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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 17, 2023 6:48:55 GMT
I also imagine that when it became clear they had to cut it in half, they realized they'd have to figure out a way to close the book (as it were) on the Inquisitor, which they did with Trespasser (sorry again, Hanako, I'd be happy to be wrong and see the Inky again), and introduce a new PC. If so, oh boy they could not have failed harder if they tried. Ironically they took a character’s whose book was closed and opened it for a paid advertisement for something we already knew, ruining that book in the process. Thank you.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 17, 2023 8:09:49 GMT
If so, oh boy they could not have failed harder if they tried. Ironically they took a character’s whose book was closed and opened it for a paid advertisement for something we already knew, ruining that book in the process. As you know, I've always agreed with you on this one. It is my main criticism of the claimed intent by the writers with Trespasser: it did not close the book on the PC as the protagonist in the ongoing narrative, just their role as Lord Inquisitor of Thedas. This was largely caused by that confrontation with Solas at the end. They could have omitted that, finding a different way to remove the anchor, and their story would have concluded in a reasonably satisfactory manner, with them going into honourable retirement, with some idea that Solas was more than he had claimed to be but leaving their successor PC to discover the actual truth and the danger he represents. It was that final scene with Solas that flew in the face of the idea that the Inquisitor's story was over and did seem more of a teaser trailer for the next game. As he walked away from the Inquisitor after removing the anchor, you could almost imagine the words appearing "To be continued". So, the only way they have found to resolve this paradox is the idea "we need people Solas doesn't know". It seemed a rather poor excuse in 2015 but clearly they have not been able to come up with anything better; hence the wild goose chase of the Missing ending in the protagonists coming to exactly the same conclusion in 2023.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 17, 2023 11:10:03 GMT
On the subject of splitting Inquisition in 2 I can't help but wonder if its not for the best in the end. Afterall while it may've solved a few of the side quest problems and made the game very dense on the flip side Solas and Corypheus are just too disperate enemies to really work in the same game like that. Tonal whiplash could've been a very real consideration.
And its kind of a writing rule that you want your protagonist to perfectly counter the antagonist and vice versa, the antagonist needs to be made for the protagonist and mirror the protagonist is generally pretty good writing advice (though not a hard and fast rule). In that vein Inquisition was a very high level story. Both Corypheus and the Inquisitor were two very large forces fighting a very open and public war. While both organizations may've started off small through the gathering of political allies and favors the Inquisition grew and waged a war on behalf of the faith against Corypheus. This brought up huge philsophical and metaphorical questions on the nature of religion and deep seeded issues of the lore.
Contrast that with Solas which it is true they both mirror one another in terms of how much the know of one another (though as stated that is also a reason for the Inquisitor to not got involved) Solas next to Corypheus has always been a comparatively shadow warrior. Sure he's a god with comparative great powers to most of the people on Thedas today but next to the Evanuris and their combined might? He waged a guerilla, shadow war, under cover campaign to make up for the losses turning the Evanuris's people against them slowly but surely. And even though he has tremendous power today he seems content to do the same thing. This is a war that the Inquisitor, as a character archetype, just is not prepared to fight.
Which to loop it back around is the reason I don't want the Inquisitor within a thousand miles of Tevinter. No sole protagonist. No duel protagonist. To quote Varric she has suffered enough.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 17, 2023 15:40:19 GMT
This is a war that the Inquisitor, as a character archetype, just is not prepared to fight. At present I would argue, who is? At least the Inquisitor has a fair idea of what they are dealing with and, depending on your relationship with him, the possibility that Solas will always be a reluctant adversary. Our new PC will have no such advantages, although on the flip side, I suppose they won't have any emotional reason to pull their punches either. I'm still curious to discover exactly how they are going to factor in that declaration by the Inquisitor in the final scene about saving or slaying Solas. To quote Varric she has suffered enough. This really only applies to female Lavellan, whose romance I feel is part of the problem when it comes to how the story has developed because there are other versions where the Inquisitor is male and/or hates Solas' guts. So, Solas sending his apologies in Tevinter Nights comes off as trolling in the latter case. My male Lavellan doesn't hate Solas so much as feels utterly betrayed by him and disbanded the Inquisition with a defiant screw you to the Council and "I'm off to save the world again". So, if Varric did use those words (in the comic?), I feel it is somewhat patronising to suggest he has suffered enough. So, long as his former friend is out there plotting to destroy this world, he is not about to stop his pursuit of him and it is that thought that is causing him sleepless nights.
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humans as ornaments
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 17, 2023 17:27:04 GMT
I also imagine that when it became clear they had to cut it in half, they realized they'd have to figure out a way to close the book (as it were) on the Inquisitor, which they did with Trespasser (sorry again, Hanako, I'd be happy to be wrong and see the Inky again), and introduce a new PC. If so, oh boy they could not have failed harder if they tried. Ironically they took a character’s whose book was closed and opened it for a paid advertisement for something we already knew, ruining that book in the process. Thank you. Yeah there's definitely a sense in which they tried to slam that particular door closed... only for it to bounce back open a few inches. And this is another issue created specifically by splitting the game in half- presumably, the original plan was for the Inky to be the PC all the way through, i.e. for both the Corypheus first half of the game and the Solas/Veil second half of the game. But then you split it in half, what do you do with the PC? You have the first PC return for the 2nd game, which you haven't done before, and sort of makes it necessary for people buying DA:D to have played DA:I first (something video game manufacturers/developers seem to want to avoid)? Or introduce a new PC, have to waste time establishing their story and character and blah blah blah, and losing the character arc and relationships the player will have built up for the first one over the course of the game? And I think Trespasser was them trying to sort of split the difference, and was pretty hit-or-miss narratively. I'm quite fond of Trespasser overall, but I can definitely admit the way they've handled the protagonist and the overall story here is... a bit awkward, at best. So it was fortunate it had awesome gameplay upgrades and fan service. I did really like the lore reveals about the Evanuris and stuff, though- I'm a sucker for the nerdy shit.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 17, 2023 19:01:58 GMT
This is a war that the Inquisitor, as a character archetype, just is not prepared to fight. At present I would argue, who is? At least the Inquisitor has a fair idea of what they are dealing with and, depending on your relationship with him, the possibility that Solas will always be a reluctant adversary. Our new PC will have no such advantages, although on the flip side, I suppose they won't have any emotional reason to pull their punches either. I'm still curious to discover exactly how they are going to factor in that declaration by the Inquisitor in the final scene about saving or slaying Solas. To quote Varric she has suffered enough. This really only applies to female Lavellan, whose romance I feel is part of the problem when it comes to how the story has developed because there are other versions where the Inquisitor is male and/or hates Solas' guts. So, Solas sending his apologies in Tevinter Nights comes off as trolling in the latter case. My male Lavellan doesn't hate Solas so much as feels utterly betrayed by him and disbanded the Inquisition with a defiant screw you to the Council and "I'm off to save the world again". So, if Varric did use those words (in the comic?), I feel it is somewhat patronising to suggest he has suffered enough. So, long as his former friend is out there plotting to destroy this world, he is not about to stop his pursuit of him and it is that thought that is causing him sleepless nights. the line I am referencing was varric talking about Hawke when he had his fight with Cassandra. And my female trevelyan has suffered more then enough. Lost her arm. Fought a would be God. Had a mountain fall on her. Etc etc. It's literally time for a new hero since mine is living quite comfortably enjoying a much earned rest...relatively speaking. And this is doubly true when she doesen't have to lead from the front. She can do a lot of good in the South. Tripply so since her participation in the war will be a negative considering Solas has proven on three separate occasions to be ahead of the Inquision and able to anticipate their moves.
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Post by phoray on Jun 17, 2023 20:18:01 GMT
Other games have done 2 protagonists talking to each other, both controlled by player, I think it's doable....This aspect of Tales from the Borderlands was one of the best parts of that game. Also done in Detroit: Become Human I just want Inky to be able to have a final conversation the level of Trespasser quality where instead of a lost arm we have the option to give Solas a knife to the gut. And for those who loved him, hold him as he breaths his last breath. If no love, dump his body on the ground and not look back. That's the finality I want with Solas. I don't need a whole game for that. It's going to be frustrating acting like I don't know what Solas is up to the entire game as a nobody. But I'm cautiously optimistic that Solas will not be who Nobody is after or dealing with for most of the game. I want them to deal with a war in Tevinter and a slave uprising and shifting loyalties to a fracture Qun and crazy monsters in the sewers.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 17, 2023 20:31:07 GMT
Other games have done 2 protagonists talking to each other, both controlled by player, I think it's doable....This aspect of Tales from the Borderlands was one of the best parts of that game. Also done in Detroit: Become Human I just want Inky to be able to have a final conversation the level of Trespasser quality where instead of a lost arm we have the option to give Solas a knife to the gut. And for those who loved him, hold him as he breaths his last breath. If no love, dump his body on the ground and not look back. That's the finality I want with Solas. I don't need a whole game for that. It's going to be frustrating acting like I don't know what Solas is up to the entire game as a nobody. But I'm cautiously optimistic that Solas will not be who Nobody is after or dealing with for most of the game. I want them to deal with a war in Tevinter and a slave uprising and shifting loyalties to a fracture Qun and crazy monsters in the sewers. it's likely they'll be filled in early in the game by Varric/ Harding. What happens after that is anyone's guess.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 17, 2023 22:11:02 GMT
If so, oh boy they could not have failed harder if they tried. Ironically they took a character’s whose book was closed and opened it for a paid advertisement for something we already knew, ruining that book in the process. As you know, I've always agreed with you on this one. It is my main criticism of the claimed intent by the writers with Trespasser: it did not close the book on the PC as the protagonist in the ongoing narrative, just their role as Lord Inquisitor of Thedas. This was largely caused by that confrontation with Solas at the end. They could have omitted that, finding a different way to remove the anchor, and their story would have concluded in a reasonably satisfactory manner, with them going into honourable retirement, with some idea that Solas was more than he had claimed to be but leaving their successor PC to discover the actual truth and the danger he represents. It was that final scene with Solas that flew in the face of the idea that the Inquisitor's story was over and did seem more of a teaser trailer for the next game. As he walked away from the Inquisitor after removing the anchor, you could almost imagine the words appearing "To be continued". So, the only way they have found to resolve this paradox is the idea "we need people Solas doesn't know". It seemed a rather poor excuse in 2015 but clearly they have not been able to come up with anything better; hence the wild goose chase of the Missing ending in the protagonists coming to exactly the same conclusion in 2023. Yep. If the DLC was just about ending the Inquisition as a huge organization down to a small group and setting up the Qun invasion, it would have been better. Since at least with that one they don’t need a central role since everyone knows about the Qun. But the moment they involved Solas and had that conversation where he says “I’m going to kill you all in a few years. Have a good life.” they completely undid and ruined the story if they planned on retiring the Inquisitor as PC. The fact they haven’t come up with a better reason is why I have no faith in the writing for Dreadwolf. It’s going to be an incredibly stupid and infuriatingly forced reason.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 17, 2023 22:18:04 GMT
If so, oh boy they could not have failed harder if they tried. Ironically they took a character’s whose book was closed and opened it for a paid advertisement for something we already knew, ruining that book in the process. Thank you. Yeah there's definitely a sense in which they tried to slam that particular door closed... only for it to bounce back open a few inches. And this is another issue created specifically by splitting the game in half- presumably, the original plan was for the Inky to be the PC all the way through, i.e. for both the Corypheus first half of the game and the Solas/Veil second half of the game. But then you split it in half, what do you do with the PC? You have the first PC return for the 2nd game, which you haven't done before, and sort of makes it necessary for people buying DA:D to have played DA:I first (something video game manufacturers/developers seem to want to avoid)? Or introduce a new PC, have to waste time establishing their story and character and blah blah blah, and losing the character arc and relationships the player will have built up for the first one over the course of the game? And I think Trespasser was them trying to sort of split the difference, and was pretty hit-or-miss narratively. I'm quite fond of Trespasser overall, but I can definitely admit the way they've handled the protagonist and the overall story here is... a bit awkward, at best. So it was fortunate it had awesome gameplay upgrades and fan service. I did really like the lore reveals about the Evanuris and stuff, though- I'm a sucker for the nerdy shit. I disagree with the part about needing to play past games. Absolutely they give better context, but most franchises with a returning protagonist you can join in fresh and quickly get into the same mindset as returning players. And yeah, how much time and resources of this game are going to be wasted reestablishing what people already know to catch the character up. All that could have been used to continue building the nuance and connection the old PC had. I absolutely hate Trespasser. It has two good things in it: the acting and the music. The Solas stuff all sucked if we aren’t continuing, the other plots sucked with how forced they are (why can’t I agree with Josie and tell them about the Aunari before Leliana and Cullen screw everything up leading Josephine to be mad at me too). Speaking of Josie, some romances got screwed like not being able to at least propose to everyone. And so on.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 17, 2023 22:24:06 GMT
And my female trevelyan has suffered more then enough. Lost her arm. Fought a would be God. Had a mountain fall on her. Etc etc. It's literally time for a new hero since mine is living quite comfortably enjoying a much earned rest...relatively speaking. And this is doubly true when she doesen't have to lead from the front. She can do a lot of good in the South. Tripply so since her participation in the war will be a negative considering Solas has proven on three separate occasions to be ahead of the Inquision and able to anticipate their moves. Meanwhile my Inquisitor is living in Antiva. Can’t wait to see how they butcher that to make it match other Inquisitors. And Solas is only winning that so far because BioWare is beating the Inquisition with the Idiot stick to try to make him seem smart. They can’t actually make him seem smart, so they’re just making everyone more stupid so he looks smart in comparison. Meanwhile again the Inquisitor is explicitly established to constantly be surprising Solas. Also done in Detroit: Become Human I just want Inky to be able to have a final conversation the level of Trespasser quality where instead of a lost arm we have the option to give Solas a knife to the gut. And for those who loved him, hold him as he breaths his last breath. If no love, dump his body on the ground and not look back. That's the finality I want with Solas. I don't need a whole game for that. It's going to be frustrating acting like I don't know what Solas is up to the entire game as a nobody. But I'm cautiously optimistic that Solas will not be who Nobody is after or dealing with for most of the game. I want them to deal with a war in Tevinter and a slave uprising and shifting loyalties to a fracture Qun and crazy monsters in the sewers. it's likely they'll be filled in early in the game by Varric/ Harding. What happens after that is anyone's guess. Oh boy. Instead of playing a story of someone trying to avenge their family who were killed by a friend, we’re going to play a story of someone who heard someone did something bad to another person’s family. I can’t wait.
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August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 18, 2023 7:43:49 GMT
And this is doubly true when she doesen't have to lead from the front. She can do a lot of good in the South. Tripply so since her participation in the war will be a negative considering Solas has proven on three separate occasions to be ahead of the Inquision and able to anticipate their moves. Which is why I've always argued the Inquisitor shouldn't have had that confrontation with Solas. Then they could have been sent into retirement, may be got wind of the rise of this cult of Fen'Harel and sent people north to discover more about who it involved because they suspect Solas may be connected in some way. However, there was no reason to feel personally responsible and it could all be done via codices and letters. Whilst, I agree they don't have to lead from the front, it does appear to be the only thing occupying the time of the scaled down Inquisition and, if it has been ascertained that the majority of Solas' activities and those of his followers is now in the northern half of Thedas, you would think the ex-Inquisitor would at least move their base of operations up there. Ravens and sending crystals are all very well but would take time to travel to the relevant location if someone turns up something important and make no mistake, if they are running the operation, given its importance, they should want to get hands on at some point. As for Solas constantly being one step ahead of them, they have now hammered home that point so much it is a wonder anyone connected in any way with the Inquisition is going to be able to avoid his notice. He knows the principle players and, even without his own ability to follow people through the Fade, can just have one or more of his agents keeping watch on each. The moment they make contact with someone new, that person will also be tracked. It's going to be frustrating acting like I don't know what Solas is up to the entire game as a nobody. But I'm cautiously optimistic that Solas will not be who Nobody is after or dealing with for most of the game. I want them to deal with a war in Tevinter and a slave uprising and shifting loyalties to a fracture Qun and crazy monsters in the sewers. This is the only way I can see the new PC working or being credible. Initially they have no connection with the Inquisition whatsoever but are dealing with other issues in the north and, let's face it, there seems plenty to work with up there. Then at some point in the narrative their efforts uncover the threat of Solas and they cross paths with agents of the Inquisition, at which point they form a loose alliance with them and become a target of surveillance by him or his agents. It may well turn out that we have acquired various clues and items in our previous activities that combined are going to be vital in stopping him, although we did not know it at the time (or our PC didn't but we may have joined the dots). The other possibility, of course, is that it turns out that Solas is not going to be the big bad we have to deal with in the end and we have to make a truce and join forces with him in order to overcome the greater threat. At present, my money is still on the ultimate threat being red lyrium/the Blight covering the surface of the world and we have to find and deal with the source of it to save the world from destruction and remove the need for Solas' ritual to "purify" it.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,919 Likes: 7,494
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Agent 46
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0
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Dec 12, 2024 10:45:45 GMT
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Clearance Level Ultra
2,919
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 18, 2023 7:59:18 GMT
And my female trevelyan has suffered more then enough. Lost her arm. Fought a would be God. Had a mountain fall on her. Etc etc. It's literally time for a new hero since mine is living quite comfortably enjoying a much earned rest...relatively speaking. And this is doubly true when she doesen't have to lead from the front. She can do a lot of good in the South. Tripply so since her participation in the war will be a negative considering Solas has proven on three separate occasions to be ahead of the Inquision and able to anticipate their moves. Meanwhile my Inquisitor is living in Antiva. Can’t wait to see how they butcher that to make it match other Inquisitors. And Solas is only winning that so far because BioWare is beating the Inquisition with the Idiot stick to try to make him seem smart. They can’t actually make him seem smart, so they’re just making everyone more stupid so he looks smart in comparison. Meanwhile again the Inquisitor is explicitly established to constantly be surprising Solas. it's likely they'll be filled in early in the game by Varric/ Harding. What happens after that is anyone's guess. Oh boy. Instead of playing a story of someone trying to avenge their family who were killed by a friend, we’re going to play a story of someone who heard someone did something bad to another person’s family. I can’t wait. Never worry about some company writing fan fiction about your inquisitor.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 18, 2023 8:00:19 GMT
Meanwhile my Inquisitor is living in Antiva. Can’t wait to see how they butcher that to make it match other Inquisitors. Yes, if it wasn't enough that they have the Solas problem on their minds, they also have that of the Antaam invading Antiva. Now to be honest, that shouldn't just concern an Inquisitor who romanced Josephine. Even on a personal level they owe Josephine for all she did for them as their diplomat but there is also the matter of the Antaam breaking the Llomerryn Accord. Now if you handed the scaled down Inquisition over to the Divine as her private army, then that is where the Inquisition will be needed and you would think the Inquisitor would be useful in rallying people across the Freemarches on behalf of the Divine in readiness to defend their territory from further incursions. They would also have a vested interest in doing this if they disbanded the Inquisition since the Antaam breaking the Accord is still a threat to their security whatever they decided to do in retirement. Then once their defenses had been secured, launching an all out Exalted March on the Antaam utilising forces drawn from the western side of Thedas that was not immediately under threat and so could afford to spare the troops, principally Orlais but also Nevarra and possibly Ferelden too. So, unless the Inquisitor was someone who was pretty apathetic, with no motivation other than saving their own skin, I would actually expect to see them utilising their time in supporting the cause to repel the Antaam, whilst awaiting their agents out in the field to turn up news on Solas. (Actually, it is possible they will use the invasion of Antiva as a reason the Inquisitor is otherwise engaged.)
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Dec 12, 2024 10:42:53 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Jun 18, 2023 8:06:15 GMT
And this is doubly true when she doesen't have to lead from the front. She can do a lot of good in the South. Tripply so since her participation in the war will be a negative considering Solas has proven on three separate occasions to be ahead of the Inquision and able to anticipate their moves. Which is why I've always argued the Inquisitor shouldn't have had that confrontation with Solas. Then they could have been sent into retirement, may be got wind of the rise of this cult of Fen'Harel and sent people north to discover more about who it involved because they suspect Solas may be connected in some way. However, there was no reason to feel personally responsible and it could all be done via codices and letters. Whilst, I agree they don't have to lead from the front, it does appear to be the only thing occupying the time of the scaled down Inquisition and, if it has been ascertained that the majority of Solas' activities and those of his followers is now in the northern half of Thedas, you would think the ex-Inquisitor would at least move their base of operations up there. Ravens and sending crystals are all very well but would take time to travel to the relevant location if someone turns up something important and make no mistake, if they are running the operation, given its importance, they should want to get hands on at some point. As for Solas constantly being one step ahead of them, they have now hammered home that point so much it is a wonder anyone connected in any way with the Inquisition is going to be able to avoid his notice. He knows the principle players and, even without his own ability to follow people through the Fade, can just have one or more of his agents keeping watch on each. The moment they make contact with someone new, that person will also be tracked. It's going to be frustrating acting like I don't know what Solas is up to the entire game as a nobody. But I'm cautiously optimistic that Solas will not be who Nobody is after or dealing with for most of the game. I want them to deal with a war in Tevinter and a slave uprising and shifting loyalties to a fracture Qun and crazy monsters in the sewers. This is the only way I can see the new PC working or being credible. Initially they have no connection with the Inquisition whatsoever but are dealing with other issues in the north and, let's face it, there seems plenty to work with up there. Then at some point in the narrative their efforts uncover the threat of Solas and they cross paths with agents of the Inquisition, at which point they form a loose alliance with them and become a target of surveillance by him or his agents. It may well turn out that we have acquired various clues and items in our previous activities that combined are going to be vital in stopping him, although we did not know it at the time (or our PC didn't but we may have joined the dots). The other possibility, of course, is that it turns out that Solas is not going to be the big bad we have to deal with in the end and we have to make a truce and join forces with him in order to overcome the greater threat. At present, my money is still on the ultimate threat being red lyrium/the Blight covering the surface of the world and we have to find and deal with the source of it to save the world from destruction and remove the need for Solas' ritual to "purify" it. There is no reason for the Inquisitor to feel responsible now as things stand. I can see a Lavellan liking him being invested in stopping him but at the end of the day how much or how little the Inquisitor is involved in these decisions is up to our own head cannons and our own reads of our own characters and mine does not feel especially obligated to stop him per se, at least not in the front line and only obliquely. This will be the case at least until BioWare releases the next game...and quite probably, to an extent, beyond that as well. That is an assumption and not a particularly logical one. All we have gotten is snippets of the Shadow Inquisition's activities basically in a couple of short stories and a comic series. While it is true that the Inquisition itself no longer has the resources it once commanded so it has few agents to deploy from that perspective it might look like it, but there has been a lot of time which has passed between the end of Tresspasser and at least since the beginning of the Missing. And in that time the Inquisitior could have been doing any number of things involved with supporting Divine Victoria, living their life, participating in reform efforts, making public appearances, running an official edge of the Inquisition. And while the timeline is a mess, I know, but Absolution, Murder by Death Mages, Genitivi Dies in the End, and the comics featuring Vea provides us with some official clue of other things the Inquisition could be doing, again directly related to Solas, indirectly related to SOlas, or nothing to do with him. Looking for artifacts, looking for history, keeping an eye on the political situations and ensuring that x or y area does not fall into further chaos, and just generally keeping an eye on things and trying to move Thedas forward in a positive way. Not neccessarily. Solas is not omnipotent and his counter espionage activities might be related to watching for things specifically related to him. Depending on how closely he is actually monitoring the situation he could miss or dismiss the efforts of a new Protagonist as being beneath his notice. Or also more then likely he will also let a new protagonist advance in their cause.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 18, 2023 8:26:31 GMT
There is no reason for the Inquisitor to feel responsible now as things stand. Your former ally has declared his intent to destroy your world. Even if that is not actually your responsibility since you were not aware of the danger he represented whilst part of your organisation, I would think the majority of people would feel some sort of obligation to direct their efforts to stopping him now they have been informed personally by him of their intent. Otherwise, what is the point of anything? Solas may think he has given you a few years peace by foiling the Qun but could you really focus on anything else now you know his plan? I know I couldn't. Not neccessarily. Solas is not omnipotent and his counter espionage activities might be related to watching for things specifically related to him. Which seems to be why he has been one step ahead of the Inquisitor. Even if they have not been focused exclusively on Solas, which seems likely in view of what happened in Antiva (see my post above), he does seem to have been aware of those that are. If the Missing is anything to do by, I would also suggest that he has been gently nudging them in the direction he wishes them to take. Now that sounds a lot like Flemeth, so may be absorbing Mythal has had that effect on him. To my mind, there has to be more to him telling the Inquisitor his plans than simply he wanted them to know to enjoy life whilst they could. Solas doesn't tell people anything without good reason and I just don't see the reason he gave as being a valid one. It may be part of the reason, so in typical fashion, he wasn't actually lying, but there is another element to it that he hasn't divulged.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 18, 2023 10:18:11 GMT
Meanwhile my Inquisitor is living in Antiva. Can’t wait to see how they butcher that to make it match other Inquisitors. And Solas is only winning that so far because BioWare is beating the Inquisition with the Idiot stick to try to make him seem smart. They can’t actually make him seem smart, so they’re just making everyone more stupid so he looks smart in comparison. Meanwhile again the Inquisitor is explicitly established to constantly be surprising Solas. Oh boy. Instead of playing a story of someone trying to avenge their family who were killed by a friend, we’re going to play a story of someone who heard someone did something bad to another person’s family. I can’t wait. Never worry about some company writing fan fiction about your inquisitor. It’s not fan fiction. That’s literally what happens in the epilogue card if you romance her.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 18, 2023 10:23:19 GMT
Never worry about some company writing fan fiction about your inquisitor. It’s not fan fiction. That’s literally what happens in the epilogue card if you romance her. What I meant was "feel free to ignore whatever they may write in the future to contradict that". Sorry for not being clear enough.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 18, 2023 10:29:13 GMT
Meanwhile my Inquisitor is living in Antiva. Can’t wait to see how they butcher that to make it match other Inquisitors. Yes, if it wasn't enough that they have the Solas problem on their minds, they also have that of the Antaam invading Antiva. Now to be honest, that shouldn't just concern an Inquisitor who romanced Josephine. Even on a personal level they owe Josephine for all she did for them as their diplomat but there is also the matter of the Antaam breaking the Llomerryn Accord. Now if you handed the scaled down Inquisition over to the Divine as her private army, then that is where the Inquisition will be needed and you would think the Inquisitor would be useful in rallying people across the Freemarches on behalf of the Divine in readiness to defend their territory from further incursions. They would also have a vested interest in doing this if they disbanded the Inquisition since the Antaam breaking the Accord is still a threat to their security whatever they decided to do in retirement. Then once their defenses had been secured, launching an all out Exalted March on the Antaam utilising forces drawn from the western side of Thedas that was not immediately under threat and so could afford to spare the troops, principally Orlais but also Nevarra and possibly Ferelden too. So, unless the Inquisitor was someone who was pretty apathetic, with no motivation other than saving their own skin, I would actually expect to see them utilising their time in supporting the cause to repel the Antaam, whilst awaiting their agents out in the field to turn up news on Solas. (Actually, it is possible they will use the invasion of Antiva as a reason the Inquisitor is otherwise engaged.) Still has them abandoning her and her family. No doubt to be rescued by the new PC to fit all world states. That’s assuming it BioWare would bother with her at all. Can easily see them not involving her at all or even killing her off. As for the Antaam being the reason why the Inquisition can no longer be bothered to stop Solas, I feel that’s a stupid way to go about it. Sure have the public front do that if you keep it as the Divine’s honor guard, but if anything like Solas they’d use that to move their special pieces like the Inquisitor in the shadows. It’s why it’d work best for the new PC to be dealing with all that while if they do do dual protagonists the Inquisitor would be doing more clandestine missions going after Solas.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 18, 2023 10:34:39 GMT
It’s not fan fiction. That’s literally what happens in the epilogue card if you romance her. What I meant was "feel free to ignore whatever they may write in the future to contradict that". Sorry for not being clear enough. Ah I see. My apologies as well for the misunderstanding. Unfortunately what they do will be treated as canon so can’t wave that away. Just hope they actually put in some effort and have the situation change whether you romanced her or not. Same with if you romanced Dorian or anyone else who will appear.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 18, 2023 14:25:52 GMT
Still has them abandoning her and her family. Not necessarily abandoning so much as getting the forces they need to help them. I imagine an Inquisitor who was with them when the Antaam struck would have persuaded them to flee to a safer location whilst the situation was dealt with. Antiva has no standing army and the Crows seem to be fairly ineffective, just doing the odd bit of guerilla warfare to hamper the Antaam, possibly whilst awaiting the Divine to mobilise an army from outside the country. The lack of a standing army was presumably why the country was so quickly overrun the last time the Antaam was mobilised against them in the Steel Age. The only person who was able to resist them then was Yavana and her dragons; thanks to Alistair she is no longer an option, which could be why the Antaam felt bold enough to invade again. This is why it would make no sense for the Inquisitor to remain there but go seeking help elsewhere. As for the Antaam being the reason why the Inquisition can no longer be bothered to stop Solas, I didn't say they couldn't be bother to stop him but, if the trail has gone cold, they might as well utilise their time productively whilst awaiting intelligence from agents acting on their behalf. Since they have a base in Kirkwall, that is as good a place as any to act as a hub for receiving news on Solas and direct the mustering of forces in the Freemarches. It would at least be something logical to explain why initially they are not involved in the narrative but simply sending messages to the new PC (if appropriate) or not heard from at all because the PC's story doesn't involve Fen'Harel to begin with. They might also explain their apparent focus elsewhere as a feint on their part to attempt to fool Solas that they have given up the chase (although I wouldn't buy that if I was Solas, so it would be a pretty lame excuse if they did).
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 18, 2023 16:09:08 GMT
I disagree with the part about needing to play past games. I could've worded that better. You definitely don't need to play past games, but it definitely helps. But basically, the bottom line is its all Corypheus's fault. If it wasn't for him, DAI and DAD would've been in one game, with one PC, and we wouldn't be in this mess at all. Figures.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 18, 2023 16:46:24 GMT
But isn't this already inevitable, from a story perspective? I see that as a sort of sunk-cost fallacy approach to storytelling. "We already kinda screwed up DAI by not being focused and missing half the story" is not necessarily a reason to say "therefore, we need to focus on fixing DAI in the next game" rather than "so we'll let that be relegated to something on the side and focus on the name game as its own story, and make it the best we can". Granted, from the game's working title we know they are, in fact, gonna sink on that sunk cost, but the harder they sink, the less the game will be worthwhile.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jun 18, 2023 20:33:17 GMT
I see that as a sort of sunk-cost fallacy approach to storytelling. "We already kinda screwed up DAI by not being focused and missing half the story" is not necessarily a reason to say "therefore, we need to focus on fixing DAI in the next game" rather than "so we'll let that be relegated to something on the side and focus on the name game as its own story, and make it the best we can". Granted, from the game's working title we know they are, in fact, gonna sink on that sunk cost, but the harder they sink, the less the game will be worthwhile. How is telling the rest of the story "fixing" the first part of the story? I don't see how that follows. And how do we know that the Solas/Veil plotline isn't "the name game", especially given what the lore reveals in Trespasser imply about the role of dragons in the areas the Solas/Veil plot is going to touch upon (i.e. the Evanuris, the Black City, the Old God dragons)? The assumptions you're making here appear to be of fairly dubious justification. (and realistically, how often do major video game developers do something like what you're suggesting, i.e. decided to abandon their follow-up/conclusion to a critically and commercially successful previous iteration in a franchise in favor of leaving the existing plot/story unresolved and going in a completely new direction? I certainly can't think of any examples, can you? And what possible motivation could Bioware have to do that in this instance?)
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Post by colfoley on Jun 19, 2023 1:26:32 GMT
But isn't this already inevitable, from a story perspective? I see that as a sort of sunk-cost fallacy approach to storytelling. "We already kinda screwed up DAI by not being focused and missing half the story" is not necessarily a reason to say "therefore, we need to focus on fixing DAI in the next game" rather than "so we'll let that be relegated to something on the side and focus on the name game as its own story, and make it the best we can". Granted, from the game's working title we know they are, in fact, gonna sink on that sunk cost, but the harder they sink, the less the game will be worthwhile. I can't emphasize this enough but we should be treating this supposed split in Inquisition's Narrative as a rumor, maybe a strong one, but to the best of my knowledge they didn't elaborate on what the split would entail. In terms of narrative, setting, gameplay elements, how much of the game would be devoted to one antagonist or the next. All we have is our own guess work on exactly what this means and since it didn't happen, and since BioWare is in the business of making professional AAA video games, we can generally assume they had their reasons. From there though I think its a rather significant stretch to assume either a sunk cost fallancy or that Inquisition needs Dreadwolf to 'fix' its story. Afterall in terms of the series Inquisition is by far and away my favorite, favorite BioWare game, favorite game...and while the general consensus on that game may not exactly be that lofty it still is largely considered to be BioWare's last major success from both a critical and financial standpoint. Yes, a lot of people have their individual gripes with the game but to call its narrative a failure is...an interesting stretch. Dreadwolf isn't going to fix Inquisition's story but expand on it, the way all sequals do. Or, by this logic, did Empire Strikes Back fix A New Hope? (Interesting example to since there is some of the same stuff going on, Tarkin was the villain in the first one, Vader was kind of a side hustle, and then we hadn't even been introduced to the Emperor yet). Is Mass Effect 3 'fixing' the story of Mass Effect 2? Is Dragon Age 2 fixing the story of Origins? Is Season 2 of Arrow fixing the story of season 1? Maybe in some small part, but the point in any continuing serialized fiction is to build on what came before while foreshadowing what comes next. And as I said to, at least in my opinion, I can't see how the game would've worked with two being combined into one. It might've solved a few issues but having two big bads in the same game sounds like a recipe for complication, not the least of which is how do you account for a protagonist which would be able to match the villainious archetype of two very different types of villains.
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