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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 4, 2022 19:46:10 GMT
Yes, yes there is. And yes, SuperMac has a fixation towards Liara.
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Post by Phantom on Jan 5, 2022 1:00:00 GMT
To us, yes she does. To normal fans, maybe. To her fans(they are legions), No there is not enough content for her.
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Jan 5, 2022 15:00:17 GMT
Yes and no. She is the only non-human squad mate you have to recruit in ME1, and cannot be killed until the beam run in ME3. In ME3 Liara is the only squad mate from the first two games guaranteed to be there. So who logically is going to get the most attention? A character that everyone will have in their squad in ME3 or characters who were possibly never recruited or killed off in previous games? I agree Liara can feel a bit forced on the player but at the same time I understand why Bioware chose to have her play a larger role than other characters. They wrote themselves into a bit of a corner due to the choices players could make in the first two games.
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Post by malgus on Jan 7, 2022 0:43:39 GMT
As mikaelnovasun said before me, the reason Liara got more content in ME 3 is not necessarly because BW loves her more but because she is the only previous companion from ME 1 or 2 to be sure to be alive by that point. Any writing, voice acting and programming that went into her content will be seen by the totality of the audience.
The suicide mission made ME 3 much more difficult to bring back old characters as the story needs to be able to go without them because they can be potentially dead. Even fan favorite tali was close to not be included in ME 3 because for many players, they won't access her content due to her death in ME 2. And even with her being present in ME 3, she only joins the normandy after two thirds of the game has been completed.
The average players (the huge majority of the audience) will at best finish the game once and won't bother to start it another time. If tali would have the role of Liara in ME 3 and she dies, it means all the ressources of writing, voice acting and programming made into her cutscenes will be wasted for a huge chunk of the audience.
There was no way that a character like Miranda or jack was going to get would get as much content as Liara simply because for the big audience it might be wasted ressources. A character that can potentially die will always get secondary role in the sequels and it kinda make sense as the story needs to be able to go without them.
The possible death of lelianna in DAO forced the developper with 2 options, either they make a retcon for her surviving the game regardless of what happen to allow her to have big role in the sequel... OR she gets a secondary role in any sequels to come. But the studio was not going to make 2 completely different advisor for the inquisitor in DAI in case she was dead as this would have been a huge wastes of ressources. No studio would put that much money and time into making 2 completely different characters that would be with you from beginning to end depending on a decision from a game that came out 5 years before.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 7, 2022 4:20:21 GMT
Anyone else find it odd that the thread poster deleted their post? Or it just me?
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Post by themikefest on Jan 7, 2022 19:32:23 GMT
Yes. At least in ME3. Some of the content she has doesn't make sense for her to have.
At the beginning of Mars she tells Shepard to get to cover. Why didn't Anderson do that on Earth? There were a couple opportunities for him to say that.
After talking with Hackett after Mars. Just have the game go to fade-to-black instead of having the whatever between t'soni and Shepard.
The first dream. T'soni mentions the turians won't do anything until their Primarch is rescued. Shepard already knew that. No purpose for the asari to repeat that.
On Menae. Why is she the one telling Shepard about Victus, if Garrus is not in ME3, instead of General Corinthus? He's always there. He knows Victus personally.
The second dream. Was it necessary for the asari to go to Shepard's cabin to tell her/him the salarian councilor wants to talk? Why couldn't t'soni use the intercom? Or was it faster to go to the cabin? Why couldn't Traynor or edi tell Shepard over the intercom?
I would add ME1/2 as well, but fortunately the game is setup where the player can deal with her for a very brief time in ME1. In ME2, she can be ignored for the whole game except the broker dlc, if the player chooses to play it.
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Post by sageoflife on Jan 8, 2022 23:14:42 GMT
The developers' favoritism towards Liara has actively harmed the story and even Liara's character at points. They never should have made her the one to give Shepard's body to Cerberus. Legion and the original squad's subsequent ignorance made a lot more sense.
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Post by Blast Processor on Jan 8, 2022 23:30:52 GMT
I feel like Liara and Cerberus are often used as "easy" solutions to fill gaps in the story and/or gameplay. Though it doesn't hurt that she is a fan favourite. I have some sympathy, game development is usually hell, but at some point you gotta pull the plug.
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Post by masseffectfanforlife on Jan 9, 2022 0:16:52 GMT
Yes. At least in ME3. Some of the content she has doesn't make sense for her to have. At the beginning of Mars she tells Shepard to get to cover. Why didn't Anderson do that on Earth? There were a couple opportunities for him to say that. After talking with Hackett after Mars. Just have the game go to fade-to-black instead of having the whatever between t'soni and Shepard. The first dream. T'soni mentions the turians won't do anything until their Primarch is rescued. Shepard already knew that. No purpose for the asari to repeat that. On Menae. Why is she the one telling Shepard about Victus, if Garrus is not in ME3, instead of General Corinthus? He's always there. He knows Victus personally. The second dream. Was it necessary for the asari to go to Shepard's cabin to tell her/him the salarian councilor wants to talk? Why couldn't t'soni use the intercom? Or was it faster to go to the cabin? Why couldn't Traynor or edi tell Shepard over the intercom? I would add ME1/2 as well, but fortunately the game is setup where the player can deal with her for a very brief time in ME1. In ME2, she can be ignored for the whole game except the broker dlc, if the player chooses to play it. Well, how about this scenario: My Shepard is currently in a relationship with Liara. What if, after ME1, I decide to put her in a relationship with Garrus? I would like to know what happens during several scenes between Shep and Liars during LOTSB and ME3 (if Shep starts a relationship with Garrus behind Liara's back): What do they say to each other: -After killing Vasir? -During the scene on the Normandy at the end of the mission when Liara is invited to the cabin? -When Shep and Liara see each other again on Mars (do they hold hands)? When you have that one conversation with Liara on the citadel (when Liara reminisces about her mother), what does Shep say to her after breaking it off completely with her earlier in the game?
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Post by mikaelnovasun on Jan 10, 2022 13:32:46 GMT
My only issue with Liara when I get right down to it, is if you are romancing someone outside the squad in ME3 she still throws the blatant flirt at Shepard during the Citadel dlc. I tend to RP Shepard and Liara as seeing each other as family after their melds in ME1, and so I play the flirt off as her poking fun at Shepard. For how many moments she has with Shepard in ME3 when you do romance, she still refers to Shepard as just a friend in almost half of their conversations.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jan 13, 2022 16:01:03 GMT
I have usually romanced Jack or Traynor....Only once when I first got into ME did I try romancing Liara, and I found her naïve, flirtatious school-girl personality in ME 1 a bit of a turn off at first, but continued the romance in 2 and 3 and was happy to see the growth and maturity of her character. I do agree that (from a Dev stand point) there is a romance focus/push for Players to choose Liara over other romanceable characters....some could say even in lieu of developing other character content (such as Jack or Tali, or making Ash a stronger, deeper character), but to echo something that Mikaelnovasun said in the post above me.... When I am involved with another character and have approached Liara strictly as a really good friend....I can appreciate her flitatious comments as such, coming from a point of strong friendship who maybe likes to tease and flirt....But respects the boundary line that Shepard has put up by being romantically involved with another character.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jan 16, 2022 5:45:33 GMT
My only issue with Liara when I get right down to it, is if you are romancing someone outside the squad in ME3 she still throws the blatant flirt at Shepard during the Citadel dlc. I tend to RP Shepard and Liara as seeing each other as family after their melds in ME1, and so I play the flirt off as her poking fun at Shepard. For how many moments she has with Shepard in ME3 when you do romance, she still refers to Shepard as just a friend in almost half of their conversations. That's honestly one of the reasons I will go to the mat on Garrus having a better romance than Liara. Especially in 3, but to some extent in 2, Liara keeps forgetting you're a couple or having no extra dialogue for romanced Shepard, whereas Garrus almost always has something. Part of that is, of course, that Liara is guaranteed to be there so she has some exposition lines, but it really comes across a bit awkward.
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I've revived Shepard, but I'm sending him in a Suicide Mission.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by MegaIllusiveMan on Jan 20, 2022 22:37:25 GMT
Yes, and that's coming from someone who loves the character and even romances her on a canon playthrough. Some things are justified, but here we go:
We had a whole DLC centered around her, went to her homeworld and had to deal with her losing it during and after, she is also responsible for discovering the Mars Archives and to create content to preserve races for the future with beacons.
Also, we get a whole comic about how she recovered Shepard's body - so ME2 happens because of her. She is crucial to the plot, since you can't discover Ilos without her and she also can't be killed unless you fuck up bad with the War Assets.
Her mother is Saren's right hand, and she also is the only one who can be romanced in all of the three games.
Also, can we talk about how ME2 only works if Liara was indeed in love with Shepard? Sure, go out of your way to rescue a human that may have left your recruitment mission for last and only used you to discover Ilos and had no time to bond. Shouldn't the VS be instead part of the Redemption comic run?
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Post by Upggrade on Jan 20, 2022 23:08:47 GMT
It's not that there's too much Liara, it's that there's not enough everybody else.
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Post by Phantom on Jan 21, 2022 0:26:07 GMT
Yes, and that's coming from someone who loves the character and even romances her on a canon playthrough. Some things are justified, but here we go: We had a whole DLC centered around her, went to her homeworld and had to deal with her losing it during and after, she is also responsible for discovering the Mars Archives and to create content to preserve races for the future with beacons. Also, we get a whole comic about how she recovered Shepard's body - so ME2 happens because of her. She is crucial to the plot, since you can't discover Ilos without her and she also can't be killed unless you fuck up bad with the War Assets. Her mother is Saren's right hand, and she also is the only one who can be romanced in all of the three games. Also, can we talk about how ME2 only works if Liara was indeed in love with Shepard? Sure, go out of your way to rescue a human that may have left your recruitment mission for last and only used you to discover Ilos and had no time to bond. Shouldn't the VS be instead part of the Redemption comic run? Well that makes Liara a potential to be a Mary Sue.
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Post by burningcherry on Jan 21, 2022 3:23:45 GMT
Yes. Her role in ME1 makes sense and ME2 mostly keeps her in a paid DLC that lacks translations but there's way too much of her in ME3. That she's the only one guaranteed to have survived by that point doesn't matter because many of her roles did not need to be taken by *anyone*. No one needed to barge into Shepard's cabin, interrupt turian officers on Menae etc. There's no reason why Thessia was supposed to be more mourned than, say, Palaven. Shepard's combat-capable non-squad romances were perfectly fit to be the rescuers in the Citadel DLC. Some more examples were mentioned so you get the picture.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jan 21, 2022 5:25:31 GMT
As long as I have been playing bioware games there has always been one or two squadmates that were generally more important than the rest. Yet for some reason it bugs some ME fans that Liara has that mantle for ME. Though in her case I would say more for ME 1 and ME 3. Even though she has a DLC in ME2 dedicated to her she is still sidelined for the main game in the middle entry of the trilogy and ME2 is a big middle entry.
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Post by damdil on Jan 21, 2022 14:24:25 GMT
While not being the biggest fan of Liara I think she doesn't get that much more contents than most of the other "main" characters(like i.e. Garrus) and the biggest reason for this to begin with is overall probably her early introduction in basically every game of the trilogy. However it depends if you only count in her off-mission content or also involve her dialogue and role during missions and the associated cutscenes. It should also be noted that in ME2 she only plays the role of a minor character storywise.
If you're asking in terms of romance, well I don't exactly know. Like 8 years ago I once made a "Liara-only" playthrough of the trilogy, but I don't really remember anything of it. With LE, I romanced her in ME 1 but imo the writing felt a little awkward overall and the amount of extra dialogue seemed pretty low, too. In terms of love interests, the role of the Shadowbroker DLC is somewhat interessting and has some content which you maybe could call blantant displays of favoritism. However some of it may be linked due to strict developement deadlines etc. What I'm refering to are mostly the conclusion scenes, where for example even rejecting Liara for another love interest will result in a quick peck from her and at least me for it felt quite strange that Shepard seems to be utterly devasted when Liara leaves the Normandy after rejecting her again in his cabin. You could argue that this implies that the "good" ending for this DLC is rekindling the romance between Shepard and her and not accomplishing this is the "bad" ending, but you could also probably make time pressure on the devs responsible for this binary kind of ending.
On a side note, the Shadowbroker DLC felt very similar to the character of Shani in Witcher 3's Hearts of Stone DLC(which I actually played before I first played through Shadowbroker) where basically rejecting Shani is more complicated than anything else and the ending always will at least result in a kiss.
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Post by midnightwolf on Feb 2, 2022 21:23:39 GMT
I cannot believe that THIS is actually a question. :/
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Post by midnightwolf on Feb 3, 2022 23:30:54 GMT
I feel like Liara and Cerberus are often used as "easy" solutions to fill gaps in the story and/or gameplay. Though it doesn't hurt that she is a fan favourite. I have some sympathy, game development is usually hell, but at some point you gotta pull the plug. Hmm. She may have been a favourite for old fans of the series, but I doubt that is true for people introduced to the OT via LE. I didn't decide to give ME a try until 2016 and immediately disliked her. That said I was in my mid thirties, so maybe fan age is a factor. I'd be very interested in seeing the results of a poll from new players, and not old ones.
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Post by talyn82 on Feb 4, 2022 0:44:21 GMT
I feel like Liara and Cerberus are often used as "easy" solutions to fill gaps in the story and/or gameplay. Though it doesn't hurt that she is a fan favourite. I have some sympathy, game development is usually hell, but at some point you gotta pull the plug. Hmm. She may have been a favourite for old fans of the series, but I doubt that is true for people introduced to the OT via LE. I didn't decide to give ME a try until 2016 and immediately disliked her. That said I was in my mid thirties, so maybe fan age is a factor. I'd be very interested in seeing the results of a poll from new players, and not old ones. Well I first played the ME series when the Legendary Edition was released last summer. So I am a relatively new fan, and I like Liara. But that is because of two things one, she has a sweet personality, and two, she's an archeologist and historian. I am a history buff in real life and always wanted to be an archeologist, so when I had to choose between Ashley or Liara, I chose Liara each time. I've only completed the trilogy two times and romanced Liara twice and no one else. I have a game in progress and romanced Ashley, but I have not completed that playthrough yet.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 5, 2022 14:57:32 GMT
When I first played Mass Effect 1 for the very first, I romanced Liara but the more I played the more I was kinda turned off by her shameless flaunting and throwing herself at you especially in 1. So I turned to romancing Ash. Then ME 2 came out and I was hurt by how Ash totally dumped me, so even when playing I looked for someone else to romance. It was then that I discovered Jack, and I have romanced Jack (playing as default appearance of John Shepard) ever since.
Playing as FemShep.... I tried Kaiden's romance and I enjoyed it. For my FemShep playthrough it's either Kaiden or Traynor....and 9 x out of 10, I romance Traynor. But mostly I play as John and romance Jack. I see Liara as a really, really close friend but nothing more.
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Post by talyn82 on Feb 5, 2022 22:35:34 GMT
When I first played Mass Effect 1 for the very first, I romanced Liara but the more I played the more I was kinda turned off by her shameless flaunting and throwing herself at you especially in 1. So I turned to romancing Ash. Then ME 2 came out and I was hurt by how Ash totally dumped me, so even when playing I looked for someone else to romance. It was then that I discovered Jack, and I have romanced Jack (playing as default appearance of John Shepard) ever since. Playing as FemShep.... I tried Kaiden's romance and I enjoyed it. For my FemShep playthrough it's either Kaiden or Traynor....and 9 x out of 10, I romance Traynor. But mostly I play as John and romance Jack. I see Liara as a really, really close friend but nothing more. Yes, in my current playthrough I have romanced Ashley, and am now playing LE2. I too now consider Liara as just a close friend. Let me ask you a question. You say that if I romanced Ash in LE1 she will dump me? So she won't get mad if I go after Miranda or Jack in LE3?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 5, 2022 22:52:52 GMT
When I first played Mass Effect 1 for the very first, I romanced Liara but the more I played the more I was kinda turned off by her shameless flaunting and throwing herself at you especially in 1. So I turned to romancing Ash. Then ME 2 came out and I was hurt by how Ash totally dumped me, so even when playing I looked for someone else to romance. It was then that I discovered Jack, and I have romanced Jack (playing as default appearance of John Shepard) ever since. Playing as FemShep.... I tried Kaiden's romance and I enjoyed it. For my FemShep playthrough it's either Kaiden or Traynor....and 9 x out of 10, I romance Traynor. But mostly I play as John and romance Jack. I see Liara as a really, really close friend but nothing more. Yes, in my current playthrough I have romanced Ashley, and am now playing LE2. I too now consider Liara as just a close friend. Let me ask you a question. You say that if I romanced Ash in LE1 she will dump me? So she won't get mad if I go after Miranda or Jack in LE3? She does get mad if you do that.
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Post by talyn82 on Feb 5, 2022 23:19:20 GMT
Yes, in my current playthrough I have romanced Ashley, and am now playing LE2. I too now consider Liara as just a close friend. Let me ask you a question. You say that if I romanced Ash in LE1 she will dump me? So she won't get mad if I go after Miranda or Jack in LE3? She does get mad if you do that. Okay, no problem. My Shep will remain faithful.
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