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Post by smilesja on Jun 11, 2021 17:41:02 GMT
Lian's quips are at least more interesting that "What happened here?" (Jenkins). "Smells like smoke and death." Kaidan. Then we get to Therum, where if you click on Ashley she says things like "I think my eyeballs have dried out." or "Dare you to spit over the side." or Kaidan "Those tiles remind me of a bathroom floor." or Ashley on the Citadel "They've made themselves quite the lake. I wonder if anyone ever drowned in it." or Kaidans "Big place."
Get real.
Yeah those are some cheesy one-off lines. Imagine if their entire characters were built around that shtick and that you had them with you throughout a game artificially inflated to 50+ hours with fetch quests. How annoying would that be? "Who said anything about love? I'm just trying to get you in bed." Says paragon Shep while he gives Miranda creepy smiles, the MET had a lot of cringe dialogue that made me want to roll my eyes the same with ME: A though.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jun 11, 2021 17:47:20 GMT
Yeah those are some cheesy one-off lines. Imagine if their entire characters were built around that shtick and that you had them with you throughout a game artificially inflated to 50+ hours with fetch quests. How annoying would that be? "Who said anything about love? I'm just trying to get you in bed." Says paragon Shep while he gives Miranda creepy smiles, the MET had a lot of cringe dialogue that made me want to roll my eyes the same with ME: A though. Yep there are those in every ME game - but some of them are the ones we love or like Then again there is 10 years in between, a lot has changed. I didnt get those stalker/creepy/sexologist-attacker stuff so much in MEA, its more natural I think.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 17:50:16 GMT
"Who said anything about love? I'm just trying to get you in bed." Says paragon Shep while he gives Miranda creepy smiles, the MET had a lot of cringe dialogue that made me want to roll my eyes the same with ME: A though. Yep there are those in every ME game - but some of them are the ones we love or like Then again there is 10 years in between, a lot has changed. I didnt get those stalker/creepy/sexologist-attacker stuff so much in MEA, its more natural I think. How they handled the flirts definitely improved. Not only was choosing Paragon options now not meaning you wanted to bang them (because that's the only reason you're nice to people apparently) but also I love how much more options you got in terms of how you can flirt. You didn't have to at every opportunity, some dialogue had different types of flirts, some romances let you choose how the relationship would be, etc. And all written a lot more naturally and authentically.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 11, 2021 17:50:38 GMT
You can feel how bored the VAs are, how bored they are with their own characters. Sorry, this really hurts your case (among many other things). The VAs loved working on MEA, many of them still gushing about it and their characters years later and wanting to do more with them. Oh yeah, they were totally bored with it. Many of them? Gushing years later? If anything there is more from the va's for the trilogy than anything from any of the va's in MEA.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jun 11, 2021 17:53:29 GMT
Yep there are those in every ME game - but some of them are the ones we love or like Then again there is 10 years in between, a lot has changed. I didnt get those stalker/creepy/sexologist-attacker stuff so much in MEA, its more natural I think. How they handled the flirts definitely improved. Not only was choosing Paragon options now meaning you wanted to bang them (because that's the only reason you're nice to people apparently) but also I love how much more options you got in terms of how you can flirt. You didn't have to at every opportunity, some dialogue had different types of flirts, some romances let you choose how the relationship would be, etc. And all written a lot more naturally and authentically. This. So much this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 17:58:32 GMT
"Who said anything about love? I'm just trying to get you in bed." Says paragon Shep while he gives Miranda creepy smiles, the MET had a lot of cringe dialogue that made me want to roll my eyes the same with ME: A though. Yep there are those in every ME game - but some of them are the ones we love or like Then again there is 10 years in between, a lot has changed. I didnt get those stalker/creepy/sexologist-attacker stuff so much in MEA, its more natural I think. That's the unfortunate reality. A fanbase that's locked onto the humor they enjoyed as teenagers as being somehow objectively superior writing... when it's simply not. One can't have an conversation analyzing the qualitative differences in the writing and in the dialogue mechanics of the game here... because it all boils down to comments about what is 'boring" or "funny" ... and those are merely based on personal taste... and the personal tastes of a large portion of Bioware's ME fanbase simply hasn't grown up in the last 14 years.
I think Bioware should go back to that old formula... regardless of how interior it really is. Write 1/4 of the actual dialogue in the game and allow the players to click on multiple suggestions that deliver the exact same line... letting them delude themselves that one is more renegade or paragon than another... and then let them shoot the NPC in the face and use a charm or intimidate line to get the main villain to off themselves at the end.
Really improving on their mechanics has garnered them nothing but unwarranted grief from the so-called fans.
ETA: Addressing the complaints about ME:A not introducing a bunch of new species.... Do you think the same people are going to criticize a game set again in the Milky Way for not introducing a bunch of new species? I don't think so... they'll be just wanting the return of their favorite old ones from ME1. The biggest criticism people put onto ME:A is that it wasn't a Shepard story. If they'll be happy with the next Shepard story that hits the shelves and they spend their money to buy it, then that's good for Bioware. It may be inferior to ME:A in a lot of ways, but that's not what matters. Will it sell to the fools who buy it. That's what counts.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 11, 2021 18:21:30 GMT
Meh, they're both bad in their own rights.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 18:48:24 GMT
Addressing the complaints about ME:A not introducing a bunch of new species.... Do you think the same people are going to criticize a game set again in the Milky Way for not introducing a bunch of new species? I don't think so... they'll be just wanting the return of their favorite old ones from ME1. The biggest criticism people put onto ME:A is that it wasn't a Shepard story. If they'll be happy with the next Shepard story that hits the shelves and they spend their money to buy it, then that's good for Bioware. It may be inferior to ME:A in a lot of ways, but that's not what matters. Will it sell to the fools who buy it. That's what counts. I never got the complaint about the lack of new species. They were very upfront about how this game would be set just in one cluster, instead of a third of the galaxy like ME1 was. That’s be like a MW game based only in the Hades Gamma Cluster not having all the MW races: of course it wouldn’t. As the games went in and we entered more and more of Andromeda, more new races would come. Plus ME2 never gets criticized for introducing as many new species as MEA. It only had Vorcha, Drell, and Collectors as new just like MEA had Kett, Angara, and Remnant (all far more developed than the ME2 ones). And you hit the nail on the head. This game was doomed to panning the moment it wasn’t continuing Shepard or fixing the endings. Hopefully BioWare ignores those people.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by lavigne on Jun 11, 2021 18:58:38 GMT
This game was doomed to panning the moment it wasn’t continuing Shepard or fixing the endings. Hopefully BioWare ignores those people. Well they did that already, MEA, and it nearly killed the franchise. In the meantime they’ve brought the MET back with the LE and seemingly avoided another sh*t storm. There are definite things to take from MEA, but I’d put money on MEWC being much more familiar than MEA was.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 19:03:13 GMT
This game was doomed to panning the moment it wasn’t continuing Shepard or fixing the endings. Hopefully BioWare ignores those people. Well they did that already, MEA, and it nearly killed the franchise. In the meantime they’ve brought the MET back with the LE and seemingly avoided another sh*t storm. There are definite things to take from MEA, but I’d put money on MEWC being much more familiar than MEA was. Honestly, the LE was a mistake. It brought all the things that a decade of time buried right into the forefront again.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jun 11, 2021 19:06:28 GMT
Watching people defend the MET for the same things that get complained about in MEA is greatly entertaining. Especially since I like both the MET and MEA. Also, Peebee > Liara
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 19:16:19 GMT
Well they did that already, MEA, and it nearly killed the franchise. In the meantime they’ve brought the MET back with the LE and seemingly avoided another sh*t storm. There are definite things to take from MEA, but I’d put money on MEWC being much more familiar than MEA was. Honestly, the LE was a mistake. It brought all the things that a decade of time buried right into the forefront again. I disagree. It was the quickest and cheapest way to probably save the company... and it has sold reasonably well.
The arguments never stopped here and go back even further on the old Bioware boards long before Andromeda released.
I've given up on defending ME:A. It's a vastly superior game. Superior to its counterparts released since (i.e. Cyberpunk 2077) which were even worse buggy messes than Andromeda. Andromeda is just not in the tastes of a vocal crowd of "fans" here and they'll continue doing what they've done for the past 9 years since they became unduly offended by ME3's endings. The only way Bioware is going to get them to shut up is to remake the Trilogy from the ground up... but not by making it better... but by giving the "audience" what it wants. The same stuff ME1 put out repeated in a new ME2 and repeated again in a new ME3.
They just aren't willing to look at it any other way... so there's no point in Bioware even trying to do something else.
(in my new humble opinion, of course).
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N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,915 Likes: 7,479
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 11, 2021 19:16:49 GMT
Just like Sheploo's head is too small while that goblin Scott has too short lower legs and a laughably long torso, both the MET and MEA have their flaws.
I'm currently not feeling like replaying either, but I'd absolutely be interested in a new game with a new protagonist.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jun 11, 2021 19:16:54 GMT
Addressing the complaints about ME:A not introducing a bunch of new species.... Do you think the same people are going to criticize a game set again in the Milky Way for not introducing a bunch of new species? I don't think so... they'll be just wanting the return of their favorite old ones from ME1. The biggest criticism people put onto ME:A is that it wasn't a Shepard story. If they'll be happy with the next Shepard story that hits the shelves and they spend their money to buy it, then that's good for Bioware. It may be inferior to ME:A in a lot of ways, but that's not what matters. Will it sell to the fools who buy it. That's what counts. I never got the complaint about the lack of new species. They were very upfront about how this game would be set just in one cluster, instead of a third of the galaxy like ME1 was. That’s be like a MW game based only in the Hades Gamma Cluster not having all the MW races: of course it wouldn’t. As the games went in and we entered more and more of Andromeda, more new races would come. Plus ME2 never gets criticized for introducing as many new species as MEA. It only had Vorcha, Drell, and Collectors as new just like MEA had Kett, Angara, and Remnant (all far more developed than the ME2 ones). And you hit the nail on the head. This game was doomed to panning the moment it wasn’t continuing Shepard or fixing the endings. Hopefully BioWare ignores those people. ME 2 had the Vorcha, Drell, Collectors, Yahg, and it expanded on the Geth tremendously fully fleshing them out as a unique and 'alien' species. Even ME3, which was just about the Reaper invasion built up over the previous two games, managed to bring in the Protheans and Leviathans. Andromeda brings in the Angara, which were designed around being cosplay-able above all else, who are about as 'alien' to humans as a person from Denmark is an 'alien' to a person from the UK. And they bring in the Khett, who are a knock-off version of the Collectors that manage to be about as effective as a Saturday morning cartoon villain when it comes to being a threat to the player or the Initiative (save when the plot magically teleports the big bad on board the Hyperion; and even then he doesn't even inflict that much damage to a facility completely lacking in any offensive weaponry). The Remnant have even less personality and characterization than the ME 1 Geth; being mindless drones controlled by sudoku for as far as the game reveals about them; and could be almost in the same category as the nameless xeno fauna you kill for xp throughout the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 19:16:57 GMT
Watching people defend the MET for the same things that get complained about in MEA is greatly entertaining. Especially since I like both the MET and MEA. Also, Peebee > Liara Indeed. Also, ME1 Liara > PeeBee > ME3 Liara > ME2 Liara Though best Asari teammate is Lexi.
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N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 188 Likes: 413
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Post by lavigne on Jun 11, 2021 19:17:07 GMT
Honestly, the LE was a mistake. It brought all the things that a decade of time buried right into the forefront again. I totally get why you say that. I think the problem is that those things from a decade ago aren’t so much buried as they’ve been parked. It’s inevitable that whichever direction future ME went in, all that baggage is coming back out again. Ignoring it doesn’t work. They tried that with Andromeda and it couldn’t have gone much worse. I honestly think ME is in the last chance saloon with WC. To that end I can’t see BW not running to safe ground. They can’t, or won’t take a gamble like MEA was. That being said, I also don’t believe that MEA should be totally ignored either.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 19:20:06 GMT
Honestly, the LE was a mistake. It brought all the things that a decade of time buried right into the forefront again. I disagree. It was the quickest and cheapest way to probably save the company... and it has sold reasonably well.
The arguments never stopped here and go back even further on the old Bioware boards long before Andromeda released.
I've given up on defending ME:A. It's a vastly superior game. Superior to its counterparts released since (i.e. Cyberpunk 2077) which were even worse buggy messes than Andromeda. Andromeda is just not in the tastes of a vocal crowd of "fans" here and they'll continue doing what they've done for the past 9 years since they became unduly offended by ME3's endings. The only way Bioware is going to get them to shut up is to remake the Trilogy from the ground up... but not by making it better... but by giving the "audience" what it wants. The same stuff ME1 put out repeated in a new ME2 and repeated again in a new ME3.
They just aren't willing to look at it any other way... so there's no point in Bioware even trying to do something else.
(in my new humble opinion, of course).
Short term gain, long term loss. Quite frankly, what happened here doesn't matter. We are a tiny, tiny, tiny percent of the playerbase. Most moved on, but now it's all back and fresh. Same for all new players. Which as I said, is one reason why I hope Bioware doesn't. These "fans" need to learn that throwing a tantrum for a decade won't get you what you want, or at least it shouldn't.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 19:27:17 GMT
I never got the complaint about the lack of new species. They were very upfront about how this game would be set just in one cluster, instead of a third of the galaxy like ME1 was. That’s be like a MW game based only in the Hades Gamma Cluster not having all the MW races: of course it wouldn’t. As the games went in and we entered more and more of Andromeda, more new races would come. Plus ME2 never gets criticized for introducing as many new species as MEA. It only had Vorcha, Drell, and Collectors as new just like MEA had Kett, Angara, and Remnant (all far more developed than the ME2 ones). And you hit the nail on the head. This game was doomed to panning the moment it wasn’t continuing Shepard or fixing the endings. Hopefully BioWare ignores those people. ME 2 had the Vorcha, Drell, Collectors, Yahg, and it expanded on the Geth tremendously fully fleshing them out as a unique and 'alien' species. Even ME3, which was just about the Reaper invasion built up over the previous two games, managed to bring in the Protheans and Leviathans. Andromeda brings in the Angara, which were designed around being cosplay-able above all else, who are about as 'alien' to humans as a person from Denmark is an 'alien' to a person from the UK. And they bring in the Khett, who are a knock-off version of the Collectors that manage to be about as effective as a Saturday morning cartoon villain when it comes to being a threat to the player or the Initiative (save when the plot magically teleports the big bad on board the Hyperion; and even then he doesn't even inflict that much damage to a facility completely lacking in any offensive weaponry). The Remnant have even less personality and characterization than the ME 1 Geth; being mindless drones controlled by sudoku for as far as the game reveals about them; and could be almost in the same category as the nameless xeno fauna you kill for xp throughout the game. The Yahg were a single character in a DLC that barely expands on them. They are smart but super violent so are quarantined. That's it. So to use MEA, they are closest to one of the Kett vassal races, maybe the Jardaan. Saying the Kett are just a knockoff Collector is an insult to the Kett. For one thing, unlike the Collectors they actually have a developed culture while the bugs are just puppet husks. And the Angara are very developed, with us exploring their culture far better than the OT does with most of its since it actually shows us instead of just telling us. The fact they aren't alien enough for you is irrelevant, especially since you have the same complaint about pretty much every non-Rachni species. So the Remnant are like the Collectors. Thanks for helping my point.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jun 11, 2021 19:29:09 GMT
Honestly, the LE was a mistake. It brought all the things that a decade of time buried right into the forefront again. I totally get why you say that. I think the problem is that those things from a decade ago aren’t so much buried as they’ve been parked. It’s inevitable that whichever direction future ME went in, all that baggage is coming back out again. Ignoring it doesn’t work. They tried that with Andromeda and it couldn’t have gone much worse. I honestly think ME is in the last chance saloon with WC. To that end I can’t see BW not running to safe ground. They can’t, or won’t take a gamble like MEA was. That being said, I also don’t believe that MEA should be totally ignored either. What is WC?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 19:30:02 GMT
Honestly, the LE was a mistake. It brought all the things that a decade of time buried right into the forefront again. I totally get why you say that. I think the problem is that those things from a decade ago aren’t so much buried as they’ve been parked. It’s inevitable that whichever direction future ME went in, all that baggage is coming back out again. Ignoring it doesn’t work. They tried that with Andromeda and it couldn’t have gone much worse. I honestly think ME is in the last chance saloon with WC. To that end I can’t see BW not running to safe ground. They can’t, or won’t take a gamble like MEA was. That being said, I also don’t believe that MEA should be totally ignored either. Oh sure, but it would have been a lot more minor with most people going "Are you still going on about that?" to those who carry that baggage. Except continuing with Shepard or making a canon ending or whatever isn't safe ground. It's just replacing one dissatisfied group with another. Meanwhile unlike MEA, it sacrifices a large part of the soul of the franchise in the process and will forever trap them. Will Continue is my guess. So same game as NME or ME5.
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N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 188 Likes: 413
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Post by lavigne on Jun 11, 2021 19:30:54 GMT
Sorry, abbreviation overload. WC = Will Continue, ie ME:Next.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 11, 2021 19:33:50 GMT
I totally get why you say that. I think the problem is that those things from a decade ago aren’t so much buried as they’ve been parked. It’s inevitable that whichever direction future ME went in, all that baggage is coming back out again. Ignoring it doesn’t work. They tried that with Andromeda and it couldn’t have gone much worse. I honestly think ME is in the last chance saloon with WC. To that end I can’t see BW not running to safe ground. They can’t, or won’t take a gamble like MEA was. That being said, I also don’t believe that MEA should be totally ignored either. What is WC? Will Continue.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jun 11, 2021 19:37:54 GMT
Thanks guys! I didn't know the new ME was being called Will Continue.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 11, 2021 19:39:13 GMT
Well they did that already, MEA, and it nearly killed the franchise. In the meantime they’ve brought the MET back with the LE and seemingly avoided another sh*t storm. There are definite things to take from MEA, but I’d put money on MEWC being much more familiar than MEA was. Honestly, the LE was a mistake. It brought all the things that a decade of time buried right into the forefront again. From what I've been reading and hearing, it was a good thing Bioware released a remaster. It's getting a lot of positive feedback. It looks like it might outsell MEA. EA will be pleased by that.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 11, 2021 19:41:21 GMT
Thanks guys! I didn't know the new ME was being called Will Continue. It's not. That's the name of the main character. The female name is Wilma Continue.
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