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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 11, 2021 19:43:10 GMT
Honestly, the LE was a mistake. It brought all the things that a decade of time buried right into the forefront again. From what I've been reading and hearing, it was a good thing Bioware released a remaster. It's getting a lot of positive feedback. It looks like it might outsell MEA. EA will be pleased by that. There's also that movie (which I highly doubt that it'll do well given movies based on video games don't do very well). Seems all attention is on the MET rather than MEA....
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 19:44:21 GMT
From what I've been reading and hearing, it was a good thing Bioware released a remaster. It's getting a lot of positive feedback. It looks like it might outsell MEA. EA will be pleased by that. There's also that movie (which I highly doubt that it'll do well given movies based on video games don't do very well). Seems all attention is on the MET rather than MEA.... It doesn't follow a fuzzy animal mascot character, therefore it will do terribly.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 11, 2021 19:45:41 GMT
There's also that movie (which I highly doubt that it'll do well given movies based on video games don't do very well). Seems all attention is on the MET rather than MEA.... It doesn't follow a fuzzy animal mascot character, therefore it will do terribly. But would Wrex or Grunt fill that role I wonder?... 😆😉
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 19:51:50 GMT
It doesn't follow a fuzzy animal mascot character, therefore it will do terribly. But would Wrex or Grunt fill that role I wonder?... 😆😉 Maybe Grunt, but it doesn't follow him. I fear this movie, aside from not having the things that made ME special like choices, is going to fall into the same pitfalls that movies like the Tomb Raider movie did. As a movie it'll be fine, but it's just retelling the game story. So not only is it not as engaging (instead of an active player we're just a passive watcher), but being the same will beg the question "Why should I watch this when I can play this?"
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 11, 2021 19:55:38 GMT
But would Wrex or Grunt fill that role I wonder?... 😆😉 Maybe Grunt, but it doesn't follow him. I fear this movie, aside from not having the things that made ME special like choices, is going to fall into the same pitfalls that movies like the Tomb Raider movie did. As a movie it'll be fine, but it's just retelling the game story. So not only is it not as engaging (instead of an active player we're just a passive watcher), but being the same will beg the question "Why should I watch this when I can play this?" Which TR movies? The first two or that reboot? Then again, both were bad.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 19:56:26 GMT
Maybe Grunt, but it doesn't follow him. I fear this movie, aside from not having the things that made ME special like choices, is going to fall into the same pitfalls that movies like the Tomb Raider movie did. As a movie it'll be fine, but it's just retelling the game story. So not only is it not as engaging (instead of an active player we're just a passive watcher), but being the same will beg the question "Why should I watch this when I can play this?" Which TR movies? The first two or that reboot? Then again, both were bad. The reboot one, not the Angelina Jolie ones.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 11, 2021 20:00:21 GMT
Which TR movies? The first two or that reboot? Then again, both were bad. The reboot one, not the Angelina Jolie ones. Yeah, it was bad. Ripping off the game that it was based on then inserting it's own brand of BS didn't do it any favours. Makes me wonder if this ME movie will do the same.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 11, 2021 20:03:25 GMT
Can't say I am too much focused on anything beyond ME 2 at this point given how much of a blast I am playing it again and getting all the dialogue prompts unlocked and everything but I can say I am very much looking forward to running through Andromeda once I am through this run on the trilogy.
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 11, 2021 20:05:54 GMT
I briefly considered playing MEA after my current (2nd) MELE run. It does a lot of things well, naturally improving upon the formula.
The light-hearted tone, though, ruins my immersion every time. Plus, the very best of MEA is so late in the game. I've sputtered to a halt so many times in MEA near the middle of the game.
The gameplay is so good. I just don't like the setting and story as much. They have a lot of good stories to tell in a sequel, but they'd need to ditch that light-hearted tone. The goofy banter and high school feel is no more welcome or needed than the juvenile ass shots or robot camel toes.
I'm happy to keep replaying MELE well into the foreseeable future.
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Post by lavigne on Jun 11, 2021 20:31:25 GMT
From what I've been reading and hearing, it was a good thing Bioware released a remaster. It's getting a lot of positive feedback. It looks like it might outsell MEA. EA will be pleased by that. It’s a timely temperature check, with both fans and critics. Looks like it’s doing well on both fronts. I’m sure that won’t be lost on BW/EA.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 11, 2021 20:31:46 GMT
I briefly considered playing MEA after my current (2nd) MELE run. It does a lot of things well, naturally improving upon the formula. The light-hearted tone, though, ruins my immersion every time. Plus, the very best of MEA is so late in the game. I've sputtered to a halt so many times in MEA near the middle of the game. The gameplay is so good. I just don't like the setting and story as much. They have a lot of good stories to tell in a sequel, but they'd need to ditch that light-hearted tone. The goofy banter and high school feel is no more welcome or needed than the juvenile ass shots or robot camel toes. I'm happy to keep replaying MELE well into the foreseeable future. I think this has kind of been a problem that has sort of been a Mass Effect staple at this point. Mass Effect 1 really didn't get good and *click* until we got to Virmire and then the rest of the plot was taken up to 9. Mass Effect 2 didn't really *click* until the Suicide Mission which made everything come together and all the story viginettes and character building you have been doing over the last 35 ish hours finally comes together in one glorious explosion of awesome. And Andromeda really didn't fully click until the Archon hijacks the Hyperion and causes all the issues with the end of the game and bringing Heleus together for the final push. Now each one of the games was full of the occasional interesting moment and cool set piece and the GP was good and the RP was solid but without the ending to these games and the last act being as good as they were I would have a far different opinion on them, especially 2. Now there really isn't anything wrong with this because I would rather have a strong ending after a good game then a bad ending at the end of a really good game... Which is what happened with Mass Effect 3 because ME 3 pulled me in pretty much as soon as it started with Mars. And it had the ocassional weird hiccup here and there, Thessia and Kai Leng still suck, but then it didn't really let me go up until Shepard was busy going up the beam to face the Catalyst. And that ending still probably prevents ME 3 from being a much better game.
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Post by lavigne on Jun 11, 2021 20:44:47 GMT
Which is what happened with Mass Effect 3 because ME 3 pulled me in pretty much as soon as it started with Mars. And it had the ocassional weird hiccup here and there, Thessia and Kai Leng still suck, but then it didn't really let me go up until Shepard was busy going up the beam to face the Catalyst. And that ending still probably prevents ME 3 from being a much better game. I wasn’t particularly a fan of the Mars mission. For me the Earth prologue, Mars and Palaven were little more than an extended tutorial for new players (remember, “Mass Effect 3 is a great place for new players to jump on board the series” 🙄). Unfortunately for ME3, instead of the battle for the Citadel, or the (clearly not 😂) suicide mission to the Collector base, we got the Bratalyst and its bullsh*t rainbow space magic middle finger.
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 11, 2021 20:53:49 GMT
I never got the complaint about the lack of new species. They were very upfront about how this game would be set just in one cluster, instead of a third of the galaxy like ME1 was. That’s be like a MW game based only in the Hades Gamma Cluster not having all the MW races: of course it wouldn’t. As the games went in and we entered more and more of Andromeda, more new races would come. Plus ME2 never gets criticized for introducing as many new species as MEA. It only had Vorcha, Drell, and Collectors as new just like MEA had Kett, Angara, and Remnant (all far more developed than the ME2 ones). And you hit the nail on the head. This game was doomed to panning the moment it wasn’t continuing Shepard or fixing the endings. Hopefully BioWare ignores those people. ME 2 had the Vorcha, Drell, Collectors, Yahg, and it expanded on the Geth tremendously fully fleshing them out as a unique and 'alien' species. Even ME3, which was just about the Reaper invasion built up over the previous two games, managed to bring in the Protheans and Leviathans. Andromeda brings in the Angara, which were designed around being cosplay-able above all else, who are about as 'alien' to humans as a person from Denmark is an 'alien' to a person from the UK. And they bring in the Khett, who are a knock-off version of the Collectors that manage to be about as effective as a Saturday morning cartoon villain when it comes to being a threat to the player or the Initiative (save when the plot magically teleports the big bad on board the Hyperion; and even then he doesn't even inflict that much damage to a facility completely lacking in any offensive weaponry). The Remnant have even less personality and characterization than the ME 1 Geth; being mindless drones controlled by sudoku for as far as the game reveals about them; and could be almost in the same category as the nameless xeno fauna you kill for xp throughout the game. Expanded the quarians, as well. Went from just 1 character to being regular NPCs and getting a major subplot. Then Andromeda deleted 3/4 of the species (including all the non humanoids) so that we could watch organic borg cartoon villains vs cosplay cat people whose "alien" trait is that they're extra emotional or something. Maybe I'm being harsh, and those two are fine in isolation, no worse than any of the MET humanoid species. However, I bet if ME2 had deleted 3/4 of the ME1 races so we could solely help the vorcha fight the collectors, it'd have been similarly criticized as a downgrade. and the Remnant aren't a race. They aren't close to sapient. One is even a combat drone power ffs. Trying to fudge the numbers with them is ridiculous. If we're counting them as a "new race" than ME2 gets to count Loki, Fenris and Ymir mechs as well as Tali's purple drone as their own unique races.
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Post by dragontartare on Jun 11, 2021 21:30:53 GMT
I fear this movie, aside from not having the things that made ME special like choices, is going to fall into the same pitfalls that movies like the Tomb Raider movie did. As a movie it'll be fine, but it's just retelling the game story. So not only is it not as engaging (instead of an active player we're just a passive watcher), but being the same will beg the question "Why should I watch this when I can play this?" I share this fear. Do we know if the movie is just going to be a retelling of the trilogy? If so, I don't think it'll be worth watching for me. Trying to compress that story into a 2 or 3 hour movie with probably a default broshep making choices I might not make, with potentially a whole new cast of voice actors for the squad, just doesn't sound like something I'd enjoy. I wish we could have a first contact war-era story instead, maybe a miniseries to give it the space it deserves. Anything that doesn't just retread the games in an inferior way. ------------------- As to the main topic of the thread (not directed specifically at Hanako), I just found MEA boring. It has nothing to do with nostalgia or ME3's endings. I played ME1 for the first time in 2017 as a 32 year old, not as a teenager (certainly not as a teenage boy ) immediately after playing ME2 and ME3 for the first time. (Yes, I played them out of order. ME2 was free at the time, so it was my entrance to the series.) I think ME3's endings are tolerable, though I prefer them modded, and ME1 is my least favorite game of the trilogy. MEA came out shortly after I finished ME1, and I really, really wanted to like it. I liked the 10 hour preview a lot. Habitat 7 was cool. So I didn't approach the game with pessimism. I just...found it boring to play, most of the time. And I think one of the more interesting revelations was shoved in at the very end of the game and then just dropped. That said, I would have preferred if they'd stuck with the Andromeda galaxy for the next game. There was so much potential to tell the story of settling a truly alien galaxy where there had been no reapers guiding evolution to make sure species were at least somewhat compatible with each other. It should have been harder and taken longer to understand the Angara. Maybe instead, there could have been an alien species that communicated using means undetectable by MW settlers. Maybe the MW settlers could have found some local wildlife that were safe to eat, only to later find out that the "animals" are a pre-spaceflight sapient race that the MW folks have been murdering for food. The quarian ark's fate should have been part of the main game. There should have been plenty of dangers and moral dilemmas here without needing to include the kett at all. I might try MEA again eventually, but I didn't even finish my second playthrough, so it may not get any better for me. The trilogy still has plenty of replay value for me, though.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 21:41:33 GMT
and the Remnant aren't a race. They aren't close to sapient. One is even a combat drone power ffs. Trying to fudge the numbers with them is ridiculous. If we're counting them as a "new race" than ME2 gets to count Loki, Fenris and Ymir mechs as well as Tali's purple drone as their own unique races. Fair enough. Though then ME2 only introduced the Vorcha and Drell, since the Collectors likewise are just drones (pun not intended) and not an actual race.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 11, 2021 22:13:08 GMT
Which is what happened with Mass Effect 3 because ME 3 pulled me in pretty much as soon as it started with Mars. And it had the ocassional weird hiccup here and there, Thessia and Kai Leng still suck, but then it didn't really let me go up until Shepard was busy going up the beam to face the Catalyst. And that ending still probably prevents ME 3 from being a much better game. I wasn’t particularly a fan of the Mars mission. For me the Earth prologue, Mars and Palaven were little more than an extended tutorial for new players (remember, “Mass Effect 3 is a great place for new players to jump on board the series” 🙄). Unfortunately for ME3, instead of the battle for the Citadel, or the (clearly not 😂) suicide mission to the Collector base, we got the Bratalyst and its bullsh*t rainbow space magic middle finger. I love Mars. Definitley one of my favorite missions from the entire series. But while that line does deserve a certain degree of ridicule I also do not think it applies in this case. Since every single video game, even those in a series, have slightly different gameplay twists and staples it does make a fair bit of sense that you should have to tutorialize...even for vets. New cover mechanics, levelling, and the heavy melee system...and weight system...was all things there were different then either of its predecessors.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 22:28:33 GMT
I wasn’t particularly a fan of the Mars mission. For me the Earth prologue, Mars and Palaven were little more than an extended tutorial for new players (remember, “Mass Effect 3 is a great place for new players to jump on board the series” 🙄). Unfortunately for ME3, instead of the battle for the Citadel, or the (clearly not 😂) suicide mission to the Collector base, we got the Bratalyst and its bullsh*t rainbow space magic middle finger. I love Mars. Definitley one of my favorite missions from the entire series. But while that line does deserve a certain degree of ridicule I also do not think it applies in this case. Since every single video game, even those in a series, have slightly different gameplay twists and staples it does make a fair bit of sense that you should have to tutorialize...even for vets. New cover mechanics, levelling, and the heavy melee system...and weight system...was all things there were different then either of its predecessors. Tutorials are a thing where devs are damned if they do and damned if they don't... and still a lot of the streamers I see couldn't find their way out of the starting area without one... when they decide to slow down enough to actually pay attention to it... which a lot don't seem to anyways.
I thought all of Bioware's ME tutorials were fairly decent and fit well into the story generally. The one thing I didn't like about Mars was the Executioner PIstol bug... such that if you changed out the Predator to it, you couldn't successfully shoot Eva. I haven't made it into ME3 yet, but I assume the Executioner's Pistol is no longer available at the start of the game now... so issue should be fixed.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 11, 2021 22:38:24 GMT
I wasn’t particularly a fan of the Mars mission. For me the Earth prologue, Mars and Palaven were little more than an extended tutorial for new players (remember, “Mass Effect 3 is a great place for new players to jump on board the series” 🙄). Unfortunately for ME3, instead of the battle for the Citadel, or the (clearly not 😂) suicide mission to the Collector base, we got the Bratalyst and its bullsh*t rainbow space magic middle finger. I love Mars. Definitley one of my favorite missions from the entire series. But while that line does deserve a certain degree of ridicule I also do not think it applies in this case. Since every single video game, even those in a series, have slightly different gameplay twists and staples it does make a fair bit of sense that you should have to tutorialize...even for vets. New cover mechanics, levelling, and the heavy melee system...and weight system...was all things there were different then either of its predecessors. Why is t'soni telling Shepard to get to cover? Why not have Anderson do that on Earth? If not Anderson, why not A/K/Vega when facing Cerberus after arriving on Mars?
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 11, 2021 22:45:46 GMT
and the Remnant aren't a race. They aren't close to sapient. One is even a combat drone power ffs. Trying to fudge the numbers with them is ridiculous. If we're counting them as a "new race" than ME2 gets to count Loki, Fenris and Ymir mechs as well as Tali's purple drone as their own unique races. Fair enough. Though then ME2 only introduced the Vorcha and Drell, since the Collectors likewise are just drones (pun not intended) and not an actual race. Disagree. The ones in the comics talk to people in a normal fashion on multiple occasions, usually to conduct their transactions. Why the ones in game don't? Don't know, perhaps they communicate in an alien manner and see no need to talk to Shepard, similar to the geth in ME1 who were definitely sapient and could likely vocalize just fine (judging by the geth memories in ME3 of them doing exactly that with the quarians, as well as the prime on Rannoch) but never deemed it necessary. Their sapience is also evidenced by there being a playable Collector in ME3MP that decided to oppose the Reapers, which is considered part of the canon. ME2 also added the Yahg as another sapient species. Doesn't really do much with them (and 3 does even less) but the potential to do so is there.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2021 22:49:48 GMT
Fair enough. Though then ME2 only introduced the Vorcha and Drell, since the Collectors likewise are just drones (pun not intended) and not an actual race. Disagree. The ones in the comics talk to people in a normal fashion on multiple occasions, usually to conduct their transactions. Why the ones in game don't? Don't know, perhaps they communicate in an alien manner and see no need to talk to Shepard, similar to the geth in ME1 who were definitely sapient and could likely vocalize just fine (judging by the geth memories in ME3 of them doing exactly that with the quarians, as well as the prime on Rannoch) but never deemed it necessary. Their sapience is also evidenced by there being a playable Collector in ME3MP that decided to oppose the Reapers, which is considered part of the canon. ME2 also added the Yahg as another sapient species. Doesn't really do much with them (and 3 does even less) but the potential to do so is there. The Collector in ME3 is being controlled by a Leviathan. It’s not self-aware. Them deciding to oppose the Reapers is propaganda to keep the Leviathans secret. And the Remnant also speak in their own language. And the Loki mechs have for that matter since they have VI intelligence. Sorry. You can’t have it both ways. Either the Remnant and Collectors count as races, or they don’t since both are just machines. Already addressed the Yahg as being akin to the three vassal races we can learn about, or maybe the Jardaan.
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Post by quarianmasterrace on Jun 11, 2021 23:21:38 GMT
Disagree. The ones in the comics talk to people in a normal fashion on multiple occasions, usually to conduct their transactions. Why the ones in game don't? Don't know, perhaps they communicate in an alien manner and see no need to talk to Shepard, similar to the geth in ME1 who were definitely sapient and could likely vocalize just fine (judging by the geth memories in ME3 of them doing exactly that with the quarians, as well as the prime on Rannoch) but never deemed it necessary. Their sapience is also evidenced by there being a playable Collector in ME3MP that decided to oppose the Reapers, which is considered part of the canon. ME2 also added the Yahg as another sapient species. Doesn't really do much with them (and 3 does even less) but the potential to do so is there. The Collector in ME3 is being controlled by a Leviathan. It’s not self-aware. Them deciding to oppose the Reapers is propaganda to keep the Leviathans secret. And the Remnant also speak in their own language. And the Loki mechs have for that matter since they have VI intelligence. Sorry. You can’t have it both ways. Either the Remnant and Collectors count as races, or they don’t since both are just machines. Already addressed the Yahg as being akin to the three vassal races we can learn about, or maybe the Jardaan. What's the source for that claim on the Awakened Collector? Do remnant bots ever conduct any sort of abstract excercise that would indicate sapience? E.g. engaging in a business transaction as above, or a religious exercise as the ME1 geth? Honest question. I only played the game once and didn't pay as much attention to the lore as to the MET. What do those 3 vassal races and the Jardaan look like? Describe their physiology, behavior, aspects of their culture, etc. I can do that for the Yahg By that sort of standard, ME3 "introduces" about a dozen races through Javik simply mentioning them in dialogue.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 11, 2021 23:40:16 GMT
Anyone else having this issue? I feel like the MET is just written so much better... There's a lot more serious moments and drama, whereas Andromeda feels like it takes the piss out of its own story and characters. Like a real light hearted story where no one really dies except the bad guy and your dad who you never cared about coz he was around for like 5 seconds. I'd only played through MEA once, but the trilogy I've played through countless times. Although admittedly I've only played ME3 like 5 times. But 95% of MET was golden, golden enough that I'm obsessed enough to spend time on these forums talking about it. But it just feels like it ends there. MEA feels like the heart and soul is gone, now it's just a pretty graphics MEMEfest.
Honestly I would rather play MEA than ME1. It's just a better game in every way possible, I'm shocked by how poor the writing is in ME1 the characters are boring the galaxy is lifeless, the main quest is dull as dirt, Saren is a lame villain, most of the side quests are annoying and some are nothing more than glorified fetch quests. Shepard acts like a super naive or as an idiot or a just a racist and a fascist. ME2 and ME3 have are slightly better games because of all the universe building and ditching the reboot of BSG "realism" story for a more traditional sci-fi story.
ME1 was released at the right time to right audience, there was no major sci-fi space opera at that time in TV and movies, other than Doctor Who and that was show rebooted the year before ME1 came out, and it's only major competitor was Halo which has a good single player story (or so I've been told) but let be honest Halo is and will always be more famous for it's multiplayer than the quest of Master Chief, and by the time ME3 debuted sci-fi space opera were starting to make a come back with the Star Trek, Dr. Who, and Guardians of the Galaxy was coming out soon and new shows were coming out as well. I think that played a larger role in the success of the MET than a lot of people think and if ME1 was released two years later it's possible that it would've been another a cult classic like Jade Empire which is a fun and decent game but not successful enough for a sequel.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 11, 2021 23:43:17 GMT
Yeah those are some cheesy one-off lines. Imagine if their entire characters were built around that shtick and that you had them with you throughout a game artificially inflated to 50+ hours with fetch quests. How annoying would that be? "Who said anything about love? I'm just trying to get you in bed." Says paragon Shep while he gives Miranda creepy smiles, the MET had a lot of cringe dialogue that made me want to roll my eyes the same with ME: A though.
MET has more than it's fair share of cheesy dialogue, one liners and bad comedy even more than MEA I mean you can play Shepard basically like a complete and total idiot in ME1. I said this before the dialogue between male Shepard and Liara leading up to their sex scene sounds like a desperate creepy old man begging for sex. Meer's delivery of the "we gonna need bigger guns" is extremely cringe inducing because he plays even paragon Shepard so extremely macho that it's laughable bad when he tries to sensitive or even just polite.
You can play Ryder as someone who uses humor to make an unbearable situation more bearable that is if you the player decide to play Ryder that way, you can also play Ryder totally as serious character, while all Shepard is either a naive idiot or racist fascist character.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 12, 2021 0:29:39 GMT
I love Mars. Definitley one of my favorite missions from the entire series. But while that line does deserve a certain degree of ridicule I also do not think it applies in this case. Since every single video game, even those in a series, have slightly different gameplay twists and staples it does make a fair bit of sense that you should have to tutorialize...even for vets. New cover mechanics, levelling, and the heavy melee system...and weight system...was all things there were different then either of its predecessors. Why is t'soni telling Shepard to get to cover? Why not have Anderson do that on Earth? If not Anderson, why not A/K/Vega when facing Cerberus after arriving on Mars? Why not? 1. The purpose of Earth was to tutorialize and set up the story as much as anything. Introducing the central conflict, themes, the tone of the overall work and what to expect moving forward. 2. And I mean I know we don't like Liara but it has been fairly well established that she and Shepard are, if for no other reason, friends and comrades in arms. Her yelling out for Shepard to take cover makes as much sense as anyone else is given the circumstances and she is just as fine in the role as anyone else.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 12, 2021 0:37:34 GMT
Why is t'soni telling Shepard to get to cover? Why not have Anderson do that on Earth? If not Anderson, why not A/K/Vega when facing Cerberus after arriving on Mars? Why not? 1. The purpose of Earth was to tutorialize and set up the story as much as anything. Introducing the central conflict, themes, the tone of the overall work and what to expect moving forward. 2. And I mean I know we don't like Liara but it has been fairly well established that she and Shepard are, if for no other reason, friends and comrades in arms. Her yelling out for Shepard to take cover makes as much sense as anyone else is given the circumstances and she is just as fine in the role as anyone else. Ugh. Hated that Bio forced that friend zone crap. And you have to spend 1 game and half of ME3 to correct it.
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