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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 19, 2023 13:55:23 GMT
It being Mythal, perhaps a scene depicting Mythal's death, with her daughter comforting her in her final moment, would make the pic of the dread wolf next to it make more sense. Its showing a sequence of events -- Mythal's murder and Solas destroying Arlathan-- but in a light sympathetic to Andruil. That wall says: "Mythal died and then the mad, slavering Dread Wolf destroyed everything. Also, I was totally comforting mother in her final moments, see?" The depiction of Solas in the next wall as a googly eyed wolf instead of a man tells me the painter was disapproving of the actions in that panel, but sympathetic to those depicted in the first panel b/c they are shown as actual people. It definitely would suggest the Dread Wolf that the Evanuris warned against. However, I do find it a puzzle that he is always depicted as a wolf, even when in his guardian role alongside Mythal or outside her sanctuary. The Executor in TN also referred to him as "the Wolf" and I think that was deliberate on the part of PW because the Executors do have a connection to that time and call him by the title he was known by before the "Dread" part was added. As for the other two figures, you may be right and it does depict the moment of Mythal's death, with Andruil comforting her. It would make sense to find an image of Andruil here in her domain and then her priesthood having shown the Dread Wolf destroying Arlathan, because they knew he was responsible. Also, most of what the Dalish known about the gods comes to them from their ancestors who were living in Arlathan Forest before being taken by Tevinter, so supporters of the Evanuris and Andruil in particular. Thus, it is hardly surprising they remembered Fen'Harel in a totally negative way. The only problem with this hypothesis is why didn't they remember that Mythal was killed before the imprisonment of the gods? Also, is that a face below the bottom figure's left shoulder, kind of behind her back? Or just a weird optical illusion??? I've wondered about that too, so I'm glad it isn't just me who can see it. It did make me wonder if it had some relationship to the idol, which has figures surrounding the main one, in which case that probably does point to Mythal, given Solas' attitude towards that figure.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Apr 19, 2023 19:42:53 GMT
We would usually get a preview today
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Post by dayze on Apr 19, 2023 19:53:32 GMT
The biggest counter to this is the matching of the two helmets with the DA Day teaser last year does indicate that this is going to be one of the Evanuris still active which...wouldn't be Mythal.
Otherwise there is a certain poetic nature to your theory. Could be one of those situations where the figure is trying to comfort the other in death or something. Hmm wouldn't it be amazing if Mythal had been corrupted somehow and the Evanuris killed her out of self defense? Ugh part of the problem of this theories just get spit balled from other theories lol. Or would it? There is that wisp she sent through the eluvian. And the possibility that Solas may have absorbed more than he realized when he took her power. I mean, thinking about it, he willingly took in her essence that she seemed to be freely giving and that sounds worryingly like what she told Morrigan the ritual to hop bodies required. She said the soul had to be willingly taken, not knowingly.
I totally expect there to be SOME twist to Solas' version of events like that. I don't think the Evanuris will ALL turn out to be innocent lambs, but I do completely expect at least one to have been innocent and Solas unknowingly threw the baby out with the bath water when he imprisoned them all. It'd be just his luck, honestly. He's super smart, but he always miscalculates something in his big plans. It's practically a theme.
With this particular mural I think its just self-serving propaganda, though. I don't think Andruil is the innocent one in the group, if there is one. But who knows. There's also the spirit from the well of sorrows and the possibility of an extra amulet-Flemeth running around from DA2. In regards to time manipulation, one of the Forgotten Ones is named "Anaris" which translates to "years" or something like that supposedly. As for The Evanuris, it's hard to say where they are on the moral spectrum....so horrible that Solas was willing to imprison them for eternity but apparently not so horrible as the current ruling class of mortals in The Qun, Fereldan, Tevinter and elsewhere. Since looking at the current status of the world effectively prompts Solas to think "Okay may be the Evanuris weren't so bad after all....".
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 19, 2023 19:55:43 GMT
As for the other two figures, you may be right and it does depict the moment of Mythal's death, with Andruil comforting her. It would make sense to find an image of Andruil here in her domain and then her priesthood having shown the Dread Wolf destroying Arlathan, because they knew he was responsible. Also, most of what the Dalish known about the gods comes to them from their ancestors who were living in Arlathan Forest before being taken by Tevinter, so supporters of the Evanuris and Andruil in particular. Thus, it is hardly surprising they remembered Fen'Harel in a totally negative way. The only problem with this hypothesis is why didn't they remember that Mythal was killed before the imprisonment of the gods?
More support its maybe the "Mythal takes away knowledge fo the void" moment instead, perhaps? I think that story being more openly known makes sense. And then, like you said, maybe the Dread Wolf image was added later, so they aren't connected directly.
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Post by dayze on Apr 19, 2023 19:58:56 GMT
Would anyone want to continue working with/for the Inquisition if they realise that it's shadow architect was the Dread Wolf? How can you rely or trust their competency or capability if they completely missed their true enemy for his dupe/proxy? I wouldn't be surprised if we start with an Inquisition remnant/cell then break away from them when we realise how much they indirectly aided and abetted Solas, our principal enemy. Who would want to work with the inquisition? Fading Noble houses, up and comers.....Friends of Red Jenny? Another way to look at it for the powers-that-be, where do all the people and resources go after The Inquisition gets dismantled? Not necessarily towards them, means you got soldiers, gear, horses all getting sold off or hired by people who didn't have access to that kind of stuff or those who can't get jobs going on to be bandits or join the elves in their revolution that seems to be brewing.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 19, 2023 19:59:28 GMT
In regards to time manipulation, one of the Forgotten Ones is named "Anaris" which translates to "years" or something like that supposedly. As for The Evanuris, it's hard to say where they are on the moral spectrum....so horrible that Solas was willing to imprison them for eternity but apparently not so horrible as the current ruling class of mortals in The Qun, Fereldan, Tevinter and elsewhere. Since looking at the current status of the world effectively prompts Solas to think "Okay may be the Evanuris weren't so bad after all....". I don't get the impression Solas considers the Evanuris better than current leaders at all. He hasn't said they're not so bad. He said he had a plan to off them (or at least "deal with" them) once he went through with tearing down the veil. Implies he doesn't want them back in any kind of power.
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 19, 2023 21:56:34 GMT
He said he had a plan to off them (or at least "deal with" them). The latter, not the former. “The first of my people do not die so easily.” Also, I’m pretty sure that Solas saying he had plans to deal with the Evanuris is shorthand for “I’d figure something out.”
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 19, 2023 22:23:10 GMT
He said he had a plan to off them (or at least "deal with" them). The latter, not the former. “The first of my people do not die so easily.” Also, I’m pretty sure that Solas saying he had plans to deal with the Evanuris is shorthand for “I’d figure something out.” Same. lol But my point was, he wasn't embracing their reemergence. He wasn't bringing them back. If everything went according to plan, he'd keep them fettered, if not dead outright.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2023 8:02:41 GMT
More support its maybe the "Mythal takes away knowledge fo the void" moment instead, perhaps? I think that story being more openly known makes sense. And then, like you said, maybe the Dread Wolf image was added later, so they aren't connected directly. It is the selective memory loss that puzzles me. They remember Fen'Harel was responsible for the loss of the gods and even a possible way he was able to trick them into his trap, yet totally forget such an important event as the death of Mythal. I've assumed it must have something to do with the Veil, so people remember Fen'Harel's actions because they lived through the consequences and we know from the Vir'Dithara that at least some people were aware that he was responsible. However, their memories were wiped/clouded at the moment the Veil was created, so everything else that happened before then was forgotten, which would explain why they don't associate the vallaslin with markings of ownership, although this could be just Solas' interpretation of marks of allegiance to the gods as he regards their followers as mindless slaves to the regime. Still, it is possible that he intended for the Veil to do this because, if we go by the comic series by DG, apparently it is possible to create a machine that can wipe the minds of every living person in Thedas so they think the Qun and the Chant of Light never existed and the Tevinter Imperium is the only reality. Now I assume that Titus didn't create this device himself because it seems way beyond any knowledge to be found in Tevinter but rather did so from knowledge he translated from ancient texts, just as presumably Danarius did with the sarcophagus. This being the case, that would suggest such knowledge came from the ancient elves and thus Solas would be aware of it. At the very least, the memory fog was caused in much the same way as tranquility seems to work on the mind of the person, so their former life seems detached from their present situation and over time becomes harder to remember. Whilst in DAO the codex by a tranquil seemed to suggest they could remember, with Karl there seemed an almost instantaneous memory loss when tranquility was restored to him, or why would he be so puzzled at the others' reaction? If Solas wanted the elves to be free not only of the gods but any memory of the gods that might recreate their regime, may be that was an intended outcome of the Veil. However, it only partially worked, leaving their memory fragmented. As for the Temple in The Missing, it looks as though it was bricked up at some point so people wouldn't remember the events depicted. Was that by the priesthood of Andruil or followers of the Dread Wolf or someone else entirely?
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2023 8:12:09 GMT
There's also the spirit from the well of sorrows and the possibility of an extra amulet-Flemeth running around from DA2. I think the writers were hoping we would forget about that paradox if we didn't kill Flemeth in DA2. However, the spirit in the Well of Sorrows was definitely something to be taken into consideration. Not only did it have the power to confront Corypheus and prevent his passage, it then disappeared into the eluvian simultaneously destroying it (at least that is how I understood the scene). So, there may be any number of "aspects of Flemeth/Mythal" floating around in the Crossroads/Fade/World. After all, there are meant to be at least two other daughters across Thedas, other than Morrigan and Yavana (who may also not be permanently dead).
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Post by colfoley on Apr 20, 2023 8:13:39 GMT
More support its maybe the "Mythal takes away knowledge fo the void" moment instead, perhaps? I think that story being more openly known makes sense. And then, like you said, maybe the Dread Wolf image was added later, so they aren't connected directly. It is the selective memory loss that puzzles me. They remember Fen'Harel was responsible for the loss of the gods and even a possible way he was able to trick them into his trap, yet totally forget such an important event as the death of Mythal. I've assumed it must have something to do with the Veil, so people remember Fen'Harel's actions because they lived through the consequences and we know from the Vir'Dithara that at least some people were aware that he was responsible. However, their memories were wiped/clouded at the moment the Veil was created, so everything else that happened before then was forgotten, which would explain why they don't associate the vallaslin with markings of ownership, although this could be just Solas' interpretation of marks of allegiance to the gods as he regards their followers as mindless slaves to the regime. Still, it is possible that he intended for the Veil to do this because, if we go by the comic series by DG, apparently it is possible to create a machine that can wipe the minds of every living person in Thedas so they think the Qun and the Chant of Light never existed and the Tevinter Imperium is the only reality. Now I assume that Titus didn't create this device himself because it seems way beyond any knowledge to be found in Tevinter but rather did so from knowledge he translated from ancient texts, just as presumably Danarius did with the sarcophagus. This being the case, that would suggest such knowledge came from the ancient elves and thus Solas would be aware of it. At the very least, the memory fog was caused in much the same way as tranquility seems to work on the mind of the person, so their former life seems detached from their present situation and over time becomes harder to remember. Whilst in DAO the codex by a tranquil seemed to suggest they could remember, with Karl there seemed an almost instantaneous memory loss when tranquility was restored to him, or why would he be so puzzled at the others' reaction? If Solas wanted the elves to be free not only of the gods but any memory of the gods that might recreate their regime, may be that was an intended outcome of the Veil. However, it only partially worked, leaving their memory fragmented. As for the Temple in The Missing, it looks as though it was bricked up at some point so people wouldn't remember the events depicted. Was that by the priesthood of Andruil or followers of the Dread Wolf or someone else entirely? Ocum's razor would sweem to be a thing. After all the Dread Wolf stuff is directly felt by the modern day people of Thedas and the Dalish so they would have direct legends related to that...as well as everything else according to the Dalish.
Which the Dalish even admits that most of the knowledge of their previous Empires have been lost to them and each clan tends to have their own stories and their own bits of lore they have been able to recover. Thus we haven't gotten information on Mythal's murder but that dosen't mean its not out there somewhere nor in the hands of some other Dalish clan.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2023 10:46:33 GMT
Thus we haven't gotten information on Mythal's murder but that dosen't mean its not out there somewhere nor in the hands of some other Dalish clan. Look I know Solas claims the Dalish have been growing apart down the years but their core beliefs came from an initial group of priests and nobles that fled the Dales after their defeat by Orlais, plus they have regular gatherings to update each other about new discoveries. I imagined the Arlathven participated in by Inquisitor Lavellan after the disclosures in ToM and Trespasser would have been very lively. Nevertheless, I think it highly unlikely that there is a genuine Dalish clan out there prior to this that knew of Mythal's murder and yet hadn't revealed it to the rest. They certainly couldn't have discovered it in the Arbor Wilds since the sentinels would have attacked them like any other intruders and in fact there was a codex written by a Tevinter scholar that confirms this: For once, look to the elves for guidance. The Dalish shun the Arbor Wilds. When the people who would start a war over a single crumbling wall ignore a large elven ruin to the south, it bodes disaster. There is beauty and curiosity in the forest, such as trees that rise tall as towers, but those who travel too deep into them never return.Now that doesn't mean there might not be other elves out there that know the truth. There was that strange group of elves mentioned in the Last Court that the person took to be Dalish, because of the vallaslin, but didn't behave like Dalish and whose vallaslin was red. It is entirely possible they were modern elves rather than an ancient elven enclave but descended from the worshipers of the Forgotten Ones that were found in the Dales but driven out by the rest. For all we know they might have had a similar story to Solas but since no one was able to consult with them, we shall likely never know. Also, the elven folk tale about a "trickster warrior who fought against tyrants" must have come from some group in the Dales since the human scholars thought elements of it might have influenced their oral tradition contained in the Canticle of Shartan I'm also not entirely convinced by Strife and his "Dalish" clan. There were enough hints in the artwork accompanying their short story that they may have links to the Executors or, even if the clan is genuine, Strife was always more than a simple city elf on the run. He did seem pro-Andruil but beyond that little was revealed about their rest of his/their beliefs. Now that is something that we likely shall get to know more about next game.
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Apr 20, 2023 15:57:53 GMT
Amazon just notified me that digital copies of the last ish will now drop on May 10th.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 26, 2023 23:44:14 GMT
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Apr 30, 2023 20:52:28 GMT
It appears there were preview pages on google books that are no longer available. However, they still pop up when you google the upcoming title - just very, very tiny and pixilated. It appears they meet up with their informant in the first couple of pages. I can’t tell if it’s the woman on the front cover or not, but it appears to be a male.
I’m going to see if I can find the actual preview someplace else, I find it unlikely though. :/
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Post by Solas on Apr 30, 2023 21:43:15 GMT
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Post by eaglepursuit on Apr 30, 2023 22:14:24 GMT
It definitely looks like they meet with the woman with the hat. And then they all go into another place and scare up a couple of people wearing rags. One of them is a shirtless guy. Harding takes a shot (at him?), but something else falls on him from the ceiling. Then they talk to the guy. He might be an elf. He has auburn hair.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Apr 30, 2023 22:46:14 GMT
Welp Kind of a deflated ending. I’m happy to see that Varric and Harding came to the same conclusion the Inquisitor did 10 years prior - that they need to find someone Solas doesn’t know. With that conclusion, along with Varric and Harding having traveled and met various people from various factions, I’m leaning into faction-based origin stories even more. Overall I’m not sure how I feel about this comic series, but in retrospect I guess I expected too much. Neve seems really cool though! I’m excited to know her more. Also… strange that I was able to purchase the comic even though it comes out May 10th.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 30, 2023 23:09:32 GMT
Welp Kind of a deflated ending. I’m happy to see that Varric and Harding came to the same conclusion the Inquisitor did 10 years prior - that they need to find someone Solas doesn’t know. With that conclusion, along with Varric and Harding having traveled and met various people from various factions, I’m leaning into faction-based origin stories even more. Overall I’m not sure how I feel about this comic series, but in retrospect I guess I expected too much. Neve seems really cool though! I’m excited to know her more. Also… strange that I was able to purchase the comic even though it comes out May 10th. that's...interesting. about the being able to read it now.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Apr 30, 2023 23:12:33 GMT
Yeah. Big oops
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Post by eaglepursuit on Apr 30, 2023 23:34:49 GMT
This isn't the first time Apple has screwed someone over by releasing something too soon. It's happened multiple times to episodes of Disney Channel shows.
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Post by Iddy on May 1, 2023 0:05:10 GMT
I got a peek into the preview. That elf is tragically naive if he thinks that Solas sees him as "his kin".
Even if Solas didn't openly ask for a favor in return, I still believe Varric was right: That altruistic act had a purpose. If anything, he must've done it to cause a big impression and attract more modern elves to use as cannon fodder.
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Post by necrowaif on May 1, 2023 1:07:47 GMT
A couple of notes regarding Varric’s contact and this supposed anti-slavery group: If you don’t recall who Neve Gallus is, she was the protagonist of Streets of Minrathous.
Also, while I’m not pro-slavery, I almost want to exterminate the Shadow Dragons solely on the basis of how lame that name is.
Seriously, they sound like the bad guys from some 1980s action movie about ninjas.
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Post by colfoley on May 1, 2023 1:17:19 GMT
So the preview isn't big enough for me to read so once more going to have to rely on everyone else to spoil me as per usual as the time comes. Though ironically I am tempted to get the omnibus when it comes out in September.
That said to I am once more getting major hmm vibes from the fact they are releasing the thing early, even in some markets and some websites, or whatever. Now unless someone issues a retraction/ appology and then an updated version (which I doubt) this means the comic on Dark Horse's end was fully ready to go but it was on BioWare's end that they asked them to delay...till right around their next stock report... HMM.
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Post by colfoley on May 1, 2023 1:23:49 GMT
A couple of notes regarding Varric’s contact and this supposed anti-slavery group: If you don’t recall who Neve Gallus is, she was the protagonist of Streets of Minrathous.
Also, while I’m not pro-slavery, I almost want to exterminate the Shadow Dragons solely on the basis of how lame that name is.
Seriously, they sound like the bad guys from some 1980s action movie about ninjas. Shadow Dragons?
Interesting because they did have that short story with 'the Viper' released on one of the DA days.
So was the Viper the original name or just a name for one of the group in particular? Did they change the name from Viper to Shadow Dragons?
And on the face of it as for the name itself yeah its a litttlllleee on the silly side but given that A this group is a Shadowy Organization operating from the shadows and B. Tevinter's obssession with Dragons and how well they are known for it (Dragons/ Serpents being on the flag) it does make at least some in universe sense. Which given Tevinter's association with Dragons there might end up being a lot of symbolic meaning in universe for the group going by that name. Like the fact that they are connecting themselves so deliberatley to something from Tevinter's past suggests that they are out to redeam/ restore the Imperium and not tear it down and that they believe that slavery is contrary to Tevinter values.
Maybe.
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