inherit
1020
0
Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
21,685
fylimar
5,415
Aug 16, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
August 2016
fylimar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by fylimar on Nov 19, 2017 11:35:31 GMT
Yes, and it is more believable. It makes her (almost) lovable! You see her crumble in the scenario, where she likes you, too. When she can't save her lover, she lost her composure - only for a short while, but she is very vulnerable in that moment. Those are the moments, I really like in companions.
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inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Nov 19, 2017 11:42:16 GMT
It makes her (almost) lovable! You see her crumble in the scenario, where she likes you, too. When she can't save her lover, she lost her composure - only for a short while, but she is very vulnerable in that moment. Those are the moments, I really like in companions. Everyone has his/her own weakness and someone, who s/he likes. I don't wonder, she love her lover and mourns him (this is why she's not a romance option). I suppose in the ancient times Corypheus had his own love too, or has a dog/cat/snake...
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inherit
1020
0
Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
21,685
fylimar
5,415
Aug 16, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
August 2016
fylimar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by fylimar on Nov 19, 2017 20:08:04 GMT
You see her crumble in the scenario, where she likes you, too. When she can't save her lover, she lost her composure - only for a short while, but she is very vulnerable in that moment. Those are the moments, I really like in companions. Everyone has his/her own weakness and someone, who s/he likes. I don't wonder, she love her lover and mourns him (this is why she's not a romance option). I suppose in the ancient times Corypheus had his own love too, or has a dog/cat/snake... Cory brought his beloved pet to the battle - and little draggy is a cuty, don't you think?
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inherit
3532
0
Jan 22, 2022 10:09:38 GMT
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Nov 19, 2017 21:24:27 GMT
Still in love with Vivienne. If I could romance her, I would in a heartbeat - she is just such an intrigueing and interesting character. Most of my characters don't agree with a lot of her opinions and still manage to get along well with her. I never had her redecorate my room so far, also I would love to see that scene No, you probably not. You love her, don't ruin this feeling with that scene. She's pathetic, petty and childish in it. I love that scene, but I dislike Vivienne... But undoubtedly interesting scene. I really don't know why we can't kick her out after that scene. She's blatantly antagonistic and subverting your authority and yet there's never an option to show her the door. Weird.
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inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Nov 19, 2017 21:26:13 GMT
No, you probably not. You love her, don't ruin this feeling with that scene. She's pathetic, petty and childish in it. I love that scene, but I dislike Vivienne... But undoubtedly interesting scene. I really don't know why we can't kick her out after that scene. She's blatantly antagonistic and subverting your authority and yet there's never an option to show her the door. Weird. Yes. That would be nice.
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xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
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Post by xerrai on Jan 22, 2018 21:26:57 GMT
I don't know how this escaped my notice, but wasn't Fiona the First Enchanter of the Montsimmard Circle at one point?
I mean, I know she was sent there when her magic ability was first discovered, but I always assumed that she became the first enchanter of a different tower before she became grand enchanter. But the codex entry about her explicitly states that she was first enchanter of the Montsimmard tower. Which is curious, since Vivienne and her codex entry make it seem like she was the undisputed First Enchanter of the Montsimmard circle ever since her election at a 'scandalous' age.
I feel like this should have gotten more attention in the game...
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inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 25, 2024 15:45:03 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 22, 2018 23:14:06 GMT
I don't know how this escaped my notice, but wasn't Fiona the First Enchanter of the Montsimmard Circle at one point? I mean, I know she was sent there when her magic ability was first discovered, but I always assumed that she became the first enchanter of a different tower before she became grand enchanter. But the codex entry about her explicitly states that she was first enchanter of the Montsimmard tower. Which is curious, since Vivienne and her codex entry make it seem like she was the undisputed First Enchanter of the Montsimmard circle ever since her election at a 'scandalous' age. I feel like this should have gotten more attention in the game... Yes, Fiona was the First Enchanter in the Montsimmard Circle. But only when he removed from the Wardens, and joined the Circle again (9:37), "I came to the Circle from the Grey Wardens because I saw something had to be done. In the Wardens, we learn to watch for our moment and seize it — and that moment is now." I suppose, Vivienne already was Court Jester Enchanter. So: Fiona became First Enchanter of Montsimmard after Vivienne. (At least according to me, this would be logical, but the story not always follows the path of logic, sometimes seems doesn't follow any path...)
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inherit
3532
0
Jan 22, 2022 10:09:38 GMT
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Jan 25, 2018 0:06:53 GMT
Vivienne does seem to have a habit of hating her successors. Fiona, Morrigan, I honestly think it's a complex or something with her.
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davesin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 489 Likes: 859
inherit
161
0
859
davesin
489
August 2016
davesin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by davesin on Jan 25, 2018 3:36:56 GMT
One is making an alliance with Tevinter Magister, the other one has no desire for dealing with politics or to dress as proper Orleasian lady, so... I think you can see what is her problem with them
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inherit
376
0
Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
3,474
opuspace
2,129
August 2016
opuspace
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Post by opuspace on Jan 31, 2018 0:13:03 GMT
No, you probably not. You love her, don't ruin this feeling with that scene. She's pathetic, petty and childish in it. I love that scene, but I dislike Vivienne... But undoubtedly interesting scene. I really don't know why we can't kick her out after that scene. She's blatantly antagonistic and subverting your authority and yet there's never an option to show her the door. Weird. I suspect she would have manipulated things so that the Inquisitor would have looked bad for booting her. But it's hard to do so when she doesn't bring any war table assets or a influence with clear benefits. The Winter Palace was a waste. There's always the option to dress her in plaidweave at least. Too bad she doesn't have any comment about certain designs. ...ah crud, she can pull the yellow off gloriously.
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inherit
975
0
Apr 13, 2024 10:00:53 GMT
1,677
cloud9
3,871
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 13, 2018 21:31:10 GMT
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mattjamho
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 243 Likes: 529
inherit
826
0
529
mattjamho
243
August 2016
matth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mattjamho on Mar 24, 2018 21:35:23 GMT
I really don't know why we can't kick her out after that scene. She's blatantly antagonistic and subverting your authority and yet there's never an option to show her the door. Weird. I suspect she would have manipulated things so that the Inquisitor would have looked bad for booting her. But it's hard to do so when she doesn't bring any war table assets or a influence with clear benefits. The Winter Palace was a waste. There's always the option to dress her in plaidweave at least. Too bad she doesn't have any comment about certain designs. ...ah crud, she can pull the yellow off gloriously. There is banter in game about the Empress fearing the consequences of angering Vivienne...or something to that extent. Although it's not included in game mechanics, or showed for that matter(more failings on the devs part with her character) we know Vivienne has significant clout socially and politically. I imagine she could be a thorn in the Inquisition's side if she wished, especially early on. Honestly I think the reason you can't boot her is that she becomes a candidate for Divine once recruited. Also, you could put that women in a trash bag and she'd make it look avant-garde.
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xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
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Post by xerrai on Apr 2, 2018 4:41:07 GMT
I suspect she would have manipulated things so that the Inquisitor would have looked bad for booting her. But it's hard to do so when she doesn't bring any war table assets or a influence with clear benefits. The Winter Palace was a waste. There's always the option to dress her in plaidweave at least. Too bad she doesn't have any comment about certain designs. ...ah crud, she can pull the yellow off gloriously. There is banter in game about the Empress fearing the consequences of angering Vivienne...or something to that extent. Although it's not included in game mechanics, or showed for that matter(more failings on the devs part with her character) we know Vivienne has significant clout socially and politically. I imagine she could be a thorn in the Inquisition's side if she wished, especially early on. Honestly I think the reason you can't boot her is that she becomes a candidate for Divine once recruited. Also, you could put that women in a trash bag and she'd make it look avant-garde. Actually that bit is a the result of Vivienne's confidence/bias toward herself than anything else. It was in response to the idea of Vivienne being 'ousted' from her high(er) position at court by Morrigan. And if Cole is to be believed on the matter then Celene was not so much afraid of angering Vivienne as much as she simply respected her. To quote: [...] Cole: You're angry at Morrigan. She took what you had without working. Vivienne: She took nothing. If Empress Celene wished the counsel of some untrained witch [Morrigan], she was free to seek it. Cole: Celene did not make you go away. She respected you. Vivienne: She feared the consequences of angering me. I think the banter was meant to show that Viv prefers being feared as opposed to being loved (or respected in this case). Still though, a lot of Vivienne's character is based on her political shrewdness, and I think they played on that a little to hard when creating her character.
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inherit
3532
0
Jan 22, 2022 10:09:38 GMT
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Apr 2, 2018 18:35:55 GMT
^^Agreed. She is largely defined by her position and Mage and Orlesian politics and little else.
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 13, 2018 23:42:58 GMT
I really don't know why we can't kick her out after that scene. She's blatantly antagonistic and subverting your authority and yet there's never an option to show her the door. Weird. I suspect she would have manipulated things so that the Inquisitor would have looked bad for booting her. But it's hard to do so when she doesn't bring any war table assets or a influence with clear benefits. The Winter Palace was a waste. There's always the option to dress her in plaidweave at least. Too bad she doesn't have any comment about certain designs. ...ah crud, she can pull the yellow off gloriously. It's hard to make someone look bad if you get an arrow to the back on your way home.
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inherit
376
0
Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
3,474
opuspace
2,129
August 2016
opuspace
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Post by opuspace on Apr 14, 2018 1:20:28 GMT
I suspect she would have manipulated things so that the Inquisitor would have looked bad for booting her. But it's hard to do so when she doesn't bring any war table assets or a influence with clear benefits. The Winter Palace was a waste. There's always the option to dress her in plaidweave at least. Too bad she doesn't have any comment about certain designs. ...ah crud, she can pull the yellow off gloriously. It's hard to make someone look bad if you get an arrow to the back on your way home. Makes me wonder how many assassination attempts might have been made on her. If so, would she survive them all?
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xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
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Post by xerrai on Apr 15, 2018 3:58:47 GMT
It's hard to make someone look bad if you get an arrow to the back on your way home. Makes me wonder how many assassination attempts might have been made on her. If so, would she survive them all? I can't account for any recent attempts, but I do know that her early career consisted of several assassination attempts. As well as several rumors/accusations of blood magic. Mostly by those who wanted to make an "example" out of a mage trying to rise above the usual permitted station. Those who were not sent away or taken care of by Bastien's political maneuvers were dealt with by Vivienne herself. I don't think she deals with assassination attempts as much anymore, but I think she does still deal with some from time to time. Assassinations are a regular part of The Game, after all. But I think its safe to assume that they are not too much of a problem for her (unless she's Divine).
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inherit
376
0
Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
3,474
opuspace
2,129
August 2016
opuspace
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Post by opuspace on Apr 15, 2018 4:02:56 GMT
Makes me wonder how many assassination attempts might have been made on her. If so, would she survive them all? I can't account for any recent attempts, but I do know that her early career consisted of several assassination attempts. As well as several rumors/accusations of blood magic. Mostly by those who wanted to make an "example" out of a mage trying to rise above the usual permitted station. Those who were not sent away or taken care of by Bastien's political maneuvers were dealt with by Vivienne herself. I don't think she deals with assassination attempts as much anymore, but I think she does still deal with some from time to time. Assassinations are a regular part of The Game, after all. But I think its safe to assume that they are not too much of a problem for her (unless she's Divine). Damn, this makes the Winter Palace all the worse in demonstrating how underused she is as a character. Too much tell and not enough show. But then, people might feel pressured to take her along if she gave too much of an advantage keeping approval up.
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Jarovbees
N3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 331 Likes: 1,062
inherit
2845
0
Jan 16, 2017 22:09:34 GMT
1,062
Jarovbees
331
Jan 16, 2017 19:33:21 GMT
January 2017
isana
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Jarovbees on Apr 15, 2018 15:53:04 GMT
I can't account for any recent attempts, but I do know that her early career consisted of several assassination attempts. As well as several rumors/accusations of blood magic. Mostly by those who wanted to make an "example" out of a mage trying to rise above the usual permitted station. Those who were not sent away or taken care of by Bastien's political maneuvers were dealt with by Vivienne herself. I don't think she deals with assassination attempts as much anymore, but I think she does still deal with some from time to time. Assassinations are a regular part of The Game, after all. But I think its safe to assume that they are not too much of a problem for her (unless she's Divine). Damn, this makes the Winter Palace all the worse in demonstrating how underused she is as a character. Too much tell and not enough show. But then, people might feel pressured to take her along if she gave too much of an advantage keeping approval up. It's even worse considering that Sera, another optional companion, gets a small quest in that area if you bring her along, but for Vivienne...nothing. I brought Madame de Fer along precisely because she would have been in her element, and it was severely disappointing to see that go nowhere.
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xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
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Post by xerrai on Apr 15, 2018 23:23:38 GMT
Damn, this makes the Winter Palace all the worse in demonstrating how underused she is as a character. Too much tell and not enough show. But then, people might feel pressured to take her along if she gave too much of an advantage keeping approval up. It's even worse considering that Sera, another optional companion, gets a small quest in that area if you bring her along, but for Vivienne...nothing. I brought Madame de Fer along precisely because she would have been in her element, and it was severely disappointing to see that go nowhere. Yeah it was kind of disappointing. The most you get out of Vivienne in terms of political maneuvers come in the form of table operations, and even those seemed a bit lacking. For someone who is a Court Enchanter and a so called leader of the loyalist mages, she doesn't really have or do anything to back that up.
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inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Apr 16, 2018 0:53:15 GMT
Yeah it was kind of disappointing. The most you get out of Vivienne in terms of political maneuvers come in the form of table operations, and even those seemed a bit lacking. For someone who is a Court Enchanter and a so called leader of the loyalist mages, she doesn't really have or do anything to back that up. Vivienne may have been bluffing her credentials, hoping to use the Inquisition as a means to restore her power/prestige. Morrigan had already usurped her position as the Court Enchanter and Bastien's ill-health meant that when her sugar-daddy died, she'd lose the access he provided her within certain influential circles. And with the College of Enchanters voting to disband the Circle, the title of "First Enchanter" no longer really meant anything, either. All this points to Vivienne actually being on the out with the Orlesian court, so her joining the Inquisition may have been a last-ditch effort to attempt to return to prominence?
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inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
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Post by Iddy on Jun 4, 2018 1:44:07 GMT
"Vivienne: So, an apostate? Solas: That is correct, Enchanter. I did not train in your Circle.
Vivienne: Well, dear, I hope you can take care of yourself, should we encounter anything outside your experience.
Solas: I will try, in my own fumbling way, to learn from how you helped seal the rifts at Haven.
Solas: Ah, wait. My memory misleads me. You were not there."
That is a strawman, Solas.
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inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Jun 4, 2018 3:14:49 GMT
Solas: I will try, in my own fumbling way, to learn from how you helped seal the rifts at Haven. Solas: Ah, wait. My memory misleads me. You were not there." That is a strawman, Solas. dont get this response. He can't seal rifts either so....
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 4, 2018 5:14:55 GMT
"Vivienne: So, an apostate? Solas: That is correct, Enchanter. I did not train in your Circle. Vivienne: Well, dear, I hope you can take care of yourself, should we encounter anything outside your experience. Solas: I will try, in my own fumbling way, to learn from how you helped seal the rifts at Haven. Solas: Ah, wait. My memory misleads me. You were not there." That is a strawman, Solas. Well, it did seem more just a jab in response to her incessant condescension. I think though that at times, her banter can feel kind of forced, with companions too easily being overtaken in their dialogue, especially someone like Solas, who has been around forever and knows more than Vivienne could even imagine.
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Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
inherit
1605
0
Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
952
Cantina
Vive la révolution mages!
532
Sept 16, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
September 2016
cantina
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Cantina on Jun 4, 2018 7:45:44 GMT
Solas: I will try, in my own fumbling way, to learn from how you helped seal the rifts at Haven. Solas: Ah, wait. My memory misleads me. You were not there." That is a strawman, Solas. dont get this response. He can't seal rifts either so.... It means he was the one trying to find a solution to closing the breech/rifts, and studying the Anchor.
Solas was using the above comparison to point out that just because a mage does not train in a Circle does not mean they are an idiot when it comes to magic by whatever aspect(s). Its his "polite" way of pointing out how ignorant Vivienne is. Which she is.
~Edit~ Really? 49 votes saying they love her and 80 votes for liking the biggest hypocritical bitch in the DA universe?!? OMG! I need a drink.
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