketrevelyan
1,793
August 2016
luketrevelyan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by luketrevelyan on May 29, 2021 18:37:31 GMT
Warden was unvoiced but had good dialogue variety. I think Hawke was a bit too defined but had great dialogue and voice acting. The Inquisitor was fine as a blank slate but the dialogue was written in a way that didn't leave a lot of room for expression. That and I think it was a challenge for the VAs to all have to read their lines at the same pace as the English male so that may have caused less emotion to come out. With Trespasser they finally had a chance to be more emotive and I'd like more of that moving forward. I think you can be blank slate but still have dialogue options and voice acting that is highly varied and emotive.
|
|
yarus
N2
Posts: 188 Likes: 589
inherit
11563
0
589
yarus
188
June 2020
yarus
|
Post by yarus on May 29, 2021 18:41:26 GMT
Hm, well I suppose it is a good thing the game allows you to either dismiss or not recruit the majority of them. You may be stuck with a handful to create a complete a party, but players are allowed to ignore them a good amount of the time. I'd be all for giving them an inventory we can access though. Maybe even a return of the murder knife? The problem is that you've already wasted time talking to them. And honestly, in Inquisition, I wanted everyone to just shut the fuck up. By the time I got to the 30 hour mark of my playthrough and having recruited a few extra characters, the only one I didn't want to murder was Blackwall. Josephine, Cassandra, Iron Bull, Cole, Solas, Sera, all should have got my sword through them. Which is why I'm not interested in giving any new Bioware characters a chance. I don't want them. This was a legit annoyance. With characters like Josephine you had to sift through so much dialogue and it keeps updating again and again, meanwhile Leliana and a few other characters were basically mum for most of the game.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 29, 2021 18:45:38 GMT
But if you don't want to recruit anyone at all because you don't want them, that works too. It will really cut down on the amount of triggerable cutscenes, side quests, and other ambient dialogue you don't want to deal with. I'd actually like it, if I could outright murder them. Imagine if we could outright murder Solas. We'd be done now. I wanted to murder him, after the fifth time I talked to him. I didn't want to just send him away. I wanted to cause him harm. To Owen from Anthem, as well. I wasn't talking about companions, in any case, but the main protagonist. And the issue with them is different from any issues related to the companions. The main protagonist has the same general flavour as the other characters, in their writing. If it's Hawke, the Inquisitor or someone new, I don't care. They'll be the same shit again. The game will sell less than Inquisition did, because of Bioware's rep and that will probably be the end of the Dragon Age franchise. A franchise that should have been regarded as GoT for video games. Pre-season 8 GoT.
|
|
inherit
1587
0
1,772
Walter Black
1,290
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
|
Post by Walter Black on May 29, 2021 21:19:48 GMT
But if you don't want to recruit anyone at all because you don't want them, that works too. It will really cut down on the amount of triggerable cutscenes, side quests, and other ambient dialogue you don't want to deal with. I'd actually like it, if I could outright murder them. Imagine if we could outright murder Solas. We'd be done now. I wanted to murder him, after the fifth time I talked to him. I didn't want to just send him away. I wanted to cause him harm. To Owen from Anthem, as well. I wasn't talking about companions, in any case, but the main protagonist. And the issue with them is different from any issues related to the companions. The main protagonist has the same general flavour as the other characters, in their writing. If it's Hawke, the Inquisitor or someone new, I don't care. They'll be the same shit again. The game will sell less than Inquisition did, because of Bioware's rep and that will probably be the end of the Dragon Age franchise. A franchise that should have been regarded as GoT for video games. Pre-season 8 GoT. Just out of curiosity, what exactly was so different about Inquisition's Companions for you, in comparison with the previous games'?
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 29, 2021 21:50:53 GMT
Just out of curiosity, what exactly was so different about Inquisition's Companions for you, in comparison with the previous games'? A few examples. So I went to talk to Solas. And the first conversation we have is about agriculture. And I'm like ... OK. So I went the second time and he talks to me about sanitation. And I'm wondering why do I talk to this person. So I go talk to him a third time and now he's talking to me about democratic elections. And I'm thinking, is the next conversation I'm going to have with Solas going to be about the public elementary school system, or basic economics? Because I really don't give a fuck about any of this. And then I talked to Varric and I talked to Cassandra and their conversations were "Varric, you're in trouble" followed by "Save me, Inquisitor". And we did this something like 4 times, before the conversation escalated to Cassandra being a fan of Varrick's gay fanfiction novel, at which point we went to "Varric, finish your book, or you're in trouble" followed by "Save me, Inquisitor". Like this is some "Three Stooges" skit. Not to mention the thrilling banter comprised by Cassandra saying "Did you just stereotype me, because I am a woman? You should be more sensitive in the future", Solas going "Did you just stereotype me, because I am an elf? You should be more sensitive in the future" and Varrick going "Did you just stereotype, because I am a dwarf? You should be more sensitive in the future". And I really didn't care about being more sensitive toward them in the future. Fuck them. Then I met mr. Sarah Michelle Gellar, who only has one voice, Fred from Scooby Doo and I never felt like talking to him, then I met Sera, who I didn't even want to deal wish, so I sent her straight away, then I met Blackwall, who was OK and the rest I forget, because I was very much done with the game, at that point. I wasn't going to play a game with a bunch of nobodies, just for the off line by Blackwall, not to mention that the VO I chose for my Inquisitor at that point was getting on my nerves, because he was the most "m'lady" kind of guy I've ever had the displeasure of playing, I'd rather neck myself, than keep playing. In stark contrast, let's take Grunt from ME2. In his introduction, he takes out 4-5 cerberus crewmen and fights Shepard in a tense scene. Later, when you talk to him, he tells you about the great Krogan generals of the past, their glorious battles, their strategies, he talks about literature and what it means to be a Krogan, a tankborn, the mother voice, interesting things. You talk to Thane and he talks about his training as an assassin, his wife and her tragic death, he's like a film noir assassin, he's unique, interesting, he has a backstory, vivid in his descriptions of his memories. You have Jack who talks about her time as a pirate, the cult she was in for a while, her dead "sisters" that she immortalized as tattoos on her arms, Cerberus, their experiments, her biotics, stuff I want to hear about. And are any of them "sensitive" about each other? No. They're hardened. Grunt warns Shepard that if Garrus so much as looks at him wrong, he's going down, Jack tries to literally kill Miranda in the mesh hall, there's tension, but these people can handle themselves and if any of the others have a problem with them, that's their problem to handle. They're not going to let the others try and get under their skin and if they have a problem with someone, they're going to confront them about it. They're not going to whine about how the others are being "insensitive". They're not children.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 29, 2021 22:01:21 GMT
Just out of curiosity, what exactly was so different about Inquisition's Companions for you, in comparison with the previous games'? A few examples. So I went to talk to Solas. And the first conversation we have is about agriculture. And I'm like ... OK. So I went the second time and he talks to me about sanitation. And I'm wondering why do I talk to this person. So I go talk to him a third time and now he's talking to me about democratic elections. And I'm thinking, is the next conversation I'm going to have with Solas going to be about the public elementary school system, or basic economics? Because I really don't give a fuck about any of this. And then I talked to Varric and I talked to Cassandra and their conversations were "Varric, you're in trouble" followed by "Save me, Inquisitor". And we did this something like 4 times, before the conversation escalated to Cassandra being a fan of Varrick's gay fanfiction novel, at which point we went to "Varric, finish your book, or you're in trouble" followed by "Save me, Inquisitor". Like this is some "Three Stooges" skit. Not to mention the thrilling banter comprised by Cassandra saying "Did you just stereotype me, because I am a woman? You should be more sensitive in the future", Solas going "Did you just stereotype me, because I am an elf? You should be more sensitive in the future" and Varrick going "Did you just stereotype, because I am a dwarf? You should be more sensitive in the future". And I really didn't care about being more sensitive toward them in the future. Fuck them. Then I met mr. Sarah Michelle Gellar, who only has one voice, Fred from Scooby Doo and I never felt like talking to him, then I met Sera, who I didn't even want to deal wish, so I sent her straight away, then I met Blackwall, who was OK and the rest I forget, because I was very much done with the game, at that point. I wasn't going to play a game with a bunch of nobodies, just for the off line by Blackwall, not to mention that the VO I chose for my Inquisitor at that point was getting on my nerves, because he was the most "m'lady" kind of guy I've ever had the displeasure of playing, I'd rather neck myself, than keep playing. In stark contrast, let's take Grunt from ME2. In his introduction, he takes out 4-5 cerberus crewmen and fights Shepard in a tense scene. Later, when you talk to him, he tells you about the great Krogan generals of the past, their glorious battles, their strategies, he talks about literature and what it means to be a Krogan, a tankborn, the mother voice, interesting things. You talk to Thane and he talks about his training as an assassin, his wife and her tragic death, he's like a film noir assassin, he's unique, interesting, he has a backstory, vivid in his descriptions of his memories. You have Jack who talks about her time as a pirate, the cult she was in for a while, her dead "sisters" that she immortalized as tattoos on her arms, Cerberus, their experiments, her biotics, stuff I want to hear about. And are any of them "sensitive" about each other? No. They're hardened. Grunt warns Shepard that if Garrus so much as looks at him wrong, he's going down, Jack tries to literally kill Miranda in the mesh hall, there's tension, but these people can handle themselves and if any of the others have a problem with them, that's their problem to handle. They're not going to let the others try and get under their skin and if they have a problem with someone, they're going to confront them about it. They're not going to whine about how the others are being "insensitive". They're not children. Okay, you’re trolling. Most of the stuff you mention never happens, even in the examples of characters you like (like Grunt taking out Cerberus crewmen).
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 29, 2021 22:06:57 GMT
Okay, you’re trolling. Most of the stuff you mention never happens, even in the examples of characters you like (like Grunt taking out Cerberus crewmen). When you open up the tank, he comes out rolling into the crewmen that are with Shepard at the time and takes them all down, before wrestling it with Shepard. They are on a Cerberus ship and they are crewmen.
You're also calling me a liar. So, thanks.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 29, 2021 22:09:49 GMT
Okay, you’re trolling. Most of the stuff you mention never happens, even in the examples of characters you like (like Grunt taking out Cerberus crewmen). When you open up the tank, he comes out rolling into the crewmen that are with Shepard at the time and takes them all down, before wrestling it with Shepard. They are on a Cerberus ship and they are crewmen.
You're also calling me a liar. So, thanks.
There are no crewman when the tank is opened, just Shepard. And that’s hardly the most egregious example of your making stuff up or warping actual events to discredit a game you don’t like.
|
|
bierkrug
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 522 Likes: 1,098
inherit
11900
0
Dec 11, 2024 11:21:12 GMT
1,098
bierkrug
522
May 2021
bierkrug
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by bierkrug on May 29, 2021 22:10:31 GMT
This was a legit annoyance. With characters like Josephine you had to sift through so much dialogue and it keeps updating again and again, meanwhile Leliana and a few other characters were basically mum for most of the game. I was always happy when I came back from adventuring and saw that the companions and advisors had new dialogue. Talking to them is one of my favorite parts. Even with Blackwall who is otherwise one of the most boring characters ever.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 29, 2021 22:16:56 GMT
There are no crewman when the tank is opened, just Shepard. He's not alone when he opens the tanks. Correction. He is alone when he opens the tank. I played through that a few weeks ago. I should remember that. I do have some memory problems.
|
|
inherit
1047
0
Dec 12, 2024 16:23:49 GMT
2,033
ClarkKent
1,122
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
|
Post by ClarkKent on May 29, 2021 22:38:18 GMT
The real kicker with the Inquisitor was the absence of interesting choices. Commander Shepard wasn't exactly a barrel of charisma, but he/she got placed into a ton of interesting situations with interesting choices/consequences.
The inquisitor rarely had such agency. I actually really enjoyed the sequences where the Inquisitor sat on his throne and presided judgement. It was one of the few times I felt the Inquisitor had any great agency with consequences.
A Dragon Age protagonist with no murder knife is no Dragon Age protagonist at all.
|
|
wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 2,879
inherit
1492
0
Dec 12, 2024 13:16:22 GMT
2,879
wright1978
1,815
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
|
Post by wright1978 on May 29, 2021 22:45:25 GMT
I absolutely agree. I just don't think new characters, or protagonist, will be any better. It is, more or less, the same writing team at Bioware, over the past 10 years and this is what they like to write. Unless they take a huge leap outside their comfort zone, I don't think anything is going to change. And, don't get me wrong, it's not like most other companies do a better job out there, but at least they don't emphasize the writing that much in their games. I don't completely agree. Inquisition had basically the same writers of DA2, with the exception of Weekes being added to the mix. While one can dislike both Hawke and the Inquisitor as protagonits, the former's lines weren't as bland as the latter. As with many things with Inquisition (the focus on the open world areas being the prime example of this), the lines of the Inquisitor were at least partially a consequence of the criticism about Hawke. I'd say this issue is more due an issue related to the protagonist being voiced, and the difficulties that comes with this approach. You have to find a balance in the tones and lines, because if you go too far, you expose yourself of the criticism that the PC isn't really you and it's more of a fixed protagonist (which is something *some* people said of both Shepard and Hawke); on the other hand, you can get criticized for making a protagonist that is too bland. I'm not saying that DA4 won't necessarily have the same situation, but I don't think it's an issue that is related to the writing staff, per se. My fear is that they seem to want to remove breadth of choice in recent outings, which ends up leading to Blanditude. Hopefully with da4 they’ll change tack and offer broader options.
|
|