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Post by gervaise21 on May 2, 2023 10:41:55 GMT
I cannot take the name Shadow Dragons seriously. It sounds like the name of a little league team, not an organization like theirs. It is a tad disappointing the writing team couldn't come up with something a bit more inventive but out of the 4 factions showcased I think they show the most promise. It is curious that they didn't give them a Latin influenced name as they usually do for groups within Tevinter but may be that is deliberate on the part of the group in order to distance themselves from the ruling class and ensure that no matter what background their followers are from, they can understand the name. I've also suggested a possibility for the name on the Crazy Theory thread but it is equally possible it just relates to the fact that they are natives of Tevinter and work from the shadows. It is curious they didn't give them a more serpentine name considering their leader in the short story is the Viper, or perhaps he isn't their leader, just their most notorious member among the Venatori. Also, at present, I'd be inclined to trust them more than the Veil Jumpers because even if the latter are against Solas, I think they may have a connection with the Executors.
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Post by cribbian on May 2, 2023 12:49:49 GMT
They could've at least have the name in latin. Umbra Dracones doesn't sound as silly. Also, a lot of people are probably gonna think about theses guys when they hear the name:
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Post by Heimdall on May 2, 2023 13:35:05 GMT
I cannot take the name Shadow Dragons seriously. It sounds like the name of a little league team, not an organization like theirs. “Veil Jumpers” felt similarly out of place to me, though Shadow Dragons is worse. It seems like something 13 year old me would have named them.
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Post by eaglepursuit on May 2, 2023 14:11:58 GMT
Someone commented that it sounds like a group of villains from a 1980s martial arts movie, and I think that is spot on. It's just so campy.
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Post by Iddy on May 2, 2023 14:26:54 GMT
I cannot take the name Shadow Dragons seriously. It sounds like the name of a little league team, not an organization like theirs. “Veil Jumpers” felt similarly out of place to me, though Shadow Dragons is worse. It seems like something 13 year old me would have named them. Veil Jumpers seems to be simply descriptive, like... Spear Warriors. It is not bad.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 2, 2023 14:39:50 GMT
“Veil Jumpers” felt similarly out of place to me, though Shadow Dragons is worse. It seems like something 13 year old me would have named them. Veil Jumpers seems to be simply descriptive, like... Spear Warriors. It is not bad. I don't know; I'm tempted to say it is another example of them simplifying the content for younger players, much as they changed the name of Qarinus to Ventus because people might get the city confused with the Qunari (I still don't know why they didn't just change the spelling to Karinus). The problem with the Veil Jumpers is that I'm still not clear exactly who they are or what they do that is different from, say, a Rift Mage or what Fenris could do with his tattoos. They could've at least have the name in latin. Umbra Dracones doesn't sound as silly. It would fit with all previous names linked with Tevinter and they could then be followers of the Via Umbra, the Way of Shadow, which also sounds much cooler in Latin. Strangely enough they already introduced the concept of a different path followed by Dalish assassins called the Vir Banal'ras, the Way of Shadows, so you would think they would have come up with something original for this new group, even if some of them are assassins. If the explanation in game is going to be they have rejected the language of the Altus, then why are they "Dragons" at all?
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Post by eaglepursuit on May 2, 2023 15:05:41 GMT
I don't mind Veil Jumpers that much, but I think it should have been an Elven name, since they seem to have a lot of Dalish cooperation and participation.
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Post by Reznore on May 2, 2023 15:09:26 GMT
Don't plan on reading the comics, but ...I wished they dropped the "find someone Solas doesn't know". Never played a subtle pc in my life, and Solas can walk the fade, and take a peek at folks dreams. So unless we're stuck playing a very discreet dwarf, and we won't ...the whole set up is ridiculous. I know it's all about finding excuse why the Inquisitor can't come back but erf. I don't care about new factions names, I'm mostly worried about having something silly like Red Templars or "Make Tevinter Great Again" Venatori. The dwarven merchant guild/carta, wardens, Antivan Crows were all fairly good factions. I'm worried the new factions are going to be gimmicks to fill some new gameplay ideas.
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Post by necrowaif on May 2, 2023 15:12:40 GMT
The issue I have with Veil Jumpers is that it’s a (bad) pun for the sake of a pun and it only vaguely alludes to their purpose or tactics. If the group was formed to get a handle on the magical chaos afflicting Arlathan, why not choose a name that suggests restoration? It’s like how in Tevinter Nights, one of the (worst) stories was called “Murder by Death Mages.” Now, Murder by Death is a somewhat famous parody of Agatha Christie-style murder mysteries, but the TN story itself is just a straight mystery with zero comedic elements. The title clashes with the tone of the story, and while that’s a minor issue, it’s still the first step on the path riddled with bad characterization and nonsensical story elements that led to ultimately ruining my suspension of disbelief. And if these are the creative choices being made now, then I have to wonder about how the final product will come out. Don't plan on reading the comics, but ...I wished they dropped the "find someone Solas doesn't know". Never played a subtle pc in my life, and Solas can walk the fade, and take a peek at folks dreams. So unless we're stuck playing a very discreet dwarf, and we won't ...the whole set up is ridiculous But he needs to know who he’s looking for. Solas can’t just continually scan the Fade for potential enemies. “Ah-ha, found someone who opposes the Dread Wolf! No, wait, she just hates bread bowls. Well, better make her a statue anyway.”
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Post by Reznore on May 2, 2023 15:50:34 GMT
But he needs to know who he’s looking for. Solas can’t just continually scan the Fade for potential enemies. “Ah-ha, found someone who opposes the Dread Wolf! No, wait, she just hates bread bowls. Well, better make her a statue anyway.” Solas is looking for that person who goes around town with a super crew, asking about Solas, and what he is up to.
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Post by necrowaif on May 2, 2023 16:39:30 GMT
Well sure, if you approach the subject of stopping Solas like a tourist asking for directions, then you’ll stick out. I assume we won’t be.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on May 2, 2023 16:57:01 GMT
Someone commented that it sounds like a group of villains from a 1980s martial arts movie, and I think that is spot on. It's just so campy. That was my exact thought too!
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Post by RelevantRevenant on May 2, 2023 17:47:25 GMT
Shadow Dragons just made me think of the Shadow Broker...
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Post by gervaise21 on May 2, 2023 18:22:18 GMT
I don't mind Veil Jumpers that much, but I think it should have been an Elven name, since they seem to have a lot of Dalish cooperation and participation. Are you sure about that? I'm not entirely convinced they are true Dalish but rather another group of elves passing themselves off as Dalish, just as I don't believe Strife was ever an elf who originated in the alienage of Starkhaven, although it could be true that he aggravated the authorities there and had to flee as a result. I'd also be interested to know where the humans in their group came from. The fact they call themselves Veil Jumpers rather than an elven name also seems to point to a non-Dalish origin for the group. The Dalish tend to give themselves elven names, although they may translate it for the benefit of outsiders who do not know the language. So, a group of Dalish would have said to Varric "we are ........, or Veil Jumpers in common tongue".
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Post by gervaise21 on May 2, 2023 18:30:42 GMT
I don't care about new factions names, I'm mostly worried about having something silly like Red Templars or "Make Tevinter Great Again" Venatori. I thought the downfall of Corypheus should have been the death of this cult too but apparently they are real fanatics who don't give up easily. As for any Red Templars turning up, well technically they should just be incorporated into what remains of the Venatori given the latter are now treating red lyrium like candy and anything revealed in the Netflix series was said to be separate from the plot in the games. So, we will likely encounter red lyrium infused warriors that had been force fed by the Venatori to make them more effective rather than actual southern Templars who imbibed the stuff, as by now the latter should have been wholly subsumed by the substance.
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Post by ellanathehamster on May 2, 2023 18:32:40 GMT
To those, who read the 4th issue: Does Solas appear in the end? What is the conclusion?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 2, 2023 18:37:27 GMT
Don't plan on reading the comics, but ...I wished they dropped the "find someone Solas doesn't know". Never played a subtle pc in my life, and Solas can walk the fade, and take a peek at folks dreams. So unless we're stuck playing a very discreet dwarf, and we won't ...the whole set up is ridiculous. It could be someone finds an artifact that can shield the wearer from scrutiny via the Fade or one of the companions has the skills to do this. Could that be where the Veil Jumpers come in? An amulet from the archives in Minrathous would fit the bill though and considering that in the past the Dreamer mages could Fade walk in order to seek out their enemies and kill them, it would make sense that someone would have tried to come up with an item to counter this. If Alexius could make an amulet that allowed time travel, I would think a Fade Shield amulet would be a piece of cake.
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Post by eaglepursuit on May 2, 2023 18:45:51 GMT
I don't mind Veil Jumpers that much, but I think it should have been an Elven name, since they seem to have a lot of Dalish cooperation and participation. Are you sure about that? I'm not entirely convinced they are true Dalish but rather another group of elves passing themselves off as Dalish, just as I don't believe Strife was ever an elf who originated in the alienage of Starkhaven, although it could be true that he aggravated the authorities there and had to flee as a result. I'd also be interested to know where the humans in their group came from. The fact they call themselves Veil Jumpers rather than an elven name also seems to point to a non-Dalish origin for the group. The Dalish tend to give themselves elven names, although they may translate it for the benefit of outsiders who do not know the language. So, a group of Dalish would have said to Varric "we are ........, or Veil Jumpers in common tongue". No matter his origins, Strife is hanging around with the Dalish as of his last story, so anything he is involved in, I'd construe tacit Dalish involvement. The Veil Jumpers are certainly not entirely Dalish, as we have seen a human in their midst. But my gut instinct is that the Dalish are major contributors to them, in training, personnel, and support. The Dalish would also be major beneficiaries of the Veil Jumpers' effort to navigate and fix the weirdness in Arlathan. They also don't seem like a human-led organization. The typical human solution to a problem like Arlathan would be to send in Templars and burn it down.
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Post by colfoley on May 2, 2023 20:44:26 GMT
Shadow Dragons is probably one of the better names we've heard of late. The Veil Jumpers don't make a lot of sense in context.
Also I draw attention to Antivan Crow.
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Post by necrowaif on May 2, 2023 21:03:49 GMT
But crows at least have an association with death - a group of crows is literally called a murder - and it does roll off the tongue, especially with an Antivan accent.
Sten: Why do you call yourselves "Crows"? Crows are scavengers, not killers. Zevran: I heard that at one time they considered calling us the Kestrels. But you know. It didn't sing. It didn't dance.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 3, 2023 7:01:10 GMT
Sten: Why do you call yourselves "Crows"? Crows are scavengers, not killers. Zevran: I heard that at one time they considered calling us the Kestrels. But you know. It didn't sing. It didn't dance. Wow. Even back in Origin's days, the writers' room was angling for a musical...
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Post by gervaise21 on May 3, 2023 8:31:17 GMT
No matter his origins, Strife is hanging around with the Dalish as of his last story, so anything he is involved in, I'd construe tacit Dalish involvement. There are a lot of inconsistencies in the history of Strife and his "Dalish" clan right back as far as Tevinter Nights. Now it wouldn't surprise me if they had decided to ignore previous information but it would be nice if they could give a reason for it, although the assertion in DAI by Solas of all people that the Dalish clans are growing apart over the years (how does he know?) may be considered sufficient by the writing team. We had been told previously that whilst there were Dalish clans as far north as Rivain, they tended to steer clear of Tevinter and regions adjoining there for obvious reasons. I assumed that included Arlathan Forest because otherwise it would seem the logical place for the Dalish to head after the fall of the Dales. However, I will concede that at least some Dalish clans were heading in that direction more recently, as one of them fell foul of Tevinter soldiers in An Old Crow's Tricks. I am more curious about Strife's clan though. They were interested enough in Qunari affairs to send a small team to try discover what their plans were after Ventus. I still find it hard to believe that the Antaam simply left such information around unguarded for anyone to view but it turns out that apparently it may not have been valid as their next move was said to be Rivain, yet so far as I am aware the Antaam haven't invaded there but Antiva. Anyway, this was something Strife thought important enough to warn the clans about. Now we had been told previously there were Dalish clans in Rivain, so possibly it was these clans he meant but I formed the impression there was a gathering of them much closer to Arlathan Forest on the eastern side. If they are genuine Dalish, why did the clans suddenly start heading north? Could it be there was some sort of sign that all the Keepers knew about that would indicate an imminent return of the gods? Or was it just agents of Fen'Harel who urged them to do this? Then, in the short story Ruins of Reality, it was revealed that Strife's clan had a detailed map of the forest. How was that possible? Surely any maps drawn up in ancient times would have been lost in the conquest by Tevinter. So, presumably they had been up there long enough to make a map, except it is said to be "his own time-worn map". We learn that they are the Morlyn clan, who had a journal that was a relic of the clan handed down over generations but had suddenly started rewriting itself. When this happened, the Keeper gave it to Strife. Now why would the Keeper, who is normally the acknowledged expert on lore in the clan, give the ancient artifact to a city elf to decipher? Presumably because he had already shown himself to be capable of deciphering ancient writings (after all why would an ancient magical book use anything other than elvish?). What was odd about the recent comic series is that in Ruins of Reality, it was the recovery of the crystal halla that caused the strange phenomenon to stop. So, had they resumed for some other reason or did that story take place after the comic series in the time line? Whatever the case, even if the Morlyn Clan are genuine Dalish, I do not believe that Strife is a modern city elf. More likely he is another ancient elf, may be a Fen'Harel agent but possibly from another group entirely that is in opposition to him. People have noted the similarities in the symbols on his clothing in the short story and those of the Executors. In DAI the Executors seemed to indicate they had become active in the affairs of Thedas in response to the threat of the Breach. If, like the Qunari, they discovered agents of Fen'Harel were active in Thedas, that could explain their continued presence. The Executor in Tevinter Nights seemed to think that the Qunari would be wary of them, suggesting they have mutual knowledge of one another. Solas warned of them as being dangerous, which may seem rich coming from him but suggests they are a genuine threat to him at least. The Executors had human and likely elven agents as well as their own masked operatives. I think they do have knowledge of ancient magic and links to the ancient elves, even if it is that "Those Across the Sea" are survivors of Ghilan'nain's monster experiments. Thus, they would likely want to examine and control the strange magic in Arlathan Forest. Hence, there being humans working with the elves there under the leadership of Strife and the non-elven name of Veil Jumpers.
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Post by necrowaif on May 3, 2023 18:01:28 GMT
For what it's worth, Impulse Gamer has a preview of Issue #4. I'm still waiting until May 10 to buy the issue digitally from Dark Horse. www.impulsegamer.com/dragon-age-the-missing-4-preview-darkhorse-dragonage-george_mann-alvaroming/Yeah, see, this preview really highlights a couple of major problems with The Missing.
First off, there’s a clear problem of bad characterization. In Issue 1, Varric was making the case that Harding could be taken advantage of by Solas by giving him an opening. And yet here, Varric's the one advocating for talking to Solas and giving him another chance while Harding is all gung-ho for a lethal solution.
In a better series, that would be indicative of character development, but no such development has occurred; they've simply flipped positions for no reason.
Secondly, there's a continuity error when Varric refers to dead darkspawn in the Deep Roads as an indicator that the Venatori have been protecting them. The only darkspawn they encountered in Issue 1 was the ogre, which was very much alive; the mysterious assassin killed a pair of deepstalkers, not darkspawn.
Now, either the writer (George Mann) believes that deepstalkers are darkspawn, or this is a case of the writer not being in communication with the multiple artists working on this comic and making sure they follow his script.
I'm inclined to believe the latter, which is also why we have sylvans being referred to as varterrals and mountain lions being called leopards.
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Post by eaglepursuit on May 3, 2023 18:47:15 GMT
For what it's worth, Impulse Gamer has a preview of Issue #4. I'm still waiting until May 10 to buy the issue digitally from Dark Horse. www.impulsegamer.com/dragon-age-the-missing-4-preview-darkhorse-dragonage-george_mann-alvaroming/Yeah, see, this preview really highlights the writing problems as a whole with The Missing. In Issue 1, Varric was making the case that Harding could be taken advantage of by Solas by giving him an opening. And yet here, Varric's the one advocating for talking to Solas and giving him another chance.
In a better series, that would be indicative of character development, but no such development has occurred; they've simply flipped positions for no reason.
Also, there's a continuity error when Varric refers to dead darkspawn in the Deep Roads as an indicator that the Venatori have been protecting them. The only darkspawn they encountered in Issue 1 was the ogre, which was very much alive; the mysterious assassin killed a pair of deepstalkers, not darkspawn.
Now, either the writer George Mann believes that deepstalkers are darkspawn, or this is a case of the writer not being in communication with the multiple artists working on this comic and making sure they follow his script. I'm inclined to believe the latter, which is also why we have sylvans being referred to as varterrals and mountain lions being called leopards. Maybe they delayed it to fix the discontinuity in Varric's outlook on dealing with Solas. If that's the case, then perhaps these previews are out of date and it will be fixed in the release edition.
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Post by Reznore on May 4, 2023 7:44:17 GMT
It could be someone finds an artifact that can shield the wearer from scrutiny via the Fade or one of the companions has the skills to do this. Could that be where the Veil Jumpers come in? An amulet from the archives in Minrathous would fit the bill though and considering that in the past the Dreamer mages could Fade walk in order to seek out their enemies and kill them, it would make sense that someone would have tried to come up with an item to counter this. If Alexius could make an amulet that allowed time travel, I would think a Fade Shield amulet would be a piece of cake. Sure, but the whole premise is eh. We don't know how to defeat Solas, we don't know what's his plan B for the veil is. Infiltrating Solas spy/minions network is a must. I doubt we're doing that with the new player character for gameplay reasons. There's no surprise attack on Solas, he knows the old Inquisition is after him, the Quanri are after him and reading he's freeing slaves the magisters are probably planning to invite him over for tea. I would change the narrative to let's find someone Solas doesn't know to let's find folks who have the potential skillset to stop him. Like the Veil Jumpers might have some knowledge that would give us an edge. Having someone who know how to counter the Stone Glare is a must. The whole "someone Solas doesn't know" is just the devs saying "guys you aren't playing the Inquisitor"
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