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N3
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Post by ergates on Oct 24, 2021 11:07:55 GMT
I guess we've all done it at least once.
Load up a game like Mass Effect, or Dragon Age and deliberately select the worst-possible options for every single scenario, being as rude as possible to everyone we interact with, deliberately selecting 'dick move' options that result in death, misery, suffering or alienation. We have a kind of car crash fascination in just how bad we can make things. I've done it myself, and I guess a lot of others have done it too.
Dragon Age Origins has a very large amount of potentual 'dick move' choices - ones that you'd only select out of perverse desire to be as unpleasant or evil as possible. Killing the Dalish is one such example, there's almost no justification for that course of action, along with other utterly dickish choices, such as using the "tell me or I'll kick your head in" dialogue option on the young love-struck elf who's desire will not bond with him as he has failed to pass his hunter trials... before going on to lie to her that the guy was bragging about sleeping with her, utterly ruiniing everything for them both - no justification for doing this save a desire to be as perversely nasty as possible.
But....
Whenever I try to play this way I end up feeling awful. I just can't help it. I end up feeling overcome with guilt, despite the fact it's just a game.
Killing Wrex on Virmire during my 'worst possible outcome' Mass Effect playthrough was insanely difficult to do, I had to mentally force myself to select the option, and I felt terrible afterward.
In a lot of ways I never actually 'enjoyed' these 'evil' playthoughs. They fill me with negative emotions, which is not a good way to feel - though a the same time they're interesting to experience.
Certainly in all my canon playthroughs I've been the most paragonish boy scout imaginable, helping everyone, and being an absolute goody two shoes.
So - to pose the original question: Does anyone out there genuinelly enjoy playing these kind of 'chaotic jerk' characters, and do so in an entirely guilt-free, unattached way? Or are you more like me? Doing so out of interest, but always with a sense of strange guilt?
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Post by samurailink on Oct 24, 2021 19:31:23 GMT
They're usually all done in one playthrough for me just to see them all, and rarely sprinkled into other re-plays. But I do take joy in being the pettiest asshole in Thedas for no good reason, things like convincing Zerlinda to abandon her baby, Sacrificing the Alienage elves for +1 con, selling Fenris back, making Erimond Tranquil. It's like getting to play an Orlesian.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 24, 2021 21:56:42 GMT
Not me realy I personally prefer playing the dashing hero of the piece rather than a nasty character. I've managed to do somewhat Renegade Shep's on occasion and I think in some cases it can be justified. Because for example whlist I do trust Wrex can the rest of his people on the other hand be trusted to keep peace and order given their previous violent tendencies? So in situqations like this it can be justified letting the Krogan die. In Dragon Age on the other hand I find it much harder to be nasty especially as in 2 of the games DAO and DAI you are supposed to be representing 2 very well respected organisations or at least in DAI one that hopes to be seen as one once it's had a chance t ogrow in the Inquisition and in the case of DAO tha torganisation being the Grey Wardens and really because of the situation you're in there isn't really any justification to be a dick in those games I don' tthink especiasll yas in both games you need as muc hhelp as you can get. Whereas in Mass Effect in the cases of the Krogan and Rachni and even the Geth to some extent it can beseen as minimizing the risk post Reaper war. Aside from the darkspawn in DA there really isn't a threat that needs that much control. Most fights that take place in DA are mainly disagreements not one group just literall y trying to wipe out the other. At least that' show I see i tfrom the games as I haven' tread the books. Only tim ethat cam eclose to happening was when the Mages and Templars started fighting one another end of the da ythough again this was mostl ydu et odisagreements I think most mages accepted their powers are dangerous when not kept under control. The yjust weren't happy with how the templars were handling it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 24, 2021 21:58:16 GMT
I’ve never done an evil playthrough in these games.
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LadyofNemesis
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 24, 2021 23:14:35 GMT
The only games where I can be evil are Overlord (the whole point of the game is being evil...or EVIL, 'cause that game has the regular evil and then there's the type of evil that has you taking maiden sacrifices...quite literally) and Elder Scrolls games (being a member of the Dark Brotherhood can be loads of fun)...oh and Sims I suppose, after all everyone's deliberately (or accidentally) let their sims die at some point
But as for Dragon age or Mass Effect...no, not really. I mean, I try to mix up things every now and then by taking the more "evil" approach in dialogues, just to make my characters feel more human and allowing them to (in my own words) make mistakes that haunt them for the rest of their lives. (Yes I'm cruel, I know )
Good example is my canon Warden (a Tabris), she has little patience for slavers and people in roles of authority (like nobles) So the first time I played her, I went with a "as said by Varric in the Dragon Age Keep" playthrough, which meant Redcliffe+Urn of Sacred Ashes > Circle of Magi > Brecilian Forest > Orzammar > everything else in between. Now, I went the "Jowan wants to redeem himself so let's set him free" route, which meant that I had somewhat intentionally screwed up the Connor bit. Because 1: Jowan was gone so no blood ritual possibility and 2: my Tabris had yet to learn of the troubles at the Circle so no ritual from them either. Which meant I had to make the choice of killing Connor. Now, this is considered a relatively evil choice, after all killing innocent children (even if said child is possessed by a demon that might want to go "blaaargh!" at any moment) is a big no no for me, but this also meant my Tabris had to carry that choice with her for the rest of her journey, especially since a certain people were reminding her of that choice a few times
I play games to enjoy myself, and I can't immerse nor enjoy myself if I play an evil bastard
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Oct 25, 2021 0:34:49 GMT
Never played an evil character because I know I'll never enjoy it. The exception is ME2; shoving the mercenary through the window.
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Post by xerrai on Oct 25, 2021 0:54:22 GMT
You know, its odd. In most games I often opt to play an evil playthrough at least once. And in Bethesda games evil playthroughs are what I end up playing almost exclusively (Hail Sithis!).
But in Bioware games? For some reason I can't bring myself to be an intentional di*k. The closest I'd get is a rugged militant bent on getting things done as efficiently as possible, but even then that is more due to pragmatism rather than intentional malice.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 25, 2021 1:15:08 GMT
I generally don't enjoy playing the "evil character" route too much because eventually it becomes a parody. I will sprinkle in the darker choices when I think the situation calls for it, but overall its the nice guy route for me. Just to answer the question, pushing a mercenary out a high window isn't evil either, its a public service.
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cribbian
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Post by cribbian on Oct 25, 2021 9:12:30 GMT
I always have one playthrough being as evil/dickish as possible. If I like the game enough to have several playthroughs that is.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 25, 2021 10:33:59 GMT
My one mage PT of DAO was an evil one...sort of. Made all the bad choices because reasons. It wasn't really a great RP experience, but I did enjoy it from a purely 'this is different to what I normally see in games' point of view.
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N7
Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 25, 2021 11:07:43 GMT
Never played an evil character because I know I'll never enjoy it. The exception is ME2; shoving the mercenary through the window. I wouldn't call that evil though more taking a precaution a sh emight call for reinforcements and come after you later. Bestto takre him down now while he's vulnerable.
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on Oct 25, 2021 12:54:22 GMT
KOTOR is probably my favorite game to be evil. I just finished another DS PT the other day and it was just as fun as I remembered.
MET renegade is also fun, although many of those choices aren't necessarily evil.
DA I don't remember too many full on evil PTs. Maybe in DAO a bit but I don't think DAI even really allows it too much. Choices in general in DA tend to be a bit greyer than ME or KOTOR though, so what constitutes evil is maybe not as clear.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Oct 25, 2021 15:48:53 GMT
I can't do completely evil characters. I never killed the rachni or wrex and never killed the virmire survivor in ME3 and so on. I have done renegade choices without a doubt but they are not "evil" ones. I tried but I couldn't bring myself to do some things.
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Post by fylimar on Oct 25, 2021 15:59:51 GMT
I don't do evil playthroughs. I might have the odd evil or not so nice decision, but normally, I play good characters, Most evil decisions, I had in SWTOR - for example my smuggler killed a lady, who betrayed her and got a business partner killed.
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Post by Walter Black on Oct 25, 2021 17:57:01 GMT
Personal nitpick: While I like Wrex and sympathize with the krogan plight, killing him on Virimire was in no way evil. Wrex pulled a gun on his commanding officer in essentially wartime, jeopardizing the mission and potentially handing Sovereign victory.
In universe, Shepard only has a split second to react, and can't pause or reload like we can. I usually prefer to talk him down, but given the context, I feel Shepard or Ash taking out Wrex is equally valid.
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Beerfish
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Post by Beerfish on Oct 25, 2021 19:35:58 GMT
I usually play goody two shoes my first play of any game. I then say I am going to go super bad dude the next game and will chose some of the nasty choices but I can rarely actually make all the bad ones due to conscience pangs.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 26, 2021 6:56:27 GMT
I generally find playing good or evil characters pretty much...uh what's the word I am looking for....real life morality does not really work like that. I want my RPGs to give us the greyest possible choices possible. Choices that make sense from a certain point of view but yet another character could find abhorrent because of their point of view.
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TabithaTH
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Post by TabithaTH on Oct 26, 2021 8:11:37 GMT
It depends on how evil the game lets you be.
I admit, whenever I played NWN or the like, I always ended up playing evil characters more like neutral characters.
I’ve only played ME once and that was mostly Paragon, so I can’t say for certain how I’d react. I do think that for me, despite the name, a renegade Sherperd would be one that always put the mission first, even before innocent lives. So it would be less Evil and more fanatically committed to their mission.
I feel like in DAI you couldn’t really be evil. At best you were incompetent or stupid/a jerk. That was actually kind of fun, seeing the companions get really disillusioned/pissed at my character.
I think the most evil I’ve actually played a character was a DAO PT. That was tough and not something I’d do again in DAO. Some of the major story points were fun enough (Like marrying Anora, executing Alistair and then getting Loghain to sacrifice himself just to be sure no one stood in the way of my PC). It made for a good story. Some of the more evil choices, however, were definitely not fun (almost made me yell at the screen ‘I swear I’m not like this’). It was mostly a horrible feeling and as glad as I am that I tried it, I will most likely never repeat that particular PT.
Edit: Also, making a 'bad/evil' choice can also be a way of making your character more complex. Like I mentioned with a potential Sherperd, sometimes you have to think about the greater good, even if your character would prefer for everyone to survive.
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Post by witchcocktor on Oct 26, 2021 10:13:02 GMT
I can't say I do. I generally need to like my character in order to actually like playing as well, so roleplaying a character that does a lot of things I don't agree with is really hard. Dragon Age is not the game where I want to be needlessly cruel or make asshole, even evil decision for the sake of it.
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coldsteelblue
N3
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Post by coldsteelblue on Oct 26, 2021 11:18:09 GMT
for me this ties into the how you construct your protagonist thread, because, as I said there, I roleplay my characters & I find it very easy to get into their headspace, so any decision I make as them in-game is one for their constructed personality & for me can be great fun, hell my arsehole Warden from DA:O is probably my favorite character, because I did shitty things.
I would also say it adds a freshness to the game, replayability too as you don't do the same thing over & over again
This is just my opinion of it though
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 26, 2021 13:55:45 GMT
I wouldn't say i do complete evil playthroughs. Characters certainly have moments where they can be selfish/heartless/jerky/dark
In Mass Effect i tend to prefer pragamtic renegade rather than evil, though I've certainly shoved a certain Mercenary out of a window as a shep or two.
In Dragon Age origins and dragon age 2 lots of my characters aren't completely pure of heart. a number of my characters interfered negatively in the Cammen/Gheyna thing either because of interest in Gheyna or just because they view Cammen as rather worthless.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Oct 26, 2021 17:42:49 GMT
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Oct 26, 2021 18:56:09 GMT
For me, I like evil playthroughs, but I feel that many games' evil options don't quite provide the benefits you'd want from taking evil actions. Yes, your companions and allies should be angry with you, but you should also have some positive consequences, too, to justify making that choice. There should be, you know, a reason why the player character decided to be unethical. It shouldn't be just Stupid Evil.
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Post by imatotachi on Oct 26, 2021 19:14:51 GMT
I've tried a few times playing fully fledged evil character in DA:O. I'm ALWAYS stopping at Ostagar, because I cannot force myself to kill the dog.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Oct 26, 2021 23:17:13 GMT
I've tried a few times playing fully fledged evil character in DA:O. I'm ALWAYS stopping at Ostagar, because I cannot force myself to kill the dog. Don't play Wolfenstein 2 The New Colossus then. No way not to kill the dog except for not shooting the dog. But if you don't the father kills the dog and as such... I like that I get to kill the father. I hate my biological father almost as much.
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