shotgunjulia
N2
Frustrated Golfer
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jul 25, 2021 0:33:55 GMT
He's a man on the edge. He learned what it is to be really extreme from... Commander Shepard.
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Sundance31us
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Mostly Harmless
BSNer since 2010
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 25, 2021 0:42:15 GMT
He's a man on the edge. He learned what it is to be really extreme from... Commander Shepard. LOL True, but I can't see Joker taking orders from him. 
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 25, 2021 0:47:51 GMT
Games have not changed since 2010 and onward. Not unless your complaint is based around gay people now existing in video games because that is about the only real change that happened. Video games have never been innovated in any way that isn't technological. The same old stories and ideas being recycled since before TV's existed simply remade in a new medium.
In what way is the ending pretentious? It support's its cause fairly well though the series with background information. I know people like to complain that the whole organic vs synthetics wasn't front and center for the entire trilogy. Which is mostly ME2's fault for veering off path as ME1 actually addresses this as does ME3. And since the Reapers act like a giant soft reset button for the specific intention of preventing that O vs S conflict it makes no sense for them to act only after it has begun. Much in the same way if you wanted to use a time machine to prevent WW2 you wouldn't wait until after the nazi invasion of Poland. You would go back to when they were teenagers and have them suffer unfortunate accidents to prevent the formation of the nazi party in the first place.
It is no more pretentious then ME1 were Shepard is handed a magical program that allows them to take control of the Citadel from an ancient hyper advanced AI and block them from accessing it. Which right after you put a hole though husk Saren the same Reaper that was previously tanking the entire fleet attacking it like it was no more then some light wind suddenly and for no reason suffers a massive power surge and shuts down allowing it to be blown up.
Mass Effect 1 and 2 are riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies, not better or worse than ME3. ME1 can be "forgiven" because it's the first installment, ME2 because its a big side mission. What's ME3 excuse? The way it was advertised at the time, the crescendo it got from the first two installments, the expectations got too high for its own good. The story too big to be dealt with in any form whatsoever, with the time and hardware constraints. Anything I'm saying here was already said in the first year after ME3 launched. I daresay it got whole essays and dissertations on the matter, more than any game that existed before. Another thing you are on the right trail as well. I suspect the endings of Mass Effect 3 exacerbated pre-existing illness in a subset of people who were invested players. I know I was depressed when I played it, and the endings did make me feel worse. Not the game itself, mind you. The endings specifically, the jarring narrative shift, and lack of closure. An unhealthy obsession appeared, and affected negatively my everyday life. I don't know if my ego is big, but it was certainly "frail" at the time. All this means that the endings are in fact, good and I can't perceive then as it is because of my diseased mind? In my opinion, no, they are still hot garbage. I just couldn't get over them at the time. Nowadays, I'm in a far better place physically and mentally, and I can just say "meh" to ME3 as a whole and "bleh" to the endings. There are far better war stories, and the atrocious endings sour the entire experience since ME1 (Chtulu turned misguided AI in the last minute). Being the first game in the series has nothing to do with their own self contained story having plot holes and inconsistencies. ME2 being the middle child doesn't get any more excuses either. People making excuses why it is fine for the 1st and 2nd game to have massive issues but not the 3rd game causes me to instantly treat them the same way as those anti vax idiots. Because both involve so much cherry picking they should technically qualify as harvesting equipment. If ME2 didn't go off the deep end and spent an entire game spinning in circles then ME3 would have done much better. People often point to ME3 as the weak point but it is ME2 that caused the most problems from a narrative perspective. I'm not saying that changing ME2 would have fixed all the issues with ME3 but when a single DLC does more narrative heavy lifting then the entire main story in ME2 there is room for improvement.
People keep saying the Reapers are like Cthulhu but I don't see it. I also don't see how they are turned misguided AI at the last minute. Every single discussion about that almost always ends with the other person treating Rannoch like a fairy tale "and they lived happily ever after forever and ever and ever" Their entire argument revolves around leap frogging from in universe perspective and reasoning to applying outside the game universe children's story book endings to events. Even taken at face value the events of ME3 take place over a year or so and Rannoch takes place like half way though that time frame. So people are literally pointing to 6 months of events and saying that this state will last forever.
Compared that to the Reaper view that is looking at cultural development and what the ends result will be 5,000 years from now that 6 month time frame people use as absolute proof is not much better then a 4 year old declaring that dragon tails will be their most favorite cartoon forever. Their argument weakened even further as they fail to take Reaper interference into account while discounting the Catalyst's logic. FTL and Mass Relays have profound effects on the galaxy and on events in the galaxy. It is the FTL and Mass Relays that allow the Quarians to escape and survive. No Reaper means no Mass Relays existing which would drastically alter how the races are spread out across the galaxy shrinking territories significantly.
It also means the Quarian survival is called into question. It is entirly possible that the Quarians would develop the Geth before they develop their own FTL travel which would mean any sub light travel outside of their solar system is a death sentence for sure. If they did develop an FTL system then travel would still be very difficult to transport 17 million Quarians in quickly made escape ships that would take weeks or month(s) of travel to cross the void between stars.
Wiki says Alliance Ships can travel around 0.14 light years per 24 hours. Alpha Centauri is around 4.37 light years away. So traveling at that speed it would take around 31 days to travel that distance.
Depending on how their ships are stocked and the fact they will not have the galactic community to barter, buy and refit ships and other things to help keep the Flotilla running their survival in the dark void becomes some what questionable. And both outcomes drastically alter the whole Geth issue.
I can't help but point out the irony of that statement when some of your first words were..
This is a great example of you wanting "being right on the internet" more then a human connection. There are about a thousand ways you could have worded that better to not sound like Yzma telling the peasant that if they didn't want to go hungry they shouldn't have become peasants.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 0:54:42 GMT
Mass Effect 1 and 2 are riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies, not better or worse than ME3. ME1 can be "forgiven" because it's the first installment, ME2 because its a big side mission. What's ME3 excuse? The way it was advertised at the time, the crescendo it got from the first two installments, the expectations got too high for its own good. The story too big to be dealt with in any form whatsoever, with the time and hardware constraints. Anything I'm saying here was already said in the first year after ME3 launched. I daresay it got whole essays and dissertations on the matter, more than any game that existed before. Another thing you are on the right trail as well. I suspect the endings of Mass Effect 3 exacerbated pre-existing illness in a subset of people who were invested players. I know I was depressed when I played it, and the endings did make me feel worse. Not the game itself, mind you. The endings specifically, the jarring narrative shift, and lack of closure. An unhealthy obsession appeared, and affected negatively my everyday life. I don't know if my ego is big, but it was certainly "frail" at the time. All this means that the endings are in fact, good and I can't perceive then as it is because of my diseased mind? In my opinion, no, they are still hot garbage. I just couldn't get over them at the time. Nowadays, I'm in a far better place physically and mentally, and I can just say "meh" to ME3 as a whole and "bleh" to the endings. There are far better war stories, and the atrocious endings sour the entire experience since ME1 (Chtulu turned misguided AI in the last minute). Being the first game in the series has nothing to do with their own self contained story having plot holes and inconsistencies. ME2 being the middle child doesn't get any more excuses either. People making excuses why it is fine for the 1st and 2nd game to have massive issues but not the 3rd game causes me to instantly treat them the same way as those anti vax idiots. Because both involve so much cherry picking they should technically qualify as harvesting equipment. If ME2 didn't go off the deep end and spent an entire game spinning in circles then ME3 would have done much better. People often point to ME3 as the weak point but it is ME2 that caused the most problems from a narrative perspective. I'm not saying that changing ME2 would have fixed all the issues with ME3 but when a single DLC does more narrative heavy lifting then the entire main story in ME2 there is room for improvement.
People keep saying the Reapers are like Cthulhu but I don't see it. I also don't see how they are turned misguided AI at the last minute. Every single discussion about that almost always ends with the other person treating Rannoch like a fairy tale "and they lived happily ever after forever and ever and ever" Their entire argument revolves around leap frogging from in universe perspective and reasoning to applying outside the game universe children's story book endings to events. Even taken at face value the events of ME3 take place over a year or so and Rannoch takes place like half way though that time frame. So people are literally pointing to 6 months of events and saying that this state will last forever.
Compared that to the Reaper view that is looking at cultural development and what the ends result will be 5,000 years from now that 6 month time frame people use as absolute proof is not much better then a 4 year old declaring that dragon tails will be their most favorite cartoon forever. Their argument weakened even further as they fail to take Reaper interference into account while discounting the Catalyst's logic. FTL and Mass Relays have profound effects on the galaxy and on events in the galaxy. It is the FTL and Mass Relays that allow the Quarians to escape and survive. No Reaper means no Mass Relays existing which would drastically alter how the races are spread out across the galaxy shrinking territories significantly.
It also means the Quarian survival is called into question. It is entirly possible that the Quarians would develop the Geth before they develop their own FTL travel which would mean any sub light travel outside of their solar system is a death sentence for sure. If they did develop an FTL system then travel would still be very difficult to transport 17 million Quarians in quickly made escape ships that would take weeks or month(s) of travel to cross the void between stars.
Wiki says Alliance Ships can travel around 0.14 light years per 24 hours. Alpha Centauri is around 4.37 light years away. So traveling at that speed it would take around 31 days to travel that distance.
Depending on how their ships are stocked and the fact they will not have the galactic community to barter, buy and refit ships and other things to help keep the Flotilla running their survival in the dark void becomes some what questionable. And both outcomes drastically alter the whole Geth issue.
I can't help but point out the irony of that statement when some of your first words were..
This is a great example of you wanting "being right on the internet" more then a human connection. There are about a thousand ways you could have worded that better to not sound like Yzma telling the peasant that if they didn't want to go hungry they shouldn't have become peasants.
As I said, you value more being "right". Keep doing it. You are one of the most entertaining posters on the forum. But not for the reasons I suspect you think you are. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 25, 2021 1:30:11 GMT
Ah yes blogs. The ultimate source of undisputed facts and not just opinions of the person who writes them.
Apparently they don't know that the game director or head writer is the one with the singular vision. And while others can and will have their own input on how to craft the game it is up to that head writer or director to finalize those choices. Much in the same way a book author can have friends or family or editors chime in on ideas and concepts. David Eddings in the Rivan Codex goes into detail about how his wife and editor were major factors in his writing of his Belgarion series. He really goes into detail about how his wife helped him writing Polgara.
Also it is Ginny not Jenny.
Also can we talk about how her about page is written entirely as if someone else was writing about her.
Unless she actually paid someone to write that about her that whole thing comes across as a little self important writing in that style.
You are just going to dismiss or ignore any argument that doesn't fall in line with your opinion aren't you? Of course, I doubt you even know who Melinda Snodgrass IS. You and a diverse others do it all the time. So why can't I cash in that bad faith argument chip every now and then?
Also I did address her argument. The basis of her argument is flawed.
Saren is not a personalized antagonist. Saren doesn't represent something personal for Shepard just the generic bad guy that becomes second fiddle once you learn about Sovereign is the one really pulling the strings. Saren is also indoctrinated so how much of his better a living slave then a dead hearo act is his own logic and not the result of Sovereign twisting his brain. The entire duality of Shepard's stance of "we can fight the Reapers" and Saren's "we can't fight the Reapers" is completely under cut by the introduction of indoctrination.
She also states that Saren and "his" ship corrupted Benzia which is pretty far from the truth. Benzia specifically went looking for Saren to correct his path and was trapped by Sovereign. At best Saren plays the role of unintentional bait in this situation. Giving the bait all the credit is a little disingenuous.
She also states that her friend failed to make the connection between Harbinger being a Reaper and not a Collector because they didn't personalize the villain enough. Not making the connection has nothing to do with the villain being personalized or not and has everything to do with her friend missing information or the writers not making it clear enough for them to make the connection.
Harbinger's entire point in ME2 was to repeat the same 12 lines and make a single enemy unit a little harder to kill. So why anyone would think they would be the main bad guy of ME3 I will always question. Particularly when you consider the issues of having a Reaper be the main bad guy. There simply could not be any confrontations between Harbinger and Shepard because Harbinger would always win by default. It is a fucking Reaper and spending the entire game either out witting or simply running away form Harbinger would get old quickly.
She also claims ME3 failed to make TIM and Leng the personalized villains which directly contradicts her previous statement about Saren in ME1. TIM operates the same way Saren does by being directly opposed to Shepard's actions. Also while playing second fiddle to the Reapers as the main threat. While Shepard wants to stop the Reapers TIM wants to control them. Both are indoctrinated and both work against Shepard for their own goals they think are correct. And again you can not have a specific Reaper as the main bad guy because a 2km long, 40 million year old Reaper with a main cannon that can rip though a dreadnought in one shot can not clash. But TIM who is human and who is operating in the shadows of the war for his own goals can in a way that isn't as ridiculous as Harbinger floating in front of the Normandy having a whole conversation with Shepard before letting them fly off again and again.
Claiming Harbinger was created as a standing for all the Reapers is a stretch as well. Harbinger was created to be a surprise twist at the end. To show that the Collectors were not just working FOR the Reapers but were being controlled BY a Reaper. Harbinger has less development then Sovereign does so claiming it was created to be a representation of all Reapers is stretching it a lot.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 25, 2021 1:32:12 GMT
Being the first game in the series has nothing to do with their own self contained story having plot holes and inconsistencies. ME2 being the middle child doesn't get any more excuses either. People making excuses why it is fine for the 1st and 2nd game to have massive issues but not the 3rd game causes me to instantly treat them the same way as those anti vax idiots. Because both involve so much cherry picking they should technically qualify as harvesting equipment. If ME2 didn't go off the deep end and spent an entire game spinning in circles then ME3 would have done much better. People often point to ME3 as the weak point but it is ME2 that caused the most problems from a narrative perspective. I'm not saying that changing ME2 would have fixed all the issues with ME3 but when a single DLC does more narrative heavy lifting then the entire main story in ME2 there is room for improvement.
People keep saying the Reapers are like Cthulhu but I don't see it. I also don't see how they are turned misguided AI at the last minute. Every single discussion about that almost always ends with the other person treating Rannoch like a fairy tale "and they lived happily ever after forever and ever and ever" Their entire argument revolves around leap frogging from in universe perspective and reasoning to applying outside the game universe children's story book endings to events. Even taken at face value the events of ME3 take place over a year or so and Rannoch takes place like half way though that time frame. So people are literally pointing to 6 months of events and saying that this state will last forever.
Compared that to the Reaper view that is looking at cultural development and what the ends result will be 5,000 years from now that 6 month time frame people use as absolute proof is not much better then a 4 year old declaring that dragon tails will be their most favorite cartoon forever. Their argument weakened even further as they fail to take Reaper interference into account while discounting the Catalyst's logic. FTL and Mass Relays have profound effects on the galaxy and on events in the galaxy. It is the FTL and Mass Relays that allow the Quarians to escape and survive. No Reaper means no Mass Relays existing which would drastically alter how the races are spread out across the galaxy shrinking territories significantly.
It also means the Quarian survival is called into question. It is entirly possible that the Quarians would develop the Geth before they develop their own FTL travel which would mean any sub light travel outside of their solar system is a death sentence for sure. If they did develop an FTL system then travel would still be very difficult to transport 17 million Quarians in quickly made escape ships that would take weeks or month(s) of travel to cross the void between stars.
Wiki says Alliance Ships can travel around 0.14 light years per 24 hours. Alpha Centauri is around 4.37 light years away. So traveling at that speed it would take around 31 days to travel that distance.
Depending on how their ships are stocked and the fact they will not have the galactic community to barter, buy and refit ships and other things to help keep the Flotilla running their survival in the dark void becomes some what questionable. And both outcomes drastically alter the whole Geth issue.
I can't help but point out the irony of that statement when some of your first words were..
This is a great example of you wanting "being right on the internet" more then a human connection. There are about a thousand ways you could have worded that better to not sound like Yzma telling the peasant that if they didn't want to go hungry they shouldn't have become peasants.
As I said, you value more being "right". Keep doing it. You are one of the most entertaining posters on the forum. But not for the reasons I suspect you think you are. Then what do you define as the correct type of right and human connection out of curiosity?
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Post by themikefest on Jul 25, 2021 1:32:13 GMT
He's a man on the edge. He learned what it is to be really extreme from... Commander Shepard. LOL True, but I can't see Joker taking orders from him. After seeing Moreau have feelings for a robot, Verner will have Javik the Great throw Moreau out the airlock along with the platform. Once done, Cortez will resume the role of pilot for the SR2. 
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Post by themikefest on Jul 25, 2021 1:34:25 GMT
He's a man on the edge. He learned what it is to be really extreme from... Commander Shepard. He also put his life on the line to save Shepard in ME3. He would be right for the job. Do what it takes to complete the mission.
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shotgunjulia
N2
Frustrated Golfer
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by shotgunjulia on Jul 25, 2021 2:09:19 GMT
I'll do a Rottentomatoes Rating of ME2 & how it would be rated today:
Critics: 30%
Audience: 95%
That's about where it is. It doesn't do anything to advance the plot. It's just a fun romp in the Terminus Systems called "Working for The Illusive Man" or "Daddy Issues and How I Shot My Way Through Clinical Psychology"
No it didn't advance the plot at all; Not until the DLCs of LOTSB and Arrival, but it was fun. It was pure escapism with a great soundtrack by Jack Wall. You could be the good Shepard, or a bad ass anti-hero, or even a villain protagonist if you went renegade enough - standing with the full renegade scars and glowing red eyes - "You're a killer, Jack. It's what killers do. A bullet in the head solves everything." "I know that now."
And now I'll continue on my scorched Earth play through of ME3. We got everyone through ME2 to witness the carnage.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jul 25, 2021 2:36:36 GMT
He's a man on the edge. He learned what it is to be really extreme from... Commander Shepard. He also put his life on the line to save Shepard in ME3. He would be right for the job. Do what it takes to complete the mission.
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Guardian
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Post by Guardian on Jul 25, 2021 3:22:41 GMT
I'll do a Rottentomatoes Rating of ME2 & how it would be rated today: Critics: 30% Audience: 95% That's about where it is. It doesn't do anything to advance the plot. It's just a fun romp in the Terminus Systems called "Working for The Illusive Man" or "Daddy Issues and How I Shot My Way Through Clinical Psychology" No it didn't advance the plot at all; Not until the DLCs of LOTSB and Arrival, but it was fun. It was pure escapism with a great soundtrack by Jack Wall. You could be the good Shepard, or a bad ass anti-hero, or even a villain protagonist if you went renegade enough - standing with the full renegade scars and glowing red eyes - "You're a killer, Jack. It's what killers do. A bullet in the head solves everything." "I know that now." And now I'll continue on my scorched Earth play through of ME3. We got everyone through ME2 to witness the carnage.
I can't say this always holds true, but it seem like these days when it comes to Entertainment (movies/shows/games), it seems the AAA stuff that critics love usually gets hated by the audience, and vice versa.
Again, this doesn't always hold up, but I'd say realistically about 8 out of 10 times it does. Just an observation I've seen over the past several years.
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 25, 2021 3:58:40 GMT
After seeing Moreau have feelings for a robot, Verner will have Javik the Great throw Moreau out the airlock along with the platform. Once done, Cortez will resume the role of pilot for the SR2.  I've grown accustomed to having a sarcastic asshole for a pilot, though. If Joker is going out the airlock, maybe Javik can learn to fly the ship instead? They can get a Trident for Cortez.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 25, 2021 6:28:17 GMT
I still don't consider conversations with you a waste of time.  And a canonical sequel would just... totally undermine the whole thing. So good thing that's not in the cards, right? To clarify, I meant just that conversation in particular, not our conversations in general. As for a canon sequel not being in the cards, here's hoping. Their best option is still continuing in Andromeda.
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 25, 2021 6:34:15 GMT
As for a canon sequel not being in the cards, here's hoping. Their best option is still continuing in Andromeda. I actually agree with this. I didn't love Andromeda, but I still think the new characters and setting deserve room to grow, and dropped story lines deserve to be finished. And I don't think they can deal with or escape from the trilogy's endings in a way that will please very many people. |
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 25, 2021 9:26:20 GMT
The general public actively, either loathe Andromeda or hold it in apathy, it will be more difficult to endear people to it than to directly continue from the Trilogy's conclusion.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 25, 2021 11:09:18 GMT
The general public actively, either loathe Andromeda or hold it in apathy, it will be more difficult to endear people to it than to directly continue from the Trilogy's conclusion. Apathy will be easier to build off of then a surprising number of people who hold the stance "If they don't use my specific game world I'm not going to buy it" I'm not really sure how or why some people have that stance in the first place. As long as the game story is decent I really don't care how much of my canonical choices they use or not in any squeal.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 25, 2021 12:14:28 GMT
Books can get changed and go though multiple rewrites and editorial changes. David Eddings the Beligard series was originally only 3 books Garion, Ce'Nedra and Torak. But was changed into a 5 part series. The Rivian Codex also shows a lot of early rough draft ideas for the world the books take place in. Showing rewriting and altering of the story is a natural part of book writing just like movies, tv and video games.
Your choices matter in the run up to the end and what style ending you get. Being an ass hole gets you a low EMS score and reduces your ending choices. Or at least did until the EMS was reduced and the addition of DLC made it so getting a bad ending was something you had to actively work to do. To claim it had no effect is just straight up bullshit.
And again the artistic integrity bullshit as she uses it is just that bullshit. A video game and a movie are not the same. I don't think I've ever heard of test audience for video games really didn't exist when this blog post was written. That has changed recently but more so because developers have learned they can throw out a shitty half build game and as long as they call it "beta" they can fully monetize it and people will not only play it, but also spend money on it and rabidly defend any criticism of the game using the fact it is still in beta and not fully released as to why it is acceptance for all these problems to still exist.
She also rambles a bit about choices and ignore the fact the choices are limited within what the writers want. And by nature of being a video game those choices don't lead to very different outcomes because it is impossible to realistically write and code a game were the outcome of two choices is drastically and wildly different. Kill the Rachni Queen or not and all that changes is a few lines of dialogue for 2 games because making the Queen a major part of both games would be really hard to do if 50% of the players didn't keep her alive.
She literally ignores all the resources you get for the Crucible as well as the implied increased defense and protection of the Crucible from the stronger fleet. She admitted she was wrong about something which is nice. But it still shows she didn't bother to read a lot of those EMS score points or make the connection how more people helping build the Crucible and more people protecting it would equal a better build system more in tact and able to operate at higher efficient.
Oh that first bit is such a childish and stupid take my eyes rolled involuntarily reading it. Previously she complained about a lack of closure on the endings and now that with the EC they add some closure to the endings she is complaining that they don't do anything. A more contradictory logic and argument could not be had if you tried. BioWare even went out of their way to make all endings happy endings and she complains about that as well calling it condescending. As an expert in being condescending, that simply doesn't exist in the EC endings. They play it straight to 100% validate the player's choice of ending. The fact she calls it condescending speaks a lot about the kind of person she is. Tantrum about anything that she disagrees with by making up and twisting her own perception as if it is the truth. There is just no pleasing this person.
There Iakus I've now addressed all of your links. I debated doing multiple replies or a single long one and figured this would be slightly less obtrusive to other users. So what do you do from this point now? Unless you are secretly Melinda do you some how try to argue her points? That would be a little strange since you do not know her specific thoughts, reasons and interpretation of events in game which lead to her conclusions.
Or more disappointingly did you post these with the entire idea that because she has written before she is a person who is incapable of mistakes and who's word is unquestionable law of writing? Considering how subjective writing is trying to use a writer as if their word represents unquestionable biblical gospel of writing that is just kind of sad.
Because as much as I do enjoy Measure of a Man her handling of Riker during the trial was rather pathetic. We know Data was artificially created, he will tell you that himself. So Riker spending the whole time pointing out the obvious that he can bend strong things and remove limbs and be shut off has always come across as stupid as someone pointing to a pencil and saying that it is a pencil and it can write. The facts this was treated as not only a good argument but a damaging one when the question was never IF Data was a machine but if he had crossed that boundary between a machine and a living sentient entity. The fact Picard sits back and never considers this until the 3rd act when Guinan prompts Picard to consider what it would be like if Data would be ruled as property and they replicated him is just stupid for such a well educated and intelligence person.
Riker's entire line of argument is so weak it is the definition of a strawman argument. Which would be fine normally since Riker likes Data but that JAG officer said that if she thinks Riker isn't serious during the trial she would instantly rule against Data. So all that tension created by the fact Riker has to prosecute Data in the hopes of potentially saving him is under cut by his weak ass argument that never actually addresses the point. If Data has crossed that line between being simply an advanced computer and into the realm of a sentient living entity who should be given all the protection the Federation provides to living sentient entities.
So yea you can enjoy Melinda's work but she is far from some flawless authority on writing. She is human and makes mistakes and has her own opinions.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 25, 2021 12:32:09 GMT
It's not a surprising number to me honestly.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 25, 2021 12:39:42 GMT
She also rambles a bit about choices and ignore the fact the choices are limited within what the writers want. And by nature of being a video game those choices don't lead to very different outcomes because it is impossible to realistically write and code a game were the outcome of two choices is drastically and wildly different. Kill the Rachni Queen or not and all that changes is a few lines of dialogue for 2 games because making the Queen a major part of both games would be really hard to do if 50% of the players didn't keep her alive. Exactly what is the expectation, when someone tells you your choices matter? Because if something is "really hard" then you shouldn't make promises you can't feasibly execute. That's called manipulating, leading along, lying etc. You can do a bad job at something you promised, so bad, that it doesn't come close to what the expectation was. And don't make me post the collage with Bioware's promises on the one side and the actual impact of those promises on the other again. I've kept the receipts. |
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 466 Likes: 704
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 25, 2021 13:22:11 GMT
He's a man on the edge. He learned what it is to be really extreme from... Commander Shepard. Imagine you go up the Crucible floaty elevator thing and then hear: "It's me, Conrad Verner!" |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 25, 2021 14:49:24 GMT
She also rambles a bit about choices and ignore the fact the choices are limited within what the writers want. And by nature of being a video game those choices don't lead to very different outcomes because it is impossible to realistically write and code a game were the outcome of two choices is drastically and wildly different. Kill the Rachni Queen or not and all that changes is a few lines of dialogue for 2 games because making the Queen a major part of both games would be really hard to do if 50% of the players didn't keep her alive. Exactly what is the expectation, when someone tells you your choices matter? Because if something is "really hard" then you shouldn't make promises you can't feasibly execute. That's called manipulating, leading along, lying etc. You can do a bad job at something you promised, so bad, that it doesn't come close to what the expectation was. And don't make me post the collage with Bioware's promises on the one side and the actual impact of those promises on the other again. I've kept the receipts. That my choice will be acknowledged in the game world. Because this is a video game and it has to be pre preprogrammed in unlike say D&D were the DM is a human who can adjust the story based on events in ways a video game could never hope to accomplish. This is already shown and widely well received with games like Fallout were your choices are noted in game but have very little if 0 actual effect on the story. 90% of your choices have no real effect in game and only dictate which of 2 or 3 single sentence summaries you get during the slide show at the end.
In Mass Effect 3 your choices are acknowledged in the game world and previous choices have effects on choices presented in the current game. It might not encompass the entirety of all your choices but it does acknowledge the majority of the major ones and acknowledges their effects. The over arching stories in the series were addressed and it was player choice that decided it and acknowledged it in the game world.
There is also the fact after a certain age you should be well aware of how advertisement operates and allow you to temper your expectations after taking the exaggerations and hype into account. No one screams manipulation about Mc Donalds advertising their food to look perfect and then getting a quickly slap together burger created by a minimum wage 20 year old who has to make 50 burgers every half an hour to keep up with demand from customers.
Your individual expectation is irrelevant because no one can account for that. Trying to use your own personal expectations and applying it as if the creator should have taken that into account is ludicrous. If you have played games like Fallout you know how limited choices can be in game. When you take into account that they are trying to encompass choices from 2 previous games something no other game series has sever really done before. With an already existing proof of how limited that would be with ME2. If you expected anything more then what we got in ME3 then you were just deliberately being dense on purpose so you can complain later.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 25, 2021 15:21:42 GMT
That my choice will be acknowledged Acknowledged, doesn't mean matter. So, by your own admission, the promise is already broken. |
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Sundance31us
N5
Mostly Harmless
BSNer since 2010
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 25, 2021 18:05:08 GMT
LOL True, but I can't see Joker taking orders from him. After seeing Moreau have feelings for a robot, Verner will have Javik the Great throw Moreau out the airlock along with the platform. Once done, Cortez will resume the role of pilot for the SR2. I'm not sure Mr. I'm-Not-Married-&-Have-A-Shrine-To-Commander-Shepard can really take the high ground on that one.  On the other hand I can see Javik doing the following to the remaining Normandy crew; - Eating some (after a generous seasoning of fear).
- Throwing some out the airlock.
- Keeping a few around for trolling purposes (I'm looking at you Liara).
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Post by dragontartare on Jul 25, 2021 19:18:03 GMT
After seeing Moreau have feelings for a robot, Verner will have Javik the Great throw Moreau out the airlock along with the platform. Once done, Cortez will resume the role of pilot for the SR2. On the other hand I can see Javik doing the following to the remaining Normandy crew; - Eating some (after a generous seasoning of fear).
- Throwing some out the airlock.
- Keeping a few around for trolling purposes (I'm looking at you Liara).
Javik is a reasonable guy. He's going to eat people who interfered with efforts to defeat the reapers, not the Normandy crew. I bet the dalatrass is tender and juicy. |
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 25, 2021 19:26:52 GMT
I have an idea. There's a scene less than ten minutes into the game where the reaper lands outside where the defence committee and Shepard are. It fires a shot and the windows blow our and Shepard gets hit on the head. Shepard is knocked unconscious, but instead of recovering, Shepard remains unconscious and the entire ME3 game is a bad dream. This gives Bioware a chance to completely rewrite ME3 and correct the myriad of mistakes and bad writing in the game, and give the game the ending it deserves. that is a good idea but whom shall replace the Mighty Shepard if that occured. Sly Marbo... 😆 |
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