SassaMFG
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Post by SassaMFG on Jul 13, 2021 14:52:48 GMT
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 13, 2021 21:25:37 GMT
That was terrible. Legitimately terrible. I don't know who thought this was funny (Matt Cundy, apaprently), but it's actually making the endings we did get, look even worse. Because it makes it painfully clear that the endings we did get, had nothing to do with Mass Effect, the franchise we were playing game in. It feels like it was taken out of something entirely different, because the writers were creatively bankrupt and forced into the spot, like trying to fit the wrong puzzle piece by hammering it in, when it, so obviously, has no place being there. I thought it would have been about mods, instead. Which is still pathetic, because they're all entirely non canon and the franchise still can't move past them, but at least it is some community creative, original effort involved in trying to make something out of the unsalvageable.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 14, 2021 18:16:16 GMT
Modders better get to work on these. Honestly, I wish a lot of the previous mods existed in MELE but he we are. I won't buy it until rondeeno decides to remake his same-gender mod for MELE. Hopefully by then JAM will also exist. I avoid the BioWare endings like the plague. I prefer completely destroying the Reapers while every other race is just fine. (Yes, Hanako, even the geth.)
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Sundance31us
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 18, 2021 5:24:06 GMT
>every thread turns to ending crap >make specific thread for ending crap >turns to geth-quarian crap really can't win It could be worse...
There was a time on the official BSN when all the ME threads turned into Indoctrination Theory™ threads. It got so bad the mods had to limit detailed discussion of it (IT) to one thread only...you could mention IT in other threads, but not get into specifics.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jul 18, 2021 18:55:13 GMT
>every thread turns to ending crap >make specific thread for ending crap >turns to geth-quarian crap really can't win It could be worse...
There was a time on the official BSN when all the ME threads turned into Indoctrination Theory™ threads. It got so bad the mods had to limit detailed discussion of it (IT) to one thread only...you could mention IT in other threads, but not get into specifics. It's all just caused by GothpunkBoy99 though, and no one else. I blocked him here and on Reddit, because you cannot get a word in, he's just bulldozering his own explanation over and over and quoting you into oblivion to reiterate his own idea. I'm pretty sure the widest consensus on the endings is that Destroy is the best one, and right after that the consensus is that the endings are all complete garbage because it's the concept of them that doesn't fit with the plot leading up to the scene. It's the wrong jigsaw puzzle of some amazing 3000 piece set that is misapplied on a nice and easy 100-piece puzzle that is Mass Effect. No offense to the ending or its themes or Casey Hudson's fucking 500 IQ idea, but you can't just think up a concept out of thin air and say "let's put high-concept philosophy into the scene where the Batman punches Superman" oh... wait, bad comparison, I'll roll back a bit.
But you all know what I mean. Just some fools like this Gothpunk boy is running forward with his eyes closed when he's trying to address this, so I'd suggest blocking him if it's already irritating you. He seems to monitor Reddit and BSN ending topics almost as often as I do it, and only appears to combat the view that the ending is bad with his whataboutist Geth view.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 19, 2021 3:11:13 GMT
With everything old being new again thanks to the LE, I got to the enging again last night and well...
I actually noticed something that does not come up often. The ending doesen't really feel like an ending when you get down to brass tacks. Sure in some ways it does because of the extremism of what is going on in the ending and how divergent it is easily bringing all forward momentum of ME to a stand still....but listening to the Catalyst it feels like this is just a set up for another gotcha moment which never got paid off. The Catalyst is an unreliable narrator as hell, an ideologically driven one. He is caught in an open lie..which Shepard may not know but the audience does...when he says that Destroy will kill you outright...and yet Shepard can survive...and the much balliehoed commentary on the whole geth thing which does not need to be restated. Though on this subject there wasn't a single Geth starship in view when confronting him so...
The other thing which I have realized is that...why couldn't Shepard have survived in more then one ending? Obviously Synthesis and Refusal are out, since the former requires their entire being right down to their celluar structure being obliterated so it can be spead out into the cosmos...*blargh*...all Control would seem to require is a brain and mind print and not the physical essense. Of course the energy involved might have caused the disintegration but you'd think that would be an easy enough problem to write around. And asisde from that on the face of it Control is actually more survivable then how it looked like Destroy went.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 3:42:27 GMT
With everything old being new again thanks to the LE, I got to the enging again last night and well... I actually noticed something that does not come up often. The ending doesen't really feel like an ending when you get down to brass tacks. Sure in some ways it does because of the extremism of what is going on in the ending and how divergent it is easily bringing all forward momentum of ME to a stand still....but listening to the Catalyst it feels like this is just a set up for another gotcha moment which never got paid off. The Catalyst is an unreliable narrator as hell, an ideologically driven one. He is caught in an open lie..which Shepard may not know but the audience does...when he says that Destroy will kill you outright...and yet Shepard can survive...and the much balliehoed commentary on the whole geth thing which does not need to be restated. Though on this subject there wasn't a single Geth starship in view when confronting him so... The other thing which I have realized is that...why couldn't Shepard have survived in more then one ending? Obviously Synthesis and Refusal are out, since the former requires their entire being right down to their celluar structure being obliterated so it can be spead out into the cosmos...*blargh*...all Control would seem to require is a brain and mind print and not the physical essense. Of course the energy involved might have caused the disintegration but you'd think that would be an easy enough problem to write around. And asisde from that on the face of it Control is actually more survivable then how it looked like Destroy went. I would think Shepard would personally survive Refusal, for a period of time... since the harvest of the entire species can take centuries.
I also think Synthesis could be written on in such a way that Shepard survives in much the same way control could. We don't really know what happens in the process of Shepard's essence being spread out across the cosmos. Is his/her essence duplicated in the process... because otherwise it the molecules of a single body would be spread pretty thin after being applied over the entire galaxy. Synthesis makes no sense as people here interpret it as the organic species being infused and only organic DNA being changed to make them more "synthetic"... but if Shepard is organic... where do all those "synthetic" molecules come from in the first place? The whole idea that it takes the dissolving of an organic being to create a galaxy full of "forced" synthetic ones is somewhat nonsensical at best... and would only be adding a little more nonsense to that nonsense have Shepard survive the process as well.
I still think Bioware's "best" move is to move the timeline hundreds of years forward and make up a "cleansing" event that brings the galaxy to a singular state regardless of the ending chosen. If people want Shepard back, put him/her on an ark to Andromeda and just say we played ME2 and ME3 with a clone (and people lied to that clone to make him/her believe he/she was the real Shepard). It's no more ridiculous than anything else that's been suggested. If people want the entire ME2 squad and crew... then just say they were all cloned beyond the Omega 4 relay and it was those clones that returned to Earth... the rest flew off into the galaxy to only be seen again in ME5.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 19, 2021 4:13:55 GMT
The other thing which I have realized is that...why couldn't Shepard have survived in more then one ending? Obviously Synthesis and Refusal are out, since the former requires their entire being right down to their celluar structure being obliterated so it can be spead out into the cosmos...*blargh*...all Control would seem to require is a brain and mind print and not the physical essense. Of course the energy involved might have caused the disintegration but you'd think that would be an easy enough problem to write around. And asisde from that on the face of it Control is actually more survivable then how it looked like Destroy went. Honestly, none of them required Shepard's death. Why does Shepard's entire body have to be turned to goo? A blood sample would have the same DNA. I say the Catalyst wanted some revenge. Control? As you say, a brain/mind print or something along those lines. If it has the same morality then it will behave the same. Refusal? Hunker down in a Prothean ice box. Destroy is actually the tougher one, but only if you posit that the Citadel actually was wrecked. Since "everyone" on the Citadel survived (per, IIRC, BioWare) then Shepard should have as well. So, realistically, there didn't need to be any death consequences. Why would EMS make any difference in what the red beam did? I makes no sense.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 19, 2021 7:29:07 GMT
With everything old being new again thanks to the LE, I got to the enging again last night and well... I actually noticed something that does not come up often. The ending doesen't really feel like an ending when you get down to brass tacks. Sure in some ways it does because of the extremism of what is going on in the ending and how divergent it is easily bringing all forward momentum of ME to a stand still....but listening to the Catalyst it feels like this is just a set up for another gotcha moment which never got paid off. The Catalyst is an unreliable narrator as hell, an ideologically driven one. He is caught in an open lie..which Shepard may not know but the audience does...when he says that Destroy will kill you outright...and yet Shepard can survive...and the much balliehoed commentary on the whole geth thing which does not need to be restated. Though on this subject there wasn't a single Geth starship in view when confronting him so... The other thing which I have realized is that...why couldn't Shepard have survived in more then one ending? Obviously Synthesis and Refusal are out, since the former requires their entire being right down to their celluar structure being obliterated so it can be spead out into the cosmos...*blargh*...all Control would seem to require is a brain and mind print and not the physical essense. Of course the energy involved might have caused the disintegration but you'd think that would be an easy enough problem to write around. And asisde from that on the face of it Control is actually more survivable then how it looked like Destroy went. I would think Shepard would personally survive Refusal, for a period of time... since the harvest of the entire species can take centuries.
I also think Synthesis could be written on in such a way that Shepard survives in much the same way control could. We don't really know what happens in the process of Shepard's essence being spread out across the cosmos. Is his/her essence duplicated in the process... because otherwise it the molecules of a single body would be spread pretty thin after being applied over the entire galaxy. Synthesis makes no sense as people here interpret it as the organic species being infused and only organic DNA being changed to make them more "synthetic"... but if Shepard is organic... where do all those "synthetic" molecules come from in the first place? The whole idea that it takes the dissolving of an organic being to create a galaxy full of "forced" synthetic ones is somewhat nonsensical at best... and would only be adding a little more nonsense to that nonsense have Shepard survive the process as well.
I still think Bioware's "best" move is to move the timeline hundreds of years forward and make up a "cleansing" event that brings the galaxy to a singular state regardless of the ending chosen. If people want Shepard back, put him/her on an ark to Andromeda and just say we played ME2 and ME3 with a clone (and people lied to that clone to make him/her believe he/she was the real Shepard). It's no more ridiculous than anything else that's been suggested. If people want the entire ME2 squad and crew... then just say they were all cloned beyond the Omega 4 relay and it was those clones that returned to Earth... the rest flew off into the galaxy to only be seen again in ME5.
Meh Refusal would still be pretty far of a stretch for me considering Shepard was just sitting there in Reaper Central right next to the Catalyst. I mean probably anyone involved in the battle for Earth would be Reaper food. From my understanding of it its because Shepard got synthetic tech implanted in them via Project Lazaruz, that they were already in the state of what Synthesis would be...well or at least the template of it...and that is what would be shot out throughout the Relays. Though you are right I hadn't actually considered that there is the other hole in not having enough working materials in order to achieve the desired outcome galactic wide. The other thing which I have realized is that...why couldn't Shepard have survived in more then one ending? Obviously Synthesis and Refusal are out, since the former requires their entire being right down to their celluar structure being obliterated so it can be spead out into the cosmos...*blargh*...all Control would seem to require is a brain and mind print and not the physical essense. Of course the energy involved might have caused the disintegration but you'd think that would be an easy enough problem to write around. And asisde from that on the face of it Control is actually more survivable then how it looked like Destroy went. Honestly, none of them required Shepard's death. Why does Shepard's entire body have to be turned to goo? A blood sample would have the same DNA. I say the Catalyst wanted some revenge. Control? As you say, a brain/mind print or something along those lines. If it has the same morality then it will behave the same. Refusal? Hunker down in a Prothean ice box. Destroy is actually the tougher one, but only if you posit that the Citadel actually was wrecked. Since "everyone" on the Citadel survived (per, IIRC, BioWare) then Shepard should have as well. So, realistically, there didn't need to be any death consequences. Why would EMS make any difference in what the red beam did? I makes no sense. Revenge would be an interesting motivation. I do honestly keep on forgetting that they codified that particular fact of lore. It really sounds like a bit of an asspull from Bio considering that if they did take the Citadel well then...why keep anyone alive? Nevertheless as you said it just does add a bit more context into the 'Shepard died... why thing.' I mean other then the exploding panel for Destroy which was right in front of them which I just realized also is a bit weird.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2021 7:33:18 GMT
Honestly, none of them required Shepard's death. Why does Shepard's entire body have to be turned to goo? A blood sample would have the same DNA. I say the Catalyst wanted some revenge. Control? As you say, a brain/mind print or something along those lines. If it has the same morality then it will behave the same. Refusal? Hunker down in a Prothean ice box. Destroy is actually the tougher one, but only if you posit that the Citadel actually was wrecked. Since "everyone" on the Citadel survived (per, IIRC, BioWare) then Shepard should have as well. So, realistically, there didn't need to be any death consequences. Why would EMS make any difference in what the red beam did? I makes no sense. Revenge would be an interesting motivation. I do honestly keep on forgetting that they codified that particular fact of lore. It really sounds like a bit of an asspull from Bio considering that if they did take the Citadel well then...why keep anyone alive? Nevertheless as you said it just does add a bit more context into the 'Shepard died... why thing.' I mean other then the exploding panel for Destroy which was right in front of them which I just realized also is a bit weird. Well the Reapers we’re trying to kill and harvest everyone in the Citadel, but the defenses we helped build all game weigh the CDF was slowing that down. I imagine that would’ve been shown more if they kept the idea of fighting a bit on the Citadel after the beam run.
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FiendishlyInventive
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 19, 2021 12:22:39 GMT
The good thing being, that if they choose, they can narrow down their world building variables for Mass Effect 4.
If they so choose to they can just treat the Mass Effect 3 ending like the Mass Effect 2 ending, any ending that Shepard does not physically survive they do not have to account for making it manageable.
That means only having to account for the variances in one possible world state.
I honestly think if they do not do this it's dead in the water and will then have made the mistake Dragon Age made, that being abandoning the stories and setting and protagonist both the fandom and media at large care for, in my opinion they have to reach the heights of either Dragon Age Origins or the original Mass Effect again or its first sequel.
Perhaps they can do that with a new protagonist and a world that accounts for all possible outcomes but they have not the last five times they attempted this strategy.
I really don't think sixth time's the charm.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 15:05:52 GMT
I would think Shepard would personally survive Refusal, for a period of time... since the harvest of the entire species can take centuries.
I also think Synthesis could be written on in such a way that Shepard survives in much the same way control could. We don't really know what happens in the process of Shepard's essence being spread out across the cosmos. Is his/her essence duplicated in the process... because otherwise it the molecules of a single body would be spread pretty thin after being applied over the entire galaxy. Synthesis makes no sense as people here interpret it as the organic species being infused and only organic DNA being changed to make them more "synthetic"... but if Shepard is organic... where do all those "synthetic" molecules come from in the first place? The whole idea that it takes the dissolving of an organic being to create a galaxy full of "forced" synthetic ones is somewhat nonsensical at best... and would only be adding a little more nonsense to that nonsense have Shepard survive the process as well.
I still think Bioware's "best" move is to move the timeline hundreds of years forward and make up a "cleansing" event that brings the galaxy to a singular state regardless of the ending chosen. If people want Shepard back, put him/her on an ark to Andromeda and just say we played ME2 and ME3 with a clone (and people lied to that clone to make him/her believe he/she was the real Shepard). It's no more ridiculous than anything else that's been suggested. If people want the entire ME2 squad and crew... then just say they were all cloned beyond the Omega 4 relay and it was those clones that returned to Earth... the rest flew off into the galaxy to only be seen again in ME5.
Meh Refusal would still be pretty far of a stretch for me considering Shepard was just sitting there in Reaper Central right next to the Catalyst. I mean probably anyone involved in the battle for Earth would be Reaper food. From my understanding of it its because Shepard got synthetic tech implanted in them via Project Lazaruz, that they were already in the state of what Synthesis would be...well or at least the template of it...and that is what would be shot out throughout the Relays. Though you are right I hadn't actually considered that there is the other hole in not having enough working materials in order to achieve the desired outcome galactic wide. Honestly, none of them required Shepard's death. Why does Shepard's entire body have to be turned to goo? A blood sample would have the same DNA. I say the Catalyst wanted some revenge. Control? As you say, a brain/mind print or something along those lines. If it has the same morality then it will behave the same. Refusal? Hunker down in a Prothean ice box. Destroy is actually the tougher one, but only if you posit that the Citadel actually was wrecked. Since "everyone" on the Citadel survived (per, IIRC, BioWare) then Shepard should have as well. So, realistically, there didn't need to be any death consequences. Why would EMS make any difference in what the red beam did? I makes no sense. Revenge would be an interesting motivation. I do honestly keep on forgetting that they codified that particular fact of lore. It really sounds like a bit of an asspull from Bio considering that if they did take the Citadel well then...why keep anyone alive? Nevertheless as you said it just does add a bit more context into the 'Shepard died... why thing.' I mean other then the exploding panel for Destroy which was right in front of them which I just realized also is a bit weird. Not unless tech implants alter DNA. Why not just shoot out a bunch of Cerberus cybernetic parts then rather than Shepard's organic parts along with his/her tech "programming."? Synthesis only makes sense at all if it is "symbolic"... and transfer of understanding, perspective, and experience rather than a physical change to one's DNA. Within the MEU, this sort of think is possible "through touch" (per Javik) and through the Asari mind melds... and, as such, should not be objectionable to anyone... to learn to to see someone else's POV... particularly when that POV includes the experiences of every civilization from the dawn of time. However, Bioware inserted the idea that physical DNA is changed in the process... and that's what, IMO, opened up the can of worms on which the arguments against synthesis continue to be based.
I'll continue to stand for all of the endings continuing to be included in the ME canon. If they "decanonize" any of them by declaring an "official" one going forward... I simply won't buy the game nor any other ME "stuff" based on that... personal choice.
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 19, 2021 15:25:13 GMT
You will if it is good.
At the end of the day that's what ultimately matters.
And judging by Biowares track record if they don't it's already dead on arrival.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 15:48:02 GMT
You will if it is good. At the end of the day that's what ultimately matters. And judging by Biowares track record if they don't it's already dead on arrival. Given their track record, I won't have to worry about whether or not it's good. The vast majority around here predict that it won't be good anyways.
I assure you, I will stand by what I've said... Declaring destroy as the sole canon equates to declaring it the "right" solution to war. Total annihilation of one's enemies is not a solution to anything. It's scorched earth at it's absolute worst. I don't care what the "majority" around here think about it. I know my own mind and my own morality. It's worked for me for many more decades than most of you. The road to peace is through diplomacy and understanding. It's not without risks, but at least it preserves the rewards.
... and you must realize that by saying things like "if they don't, it's already dead on arrival" you're actually saying you/people won't buy it if they don't - which is saying effectively the same thing I'm am... just in reaction to the opposite choice by Bioware. Obvious hypocrisy is obvious.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 19, 2021 16:26:34 GMT
You will if it is good. At the end of the day that's what ultimately matters. And judging by Biowares track record if they don't it's already dead on arrival. Given their track record, I won't have to worry about whether or not it's good. The vast majority around here predict that it won't be good anyways.
I assure you, I will stand by what I've said... Declaring destroy as the sole canon equates to declaring it the "right" solution to war. Total annihilation of one's enemies is not a solution to anything. It's scorched earth at it's absolute worst. I don't care what the "majority" around here think about it. I know my own mind and my own morality. It's worked for me for many more decades than most of you. The road to peace is through diplomacy and understanding. It's not without risks, but at least it preserves the rewards.
... and you must realize that by saying things like "if they don't, it's already dead on arrival" you're actually saying you/people won't buy it if they don't - which is saying effectively the same thing I'm am... just in reaction to the opposite choice by Bioware. Obvious hypocrisy is obvious.
Not that I particularly disagree with this, but I find capitulating to genocidal space Cthulhu and forcibly rewriting everyone's DNA without their knowledge or consent to be equally, if not even more heinous. Lesson here is: "Good" endings shouldn't leave huge swathes of player feeling like sh*t. And painting smiley faces on them as an "extended cut" doesn't add "clarity and closure"
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Jul 19, 2021 16:54:13 GMT
I have made known my own thoughts on the morality of the ending choices.
And also I never declared I will not buy it if it does not go down that route, I simply believe it must to ultimately be successful but, refrain from putting words in my mouth in the future.
If against all what the past attempts at doing it in that Biowares history will tell you it's not likely to succeed, that it is in fact good, succeeds financially and critically I will happily pick it up.
I just believe that's not likely.
And continuing Shepard's story via the opportunity only one ending presents' the correct path for them as a creative entity.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 22:43:36 GMT
. Total annihilation of one's enemies is not a solution to anything. It's scorched earth at it's absolute worst. In most cases, I agree. You are talking about an enemy with a sole purpose of destroying us, and you are destroying the Reapers in all 3 endings. If they are controlled by Shepard, they are no longer what they were, they are Shepard's Ultron solution. Green Reaper has a beating heart and feelings of joy - not what it was. The shallow depth of consequence most of you reach to justify your headcanon is really disappointing. You clearly do. It's ok. Having feelings is normal, you aren't Vulcan.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 23:13:45 GMT
. Total annihilation of one's enemies is not a solution to anything. It's scorched earth at it's absolute worst. In most cases, I agree. You are talking about an enemy with a sole purpose of destroying us, and you are destroying the Reapers in all 3 endings. If they are controlled by Shepard, they are no longer what they were, they are Shepard's Ultron solution. Green Reaper has a beating heart and feelings of joy - not what it was. The shallow depth of consequence most of you reach to justify your headcanon is really disappointing. You clearly do. It's ok. Having feelings is normal, you aren't Vulcan. I clearly don't... I don't follow the "schoolyard majority crowd" and never have. I do what I believe is right... and I know I'll have no interest in supporting a company financially that declares total annihilation as the "right" solution to war. I'd rather miss out on a one "good" game and play others than agree with that... regardless of whether it's a "consumer majority" that's dictating it to the company... while denying that they are actually making a similar ultimatum to the company as I am. If you think I should buy it because it's a good game... then, the same holds true for you as well... the majority should buy it as a good game even if it does not declare one ending "canon" and jumps the timeline forward to avoid that scenario... or keeps it in an alternative galaxy. But, the obvious hypocrisy of the 'majority" rules crowd here is obvious.
I also find it laughable that a bunch of strangers on the internet presume to know what I"ll do in the future over my knowing my own mind... and I find it laughable that they care about what I've clearly stated is a personal decision to argue with me about it online.
Furthermore, we are not talking about an enemy with a sole purpose of destroying us... we are talking about a game enemy written with a clear twist at the end that says they are effectively slaves to an existing AI dictator... who also states that their sole purpose is not to destroy us... yada, yada, yada. We are also talking about maintaining a "range of choices" within a RPG game... rather than forcing everyone who plays on in the franchise to have made a single choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 23:24:44 GMT
Lots of speculation from everyone. Walters, MAC, circa 2011.
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Sundance31us
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Post by Sundance31us on Jul 19, 2021 23:30:29 GMT
Lots of speculation from everyone. Walters, MAC, circa 2011. Just in case there are members who haven't seen this... Edit: I've updated to a correct image of the notes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 23:42:21 GMT
I find this sketch interesting. The speculation he intended was not the speculation he got, definitively.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 13:04:37 GMT
Lesson here is: "Good" endings shouldn't leave huge swathes of player feeling like sh*t. And painting smiley faces on them as an "extended cut" doesn't add "clarity and closure" I agree with the above. Bioware could have written better endings... given the player an "ideal" solution... but they probably did not feel themselves that there is an "ideal" solution to war or an "ideal" way to establish a lasting peace after a war ends. History shows we do exactly what the Normandy's War Room guards say... we "follow war with more war."
Still, expunging all but one ending doesn't solve that either. "Extermination" as a military strategy is against international law. It is a fact written into the game that the Reapers themselves are controlled by the Catalyst. Leviathan tells us that (so it doesn't matter how much the player "trusts" the Catalyst. We also know they are diverse... each a nation representing a civilization from a billion years of galactic history... so, unless the player believes that all civilizations throughout history held exactly the same POV, then each Reaper, if sentient (i.e. self-aware and capable of expressing opinions) would like hold different views on what they are being "controlled" to do. That is, some are likely doing it against their own will. They are slaves to an AI dictator. To destroy them all is to engage in military "extermination" (aka: genocide... when the victims are human).
Making Shepard live through a Destroy ending... doesn't change it either. It's just as bad an ending regardless of whether Shepard lives or dies during it.
Control at least as the potential to replace that "bad" dictator with a more moral one (depending on the player's choices).
As I said, synthesis makes no sense, even within the MEU, unless it is only "symbolic."
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Post by Iakus on Jul 20, 2021 13:13:49 GMT
Lesson here is: "Good" endings shouldn't leave huge swathes of player feeling like sh*t. And painting smiley faces on them as an "extended cut" doesn't add "clarity and closure" I agree with the above. Bioware could have written better endings... given the player an "ideal" solution... but they probably did not feel themselves that there is an "ideal" solution to war or an "ideal" way to establish a lasting peace after a war ends. History shows we do exactly what the Normandy's War Room guards say... we "follow war with more war."
Still, expunging all but one ending doesn't solve that either. "Extermination" as a military strategy is against international law. It is a fact written into the game that the Reapers themselves are controlled by the Catalyst. Leviathan tells us that (so it doesn't matter how much the player "trusts" the Catalyst. We also know they are diverse... each a nation representing a civilization from a billion years of galactic history... so, unless the player believes that all civilizations throughout history held exactly the same POV, then each Reaper, if sentient (i.e. self-aware and capable of expressing opinions) would like hold different views on what they are being "controlled" to do. That is, some are likely doing it against their own will. They are slaves to an AI dictator. To destroy them all is to engage in military "extermination" (aka: genocide... when the victims are human).
Why do we need an ending with lasting peace? Isn't it enough to just not have the entire galaxy harvested by Space Cthulhu? I'm not even talking about an "ideal solution" I'm talking about a solution that doesn't amount to a war crime on a galactic scale. Something that doesn't amount to "Saren was right all along" Something that doesn't leave a not inconsiderable number of players more than half-convinced that SHepard was being indoctrinated by the Reapers. ANd keep in mind, I hate Destroy too. I just think it says something about the endings where galactic genocide is considered by the audience to be the "least bad" option.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 13:22:55 GMT
I agree with the above. Bioware could have written better endings... given the player an "ideal" solution... but they probably did not feel themselves that there is an "ideal" solution to war or an "ideal" way to establish a lasting peace after a war ends. History shows we do exactly what the Normandy's War Room guards say... we "follow war with more war."
Still, expunging all but one ending doesn't solve that either. "Extermination" as a military strategy is against international law. It is a fact written into the game that the Reapers themselves are controlled by the Catalyst. Leviathan tells us that (so it doesn't matter how much the player "trusts" the Catalyst. We also know they are diverse... each a nation representing a civilization from a billion years of galactic history... so, unless the player believes that all civilizations throughout history held exactly the same POV, then each Reaper, if sentient (i.e. self-aware and capable of expressing opinions) would like hold different views on what they are being "controlled" to do. That is, some are likely doing it against their own will. They are slaves to an AI dictator. To destroy them all is to engage in military "extermination" (aka: genocide... when the victims are human).
Why do we need an ending with lasting peace? Isn't it enough to just not have the entire galaxy harvested by Space Cthulhu? I'm not even talking about an "ideal solution" I'm talking about a solution that doesn't amount to a war crime on a galactic scale. Something that doesn't amount to "Saren was right all along" Something that doesn't leave a not inconsiderable number of players more than half-convinced that SHepard was being indoctrinated by the Reapers. ANd keep in mind, I hate Destroy too. I just think it says something about the endings where galactic genocide is considered by the audience to be the "least bad" option. Hey, I didn't write them into that corner.. they did it to themselves... starting in ME1 with their "pet" unknowable enemy and how they portrayed that enemy in different ways throughout the Trilogy. Your solution is to just not buy the next game regardless of what they do. My line in the sand is a little more lenient... I'll accept a start where they continue to allow that the player could have chosen any of the options already presented. If they toss them out... they'd have to toss them all out and create an entirely new "ideal" ending to ME3 for me to be satisfied enough to buy that game. If the choose the most heinous of their current endings (that being destroy in my eyes), I'm definitely not buying anything more from them, period.
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