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Post by colfoley on May 17, 2023 3:11:39 GMT
Sure but that does ignore a good deal of the hypotheticals. Namely the ones where the Venatori stumble onto or get his power because he is too weak to stop them and then become super powerful themselves which is a much greater threat and again adds enough nuance where one might or might not choose to go after Solas. Now even with these choices I would probably still go after Solas by I certainly understand Varric's motivations now which is not as clear cut as some would make it out to be. And the Terminus Systems example is not exactly 1 to 1. First of all the Terminus System Pirates would likely not have the ability or technical know how, certainly after the war, to utilize Reaper tech to their own advantage. They lack the power or expertise. Given the Venatori's interests and their magical abilities they likely would be able to with Solas. 2. Solas is not the Reapers per se. Yes their plans may be more or less the same in its end objectives, maybe, but their tactics are entirely different. The Reapers were portrayed as a very open force of nature type nemesis which just could steam roll over their opposition openly because of all the advantages they had and even had the ability to brainwash other people to serve them to enhance their overall capabilities not neccessarily because they had to. The Reapers are more apprepro to the Qunari, if BioWare continues to hold up to their stated objectives in the game that we have seen from marketing. Solas meanwhile, despite his personal power and brilliance, still has made every indication that he intends to fight a shadow war. He does not want to move openly. He wants to stick in the shadows and play his opponents off one another because despite his personal powers he does not really have the numbers to stand up to all of the Theadosian nations truly unifying against him. Edit: I mean hell at this point Solas doesn't even have all the Elves on his side. The Venatori have never gotten even an iota close to being able to harness Solas’s or any ancient elven power. The only one who did was Corypheus and he’s gone now. So no, I don’t see them as a threat worth considering. At most like you said they may be used as a distraction by Solas but that is an argument for ignoring them and going after him than it is for going after them. So Varric is even more of an idiot than I thought. Speaking of, guess the Shadow Dragons are so useless they can’t even handle some Venatori. If so don’t see how they’ll be of any use against Solas. As for the Reapers, they never wanted to move openly either. ME1 and ME2 have them operating from the shadows like Solas is. They only moved in the open in ME3 since at that point that was their only option (at least as much as it being a game would allow). Guarantee that as Solas grows more desperate he’ll be acting more in the open too. That is just fundamentally not true. The Imperium itself is built on the bones of the Elven Empire and of Elven magic and the Venatori seem to be cultists who are very much interested in that ancient legacy. We know that they were interested in ancient artifacts and interested in restoring their own power in the wake of Corypheus's defeat and, since we know they existed prior to Corypheus now, was even looking for those clues and artificats to restrore the Imperium's power. Hunting down artifacts, monsters, individuals, and methods of gaining magical power is all well established as things that they actually do so I can't imagine a world where they wouldn't be at least somewhat aware of Solas's powers and the ability to utilize them if the opprotunity presented itself. See the Orb of Destruction.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 17, 2023 3:16:07 GMT
The Venatori have never gotten even an iota close to being able to harness Solas’s or any ancient elven power. The only one who did was Corypheus and he’s gone now. So no, I don’t see them as a threat worth considering. At most like you said they may be used as a distraction by Solas but that is an argument for ignoring them and going after him than it is for going after them. So Varric is even more of an idiot than I thought. Speaking of, guess the Shadow Dragons are so useless they can’t even handle some Venatori. If so don’t see how they’ll be of any use against Solas. As for the Reapers, they never wanted to move openly either. ME1 and ME2 have them operating from the shadows like Solas is. They only moved in the open in ME3 since at that point that was their only option (at least as much as it being a game would allow). Guarantee that as Solas grows more desperate he’ll be acting more in the open too. That is just fundamentally not true. The Imperium itself is built on the bones of the Elven Empire and of Elven magic and the Venatori seem to be cultists who are very much interested in that ancient legacy. We know that they were interested in ancient artifacts and interested in restoring their own power in the wake of Corypheus's defeat and, since we know they existed prior to Corypheus now, was even looking for those clues and artificats to restrore the Imperium's power. Hunting down artifacts, monsters, individuals, and methods of gaining magical power is all well established as things that they actually do so I can't imagine a world where they wouldn't be at least somewhat aware of Solas's powers and the ability to utilize them if the opprotunity presented itself. See the Orb of Destruction. I’m well aware of all that. I’m also well aware than when it comes to the Venatori they utterly failed at every attempt to do so. Please, give me examples where they succeeded without anything involving Corypheus’s actions being a factor.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 17, 2023 8:08:31 GMT
That is just fundamentally not true. The Imperium itself is built on the bones of the Elven Empire and of Elven magic and the Venatori seem to be cultists who are very much interested in that ancient legacy. I have to admit this is one of the problems I have with the sudden emergence in the Dragon Age of numerous ancient artifacts that can threaten the world, which started back with the novels and comic series by David Gaider. So far we have had: An amulet that can accelerate the taint in an individual to the point where they are cured. (The Calling) Magic of some sort (another amulet?) that could transmit the taint to every person on the planet. (The Calling) A device run on an ancient bloodline linked to dragons that could wipe the memories of every person on the planet, the Magrellen (Until we Sleep) An artifact that allows people physically to enter the Fade and another that can open the Veil, the Anchor and the Orb (DAI) Red lyrium, a tainted substance that is organic (even though lyrium was originally a mineral), can be farmed off living organisms and give even non-mages increased magical powers. (DA2 and DAI) The idol, which is made of red lyrium, which is also capable of opening the Veil and commanding spirits as well as channeling magical power. (DAI and Tevinter Nights) The Crucious Stone, which may or may not appear outside of the comic, but is said to have the power to destroy Tevinter. (The Missing) Now my problem is not with the existence of these sorts of items but the fact they have only just started appearing. Dorian says that apparently he has seen pictures of the ancient Dreamers shown with orbs and we learned in JoH that the priests of Razikale in ancient times seemed to be using foci to channel magical energy, so what happened to them? You could argue that the First Blight caused some knowledge to be lost and the Chantry's proscription against magic may have resulted in further erosion of magical knowledge but it seems to me that the Imperium was around for around for some 1200 years before these events and the Neromenians had been constructing their kingdoms on the ruins of the ancient elves for another 1500 years before that, so you would think that if these items were so easy to find, they would already have done so far back in the past. Also, the first time the Qunari appeared, they would have been dusted off and brought out to eliminate them. Yet it is only the Venatori who have suddenly grown interested in ancient elven artifacts. I would have put this down to Corypheus' influence, except Danarius was apparently a Venatori and used an ancient elven artifact to create Fenris, so it would seem Corypheus took an interest in them because of their research rather than vice versa. I can also understand Solas wanting to prevent them discovering more but not why he ever entrusted his orb to them in the first place. I agree that his main concern, and ours, is the possibility of them misusing an item and causing even more damage than Corypheus did. To be honest, I think their interest in Solas may stem more from the fact that he knows the location of these artifacts and how to use them. So, even if they were hoping Varric/Harding would lead them to Solas, it was not in order to kill but to capture him. Whilst I very much doubt even their own blood magic could control him, perhaps with the aid of red lyrium they could. I think we also should not forget there is another group that has been taking a great interest in magical artifacts and researching them, the Qun. They were trying to find ways of strengthening the Veil and likely other ways of defending against magic, since that has always been the chief way in which other nations have been able to repel them. Solas, or his agent, has now been responsible for the destruction of two of their magical research facilities and Charter admits they know more about his movements than anyone, so I wouldn't rule them out as a potential danger to Solas either. Since the writers chose to separate out the Qun into two factions, with the Antaam being the villains and Par Vollen the more reasonable group, I think there is a good chance we could end up working with the latter. I have to admit, I would much rather work with Par Vollen than the Venatori. However, since the Venatori have always been depicted as the villains in all the associated media, I doubt they will be an option going forward but just a group we need to stop before they do something stupid.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 17, 2023 8:20:36 GMT
I’m well aware of all that. I’m also well aware than when it comes to the Venatori they utterly failed at every attempt to do so. Please, give me examples where they succeeded without anything involving Corypheus’s actions being a factor. This is why I don't believe that they are going to be anything other than a problem we have to deal with on the path to Solas. It would be frustrating and disappointing if they suddenly became capable and powerful after the fall of Corypheus when by rights that should have done the opposite to their prospects. I would also be rather disappointed in Solas if he underestimated them a second time after the debacle with his orb. He clearly has been watching them because of what happened after Dark Fortress in Tevinter Nights. I assume he allowed that ritual to go ahead because he knew how he was going to counter it and to send a warning to the Mortalitasi about meddling in affairs about which they had only superficial knowledge. I was surprised he allowed the idol to be removed from the area though, unless that was deliberate in order reveal more members of the Venatori to him. However, according to his story, he now has the idol, unless that is what he wanted Charter to believe and he is in fact still looking for it. In which case, finding the idol could well involve the Venatori. In view of how it powered up a non-mage like Meredith, I imagine it could be very dangerous in the hands of fanatics like the Venatori.
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Post by thecommandershepard on May 17, 2023 9:21:38 GMT
Thedas finest tackers let the world ending threat escape to save a few elves (not that they even had any plan of how to stop him in the first place beyond "talk to him" or "shoot an arrow at him"), who have decent chance of becoming Solase's allies anyway. In fact, they were already ready to ally with him. I figured out there was a decent chance Solas was hoping for them to rescue the elves and serve as a distraction, straight away. Basically, this whole journey was a massive waste of time. They accomplished nothing beyond learning bare bone scraps of information that as of now are absolutely of no use to them. As I've said, we should have sent templars and seekers, they probably wouldn't waste time saving Solas's likely future allies and letting him go. If they had a comprehensive plan and the right people, they could have went for Solas and maybe even succeed at killing him. Venatori would have killed his likely allies, meaning even if the assassination was a failure, at least Solas would end up with fewer allies. Also, why all of the sudden is it Varric that wants to talk to Solas and Hardin to kill him? While early on the comic tried to establish it was the other way around, Varric wanted to kill him and Harding at least implied she would want to talk things through. Anyway, the whole tracking squad actions in this comic can be summed up with...
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Post by colfoley on May 17, 2023 11:00:43 GMT
That is just fundamentally not true. The Imperium itself is built on the bones of the Elven Empire and of Elven magic and the Venatori seem to be cultists who are very much interested in that ancient legacy. I have to admit this is one of the problems I have with the sudden emergence in the Dragon Age of numerous ancient artifacts that can threaten the world, which started back with the novels and comic series by David Gaider. So far we have had: An amulet that can accelerate the taint in an individual to the point where they are cured. (The Calling) Magic of some sort (another amulet?) that could transmit the taint to every person on the planet. (The Calling) A device run on an ancient bloodline linked to dragons that could wipe the memories of every person on the planet, the Magrellen (Until we Sleep) An artifact that allows people physically to enter the Fade and another that can open the Veil, the Anchor and the Orb (DAI) Red lyrium, a tainted substance that is organic (even though lyrium was originally a mineral), can be farmed off living organisms and give even non-mages increased magical powers. (DA2 and DAI) The idol, which is made of red lyrium, which is also capable of opening the Veil and commanding spirits as well as channeling magical power. (DAI and Tevinter Nights) The Crucious Stone, which may or may not appear outside of the comic, but is said to have the power to destroy Tevinter. (The Missing) Now my problem is not with the existence of these sorts of items but the fact they have only just started appearing. Dorian says that apparently he has seen pictures of the ancient Dreamers shown with orbs and we learned in JoH that the priests of Razikale in ancient times seemed to be using foci to channel magical energy, so what happened to them? You could argue that the First Blight caused some knowledge to be lost and the Chantry's proscription against magic may have resulted in further erosion of magical knowledge but it seems to me that the Imperium was around for around for some 1200 years before these events and the Neromenians had been constructing their kingdoms on the ruins of the ancient elves for another 1500 years before that, so you would think that if these items were so easy to find, they would already have done so far back in the past. Also, the first time the Qunari appeared, they would have been dusted off and brought out to eliminate them. Yet it is only the Venatori who have suddenly grown interested in ancient elven artifacts. I would have put this down to Corypheus' influence, except Danarius was apparently a Venatori and used an ancient elven artifact to create Fenris, so it would seem Corypheus took an interest in them because of their research rather than vice versa. I can also understand Solas wanting to prevent them discovering more but not why he ever entrusted his orb to them in the first place. I agree that his main concern, and ours, is the possibility of them misusing an item and causing even more damage than Corypheus did. To be honest, I think their interest in Solas may stem more from the fact that he knows the location of these artifacts and how to use them. So, even if they were hoping Varric/Harding would lead them to Solas, it was not in order to kill but to capture him. Whilst I very much doubt even their own blood magic could control him, perhaps with the aid of red lyrium they could. I think we also should not forget there is another group that has been taking a great interest in magical artifacts and researching them, the Qun. They were trying to find ways of strengthening the Veil and likely other ways of defending against magic, since that has always been the chief way in which other nations have been able to repel them. Solas, or his agent, has now been responsible for the destruction of two of their magical research facilities and Charter admits they know more about his movements than anyone, so I wouldn't rule them out as a potential danger to Solas either. Since the writers chose to separate out the Qun into two factions, with the Antaam being the villains and Par Vollen the more reasonable group, I think there is a good chance we could end up working with the latter. I have to admit, I would much rather work with Par Vollen than the Venatori. However, since the Venatori have always been depicted as the villains in all the associated media, I doubt they will be an option going forward but just a group we need to stop before they do something stupid. I think its really on the one hand a combination of historical curiosity, profit motive, and opprotunity with on the other hand a need for neccessity. On the first point the Elves have always had an interest in recovering historical artifacts and learn from the past, along with Mythal and Morrigan. It isn't too known why they had to wait until the present day to be too successful but maybe it was the opprotunity presented by the Fifth Blight being in a region where Flemeth could get to the Old God soul for the first time which you also had the discovery of the Eluvian which spuirred on the discovery of the next. The Dwarves likewise had to wait for a Blight to clear out the Deep Roads in order to begin their historical research, likely motivitated by the return of Kal Shirok to modern society, but they didn't have the opprotunity until the Fifth Blight cleared out the Deep Roads. This led to the reclamation of Kal Hirol, the discovery of the Harvester, and Bartrand's Expedition which led to the discovery of the idol, Red Lyrium, and its growth on the surface. Meanwhile Humans don't really seem to have that much historical curiosity unless it could directly benefit them and their efforts... Meanwhile for neccessities sake you had Branka's expedition to find the Anvil of the Void to help restore the Dwarves and most of the Inquisitor's activities against Corypheus and the ancient history they discovered was only as a direct result of what he the Venatori and the Red Templars were up to. Though discovering ancient history has always been a bit of a thing for Dragon Age.
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Post by eaglepursuit on May 17, 2023 13:56:28 GMT
I have to admit this is one of the problems I have with the sudden emergence in the Dragon Age of numerous ancient artifacts that can threaten the world, which started back with the novels and comic series by David Gaider. So far we have had: An amulet that can accelerate the taint in an individual to the point where they are cured. (The Calling) Magic of some sort (another amulet?) that could transmit the taint to every person on the planet. (The Calling) A device run on an ancient bloodline linked to dragons that could wipe the memories of every person on the planet, the Magrellen (Until we Sleep) An artifact that allows people physically to enter the Fade and another that can open the Veil, the Anchor and the Orb (DAI) Red lyrium, a tainted substance that is organic (even though lyrium was originally a mineral), can be farmed off living organisms and give even non-mages increased magical powers. (DA2 and DAI) The idol, which is made of red lyrium, which is also capable of opening the Veil and commanding spirits as well as channeling magical power. (DAI and Tevinter Nights) The Crucious Stone, which may or may not appear outside of the comic, but is said to have the power to destroy Tevinter. (The Missing) Now my problem is not with the existence of these sorts of items but the fact they have only just started appearing. Dorian says that apparently he has seen pictures of the ancient Dreamers shown with orbs and we learned in JoH that the priests of Razikale in ancient times seemed to be using foci to channel magical energy, so what happened to them? You could argue that the First Blight caused some knowledge to be lost and the Chantry's proscription against magic may have resulted in further erosion of magical knowledge but it seems to me that the Imperium was around for around for some 1200 years before these events and the Neromenians had been constructing their kingdoms on the ruins of the ancient elves for another 1500 years before that, so you would think that if these items were so easy to find, they would already have done so far back in the past. Also, the first time the Qunari appeared, they would have been dusted off and brought out to eliminate them. Yet it is only the Venatori who have suddenly grown interested in ancient elven artifacts. I would have put this down to Corypheus' influence, except Danarius was apparently a Venatori and used an ancient elven artifact to create Fenris, so it would seem Corypheus took an interest in them because of their research rather than vice versa. I can also understand Solas wanting to prevent them discovering more but not why he ever entrusted his orb to them in the first place. I agree that his main concern, and ours, is the possibility of them misusing an item and causing even more damage than Corypheus did. To be honest, I think their interest in Solas may stem more from the fact that he knows the location of these artifacts and how to use them. So, even if they were hoping Varric/Harding would lead them to Solas, it was not in order to kill but to capture him. Whilst I very much doubt even their own blood magic could control him, perhaps with the aid of red lyrium they could. I think we also should not forget there is another group that has been taking a great interest in magical artifacts and researching them, the Qun. They were trying to find ways of strengthening the Veil and likely other ways of defending against magic, since that has always been the chief way in which other nations have been able to repel them. Solas, or his agent, has now been responsible for the destruction of two of their magical research facilities and Charter admits they know more about his movements than anyone, so I wouldn't rule them out as a potential danger to Solas either. Since the writers chose to separate out the Qun into two factions, with the Antaam being the villains and Par Vollen the more reasonable group, I think there is a good chance we could end up working with the latter. I have to admit, I would much rather work with Par Vollen than the Venatori. However, since the Venatori have always been depicted as the villains in all the associated media, I doubt they will be an option going forward but just a group we need to stop before they do something stupid. I think its really on the one hand a combination of historical curiosity, profit motive, and opprotunity with on the other hand a need for neccessity. On the first point the Elves have always had an interest in recovering historical artifacts and learn from the past, along with Mythal and Morrigan. It isn't too known why they had to wait until the present day to be too successful but maybe it was the opprotunity presented by the Fifth Blight being in a region where Flemeth could get to the Old God soul for the first time which you also had the discovery of the Eluvian which spuirred on the discovery of the next. The Dwarves likewise had to wait for a Blight to clear out the Deep Roads in order to begin their historical research, likely motivitated by the return of Kal Shirok to modern society, but they didn't have the opprotunity until the Fifth Blight cleared out the Deep Roads. This led to the reclamation of Kal Hirol, the discovery of the Harvester, and Bartrand's Expedition which led to the discovery of the idol, Red Lyrium, and its growth on the surface. Meanwhile Humans don't really seem to have that much historical curiosity unless it could directly benefit them and their efforts... Meanwhile for neccessities sake you had Branka's expedition to find the Anvil of the Void to help restore the Dwarves and most of the Inquisitor's activities against Corypheus and the ancient history they discovered was only as a direct result of what he the Venatori and the Red Templars were up to. Though discovering ancient history has always been a bit of a thing for Dragon Age. It's also possible that Thedas periodically undergoes this process of uncovery and eventual destruction of historical McGuffins. And that often times, these events aren't recorded or the records are suppressed. The powers that be certainly seen to have the political apparatuses in place to implement these sorts of things (suppression and destruction).
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Post by dayze on May 17, 2023 15:02:26 GMT
Far as artifacts go there is another from the Tallis web-series that was going to open up the fade and let out a lot of spirits.
Thinking about it, kind of surprising the Dalish haven't had some super-mage/artificer come up with some plan that could destabilize things and cause problems. Don't like society, humans etc....all that much and are constantly looking around for old artifacts and history ala Merrill and so forth.
There's also all the main characters of the games, considering it's been what a decade and half over the course of the games....the fact that there's been 3 heroes capable of going through swath's of epic and legendary monsters, champions, semi-divine entities is kind of a bit much, especially factoring in all of their OP companions as well.
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Post by necrowaif on May 17, 2023 17:55:05 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on May 17, 2023 18:15:28 GMT
Far as artifacts go there is another from the Tallis web-series that was going to open up the fade and let out a lot of spirits. Which from what I recall was called the Mask of Fen'Harel, which made sense in view of what we now know about him but her series occurred way before DAI and Trespasser, so was that just lucky coincidence? Thinking about it, kind of surprising the Dalish haven't had some super-mage/artificer come up with some plan that could destabilize things and cause problems I have to put it down to the possibility that most of their more powerful mages died during the Exalted March on the Dales. I mean we had the example of Ameridan who had the knowledge to create a time bubble in which he entrapped himself with Hakkon, which was pretty powerful magic, of which we had another example in the Western Approach by Tevinter mages, yet apparently manipulation of time magic was lost to both the Dalish and Tevinter until Alexius started to research it. As we now know from this latest comic series, weird magical warping of time and space would seem to be linked to the ancient elves, so Ameridan had managed to revive at least a small part of his race's ancient knowledge. you also had the discovery of the Eluvian which spuirred on the discovery of the next. Actually, that was curious because Duncan claimed he had seen examples of eluvians in Tevinter but he thought they were for communication, not travel. Now Dark Fortress showed they can be used for such a purpose, so perhaps the ancient Vints managed to unlock that aspect without discovering the more important travel one. It also seems to some extent that people discovering these artifacts have to rely on spirits/demons for information about them. Now according to WoT, the Dalish are very wary about having much to do with spirits, which I have put down to Keepers having had some nasty run ins with Fen'Harel in the Fade and taking his threats seriously, which probably limited their knowledge about the purpose and operation of artifacts they discovered. I rather suspect the only reason Thelhen summoned Imshael in Masked Empire is that Felassan suggested it to him and didn't want to do so himself. Also Imshael suggested to Michel that the network had been active during the time of the Dales but was shut down again at their fall, presumably to stop the humans getting control of them. Still, that suggests there was someone during that time who had the requisite knowledge to use them, possibly the source of the book that later came into the possession of Morrigan. I always thought that it was a bit odd a Dalish clan had that book but had never thought to use it but it would make sense if it was written in ancient elven and the author/translator was killed before passing on their knowledge to others. Either that, or they were an agent of Fen'Harel who had awoken in that earlier period, aged and died. Another artifact we should not forget about is the strange book mentioned in the short story Ruins of Reality that apparently started to write itself around the same time as the weird magic appeared, together with the halla statue that appeared to give some localised control over it. Since we were given no specific time frame for the Missing, there is no way of knowing if it was set before or after the events in the short stories, although I'm guessing the latter. If so, that would mean the Veil Jumpers were set up in response not only to the magical phenomena but also likely using information from that book. I would definitely be interested to know where exactly the Morlin clan acquired it.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on May 18, 2023 2:09:29 GMT
Another artifact we should not forget about is the strange book mentioned in the short story Ruins of Reality that apparently started to write itself around the same time as the weird magic appeared, together with the halla statue that appeared to give some localised control over it. Since we were given no specific time frame for the Missing, there is no way of knowing if it was set before or after the events in the short stories, although I'm guessing the latter. If so, that would mean the Veil Jumpers were set up in response not only to the magical phenomena but also likely using information from that book. I would definitely be interested to know where exactly the Morlin clan acquired it. I wonder if perhaps it's not a special book at all, but instead whatever Solas is doing that's messing with the arlathan forest may also allow someone to magically reach out and change/write in a perfectly normal book. A spirit, or even an evanuris, reaching through the veil perhaps?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 18, 2023 8:05:47 GMT
whatever Solas is doing that's messing with the arlathan forest I know that Harding/Varric assumed that Solas was responsible but was there any definitive evidence to say it was him? It could equally have been someone else using an ancient elven artifact, as happened when Corypheus opened the Veil at the end of DAI. We know, from Horror of Hormack, that strange stuff is happening in the Deep Roads and I'm pretty sure Solas is not responsible for that. In fact, given the smell of the sea associated with it, I suspected the Executors of activating the magic there. Even if they are not responsible, those strange areas seem to have some connection with Ghilan'nain and since the halla statue was connected with the magical weirdness in Arlathan, I think there is probably a link between the two. Solas continually warns people against messing with magic they do not understand. He told the Mortalitasi that their meddling threatened the world and given they were involved in a ritual using the idol, I can well believe it, because we didn't need Solas to tell us that it is a very dangerous item in the hands of the ambitious and ignorant. That, of course, holds true of the Venatori too, particularly when it comes to red lyrium. Given one of their number was using it for the trivial purpose of creating fashion items, they clearly are not using it either responsibly or sparingly. There were weird magical anomalies occurring in that house in Kirkwall as a result of a small piece of red lyrium, so who is to say that a larger amount, say immediately under the forest, couldn't have caused the oddities they encountered. Solas warned Charter that the Executors are dangerous and whilst that was rather rich coming from him, I think it is a warning she should have taken seriously. Then we have the Viddasala's magical research on behalf of the Qun, which went horribly wrong when it came to powering up their Saarebas. Who is to say that her successor didn't try using some magical item to control the magic of Arlathan but instead it had the opposite effect? To be honest, whilst Solas admits his original action in ancient times didn't go entirely to plan, unlike those examples already mentioned, nothing he has been involved in during the present has given the impression of magic running out of his control. He has now promised he will try to minimise the damage his plans might cause, which seems a bit odd if he has already caused the strange phenomena of Arlathan Forest where magic is clearly running out of control. So, I do hope the writers aren't laying a false trail by having characters make assumptions that others should challenge in the light of experience and much later on have our PC discover they were wrong. Varric and Harding have, either together or separately, witnessed all those examples I have mentioned (with the exception of Horror of Hormack) or could have heard about them via their network of contacts, so their rather simplistic assumptions in the comic series were rather disappointing, not simply with regard to the strange magic in Arlathan but also things like the identity of the person following them or how much Solas was involved in laying the trail for them to follow. Why did they go to Minrathous after Arlathan? There seemed no obvious reason to think that Solas had been headed that way and, if it was based on reports of seeing him, how did they get them?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 18, 2023 8:32:34 GMT
I wonder if perhaps it's not a special book at all, but instead whatever Solas is doing that's messing with the arlathan forest may also allow someone to magically reach out and change/write in a perfectly normal book. A spirit, or even an evanuris, reaching through the veil perhaps? I assume that the fact is was a relic suggests it probably always had some sort of magic connected with it that something nearby had triggered: It was a relic of the Morlyn clan, handed down over generations. Their Keeper had given it to Strife when it started rewriting itself last month. Mysterious entries appeared of their own accord, describing sacred ruins in Arlathan Forest that guarded an artifact of fabled power.In Tevinter Nights they seem to have been in the area of the Arlathan Forest for a while, although they must have traveled north previously in response to something since Strife joined them near Starkhaven. It is not clear if they traveled north because of the writing in the book or for some other reason. If the writing only occurred after they got near the forest, then may be it was some latent magic that triggered the writing or may be whatever caused the magical anomalies also caused the changes in the book. In the story, the strange magic stops once Irelin recovers the halla statue. Was this before or after the events of the Missing? If before, then clearly the magic resumed or the halla only controlled it over a limited area. However, it is curious that Strife and Irelin never mentioned the statue or tried using it to control the magic on their path, so may be Ruins of Reality occurs afterwards in the timeline. Whatever the case, even if the book is never mentioned again, so whatever caused the writing is never explained, it would seem the halla statue is going to play a part going forward once we re-establish contact with the Veil Jumpers. It is possible they didn't mention it because it is a secret known only to their faction and the source of their Veil Jumper abilities.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on May 18, 2023 10:36:23 GMT
It is possible they didn't mention it because it is a secret known only to their faction and the source of their Veil Jumper abilities. Do the Veil jumpers have any particular abilities? Based on the comic I thought that they were just skilled dalish mages and hunter plus non dalish that work together to deal with the stuff going down in arlathan, Strife didn't seem to be using one of those magic bows from the concept art and teaser trailer, or anything else special. Unless I missed something.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 18, 2023 11:13:06 GMT
Do the Veil jumpers have any particular abilities? I'm assuming they are keeping that back for the game. So, all the writer was told to do was introduce the faction by name and the individuals connected with it. I would think that the Arcane Archer is going to feature in connection with them at some point, considering each of the factions in the comic were previously featured in both the short stories and the 2020 trailer. Now in the concept art the Archer is shaped like a female, so that would point to either Irelin or Binde, the only non-elf in the group that we have actually seen. Since the mask in the art covered the head, you couldn't see if the individual had elf ears, so it could be Binde. I don't think it could be Irelin as her specialism is shapeshifting. Of course, it is possible that the Veil Jumpers are not connected with the Arcane Archer and the figure in the 2020 trailer was an outlier representing some other faction we are going to encounter, for example the Executors, but given the Morlin clan seem to have great reverence for Andruil, I could see them having perfected the specialism of Arcane Archer as a mage choice similar to that of Arcane Warrior/Knight Enchanter except with a bow instead of a blade. I have to admit I think it would be amusing if that is the case considering "Dalish" of the Chargers kept insisting her staff was a bow. Perhaps she was telling the truth. Another thought that occurred to me about Binde is that she could have originated in Rivain and thus is one of their wise women seers that we have previously been told so much about. They have a very positive relationship with spirits, with clearly very ancient roots to their magic, so that would explain how she could have turned up in Arlathan and been accepted by the Morlin. I am rather hoping that is the case because I was really hoping to encounter a Rivaini Seer this time round.
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Post by The Loyal Nub on May 18, 2023 15:28:30 GMT
So I just finished the 4th issue last night and in a word: Underwhelmed.
A big nothingburger. Change my mind?
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Post by eaglepursuit on May 18, 2023 15:51:33 GMT
So I just finished the 4th issue last night and in a word: Underwhelmed. A big nothingburger. Change my mind? I think everyone is more or less in agreement. It might preview some factions or characters that we will see in the game, but as a story, it's utterly underwhelming
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Post by colfoley on May 18, 2023 19:17:50 GMT
I wasn't expecting this comic to be that important in the grand scheme of things, indeed it might've been too much of a something burger based on the mural in issue three. Far more critical of the inconsistencies between issues and overall world.
Think this is an instance of marketing first, story second.
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Post by necrowaif on May 18, 2023 19:30:28 GMT
So I just finished the 4th issue last night and in a word: Underwhelmed. A big nothingburger. Change my mind? What do you mean it was a big nothingburger? Did you not read that part in the fourth issue where Solas appeared, said "It's Wolfin' Time" and then wolfed out on the Venatori? That shit was awesome!
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Post by The Loyal Nub on May 18, 2023 21:52:51 GMT
So I just finished the 4th issue last night and in a word: Underwhelmed. A big nothingburger. Change my mind? What do you mean it was a big nothingburger? Did you not read that part in the fourth issue where Solas appeared, said "It's Wolfin' Time" and then wolfed out on the Venatori? That shit was awesome! Oh shit, I better go re-read it then!
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The Maker Take You
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Post by The Loyal Nub on May 18, 2023 21:54:46 GMT
I wasn't expecting this comic to be that important in the grand scheme of things, indeed it might've been too much of a something burger based on the mural in issue three. Far more critical of the inconsistencies between issues and overall world. Think this is an instance of marketing first, story second. Well definitely marketing but very slight on story. Like it was written for 10 year olds. Not sure what they are aiming for here but it gives me a bit of worry about the game. I hope the level of writing in the game will not be this shallow or facile.
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Post by colfoley on May 18, 2023 23:10:57 GMT
I wasn't expecting this comic to be that important in the grand scheme of things, indeed it might've been too much of a something burger based on the mural in issue three. Far more critical of the inconsistencies between issues and overall world. Think this is an instance of marketing first, story second. Well definitely marketing but very slight on story. Like it was written for 10 year olds. Not sure what they are aiming for here but it gives me a bit of worry about the game. I hope the level of writing in the game will not be this shallow or facile. I'm not too concerned. Like it's more concerning that they'd let this be attached to the DA name without more quality control on their part but as far as I know no one from bioware was involved in this from a writing staff perspective. As I've theorized probably just gave them a list of things to introduce then left them to their own devices. Which is more annoying but not really concerning to me since, from what I've seen, the comics are basically the red headed step child of the Dragon Age extended universe. More telling, for me, was the recent project that did have BioWare's direct involvement with John Epler serving as executive producer Absolution felt both very well written and a proper Dragon Age story. Now it COULD be concerning, though this is reaching for something to be conce3ned about, that since they didn't coordinate (likely) then that's more evidence they didn't have the time, so more evidence of crunch rather then bad writing.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 19, 2023 5:05:35 GMT
Thinking about it, kind of surprising the Dalish haven't had some super-mage/artificer come up with some plan that could destabilize things and cause problems. Don't like society, humans etc....all that much and are constantly looking around for old artifacts and history ala Merrill and so forth. Its probably b/c of the inherent danger of spirits. Merrill's clan can die from her deal, and if Hawke hadn't been there or involved (and Merrill had continued on her own), Marethari might have ended up possessed and the clan might have been offed then, too. Then there's the attempt to control Imshael in Masked Empire. Like... they could get an artifact that opens the world to demons/spirits/the fade, sure. But getting away alive after using it seems a whole other issue. I wasn't expecting this comic to be that important in the grand scheme of things, indeed it might've been too much of a something burger based on the mural in issue three. Far more critical of the inconsistencies between issues and overall world. Think this is an instance of marketing first, story second. That mural situation IS (potentially) pretty interesting.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 19, 2023 8:03:51 GMT
Its probably b/c of the inherent danger of spirits. This is why I think the Dalish reluctance to engage in any magic connected with spirits, that was stated in World of Thedas and demonstrated in the attitudes of the clans we have encountered in game, was likely a good thing both in terms of their own survival and that of Thedas itself. As they freely admit so much knowledge had been lost to them down the years, it follows that using ancient relics without fully appreciating what they can do or how to limit their effects would be extremely risky. An example of this can be found in the story of Zathrian. He was using an ancient non-Fade spirit to enact a curse on his perceived enemies and ended up creating something that impacted everyone, including his own people. When the other Keepers discovered the truth about his "immortality" they condemned what he had done as a crime against nature, clearly intending to deter anyone else from attempting something similar in the future. I also think it a possibility that Fen'Harel could have influenced their thinking on spirits through them encountering him in the Fade. Again, World of Thedas says they believe he stalks the Fade, preying on unwary souls, and given the experience of the Mortalitasi in their binding ritual, I think it is entirely possible that at some point in the past a Keeper or group of Keepers may have attempted some sort of binding ritual and ended up having a similar sort of encounter and warning against attempting anything like that again. This is why I would find it interesting to know exactly how the Dalish view the return of Fen'Harel. According to the comic series, this was a revelation to Strife's group. Now whilst I am not entirely convinced the Morlin clan are regular Dalish, it nevertheless seems strange to me that they had no knowledge of this. According to Tevinter Nights his agents had been pretty active recruiting elves to their cause and, even if they steered clear of the Dalish, you would think some rumour of this would eventually make its way back to them, even if they initially dismissed it as unlikely to be true. After all, the Morlin clan had apparently heard of the Inquisition and would seem to have enough confidence in their agents that they immediately believed what they asserted about Solas. Yet, this was a total surprise to them?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 19, 2023 8:30:37 GMT
indeed it might've been too much of a something burger based on the mural in issue three. That mural situation IS (potentially) pretty interesting. The mural is one of those instances where I feel that Bioware had to have been involved both in authorising the use of the the Fen'Harel one from the trailer but also the other one depicting what appeared to be two female Evanuris. Whilst the individual illustrator may have been left to depict the detail as they saw fit, the actual substance had to have come from Bioware. Issue 3 was something of an anomaly compared with the rest of the series, particularly the first two issues which told us nothing we didn't already know or guess from other media. The Crucious Stone may or may not turn out to be important since we were never told anything about it other than it is an ancient relic that could be dangerous in the wrong hands (the Venatori) and which Solas prevented by recovering it himself, so can quietly be forgotten about by the writers in game, or only becomes important again should we catch up with him. However, issue 3 not only confirmed weird magic happening in Arlathan Forest but had those two murals. As they had originally been concealed behind brickwork in an ancient temple to one of the gods, clearly they were from a much earlier time. This rules out the one depicting Fen'Harel as showing what he intends to do in the future, unless he was responsible for both the murals in the temple. Yet, from conversations we had in DAI, Solas only regretted his actions and wanted to reverse them on awakening and discovering the world was worse than when he left it. However, the Dalish have a belief that when they remember what it is to being true elves then the gods will return, which does fit with what Solas has told us and believes himself, except it is not a case of the Dalish remembering independently, since so long as the Veil is in place they are denied this, but removing the Veil will restore them and free the gods. This suggests that at least some Keeper(s) must have formed the idea that Fen'Harel would release their gods or that the gods themselves would find a way of returning. The mural would suggest the former, remembering that the Dalish call the city in the Fade the Eternal City of their gods and believe that is where he imprisoned them. So, the intriguing question concerning the murals in issue 3 is who painted them? I assume that the temple is somewhere we will be revisiting in the game, unless the murals were just intended to get us discussing them in order to keep us occupied until the next droplet of information is released.
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