legbamel
N3
Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: legbamel
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Post by legbamel on Aug 26, 2021 17:34:43 GMT
Solas is the Dread Wolf, a trickster renowned for his ability to get people to do things with unintended consequences. I could very easily see him manipulating the Dalish (and Merrill in particular) without their knowing it. That would put her in a position to uncover the truth and do something extremely unwise. That goes double if she's got her half-broken Eluvian with her.
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cuthbertbeckett
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 26, 2021 17:50:00 GMT
That brings me to the question: if they were to kill off a returning character, which character do you think they'd kill off? Answering with Solas is cheating. It depends first what deaths do you mean? Optional (like Trespasser´s Iron Bull), deaths that every player gets or both? Well if Sandal returns in some way i think the time has come that they kill off Bodahn.
Varric if plays a major role has a high chance to die but i hope that this isn´t the case.
Sten as new Arishok well has also a high chance but lets hope that this is just optional.
I don´t think that Bioware will kill off Dorian. Sorry but it seems impossible to believe that Bioware would kill off a gay romance character. Maybe optional like Steve but in most world states Dorian should survive.
Of course if you want to punish Calpernia there should be an option to kill her.
And secondary characters i would say Archon Radonis, The Black Divine and The first Warden.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 26, 2021 18:01:24 GMT
Can she? I didn't know that. I thought she always survives no matter what. Yes but its a bit hard to get this in a normal playthrough. "Merrill initially refuses to help a pro-Templar Hawke if she was not spoken to after an unpleasant encounter with her clan, and if Anders considers Hawke a full rival. He must also be talked with after fulfilling all his requests so that he can be potentially persuaded to turn against the mages; his actual fate is irrelevant."
And to the returning topic that Merrill could join Solas. For me it seems highly unlikely. First she dislikes pretty much the Dreadwolf and second she had friends like Varric who are protecting her. So no as long as Varric breaths she won´t ever join Solas. It´s almost impossible than Sera.
I only can see Shianni & Sketch and maybe Velanna as Solas allies but Zevran, Fenris, Merrill and Sera won´t joining him.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 26, 2021 18:19:07 GMT
I think Bull was too well liked to kill off. Sera might get the ax if she plays with magisters like she does the nobles in the south. Magisters don't mess around. Morrigan is the only character from DAO who I could see getting the axe and in DA2 I think only Fenris or Merrill have a chance on the block. I mean I don't see issabela going to tevinter to play with mages or the qunari.
Also I think Dorian was the most well liked character by neccesity almost. He is the best choice for a mage as the other is a snob who makes snobby comments and actually insults other characters for no reason and then the master of genocide himself who is also a bit touchy. Dorian by contrast even when insulting someone does it in a playful way or is justified in being angry. Most of the time his comments are at least entertaining. So if you want a mage in your party Dorian tends to be the way to go.
Depending on your decisions, Bull can be dead. If someone chooses to let the chargers die then their opinion is invalid.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 26, 2021 18:32:31 GMT
Depending on your decisions, Bull can be dead. If someone chooses to let the chargers die then their opinion is invalid. It saves far more lives, both at the moment and later, so it’s the better choice.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 26, 2021 20:35:16 GMT
Sure, fine, kill the setting's only gay man. It's not as if there's multiple popular straight characters who've had screentime in all three games. The only way I'd be okay with Dorian's death is if it's a Rogue One type ending where most of the cast just goes off to this suicide mission, including Dorian.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Aug 26, 2021 21:30:50 GMT
I don't think they would dare kill off Dorian. Why not though? Considering his popularity, it would really hit home if he bit the dust. And we all know that in BioWare games, existing characters will return juuust the way we remember them... Which is why I prefer to keep them to an absolute minimum. Thinking of popularity and suprise character changes. I do have to think of Cullen. Immensely popular in the fandom and with Bioware? Check. Surprise character bleach in DAI? Check. Merrill would never join Solas. She tells stories about not trusting Fen’Harel on two separate occasions in DA2, and Varric for sure would warn her. If anything her knowledge of Eluvians would have her help the protagonist. The only elven companion we’ve had who could join Solas is Velanna. If you use the stories and view of Dalish regarding Fen'Harel as an argument, you could say the same for Velanna.
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 26, 2021 21:35:35 GMT
That brings me to the question: if they were to kill off a returning character, which character do you think they'd kill off? Answering with Solas is cheating. I have a strong feeling Varric is going to die. Why else would they bring him back for the third run? He was already supposed to die in DA2's canceled expansion and they're also bringing the idol back so it seems like DA4 will really wrap his story up. And he never wanted to be a politician so it makes from that point of view too for him to die heroically rather than have to deal with Bran and endless paperwork for the rest of his life. Someone mentioned Calpernia and I agree with that. If they're bringing her back there needs to be a murder knife option. She could also start as a companion and then later be revealed that she actually still works for the Venatori. From enemies to friends to enemies again. That would be a nice character arc for her.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 26, 2021 23:04:47 GMT
Merrill would never join Solas. She tells stories about not trusting Fen’Harel on two separate occasions in DA2, and Varric for sure would warn her. If anything her knowledge of Eluvians would have her help the protagonist. The only elven companion we’ve had who could join Solas is Velanna. If you use the stories and view of Dalish regarding Fen'Harel as an argument, you could say the same for Velanna.] I agree. While I could see her joining, I think it’s unlikely. her time among the Wardens may have changed her views enough where she wouldn’t. Unless joining him was the only way to save her sister or something.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 26, 2021 23:56:51 GMT
Velanna probably wouldn't join the Wardens any more than Merrill would. She knows the same stories of the Dread Wolf. More importantly, Solas dislikes Grey Wardens.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 27, 2021 0:13:58 GMT
Remember when Gaider discussed the idea of Fenris possibly joining Solas on Twitter?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 27, 2021 0:28:35 GMT
Sure, fine, kill the setting's only gay man. It's not as if there's multiple popular straight characters who've had screentime in all three games. The only way I'd be okay with Dorian's death is if it's a Rogue One type ending where most of the cast just goes off to this suicide mission, including Dorian. I still wouldn't be okay with it, because there's dozens of other straight characters they haven't killed throughout the series. Killing a bunch now doesn't even out the death of the only gay man. Similarly, Game of Thrones isn't off the hook for killing its three gay men just because it killed a lot of straight people. A lot of straight people also survived, and in a broader media context, the percentage of gay characters that suffer and die is way higher than the number of straight characters who do. The vast, vast majority of straight characters get happy endings.
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Post by phoray on Aug 27, 2021 0:52:53 GMT
you side with the Templars and don’t have high enough support with her she’ll side with the mages and oppose you. so seldom side with the Templars that I had totally forgotten this could happen. I've also always locked Merrill in on either friendship or rivalry, so even when I did side with the Templars, she left me alone. I believe an extra added condition to the condition you've detailed is that Anders has to also be alive. They wanted you to have a mage for the end game so if Anders and Bethany are unable to be present, then Merril still won't turn on you. This is why I thought the "Merril couldn't be in Morrigan's spot for the Elven portion of DAI" was a little weak. Not enough loyalty, siding Templars AND simultaneously deciding to spare Anders is required for Merril to turn. It's 3 flags instead of just the one Flag needed for Leliana to get beheaded and they brought her back but Merril falling to the ground unconsious, head intact, in a rare rare instance, is enough to block her. I think Morrigan dying would be pretty epic but I really think she's the next Mythall body soooo... probably won't happen.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 27, 2021 3:00:39 GMT
you side with the Templars and don’t have high enough support with her she’ll side with the mages and oppose you. so seldom side with the Templars that I had totally forgotten this could happen. I've also always locked Merrill in on either friendship or rivalry, so even when I did side with the Templars, she left me alone. I believe an extra added condition to the condition you've detailed is that Anders has to also be alive. They wanted you to have a mage for the end game so if Anders and Bethany are unable to be present, then Merril still won't turn on you. This is why I thought the "Merril couldn't be in Morrigan's spot for the Elven portion of DAI" was a little weak. Not enough loyalty, siding Templars AND simultaneously deciding to spare Anders is required for Merril to turn. It's 3 flags instead of just the one Flag needed for Leliana to get beheaded and they brought her back but Merril falling to the ground unconsious, head intact, in a rare rare instance, is enough to block her. I think Morrigan dying would be pretty epic but I really think she's the next Mythall body soooo... probably won't happen. the two aren't that exclusive. If there is one thing Mythal is good at...is dying.
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Post by Adia on Aug 27, 2021 6:38:52 GMT
If Varric returns in any capacity I'll be convinced that he's the real protagonist of the Dragon Age franchise and we just played his various sidekicks. I don't get why BioWare always insists on making their worlds seem smaller than they are by having familiar faces pop up no matter where we go. It makes me wonder about how little confidence they must have in their new creations if they keep bringing back their old ones to generate player interest. It's cheap but affective. Most players seeing a familiar, friendly face will respond the same way as greeting an old friend. For Bioware, it's easier to write an already written character, and it's much easier in terms of concept art and character identification. So it's cheaper because less work goes into it. I'd love to have more new characters than returning ones, but lets be honest, if there's a large quantity there's going to be smaller quality. It'll probably mean less unique hairstyles and textures on characters that generally should have them (think like Traynor, Cortez, Gil, Suvi, Lexi etc). So if getting new characters means a large drop in character art, I'd rather just have returning characters. Also, if Varric is returning in DA4, which he probably will, you can bet your ass they're going to kill him. Be mentally prepared. It'll be either kill him or kill Dorian and commit a genocide. Just like Moridin. Mark my words.
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N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 27, 2021 6:56:55 GMT
If Varric returns in any capacity I'll be convinced that he's the real protagonist of the Dragon Age franchise and we just played his various sidekicks. I don't get why BioWare always insists on making their worlds seem smaller than they are by having familiar faces pop up no matter where we go. It makes me wonder about how little confidence they must have in their new creations if they keep bringing back their old ones to generate player interest. It's cheap but affective. Most players seeing a familiar, friendly face will respond the same way as greeting an old friend. For Bioware, it's easier to write an already written character, and it's much easier in terms of concept art and character identification. So it's cheaper because less work goes into it. I'd love to have more new characters than returning ones, but lets be honest, if there's a large quantity there's going to be smaller quality. It'll probably mean less unique hairstyles and textures on characters that generally should have them (think like Traynor, Cortez, Gil, Suvi, Lexi etc). So if getting new characters means a large drop in character art, I'd rather just have returning characters. Also, if Varric is returning in DA4, which he probably will, you can bet your ass they're going to kill him. Be mentally prepared. It'll be either kill him or kill Dorian and commit a genocide. Just like Moridin. Mark my words. Heh, I like a friendly familiar face as much as the next guy, so I'm agreeing with that point However, we're likely going to play a different protagonist again, and I personally just don't like having to pretend that I don't know Varric and "get to know him" all over again. It gets a bit repetitive. "Tell me about the champion". "Tell me about the Inquisitor". I'd rather not. So far, returning characters (Varric, Cassandra, Zevran etc) had new character models done for them anyway, probably simply because so many years pass between the various Dragon Age games that a re-export of the old assets simply wouldn't do anymore. They do save a bit of time because the character's design is already established though, that's true. If they really kill Varric I'll never trust any of their epilogues again. "He then became viscount of Kirkwall BUT ONLY for the two years or so that passed between DAI and DA4". Not saying that it won't happen, but jeez, they need to learn to let a character and his/her storyline go. Just like we need to learn to let our old protagonists go.
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Felya87
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Post by Felya87 on Aug 27, 2021 8:20:25 GMT
I don't see Dalish elves (Tevinter Nights had Dalish be on the Dread Wolf side) not being into follow Solas just based on the tales on Fen'harel. I doubt Solas would present himself as "the wolf God" (it would go against everything Solas had fought in the past), but as a powerful and knowledgeable mage called the Dread Wolf, like a code name or nickname, as it was the origin of the name.
I think the Dalish would actually be interested in someone using such an altisonant name that promise doom for their enemies (read: humans), and I doubt they would follow him or not based on religious belief.
I think the only reason Merrill would not have looked up at the elven rebel that use such an hominous name and apparently know so much of ancient elven artifacts may just be Varric's advice. And I'm not sure she would be able to resist the curiosity even with the advice. Resisting temptation about elven knowledge had never been Merrill's strong point, after all. I think she will not appear to fall in temptation only because of her possible death in DA2. Same for Velanna.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2021 9:34:24 GMT
I agree. While I could see her joining, I think it’s unlikely. her time among the Wardens may have changed her views enough where she wouldn’t. Unless joining him was the only way to save her sister or something. Velanna is slowing dying to the taint. So is her sister if she isn't dead already. Solas' agents says this is all the fault of the humans and the way the current world is set up. Join us and he will restore the world to how it should be, the world of the elves. I can see Velanna buying that.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2021 9:50:46 GMT
Also, if Varric is returning in DA4, which he probably will, you can bet your ass they're going to kill him. Be mentally prepared. It'll be either kill him or kill Dorian and commit a genocide. Just like Moridin. Mark my words. Well, they did hint at someone close to you dying next game but I have to admit I thought they might be talking about new characters, may be your LI or a choice between them and someone else, like in ME1 (if your LI is either Ashley or Kaidan). Varric dying in the act of destroying the idol would have a certain karma to it considering it was his family's expedition that brought it to light in the first place, and then him talking to Bianca that allowed Corypheus and the Venatori to locate the red lyrium and bring it to the surface. May be Varric and Biance (the dwarf) will go out in a blaze of glory together in order to save the world, from red lyrium if nothing else.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2021 10:06:17 GMT
I don't see Dalish elves (Tevinter Nights had Dalish be on the Dread Wolf side) not being into follow Solas just based on the tales on Fen'harel. I doubt Solas would present himself as "the wolf God" (it would go against everything Solas had fought in the past), but as a powerful and knowledgeable mage called the Dread Wolf, like a code name or nickname, as it was the origin of the name. I don't know if you can say the Dalish in Tevinter Nights were knowingly on Fen'Hare's side so far as I can recall (unfortunately my copy is packed away pending a house move at present so can't check). There was one who went looking for the idol in response to a dream he had. The others involved in that story were definitely hinted as not being Dalish, owing to having a different accent and better armour. There are apparently a whole bunch of Dalish who have moved up to the Arlathan Forest but without any explanation as for why. I don't buy the idea of Strife being a city elf who joined the Dalish. For a start off, why does he not have vallaslin after so many years with them? So there is the possibility that agents of Solas have infiltrated the Dalish, just as Felassan did, in order to manipulate them into doing their dirty work without actually admitting to who they are really working for. May be they just encourage the idea that this is in order to establish a new elven homeland or simply a fight back against the humans. There seems some suggestion of the agents of Solas actually believing this themselves. So it is entirely possible that the Dalish are working for Solas without actually knowing his true identity, having been recruited via intermediaries. Or may be they are so desperate for a better future that they are even willing to believe Fen'Harel will give this to them. The Dalish seem a diverse bunch. Whilst some might never trust him and some would see through his rhetoric, there are probably some who would sign up regardless of his previous reputation. After all, he succeeded in persuading enough elves to join him the first time round, only for them to realise their mistake as the world literally dropped out from under their feet.
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 27, 2021 16:04:34 GMT
you side with the Templars and don’t have high enough support with her she’ll side with the mages and oppose you. so seldom side with the Templars that I had totally forgotten this could happen. I've also always locked Merrill in on either friendship or rivalry, so even when I did side with the Templars, she left me alone. I believe an extra added condition to the condition you've detailed is that Anders has to also be alive. They wanted you to have a mage for the end game so if Anders and Bethany are unable to be present, then Merril still won't turn on you. Anders has to be 100% rival and all his personal quests has to be completed (including questioning beliefs). You can still kill him and Merrill in the same playthrough as long as those conditions are met. EDIT: Merrill's personal quest where she either breaks or keeps the Mirror will also have to be not done in order for her to turn on Hawke
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 27, 2021 17:18:33 GMT
Also, if Varric is returning in DA4, which he probably will, you can bet your ass they're going to kill him. Be mentally prepared. It'll be either kill him or kill Dorian and commit a genocide. Just like Moridin. Mark my words. It has just occurred to me that you have to take into account new players. For them neither of these will have the same clout as those familiar with them from previous games. It is possible they will attempt to build a connection with newcomers but it seems more likely they would choose to do this with a new character, or more than one, particular a love interest, so the emotional impact will be the same whether you have played before or not. I know this could also be said to be the case with ME3 but there was not the amount of time between games as there has been between DAI and DA4, so a greater chance that newcomers would opt to play all 3 in the trilogy in order, as I did. Just a thought.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 27, 2021 17:21:18 GMT
Also, if Varric is returning in DA4, which he probably will, you can bet your ass they're going to kill him. Be mentally prepared. It'll be either kill him or kill Dorian and commit a genocide. Just like Moridin. Mark my words. It has just occurred to me that you have to take into account new players. For them neither of these will have the same clout as those familiar with them from previous games. It is possible they will attempt to build a connection with newcomers but it seems more likely they would choose to do this with a new character, or more than one, particular a love interest, so the emotional impact will be the same whether you have played before or not. Just a thought. That wasn't the case with ME3. None of the new characters get killed off. Vega, Traynor, Javik, all survive. Only real potential casualty is Cortez, I won't even count Diana Allers, since, if you don't recruit her, you don't even know her. She's, effectively, a non-character. Either way.
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Post by Felya87 on Aug 27, 2021 17:43:01 GMT
don't know if you can say the Dalish in Tevinter Nights were knowingly on Fen'Hare's side so far as I can recall (unfortunately my copy is packed away pending a house move at present so can't check). There was one who went looking for the idol in response to a dream he had. The others involved in that story were definitely hinted as not being Dalish, owing to having a different accent and better armour. I may be wrong, but the elf looking up to the idol because of the dream told it so to the Cartha Dwarf, so could easily have been a lie, or just an ommission, since Solas may have given instruction by dream.
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Sept 28, 2019 14:19:10 GMT
September 2019
cuthbertbeckett
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 27, 2021 18:19:17 GMT
Thinking of popularity and suprise character changes. I do have to think of Cullen. Immensely popular in the fandom and with Bioware? Check. Surprise character bleach in DAI? Check. I really don´t think and hope that Cullen won´t kill off in DA 4. Greg Ellis is only his english voice actor and his french & german counterparts seems to be pretty nice guys. Someone mentioned Calpernia and I agree with that. If they're bringing her back there needs to be a murder knife option. She could also start as a companion and then later be revealed that she actually still works for the Venatori. From enemies to friends to enemies again. That would be a nice character arc for her. I don´t think that Calpernia will ever return to the Venatori. Besides she was only respected as Venatori leader because of Corypheus.
And now he is gone. Also remember that Calpernia wanted to use her als vessel.
So yeah i don´t believe that Calpernia would work with them again because of their views of slaves.
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