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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 6, 2021 18:52:56 GMT
8 years? I was under the impression that Solas tearing down the Veil was kind of an imminent threat. I suppose it couldn't have been that imminent because he mentioned how he thought you deserved a period of peace, which is why he led you to the Qunari plot. I can't remember precisely but didn't he say "years" at some point? People are right though that his ritual might have required several years to come to fruition. I recall him telling us that in ancient times it might take years for a spell to be performed. We also saw in the memories in the Vir Dirthara that a spell might require a large number of elves working together, in fact we see " thousands of elves are maintaining an elaborate magical ritual" and that was just to create an elaborate object not alter the fabric of the world. So it might not only require time but sufficient elves to be gathered too. If they haven't actual magical ability, I've often wondered if the reason he needs them is for the magic in their blood; in other words he is going to perform some sort of blood magic ritual. After all, that's what Corypheus and his pals used to open the Veil the first time he did it.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 6, 2021 18:59:00 GMT
I suppose it couldn't have been that imminent because he mentioned how he thought you deserved a period of peace, which is why he led you to the Qunari plot. I can't remember precisely but didn't he say "years" at some point? People are right though that his ritual might have required several years to come to fruition.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 6, 2021 19:09:56 GMT
I assume that Irving, Gregoir, Fiona, Ashalle, Athras, Old Barlin, Owen, Kalah Brosca, Burkel, Eamon,
Brother Genitivi, Lloyd and even King Harrowmont? I seem to recall that Irving died in Asunder during the conflict at the White Spire. Gregoir likely died at the Conclave with Divine Justinia. Since he was among the more reasonable Templars, it is likely he would have been there. Eamon was definitely getting close to the end back in DAI because wasn't that the reason he handed over his castle and title to Teagan? Most of those others you mention would not really be relevant now we are heading north, except perhaps the elves. Brother Genitivi could be dead (in some world states) but I think they decided that was just an inaccurate rumour (even though the Warden could actually have done the deed), which is why he returned in Tevinter Nights. He was fit enough to do a bit of adventuring then and they didn't give us a date for that adventure so he could well still be around. I don't think we are likely to see him though. Unless the Hero was successful in finding a cure, I don't think any of the Grey Wardens who were around during the Blight will still be active in 9:52 because, whilst it was a short Blight, nevertheless it is meant to speed up the rate of decline. Whilst Loghain was a Warden only briefly during the actual Blight, he was older to begin with, so that would put him on a similar footing to the younger characters. The ones who became Wardens after the Blight might fair a bit better as it would only be twenty years or so since they were initiated, so Sighrun, Oghran, Nathaniel and Velana might still be active. Anders was a special case apparently and DG said that either Justice would overcome the taint or the taint would overcome Justice (they hadn't made up their minds which), so either Anders might be free of the effects of the taint or would have gone totally crazy (or simply be dead).
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 6, 2021 19:19:55 GMT
8 years? I was under the impression that Solas tearing down the Veil was kind of an imminent threat. I have checked and it wasn't in Trespasser but in the Dread Wolf Take You. When Charter says "Did you expect us not to try and stop you?", he replies: "It was a moment of weakness. I told myself that it was because you all deserved to know, to live a few years in peace before my ritual was complete." Now it could be that PW included this because the writers had realised that Trespasser did make the threat sound more imminent than they intended because they were planning to skip forward in time for the next game. Still Solas has explained there why the world is still going in its present state in 9:52; his ritual is clearly not yet complete.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 6, 2021 19:29:57 GMT
I seem to recall that Irving died in Asunder during the conflict at the White Spire. That was Edmonde. We have last seen Irving at Wynne´s funeral. I thought that he lived his last years as a simple brother. Dragon Age Origins Epilogue: “Once the tower was rebuilt, Knight-Commander Greagoir stepped down from his post and retired to a life of private contemplation as a brother in the Chantry. His health failed over time, and after refusing treatment, he perished in his sleep. Knight-Commander Cullen was said to be more strict and less trusting of the mages even than Greagoir was. He ruled the Circle with fear.”
Of course you have to ignore the part with Cullen and imagine maybe more Hadley as Greagoir successor but i don´t see any reason why this couldn´t be Greagoirs fate as a simple brother. I don´t think that Bioware will reuse this minor characters if the player can kill them. I agree he doesn´t make much sense for a DA 4 with a northern setting (Tevinter, Seheron and Weisshaupt) And that´s why i hope that we will get an Anders / Justice cameo in DA 4. Clearly Bioware didn´t like the mad hermit concept art so where have he / they been if Anders hasn´t been killed in DA 2 of course?
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 6, 2021 20:03:55 GMT
That was Edmonde. We have last seen Irving at Wynne´s funeral. Yes, I checked in Asunder (which I have now located again after losing it for a while) and he was still alive at the end. I'm pretty sure he would have been at the Conclave though.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 6, 2021 20:07:29 GMT
I thought that he lived his last years as a simple brother. Dragon Age Origins Epilogue: “Once the tower was rebuilt, Knight-Commander Greagoir stepped down from his post and retired to a life of private contemplation as a brother in the Chantry. His health failed over time, and after refusing treatment, he perished in his sleep. Knight-Commander Cullen was said to be more strict and less trusting of the mages even than Greagoir was. He ruled the Circle with fear. Was this if you sided with the Templars? Only I really don't remember that being in my epilogue to DAO. I much prefer the idea that he lived out his days as a brother in the Chantry rather than fried at the Conclave. I wonder if Wynne ever told him what happened to his son? I'm pretty sure that Gregoire was meant to be the father from the way things are described in WoT2. I like to think that eventually he did meet up with Rhys.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 6, 2021 20:21:06 GMT
Was this if you sided with the Templars? Correct i am not sure if you also have to deny the mages independence to get this epilogue. I agree its a much better fate for an good character with flaws like Greagoir. Who knows this except Rhys? Maybe or maybe not but i like our idea that they meet.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 6, 2021 20:36:37 GMT
You can’t take the DAO epilogue slides as facts. BioWare says those are more rumors than anything. Remember, those were written before they got approval to make a series.
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Post by ThatDamnableRogue on Dec 6, 2021 20:43:32 GMT
I suppose it couldn't have been that imminent because he mentioned how he thought you deserved a period of peace, which is why he led you to the Qunari plot. I can't remember precisely but didn't he say "years" at some point? People are right though that his ritual might have required several years to come to fruition. I recall him telling us that in ancient times it might take years for a spell to be performed. We also saw in the memories in the Vir Dirthara that a spell might require a large number of elves working together, in fact we see " thousands of elves are maintaining an elaborate magical ritual" and that was just to create an elaborate object not alter the fabric of the world. So it might not only require time but sufficient elves to be gathered too. If they haven't actual magical ability, I've often wondered if the reason he needs them is for the magic in their blood; in other words he is going to perform some sort of blood magic ritual. After all, that's what Corypheus and his pals used to open the Veil the first time he did it. That makes a lot of sense. If nothing else, I suspect it would take him time to gather the elves and marshal his forces before making attempt to bring the Veil down. Still, 8 years seems like a pretty big gap. That's almost a decade since he revealed his plan to us. Surely he'd have enough resources and people by then? Wouldn't a shorter timeskip make more sense? I assume The Dread Wolf Take You is another novel? I have only read The Calling, Stolen Throne, Asunder, Masked Empire, and Last Flight. Silly Bioware, once again shoving important lore and other information critical to future games into side reading material Anyway, if his ritual is still going by then, Solas clearly isn't as powerful as he thought. I guess the egg is on his face Maybe this deserves it own thread but i wonder who has died between DAO aka 9:30 and 9:52? I assume that Irving, Gregoir, Fiona, Ashalle, Athras, Old Barlin, Owen, Kalah Brosca, Burkel, Eamon, Brother Genitivi, Lloyd and even King Harrowmont? I don´t think that Bioware kill off any important Warden character besides who was been left in the Fade. Edit: Sigrun should also unfortunately be dead at 9:52. Sad to think about for some of those characters, but probably necessary to move the story along.
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Post by Zemgus on Dec 6, 2021 20:47:58 GMT
I suppose it couldn't have been that imminent because he mentioned how he thought you deserved a period of peace, which is why he led you to the Qunari plot. I can't remember precisely but didn't he say "years" at some point? People are right though that his ritual might have required several years to come to fruition. I recall him telling us that in ancient times it might take years for a spell to be performed. We also saw in the memories in the Vir Dirthara that a spell might require a large number of elves working together, in fact we see " thousands of elves are maintaining an elaborate magical ritual" and that was just to create an elaborate object not alter the fabric of the world. So it might not only require time but sufficient elves to be gathered too. If they haven't actual magical ability, I've often wondered if the reason he needs them is for the magic in their blood; in other words he is going to perform some sort of blood magic ritual. After all, that's what Corypheus and his pals used to open the Veil the first time he did it. That makes a lot of sense. If nothing else, I suspect it would take him time to gather the elves and marshal his forces before making attempt to bring the Veil down. Still, 8 years seems like a pretty big gap. That's almost a decade since he revealed his plan to us. Surely he'd have enough resources and people by then? Wouldn't a shorter timeskip make more sense? For an ancient being like Solas 8 years is nothing. Maybe he learned his lesson about not rushing things when he gave his orb to Corypheus.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 6, 2021 20:52:09 GMT
You can’t take the DAO epilogue slides as facts. BioWare says those are more rumors than anything. Remember, those were written before they got approval to make a series. Like i said the part with Commander Cullen is no longer canon but i don´t see any reason why Greagoir couldn´t get his fate as a simple brother. Because unlike Cullen Greagoir is a character that Bioware won´t have ever needed in a big role for future games. So yeah i think that some epilogue slides are still becoming true.
Don´t you also agree that this is a better fate for him than dying horrible at the conclave? I guess not because i am talking with Hanako who hates almost every DA character.
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Post by ThatDamnableRogue on Dec 6, 2021 20:57:48 GMT
True enough, but then that kind of nerfs the sense of urgency, doesn't it? If ancient elven spells took years to cast, he might not bring down the Veil until the next century for all we know. The writers could make DA4 take place a few decades after the events of Trespasser by that logic. (They won't, but they could, is what I'm saying). So much for high stakes lol.
However, he must know that the longer he takes, the higher the chances are of someone stopping him, so there has to be some amount of haste involved, yes? Unless a part of him is hoping that someone will stop him. (I know he says "I treasure the chance to be wrong again" but I don't really believe he means it, or that he even believes it himself.)
edit: this was in response to zemgus, I didn't see cuthbert's post before I commented
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Post by necrowaif on Dec 6, 2021 21:12:45 GMT
It’s interesting, since Dark Fortress was said to be set 15 years after the Battle of Ostagar. That means they’re moving ahead another seven years.
I wonder if that’s enough time for all the Lavellans who romanced Solas to turn into the elven equivalent of Miss Havisham, the crazy old bat from Great Expectations …?
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 6, 2021 21:51:39 GMT
I assume The Dread Wolf Take You is another novel? It's one of the short stories in Tevinter Nights.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 6, 2021 21:58:49 GMT
True enough, but then that kind of nerfs the sense of urgency, doesn't it? It does make it easier for them to explain why the Inquisitor isn't running around frantically trying to hunt him down and why it is possible for him to be stopped. I just hope they don't end up with us interrupting the ritual and that resulting in some unforeseen consequences. I also had the idea that may be at the end of the ritual he has to go into Uthenera to complete it and that is when he will be most vulnerable, or may be he has already done so because he needed to be in uthenera from the beginning of the process, to act as a living foci.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 6, 2021 22:10:28 GMT
True enough, but then that kind of nerfs the sense of urgency, doesn't it? It does make it easier for them to explain why the Inquisitor isn't running around frantically trying to hunt him down and why it is possible for him to be stopped. I just hope they don't end up with us interrupting the ritual and that resulting in some unforeseen consequences. I also had the idea that may be at the end of the ritual he has to go into Uthenera to complete it and that is when he will be most vulnerable, or may be he has already done so because he needed to be in uthenera from the beginning of the process, to act as a living foci. No it doesn't. What, the Inquisitor is not going to care as much that the world and everyone in it is going to die because it's been a few years?
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Post by Buckeldemon on Dec 7, 2021 4:34:18 GMT
You can’t take the DAO epilogue slides as facts. BioWare says those are more rumors than anything. Remember, those were written before they got approval to make a series. I guess not because i am talking with Hanako who hates almost every DA character. I did not get the impression that Hanako hates most andrastian/Chantry-aligned characters. Besides, according to some, hating Chantry this is my job.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Dec 7, 2021 5:01:26 GMT
I guess not because i am talking with Hanako who hates almost every DA character. Cuthbertbeckett, may I introduce you to Francesca?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 7, 2021 5:05:06 GMT
You can’t take the DAO epilogue slides as facts. BioWare says those are more rumors than anything. Remember, those were written before they got approval to make a series. Like i said the part with Commander Cullen is no longer canon but i don´t see any reason why Greagoir couldn´t get his fate as a simple brother. Because unlike Cullen Greagoir is a character that Bioware won´t have ever needed in a big role for future games. So yeah i think that some epilogue slides are still becoming true.
Don´t you also agree that this is a better fate for him than dying horrible at the conclave? I guess not because i am talking with Hanako who hates almost every DA character. I was speaking just in general to the topic. And yes some come true, but I was just saying not all were. And as mentioned that slide isn’t available to everyone. Um, nice trying to insult I guess? Also yes living on a farm or whatever is a better fate than dying. There are very few characters I feel deserve that.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 7, 2021 7:45:07 GMT
The Qunari had been orchestrating a prolonged period of intelligence gathering at the suggestion of Sten when he was a junior officer. He had said that would be the only way they could achieve their goal of conquest. He said this after their last failed offensive against Tevinter in 9:11. Once he became Arishok, he could start to plan his future campaign based off the intelligence he was receiving. Arishok Sten understood this. Tevinter feared him because he was a thoughtful Arishok who valued intelligence gathering and undermining the enemy from within. Why would Sten break with the Ariqun when they were giving him the information he considered vital for success? Why would advance recklessly without giving thought to ongoing support by auxiliary forces supplied by the Arigena? Why would consider invading Antiva before Tevinter was secured, thus breaking the Llomerryn Accord and bringing in the other nations on the side of his enemy? The retconn about Sten being this wise thoughtful Arishok is rather amusing to me because I clearly remember Sten not understanding at all why my Warden wanted to gather allies instead of just marching directly to the Deep Roads to find the Archdemon. He was a complete brickhead in DAO and then WoT2 suddenly tried to sell him as this visionary leader & ultimate strategic genius. character growth.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 7, 2021 7:48:55 GMT
And there really was no.sense of urgency at the end of Tresspasser. The mistake was ours if we assumed something that was never supplied. Though I do constantly wonder how developed Solas's plan will be by the time we hit DA4.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 7, 2021 8:12:18 GMT
And there really was no.sense of urgency at the end of Tresspasser. The mistake was ours if we assumed something that was never supplied. Though I do constantly wonder how developed Solas's plan will be by the time we hit DA4. Solas was busy creating these:
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 7, 2021 8:45:52 GMT
And there really was no.sense of urgency at the end of Tresspasser. The mistake was ours if we assumed something that was never supplied. Though I do constantly wonder how developed Solas's plan will be by the time we hit DA4. No sense of urgency? So if you were told that in a few months or years your country would be destroyed would you just wait until the day of before doing anything? And what else were we supposed to assume from BioWare when they put that in?
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 7, 2021 9:40:10 GMT
That doesn't work as an explanation because Sten was suggesting the intelligence strategy as a junior officer around 9:11, well before his meeting with the Hero in DAO. However, it can be explained by the fact that dealing with the Arch-demon required a different strategy to the one he was recommending to his superiors. The delay in attacking the Arch-demon was because the Hero didn't have a big enough army and so needed to recruit allies. This is rather different to suggesting sending agents out undercover to discover as much as possible about your enemy before embarking on a major campaign against them. The Grey Wardens already knew all the needed to know about the Arch-demon and the darkspawn. Up until DAI, the Qun were not really big on forming alliances. So far as they were concerned everyone else was Bas. The Llomerryn Accord was just a tactic to give them time to regroup and focus on the major enemy, Tevinter. Sten says it was regarded as simply a piece of paper that seemed to keep the other side happy but he hinted that they didn't consider themselves bound by it and would break it when it suited them to. I just questioned why the Antaam would do this after embarking on a major assault against Tevinter, when it would split their forces and bring the other nations in on the side of their enemy. The alliance with the Inquisition was simply one of convenience too. The Qun were worried about the flow of red lyrium to Tevinter and knew that the Inquisition was likewise concerned about the substance, so it was an alliance of convenience which the Qun would use so long as it was in their interests to do so. However, they continued to work against the southern nations and the Inquisition behind the scenes through the use of their agents in the field, just as Sten had suggested should be the case. From what I understand about the history of Sten, up until he made his suggestion, the Qun had been mostly about periodic assaults on mainland Tevinter that had been for the most part successfully repelled by Tevinter's superior magical power. This wasn't sufficient for Tevinter to go on the offensive against Par Vollen, merely to keep a sort of stale mate situation, with the ebb and flow mostly occurring on the strategic location of Seheron. What Sten proposed was using agents to discover as much as they could about the enemy before undertaking the next all out assault and also to undermine the enemy from within with a network of agents across Thedas working undercover. That is where people like the Iron Bull and Tallis came in. This strategy almost paid off in Kirkwall and would have succeeded but for Hawke. It also nearly succeeded with the Dragon's Breath plot but was thwarted by Solas, owing to his loathing of the Qun. However, it did work when they directed their attention back to the Tevinter mainland as it would seem it caught Tevinter on the hop. Hence the initial success in sweeping across eastern Tevinter. However, I imagine that if the Antaam have broken with Par Vollen, eventually that progress would slow because they would no longer be getting the co-operation of the Ben'Hassrath, who were responsible for the covert network, plus Tevinter finally getting their act together and mounting an effective defence.
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