inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
26,365
themikefest
15,659
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
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Post by themikefest on Jun 24, 2023 21:31:25 GMT
So 2 main characters? How would that work? Would there be two character creator screens to customize them? I'm sure some, as well as myself, would have both looking exactly the same. I know in DAI, I had Hawke look exactly like my Inq a couple of times.
With two, that means 2 va's for each? Or would they use the same va's for both? Doubtful. Let's assume Ing comes back as one of the main characters. That means the 4 va's from DAI return. Would need two other va's for the other main character?
Would there be equal content for both? Would there be two sets of companions? Maybe on one end of the map one character does whatever while the other is on the other side of the map doing whatever. Near the end of the game, both meet each other to face Solas. At that point, the player choose's one while the other can be in a support role.
I don't see it happening. At least for this game. Maybe in a future DA game. For the poll, I chose no.
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185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2023 22:58:50 GMT
So 2 main characters? How would that work? Would there be two character creator screens to customize them? I'm sure some, as well as myself, would have both looking exactly the same. I know in DAI, I had Hawke look exactly like my Inq a couple of times. With two, that means 2 va's for each? Or would they use the same va's for both? Doubtful. Let's assume Ing comes back as one of the main characters. That means the 4 va's from DAI return. Would need two other va's for the other main character? Would there be equal content for both? Would there be two sets of companions? Maybe on one end of the map one character does whatever while the other is on the other side of the map doing whatever. Near the end of the game, both meet each other to face Solas. At that point, the player choose's one while the other can be in a support role. I don't see it happening. At least for this game. Maybe in a future DA game. For the poll, I chose no. Yes there would be two character creator screens. Not back to back, but like DAI the second appears when the character does. They’ll have to do this anyway even if the Inquisitor is a NPC. As for the two looking alike, that’s up to the individual player. They’ll bring back the four VAs for Inquisitor (again, will be doing this anyway if they appear as NPC) and then the new ones for the new PC. Not as hard as you think, since unless it is a celebrity paying voice actors is not a large chunk of the budget. While what you described would be dream scenario, no they probably won’t do that. The new PC would get the vast majority of the content while the Inquisitor gets some. As or companions, Inquisitor would be limited to probably just a few squadmates that make a balanced team. Most likely established DAI characters. Meanwhile the new PC would be like normal, getting a larger group for their team. As for choosing at the very end who would lead the charge, that’s be ideal and don’t see why they couldn’t. If they don’t do it for this game, don’t see why they’ll ever do it. Unless they make this mistake again of connecting an old PC to a new plot.
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1398
0
4,633
Absafraginlootly
"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
1,666
September 2016
absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 24, 2023 23:59:27 GMT
So 2 main characters? How would that work? Would there be two character creator screens to customize them? I'm sure some, as well as myself, would have both looking exactly the same. I know in DAI, I had Hawke look exactly like my Inq a couple of times. With two, that means 2 va's for each? Or would they use the same va's for both? Doubtful. Let's assume Ing comes back as one of the main characters. That means the 4 va's from DAI return. Would need two other va's for the other main character? Would there be equal content for both? Would there be two sets of companions? Maybe on one end of the map one character does whatever while the other is on the other side of the map doing whatever. Near the end of the game, both meet each other to face Solas. At that point, the player choose's one while the other can be in a support role. I don't see it happening. At least for this game. Maybe in a future DA game. For the poll, I chose no. People didn't have trouble creating their twin in the same CC as their Ryder in Andromeda. And I'd say one or two solo missions is more likely than half the game with their own party members. I don't think it would be prohibitively expensive or difficult for the inquisitor to get a playable mission like the Ryder twin got in MEA. And as Hanako said we'd need a second cc and returning voice actors for an npc inquisitor anyways, just as they did with Hawke.
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7671
0
1,195
NotN7
1,165
Apr 15, 2017 17:34:16 GMT
April 2017
notn7
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by NotN7 on Jun 25, 2023 0:33:40 GMT
My mind set runs along the line of importing the old inquis or world state and a cc creator for the new inquis. but hey that's me what do I know its hard enough to remember what I did yesterday. let alone ten years ago.
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♨ Retired
24
0
26,365
themikefest
15,659
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
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Post by themikefest on Jun 25, 2023 2:08:42 GMT
. I don't think it would be prohibitively expensive or difficult for the inquisitor to get a playable mission like the Ryder twin got in MEA. Would people be ok if their inq got a 5 minute quest similar to what twin little ryder got? Also twin little ryder got a fair amount of dialogue throughout the game. Would Inq have that? Inq does have 4 va's. Would new players ask why the inq has 4 va's but the other one only has two, if that happens? They might want the option like they have for the inq.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 25, 2023 8:03:53 GMT
As for the Well of Sorrows, that one I don’t really see coming into play. You already noted Mythal sending out that wisp which I think undid the constraints of the geas while letting the person keep the benefits. Well, they are at least going to have to confirm that or otherwise explain what was going on there. Solas was so upset if the Inquisitor drinks because "everything you do from now on, whether you know it or not, is for her", would suggest that he didn't imagine Mythal surrendering such a hold over the person. He was also not happy about Morrigan drinking, not because he cared about her being enslaved, but because he didn't want her having access to the information. They made such a big deal over the decision, it would be disappointing if that action of Flemeth was all that was required to free you and, apart from the dragon controlling/shapeshifting ability, insight into the relationship between Cory and his dragon, and a bit of lore, the knowledge of the well was never a factor again. Plus for all his talk of freedom I don’t think Solas would use it otherwise he would be the same as the Evanuris. Though if it does come into play, I easily see a quest undoing it. I suppose you could argue that in absorbing Mythal he was nullifying the geas, since he never intended using it, but I do find the whole thing is an unresolved plot thread. Also, I really don't think Solas really appreciates irony when it comes to his behaviour compared with the Evanuris. After all, he maintains he took his action in ancient times because otherwise the Evanuris would have destroyed the world, yet admits it was his action which fundamentally altered reality, thus destroying the "world of the elves", and that he now intended reversing this, regardless of the consequences for others. That sounds like the arrogant entitlement of a god to me and just the sort of attitude displayed by the Evanuris. It also has nothing to do with him absorbing Mythal, since he took his action in the past without her and his original plan in the present, before it went wrong, was done unilaterally as well. For all his denial of being a god and criticism of the others, his behaviour is consistent with both how the Dalish represent him and his status of a deity. So, I really don't think his moral scruples would prevent him from controlling the Well drinker if it was in his interests. I suppose that perhaps they are going to distinguish between the attitudes/actions of Solas and those of Fen'Harel. So, Solas is the champion of freedom who would never willingly control the mind of another but his alter ego, Fen'Harel, has no such scruples. It is Solas who keeps apologising to the Inquisitor and promised Varric he would do his best to minimise the adverse effects of his plan, whereas Fen'Harel is the one who will destroy anyone who gets in his way. Depending on his relationship with the Inquisitor, it may well be Solas who gives them a clue as to how to break the geas (an optional quest that will not arise if he hates their guts may be), but Fen'Harel will try to prevent you achieving this. I definitely think they are going to explore the duality of his persona and how what was originally a title he embraced to intimidate his enemies, gradually started to subsume his personal identity. It may even be that when the Inquisitor declares they are going to "save our friend from himself" that is actually more literal than they realised at the time. The only way to "redeem" him is to get him to acknowledge and reject the Dread Wolf that is controlling him. Naturally, if the Inquisitor isn't bothered about saving him, they will just destroy them both. I'm still convinced that ultimately we will have to confront the Dread Wolf in the Fade but perhaps it will be possible to weaken it by essentially have Solas take our side against it. Alternatively, on the other path, we will have discovered his true name, as hinted by Rasaan, and that is how we will weaken him.
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Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2023 22:04:06 GMT
As for the Well of Sorrows, that one I don’t really see coming into play. You already noted Mythal sending out that wisp which I think undid the constraints of the geas while letting the person keep the benefits. Well, they are at least going to have to confirm that or otherwise explain what was going on there. Solas was so upset if the Inquisitor drinks because "everything you do from now on, whether you know it or not, is for her", would suggest that he didn't imagine Mythal surrendering such a hold over the person. He was also not happy about Morrigan drinking, not because he cared about her being enslaved, but because he didn't want her having access to the information. They made such a big deal over the decision, it would be disappointing if that action of Flemeth was all that was required to free you and, apart from the dragon controlling/shapeshifting ability, insight into the relationship between Cory and his dragon, and a bit of lore, the knowledge of the well was never a factor again. Plus for all his talk of freedom I don’t think Solas would use it otherwise he would be the same as the Evanuris. Though if it does come into play, I easily see a quest undoing it. I suppose you could argue that in absorbing Mythal he was nullifying the geas, since he never intended using it, but I do find the whole thing is an unresolved plot thread. Also, I really don't think Solas really appreciates irony when it comes to his behaviour compared with the Evanuris. After all, he maintains he took his action in ancient times because otherwise the Evanuris would have destroyed the world, yet admits it was his action which fundamentally altered reality, thus destroying the "world of the elves", and that he now intended reversing this, regardless of the consequences for others. That sounds like the arrogant entitlement of a god to me and just the sort of attitude displayed by the Evanuris. It also has nothing to do with him absorbing Mythal, since he took his action in the past without her and his original plan in the present, before it went wrong, was done unilaterally as well. For all his denial of being a god and criticism of the others, his behaviour is consistent with both how the Dalish represent him and his status of a deity. So, I really don't think his moral scruples would prevent him from controlling the Well drinker if it was in his interests. I suppose that perhaps they are going to distinguish between the attitudes/actions of Solas and those of Fen'Harel. So, Solas is the champion of freedom who would never willingly control the mind of another but his alter ego, Fen'Harel, has no such scruples. It is Solas who keeps apologising to the Inquisitor and promised Varric he would do his best to minimise the adverse effects of his plan, whereas Fen'Harel is the one who will destroy anyone who gets in his way. Depending on his relationship with the Inquisitor, it may well be Solas who gives them a clue as to how to break the geas (an optional quest that will not arise if he hates their guts may be), but Fen'Harel will try to prevent you achieving this. I definitely think they are going to explore the duality of his persona and how what was originally a title he embraced to intimidate his enemies, gradually started to subsume his personal identity. It may even be that when the Inquisitor declares they are going to "save our friend from himself" that is actually more literal than they realised at the time. The only way to "redeem" him is to get him to acknowledge and reject the Dread Wolf that is controlling him. Naturally, if the Inquisitor isn't bothered about saving him, they will just destroy them both. I'm still convinced that ultimately we will have to confront the Dread Wolf in the Fade but perhaps it will be possible to weaken it by essentially have Solas take our side against it. Alternatively, on the other path, we will have discovered his true name, as hinted by Rasaan, and that is how we will weaken him. This all sounds really fun and interesting. It’s too bad they won’t do this since we aren’t playing as the Inquisitor and a new PC doing all this makes no sense. And yeah Solas is definitely being a hypocrite. Then again I never trusted him when he said he wasn’t like them. He is the God of Deception after all. If he does use the Drinker against the new PC, we’ll I’m glad I let Morrigan drink since I can live with killing her.
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inherit
1587
0
1,772
Walter Black
1,290
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
walterblack
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Post by Walter Black on Jun 26, 2023 0:53:18 GMT
Yes, this. If we work with the Inquisition anyway then the entire "we need someone Solas doesn't know" reasoning lands flat on its arse because our connection with them will lead Solas right to us anyway. And in that case, why play a copy when the original still exists. Of course on the other hand I distinctly remember disbanding the Inquisition at the end of Trespasser and sending everyone home to a well deserved safe civilian life with a heart felt "thank you for your service, I will miss you all". DAD better doesn't reverse that decision. And I would greatly prefer to not have to work with the Qunari. Other than the problems I have with their entire philosophy there are also security concerns. If connection with the Inquisition can lead Solas to me, I'm sure that a connection to any other big faction can do the same thing. And I really want BioWare to make good on their trailer theme "what will you do when those in power do nothing". I mean, let's face it, the protagonist is going to have to do all the work anyway. As we see in the epilogue of Trespasser and throughout the expanded universe, even if you disband the Inquisition there is still a smaller, secret one going after Solas. I hate that line, simply because we have several friends who are in positions of power who would do things so then suddenly not doing anything is a huge bastardization of their characters. Powerful friends the Inquisitor has, but the new hero might not. While we might see bits of Antiva and the Anderfells, it still looks like the bulk of DA:DW will take place in Tevinter. At the start of the game and without player input, who really looks like they could create real and lasting changes in the Imperium? Despite his passion and knowledge, Dorian still lacks the resources and alliances, and the Lucerni are a fringe group. Divine Victoria would be met with hostility, if she's recognized at all. The monarchs of Ferelden and Orlais have enough to deal with in their own nations, as does Josephine in Antiva. By this time Alistair has too many outcomes, so I don't he'll be able to help with the Wardens. Just because someone would help, doesn't necessarily mean they are able to.
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Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 26, 2023 1:13:34 GMT
As we see in the epilogue of Trespasser and throughout the expanded universe, even if you disband the Inquisition there is still a smaller, secret one going after Solas. I hate that line, simply because we have several friends who are in positions of power who would do things so then suddenly not doing anything is a huge bastardization of their characters. Powerful friends the Inquisitor has, but the new hero might not. While we might see bits of Antiva and the Anderfells, it still looks like the bulk of DA:DW will take place in Tevinter. At the start of the game and without player input, who really looks like they could create real and lasting changes in the Imperium? Despite his passion and knowledge, Dorian still lacks the resources and alliances, and the Lucerni are a fringe group. Divine Victoria would be met with hostility, if she's recognized at all. The monarchs of Ferelden and Orlais have enough to deal with in their own nations, as does Josephine in Antiva. By this time Alistair has too many outcomes, so I don't he'll be able to help with the Wardens. Just because someone would help, doesn't necessarily mean they are able to. Except that’s not what Patrick in that video says. They say “What if the people in charge aren’t willing to address the issues.” That’s a lot different from them not being able to do anything like you said, but instead makes them more like the past people in power we see in BioWare games like the Shepard Trilogy or DAO/DAI where they ignored the big threat until they got what they wanted. Which for NPCs is fine I guess, but these are companions whom we know aren’t like that so this is very out of character for them. Hopefully it’s more like what you meant, where they want to help and address the issues but literally can’t for various reasons (like Josephine and Dorian can’t because their nation are being attacked by the Antaam), but I doubt it going by BioWare’s tract record.
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1033
0
Member is Online
Dec 12, 2024 10:26:33 GMT
37,526
colfoley
19,292
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Jun 26, 2023 1:49:07 GMT
Powerful friends the Inquisitor has, but the new hero might not. While we might see bits of Antiva and the Anderfells, it still looks like the bulk of DA:DW will take place in Tevinter. At the start of the game and without player input, who really looks like they could create real and lasting changes in the Imperium? Despite his passion and knowledge, Dorian still lacks the resources and alliances, and the Lucerni are a fringe group. Divine Victoria would be met with hostility, if she's recognized at all. The monarchs of Ferelden and Orlais have enough to deal with in their own nations, as does Josephine in Antiva. By this time Alistair has too many outcomes, so I don't he'll be able to help with the Wardens. Just because someone would help, doesn't necessarily mean they are able to. Except that’s not what Patrick in that video says. They say “What if the people in charge aren’t willing to address the issues.” That’s a lot different from them not being able to do anything like you said, but instead makes them more like the past people in power we see in BioWare games like the Shepard Trilogy or DAO/DAI where they ignored the big threat until they got what they wanted. Which for NPCs is fine I guess, but these are companions whom we know aren’t like that so this is very out of character for them. Hopefully it’s more like what you meant, where they want to help and address the issues but literally can’t for various reasons (like Josephine and Dorian can’t because their nation are being attacked by the Antaam), but I doubt it going by BioWare’s tract record. I do think that is pretty much what they are going to go for which kind of is something they did before...well at least with Origins. I think long term threat versus immediete threat is going to be a very BIG part of the game and one of its major themes that they will hopefully handle well. Because the Antaam is a threat. Whatever is happening in the Anderfels is a threat. And who knows what else will be going on in the game to further make things a threat...which the thing is A. its been almost a decade, as far as we know, since Tresspasser in universe so all of these threats could get baked into the background...it will be very hard to convince people of a threat that refuses to materialize its like... the Inquisitor says "the sky is falling" and then the sky never falls. And B. more to the point since these things are actual threats then they will have to be dealt with by everyone involved. As much as the Inquisition/ Dorian/ Divine Victoria may want to get involved its hard to not deal with a threat that's over there when there is a herd of rampaging Qunari kicking your door in.
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Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 26, 2023 2:47:57 GMT
Except that’s not what Patrick in that video says. They say “What if the people in charge aren’t willing to address the issues.” That’s a lot different from them not being able to do anything like you said, but instead makes them more like the past people in power we see in BioWare games like the Shepard Trilogy or DAO/DAI where they ignored the big threat until they got what they wanted. Which for NPCs is fine I guess, but these are companions whom we know aren’t like that so this is very out of character for them. Hopefully it’s more like what you meant, where they want to help and address the issues but literally can’t for various reasons (like Josephine and Dorian can’t because their nation are being attacked by the Antaam), but I doubt it going by BioWare’s tract record. I do think that is pretty much what they are going to go for which kind of is something they did before...well at least with Origins. I think long term threat versus immediete threat is going to be a very BIG part of the game and one of its major themes that they will hopefully handle well. Because the Antaam is a threat. Whatever is happening in the Anderfels is a threat. And who knows what else will be going on in the game to further make things a threat...which the thing is A. its been almost a decade, as far as we know, since Tresspasser in universe so all of these threats could get baked into the background...it will be very hard to convince people of a threat that refuses to materialize its like... the Inquisitor says "the sky is falling" and then the sky never falls. And B. more to the point since these things are actual threats then they will have to be dealt with by everyone involved. As much as the Inquisition/ Dorian/ Divine Victoria may want to get involved its hard to not deal with a threat that's over there when there is a herd of rampaging Qunari kicking your door in. And you just said what I’m afraid they’re going to do. Most people focusing on the other things while dismissing the warnings about Solas I completely get and don’t hold against them. They don’t know any better. It’s our companions who do know but then dismissing or dropping that threat that I have a problem with. To use Mass Effect as an example, I hate how Wrex won’t help against the Reapers until the Genophage is cured. He knows that they’re the bigger threat but still won’t help. Now add to that what you said where it would be like him not even thinking the Reapers are going to be a threat. That’s what I’m worried is going to happen with our DAI cast, especially since like I noted they’ve done that before. So I hope for them it’s a lot more like Legion (who wanted to help but literally couldn’t since his people were trapped) than Wrex.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 26, 2023 8:40:05 GMT
This all sounds really fun and interesting. It’s too bad they won’t do this since we aren’t playing as the Inquisitor and a new PC doing all this makes no sense. I think it could be made to work for a new PC, certainly the bit about Solas being a split personality and having to find a way to defeat the Dread Wolf that is steadily growing in power, overwhelming his alter ego outside the Fade. There have been a lot of hints through the artwork that this is the case. Think of the difference in the tarot cards depending on whether he is romanced or not and then that image in the 2018 trailer. Whilst we are able to interact with Solas in the Fade in DAI, I think the ability to do so depends on our standing with him and I suspect it is a case of him entering our dreams rather than the reverse, which he is only prepared to do if he approves of the Inquisitor. The closer his relationship to the Inquisitor, the weaker the Dread Wolf becomes, at least in the short term. However, once he abandons them, the Dread Wolf persona starts to reassert itself. Certainly, it is a terrifying Wolf/Dragon hybrid that confronts the Mortalitasi mages in TN. Depending on how they plan on using the Inquisitor, they could still have a bearing on the outcome, even if it is only with regard to choices we already made. For example, I imagine that is would be virtually impossible to get Solas to reject Fen'Harel if the Inquisitor was always hostile towards him, because that will have ensured the Dread Wolf has already pretty much subsumed the other and confirmed him in his mistrust of everyone. However, it might be possible if he had a generally good relationship with the Inquisitor, even if it soured a bit on the Inquisitor's side at the end of Trepasser. However, if they were going to use a dual protagonist, it might well be that it is the research into the origins of Solas and undermining the Dread Wolf that the Inquisitor is going to be responsible for. Whether their research leads them into finally confronting him, whether their actions simply weaken him so our new hero has a better chance against him or whether they simply pass on the information to the new hero to use as they see fit, it would be a way of integrating our old hero into the story in a satisfying way that makes sense in the narrative. Who better than the Inquisitor, who already knows Solas personally, to conduct such research in secret? Meanwhile, the new hero is doing the leg work in physically tracking him down.
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inherit
Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 26, 2023 9:09:48 GMT
This all sounds really fun and interesting. It’s too bad they won’t do this since we aren’t playing as the Inquisitor and a new PC doing all this makes no sense. I think it could be made to work for a new PC, certainly the bit about Solas being a split personality and having to find a way to defeat the Dread Wolf that is steadily growing in power, overwhelming his alter ego outside the Fade. There have been a lot of hints through the artwork that this is the case. Think of the difference in the tarot cards depending on whether he is romanced or not and then that image in the 2018 trailer. Whilst we are able to interact with Solas in the Fade in DAI, I think the ability to do so depends on our standing with him and I suspect it is a case of him entering our dreams rather than the reverse, which he is only prepared to do if he approves of the Inquisitor. The closer his relationship to the Inquisitor, the weaker the Dread Wolf becomes, at least in the short term. However, once he abandons them, the Dread Wolf persona starts to reassert itself. Certainly, it is a terrifying Wolf/Dragon hybrid that confronts the Mortalitasi mages in TN. Depending on how they plan on using the Inquisitor, they could still have a bearing on the outcome, even if it is only with regard to choices we already made. For example, I imagine that is would be virtually impossible to get Solas to reject Fen'Harel if the Inquisitor was always hostile towards him, because that will have ensured the Dread Wolf has already pretty much subsumed the other and confirmed him in his mistrust of everyone. However, it might be possible if he had a generally good relationship with the Inquisitor, even if it soured a bit on the Inquisitor's side at the end of Trepasser. However, if they were going to use a dual protagonist, it might well be that it is the research into the origins of Solas and undermining the Dread Wolf that the Inquisitor is going to be responsible for. Whether their research leads them into finally confronting him, whether their actions simply weaken him so our new hero has a better chance against him or whether they simply pass on the information to the new hero to use as they see fit, it would be a way of integrating our old hero into the story in a satisfying way that makes sense in the narrative. Who better than the Inquisitor, who already knows Solas personally, to conduct such research in secret? Meanwhile, the new hero is doing the leg work in physically tracking him down. But as you said, so much of this idea hinges on Solas’s relationship with the Inquisitor. Solas has no such relationship with the new PC, so why would he give a single shit about anything they have to say or do? At best they’ll be disregarded, and at worst they’ll be seen as a threat and killed on sight. So no, none of those options with a new PC sound satisfying or make sense for the narrative.
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inherit
410
0
3,528
Sartoz
6,924
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 26, 2023 13:01:53 GMT
Dual Protagonists?
You're kidding right? No way I say. Why? Added cost for no benefit to Bio. No other explanation is necessary.
(◔‿◔) ______________________ ==================
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inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 26, 2023 15:35:37 GMT
But as you said, so much of this idea hinges on Solas’s relationship with the Inquisitor. Solas has no such relationship with the new PC, so why would he give a single shit about anything they have to say or do? I am specifically talking about if the writers run with the idea that Fen'Harel is no longer just a title he found useful to play on when his enemies started using it about him, but has become more integrated with his personal identity. Breaking his link with this alter ego could be the way to weaken him. The personal element of the Inquisitor's involvement in this is that they know and can spot something that might be relevant that the new hero might miss or dismiss as not important. They then pass this information on to the new hero. Then factor in previous decisions and the relationship the Inquisitor had with Solas that are recorded in the Keep and these can combine to give you the options to use on Solas. To give an example. Rasaan is looking for his true name. Why is this important? Perhaps because by getting back to his original identity is key to separating him from the Dread Wolf persona that only exists in the Fade but is the true source of his power there. Now the default option is simply to undermine him and remove the protection of the Dread Wolf, so the new hero is able to kill Solas in the Waking World, although a further confrontation with the Dread Wolf may still be necessary, for which the new hero on this option has been given some specific protection against the Wolf. However, the alternative option, for those who want to save Solas, is that after breaking the link with the Dread Wolf, the Inquisitor has provided some further detail that the new hero can use to remind him of his former ally/lover, which Solas will respond to. In this case, he might offer to enter the Fade with you in order to provide the protection whilst you defeat the Wolf but this is on the basis of the memory you have given him of the Inquisitor, not his feelings for the new hero. I hope that makes sense. I realise I am probably clutching at straws and they will not come up with anything this complicated to justify honouring the Inquisitors part in this story or give them a role in DA:D beyond a vague off screen presence and references in conversation but, as I've said above, the hints have been there about the split personality and an identity that predated Solas, so I live in hope.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 26, 2023 21:10:16 GMT
But as you said, so much of this idea hinges on Solas’s relationship with the Inquisitor. Solas has no such relationship with the new PC, so why would he give a single shit about anything they have to say or do? I am specifically talking about if the writers run with the idea that Fen'Harel is no longer just a title he found useful to play on when his enemies started using it about him, but has become more integrated with his personal identity. Breaking his link with this alter ego could be the way to weaken him. The personal element of the Inquisitor's involvement in this is that they know and can spot something that might be relevant that the new hero might miss or dismiss as not important. They then pass this information on to the new hero. Then factor in previous decisions and the relationship the Inquisitor had with Solas that are recorded in the Keep and these can combine to give you the options to use on Solas. To give an example. Rasaan is looking for his true name. Why is this important? Perhaps because by getting back to his original identity is key to separating him from the Dread Wolf persona that only exists in the Fade but is the true source of his power there. Now the default option is simply to undermine him and remove the protection of the Dread Wolf, so the new hero is able to kill Solas in the Waking World, although a further confrontation with the Dread Wolf may still be necessary, for which the new hero on this option has been given some specific protection against the Wolf. However, the alternative option, for those who want to save Solas, is that after breaking the link with the Dread Wolf, the Inquisitor has provided some further detail that the new hero can use to remind him of his former ally/lover, which Solas will respond to. In this case, he might offer to enter the Fade with you in order to provide the protection whilst you defeat the Wolf but this is on the basis of the memory you have given him of the Inquisitor, not his feelings for the new hero. I hope that makes sense. I realise I am probably clutching at straws and they will not come up with anything this complicated to justify honouring the Inquisitors part in this story or give them a role in DA:D beyond a vague off screen presence and references in conversation but, as I've said above, the hints have been there about the split personality and an identity that predated Solas, so I live in hope. But as I said, even with those past events those connections were made with the Inquisitor. Solas has no such connections to the new PC, so even if the new PC uses that against Solas he won’t care because he feels nothing towards them. Would you give up your dream if some stranger shows up and tries reminding you of all the things you and someone else had? Most likely not, especially someone as stubborn as Solas. If the Inquisitor couldn’t use that to leverage Solas out of his decision in Trespasser, new PC definitely won’t be able to now that he’s at the cusp of it. And if the Inquisitor severs the connection like you discuss, that’s a Deus Ex Machima which isn’t really ideal either. Yeah I doubt BioWare is going to put any serious effort into it. Either like you said there will be some references in conversations with people connected to them, like Varric and Harding, or they at most will appear in a quest line as a NPC that will match how some people played them while being complete bastardizations for others only to then run off to be a useless bum again once that quest line is done.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2023 8:58:41 GMT
Yeah I doubt BioWare is going to put any serious effort into it. Either like you said there will be some references in conversations with people connected to them, like Varric and Harding, or they at most will appear in a quest line as a NPC Something that I believe has been raised in other threads and that is the possibility that Solas won't turn out to be the main threat at all, or at least not the one our new hero gets involved dealing with. Remember this caption in the book celebrating Bioware in the section about the next game: " The Evil Gods have Thedas in their sights and only heroes can stop them. The shadows of the past stir, and new heroes must rise to fight them." Now I suppose you could argue that Solas qualifies as an "evil god" but there did seem to be a hint there that some other major threat is going to emerge that will become the focus of our new hero, at least initially, and then perhaps it is only in the course of dealing with them that they discover about Solas, when they combine forces with the Inquisitor. I suppose a lot depends on when that cinematic they released last year appears in the game. If it is part of the introduction, then Solas is going to be their focus from the beginning, but it could come later, as a brief narrative by Varric to explain the new (from the hero's perspective) threat. The cinematic appeared to show some sort of connection between the Veil, a set of seven gods and the two figures in his mural in the 2020 trailer. Why were they painted upside down? Was that symbolic of their corruption by the taint or the fact they were in opposition to him, or both? Certainly the figure on the left seemed to have some connection, based on the iconography he uses, with the figure in the picture with that caption. Also, what is the significance of the golden disc that frames their heads and that of the Solas as the Dread Wolf in the cinematic?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 27, 2023 9:10:04 GMT
Yeah I doubt BioWare is going to put any serious effort into it. Either like you said there will be some references in conversations with people connected to them, like Varric and Harding, or they at most will appear in a quest line as a NPC Something that I believe has been raised in other threads and that is the possibility that Solas won't turn out to be the main threat at all, or at least not the one our new hero gets involved dealing with. Remember this caption in the book celebrating Bioware in the section about the next game: " The Evil Gods have Thedas in their sights and only heroes can stop them. The shadows of the past stir, and new heroes must rise to fight them." Now I suppose you could argue that Solas qualifies as an "evil god" but there did seem to be a hint there that some other major threat is going to emerge that will become the focus of our new hero, at least initially, and then perhaps it is only in the course of dealing with them that they discover about Solas, when they combine forces with the Inquisitor. I suppose a lot depends on when that cinematic they released last year appears in the game. If it is part of the introduction, then Solas is going to be their focus from the beginning, but it could come later, as a brief narrative by Varric to explain the new (from the hero's perspective) threat. The cinematic appeared to show some sort of connection between the Veil, a set of seven gods and the two figures in his mural in the 2020 trailer. Why were they painted upside down? Was that symbolic of their corruption by the taint or the fact they were in opposition to him, or both? Certainly the figure on the left seemed to have some connection, based on the iconography he uses, with the figure in the picture with that caption. Oh Solas is without question an evil “god”. Every negative thing the Dalish have said about him is true. He has a god complex and is plotting global genocide so can’t get more evil than that. If he does turn out to not be the main focus, while part of me would laugh due to how much they’ve been pushing him this past decade, another part of me would be fuming since it’s be them once again taking this huge thing they spent a lot of time building up just to end up being a side plot (if you’re going to ruin my favorite game for this plot, at least make it front and center). I’m certain there will be other major threats, but there’s nothing worse than genocide. But I doubt he’ll be a side plot or not the main threat. The game is named after him after all.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2023 15:45:07 GMT
But I doubt he’ll be a side plot or not the main threat. The game is named after him after all. I don't think a side plot so much as it may take a while for the new hero to be aware of him. It is also possible that his tinkering with the Veil, or some other party like the Venatori misusing red lyrium, allows the release of those two figures earlier than Solas was planning on (assuming they are his enemies). This might actually delay his ritual, allowing the various factions working against him a bit of breathing space, but also presenting them with a distraction from the business of hunting him down. He has a god complex and is plotting global genocide so can’t get more evil than that. Yet, I get the feeling that PW in particular regrets making him that evil. First, we had him trying to maintain in TN that his action is going to save this world, not just restore his old one. Actually, that sounds a lot like one of the excuses he gave for his action against the Evanuris, so may be he was just trying to justify his action to himself. However, then we have his message to Varric in the Missing saying he doesn't want to be another of his villains and he is going to do his best to limit the damage. I suppose it is possible to argue he is just doing this to get them to back off and rather than simply petrify Varric and Harding, he is giving them a chance to avoid this. That seems to fly in the face of his behaviour towards those who antagonised him in the past. He had known Felassan far longer than Varric and Harding, whilst Flemeth/Mythal called him "old friend", yet he had no mercy in killing one and absorbing the other. So, that is why I think PW, and the team generally who are invested in Solas, are trying to play down his single minded determination to proceed with his plan. Just as you say that the new hero has no connection with Solas to make him respect their opinion, they have no reason to think of him as anything but an evil god that needs both stopping and being prevented from attempting the same in the future. Whilst the cinematic has Varric giving the two perspectives on his action "depending on your point of view", actually the only people who might have that differing viewpoint are the Inquisitor and some members of the old team. Our new hero, if they have heard of Fen'Harel at all, is likely to be the Dalish version, so their reaction to Varric would be "he tricked you properly didn't he?". The game is named after him after all. I rather suspect there is going to be a twist to that too. It is somewhat odd that the game is named after the antagonist and I find it fishy that he features so prominently in any promotional trailers thus far, particularly as the name is only going to be significant to established players. The cynic in me imagines some sort of bait and switch happening but, as with a lot of my theories, it may well be that I am giving the writers too much credit for inventiveness and potential intricacies in the plot. As you say, it could simply be that Dreadwolf is about our conflict with the Dread Wolf.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 27, 2023 18:23:39 GMT
I’ve got a distinct feeling i’m going to be very annoyed if as I suspect weekes tries to whitewash solas.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 27, 2023 19:14:51 GMT
But I doubt he’ll be a side plot or not the main threat. The game is named after him after all. I don't think a side plot so much as it may take a while for the new hero to be aware of him. It is also possible that his tinkering with the Veil, or some other party like the Venatori misusing red lyrium, allows the release of those two figures earlier than Solas was planning on (assuming they are his enemies). This might actually delay his ritual, allowing the various factions working against him a bit of breathing space, but also presenting them with a distraction from the business of hunting him down. He has a god complex and is plotting global genocide so can’t get more evil than that. Yet, I get the feeling that PW in particular regrets making him that evil. First, we had him trying to maintain in TN that his action is going to save this world, not just restore his old one. Actually, that sounds a lot like one of the excuses he gave for his action against the Evanuris, so may be he was just trying to justify his action to himself. However, then we have his message to Varric in the Missing saying he doesn't want to be another of his villains and he is going to do his best to limit the damage. I suppose it is possible to argue he is just doing this to get them to back off and rather than simply petrify Varric and Harding, he is giving them a chance to avoid this. That seems to fly in the face of his behaviour towards those who antagonised him in the past. He had known Felassan far longer than Varric and Harding, whilst Flemeth/Mythal called him "old friend", yet he had no mercy in killing one and absorbing the other. So, that is why I think PW, and the team generally who are invested in Solas, are trying to play down his single minded determination to proceed with his plan. Just as you say that the new hero has no connection with Solas to make him respect their opinion, they have no reason to think of him as anything but an evil god that needs both stopping and being prevented from attempting the same in the future. Whilst the cinematic has Varric giving the two perspectives on his action "depending on your point of view", actually the only people who might have that differing viewpoint are the Inquisitor and some members of the old team. Our new hero, if they have heard of Fen'Harel at all, is likely to be the Dalish version, so their reaction to Varric would be "he tricked you properly didn't he?". The game is named after him after all. I rather suspect there is going to be a twist to that too. It is somewhat odd that the game is named after the antagonist and I find it fishy that he features so prominently in any promotional trailers thus far, particularly as the name is only going to be significant to established players. The cynic in me imagines some sort of bait and switch happening but, as with a lot of my theories, it may well be that I am giving the writers too much credit for inventiveness and potential intricacies in the plot. As you say, it could simply be that Dreadwolf is about our conflict with the Dread Wolf. I do agree I don’t think we’ll immediately know about his actions like we did with Corypheus’s in DAI or the Blight in DAO. I can see it more like the Reapers in ME1, where at first what we’re involved in while potentially big we don’t realize how big until a little later in the story. And definitely see parts of his plan going wrong (because they always do) like some if not all of the Evanuris being released or maybe causing some sideplots like the Red Lyrium growth they teased. Regarding this backtracking with his character, those things you mentioned still fit. His comments in TN and the Missing are him definitely him justifying it to himself. He thinks the deaths of all these people are necessary to save the world, similar to how the Reapers saw the harvests as necessary to preserve life overall seeing themselves as like a fire that clears a forest so new life can grow instead of all life eventually being choked out. Yet he is trying to do it in a way where they won’t feel anything this not be a villain like in Varric’s stories. He says this in Trespasser “If they must die, I’d prefer they die in comfort.” while his actions in that were to give the people as much peace as possible at the time. Him not petrifying Varric and Harding and instead giving that as a warning for them to back off I think is both him sending a message like he did with Charter but also them being protected by plot armor because they’ll be involved in the next game. Him killing Felassan while sparing them I think is for two reasons. First is he saw that as a betrayal because Felassan despite being an ancient elf like him disagreed with his genocide plan. Could also be because of that Felassan might have given us a way to defeat him. Meanwhile with Varric and Harding it’s just them trying not to die so there’s no betrayal there. Second is with Felassan that was when Solas first woke up so still saw the modern races as not even people, while with the Missing that was after his year with the Inquisition where he learned he was wrong. Especially if befriended, which it seems will be the default world state they’re using. As for Mythal, we don’t fully know know what happens to the other party if they are assimilated so she might still dwell within him like she did with Flemeth. Maybe becoming a merged identity, like Mythal did with Flemeth or Anders and Justice becoming Vengeance. All this said I also absolutely agree they are trying to make him more morally grey than he is. And with the new hero, I do hope we get to call Varric and Harding out for being idiots in trying to defend him. Just hope if we choose Stop instead of Redeem they don’t force the characters to be monsters. I think the name is just because it’s the story that will be dealing with him and the many twists and revelations his plot will bring to Thedas. There was no twist with Origins, Inquisition, or Andromeda being named those things, so I think the same is true for this.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 27, 2023 19:39:57 GMT
There was no twist with Origins, Inquisition, or Andromeda being named those things, so I think the same is true for this. They weren't named after the antagonist though. Origins, as the name suggested, was giving us an introduction to Thedas as a setting and various nations, factions and characters within it. Inquisition was about the founding, development and diminishing/disbanding of that organisation, which was associated with our protagonist. Andromeda (which I haven't played) so far as I am aware, is named for the galaxy it takes place in, so distinguishing it as a setting from the Milky Way in which Mass Effect is set. The same is true of older games in the Bioware back library: Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire. It is highly unusual for them to name a game after the antagonist we will be confronting in the game (although they have done this with DLC), implying he and not the setting or our PC is the true focus of the game. Unless, it is connected to the fact that Dread Wolf was originally a title given by his enemies and since it is not his true identity, it is something that can be used to deceive you into thinking you are following the Dread Wolf when really you aren't. " Beware the forms of Fen'Harel." We know he is not above using disguises to mask his identity. He might also use decoys as well.* So, perhaps the game will be about unmasking the Dread Wolf and revealing the true bearer of the name. EDIT: *In the Missing they never actually see Solas, just seem to get reports of him. Neve had heard his name mentioned a lot but not actually seen him. The elf told them where he was meant to be heading but since Varric and Harding never go there, how do they know if it was reliable information? Add to this the fact that he can use the eluvian network to get from one location to another speedily and it is going to be hard to tell if reports of seeing him are true, because by the time the PC arrives at the reported location, they won't know if he was really there or not.
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Post by Walter Black on Jun 28, 2023 0:21:29 GMT
I’ve got a distinct feeling i’m going to be very annoyed if as I suspect weekes tries to whitewash solas. Weekes whitewashes EVERYONE.
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Post by Walter Black on Jun 28, 2023 0:31:58 GMT
I've said both of these things before, and I'll say them again:
Sauron was essentially Morgoth 2.0. Galadriel and Elrond led opposition to him for centuries, Gandalf was specifically resurrected to stop him, and Aragorn had the whole "vengeance and family honor" arc against him. Yet while everyone played their parts, the Dark Lord was ultimately undone by a couple of Hobbits.
The Inquisitor could develop a relationship with Solas over the period of ONE game, so I see no reason a new hero couldn't create their own personal dynamic with the Dread Wolf.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 28, 2023 0:50:27 GMT
I’ve got a distinct feeling i’m going to be very annoyed if as I suspect weekes tries to whitewash solas. Weekes whitewashes EVERYONE. Except the Qun for some reason. Them they made morally black and judges people who ever side with them. I've said both of these things before, and I'll say them again: Sauron was essentially Morgoth 2.0. Galadriel and Elrond led opposition to him for centuries, Gandalf was specifically resurrected to stop him, and Aragorn had the whole "vengeance and family honor" arc against him. Yet while everyone played their parts, the Dark Lord was ultimately undone by a couple of Hobbits. The Inquisitor could develop a relationship with Solas over the period of ONE game, so I see no reason a new hero couldn't create their own personal dynamic with the Dread Wolf. Of course they can. The issue is just all the lost potential. Instead of developing everything that’s there, they start from scratch wasting time establishing what was already established. Sauron Vs Frodo is not a good example of a well-developed hero-villain dynamic.
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