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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 22, 2023 0:56:43 GMT
I don't think Varric showing up repeatedly makes the series about him or makes him a secret true protagonist or a self insert. He keeps showing up because he can't die and can't be romanced, which allows him to easily be a bridge between games, not because he's special. And companions/major npcs are always gonna dominate the non game and marketing content because the PC's are customisable. Hopefully Bioware will think ahead when writing the DAD npcs and make sure they have a couple that are similarly non-quantum and bridge worthy for da5. (And maybe make it so Varric can die, be romanced, or something else interesting in DAD that prevents him from being the da5 bridge ) I'm also hoping that Harding is more prominent than Varric since I'm more interested in her.
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Post by githcheater on Jun 22, 2023 1:04:32 GMT
The opening scene to DAD will be Varric and Lace getting married.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2023 2:50:00 GMT
That lets us easily move any units we need to to oppose Solas in the shadows under the guise of opposing the Qun. That could still happen. You will recall, I thought that might be a way they could utilise the Inquisitor behind the scenes, except they actually could oppose the Qun whilst gathering intel on Solas. No, not really. It’s his magic so it is easy to conclude he has counters to it. Actually, perhaps he doesn't but he did know that eventually it would start misfiring, at which point he could step in to save you by removing it. After all, he waited 2 years before making contact again and informing you of his past and future plans. May be if he had done so before it started misfiring, you could have used in on him, but once it went out of control, he was able to stabilise it long enough for talk but not for you to use. Main point was the Anchor didn’t make us what we were. When technically it was connected with people thinking we were the Herald of Andraste because people thought it had been Andraste who had given it to us. However, it is true that the majority of the status and respect we acquired was because of our character and leadership skills, not just the anchor. The point is though that the anchor was an awkward addition to our abilities that would create problems in the narrative going forward. This is why I have stated that even if we hadn't been confronted by Solas and the Inquisitor went into retirement ignorant of the threat he presented, they would still have had to get rid of the anchor so people wouldn't be saying: "Why don't they just call on the Inquisitor to zap him with the anchor?" Oh they'd still be opposing the Antaam as well (as for the Qun as a whole would like if our alliance actually meant something). To give a movie example that popped in my head, it'd be like the opening scene in Captain America: The Winter Soldier where Black Widow is trying to subdue or eliminate the mercenaries that took the ship, but also getting the data on the ship's mission. Wouldn't be surprised if he was the one to make it start misfiring honestly. But we do know even before the reveal he had an extensive knowledge of its magic, and we know that knowing how magic works means you can better counter it. I do think they should have gotten rid of the Anchor. That part of Trespasser I agree with, especially since around that time Patrick answered a tweet saying that that was the reason they took the Inquisitor's hand rather than doing that to not use them (what a lie that was). Honestly the Anchor should have disappeared after the Orb breaks, but they couldn't because you can play after the main quest. But as I said, you could easily explain why simply zapping Solas away with it wouldn't work. In fact it would make Solas seem more intimidating a villain since he is immune to the weapon that beat the last one.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2023 2:52:22 GMT
The idea of playing like an XCOM or Civilization set up with the Inquisitor controlling things from a distance has some interesting connotations. Not sure it could work for a sole set up given it wouldn't be an rpg and BioWares attempts to move on from those have been...mixed. But it could work in a dual protagonist nature. Have all the Field work be the new protagonist but then swap to orlais and have the Inquisitor react to news and assign agents Overall I would really like this, just with one change that addresses the problem you note: The Inquisitor also goes on a mission themselves every once in a while instead of just being stuck wherever the HQ is and all the missions being the new PC.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2023 6:57:31 GMT
But it could work in a dual protagonist nature. Have all the Field work be the new protagonist but then swap to orlais and have the Inquisitor react to news and assign agents Overall I would really like this, just with one change that addresses the problem you note: The Inquisitor also goes on a mission themselves every once in a while instead of just being stuck wherever the HQ is and all the missions being the new PC. In some ways it would just be an extension of the War Table from DAI, except we would be seeing it from the perspective of the agents out in the field. There were many times when I thought the War Table missions sounded a lot more interesting than the fetch quests that filled much of my time. I'd rather have been involved in thwarting the Serpent of Nevarra or protecting Maevaris from assassins than picking elf root. I don't know if they were planning on bringing back the War Table but it would be interesting if they could use it in this way. Even have the Inquisitor given options for two different types of instruction based around the concept of kill or redeem Solas, but not be confined to dialogue, attitudes or decisions chosen by what is recorded in the Keep. In other words, still have some control over them, as opposed to what they did with Hawke. Then, perhaps, at the climax of the adventure the Inquisitor would take to the field alongside the new PC. That would work for me.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2023 7:42:45 GMT
Oh they'd still be opposing the Antaam as well (as for the Qun as a whole would like if our alliance actually meant something). According to the epilogue to Trespasser, if you hand over the organisation to the Divine, then Par Vollen is said to approach her, willing to continue their alliance, but then request she sides with the Qun against Tevinter. That proposal would fall apart fairly quickly after the Antaam invaded Antiva. The only way Par Vollen could retain any sort of credibility would be to side with the Divine against their own Antaam. I can't see that personally, although I suppose they could offer Ben'Hassrath agents to assist in the push back. To be honest, though, I think the old alliance died a death once the Llomerryn Accord was broken, regardless of whether Par Vollen attempted to deny their approval of the action and, of course, it is equally possible there never was one because of our actions in DAI. However, working against Solas is a different matter. In TN Gatt recommends to Vadis and Irian that they seek out a "dwarf in Kirkwall" (that I assumed to be Varric but could equally be Harding) who is an ally in their efforts against Solas. That suggests that Par Vollen and the Ben'Hassrath are co-operating with the Divine, or the Inquisitor in a disbanded world state, to track him down and neutralise his threat. It was curious that in the very next story, Charter maintains that the Ben'Hassrath turned down her invitation to the meeting and yet admits they know more about Solas' movements than most, so it is possible this was a tale invented for the benefit of the others present, or the Ben'Hassrath had suspected Solas knew about and might try to infiltrate the meeting, so genuinely declined to be involved, preferring to study what happened. I was unclear if Rasaan was working independently of Par Vollen or part of their initiative but we know the Qun was still continuing their magical research after Trespasser and presumably Solas considers it enough of a threat to him to get his agent to destroy the facility a second time. So, it would seem that Par Vollen and the Divine/Inquisitor have agreed to work together on the basis of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" but only with respect to that threat. I suppose that is pretty much how the arrangement worked against Corypheus but apparently was not considered dissolved after his defeat, may be because Par Vollen realised Solas was still a threat. They didn't inform the Inquisitor because they were probably unsure how much they were compromised by his time in the Inquisition and knew it was riddled with his agents. I've always been puzzled how the Viddasala was aware that Corypheus' orb came from Solas but presume they had been keeping a watch on the Venatori and so they worked back from them receiving it to the original source of the object. She definitely said it was the explosion at the Conclave that got them studying magic and possible ways of strengthening the Veil and Solas admits his agents and Qun agents ended up tripping over one another, probably because both of them were using elves. We also know from Irian that both the Qun and Solas had tried recruiting her, so I imagine it was a similar case with a lot of city elves, with some ending up as double agents. I rather suspect that Solas stopping the Qun in Trespasser wasn't just because they "offend me" but because they were becoming a thorn in his side. Remember the message he gave to the Viddasala after instructing her to leave: "Tell the Qunari to trouble me no further". The reason he was initially willing to spare her was that he wanted to use her as his messenger. So, apparently the Qunari had been troubling him and they continued to do so after Trespasser. Something in their research is either a threat to his plans or to him personally and this is why both sides are willing to work together against him.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 22, 2023 7:42:45 GMT
The idea of playing like an XCOM or Civilization set up with the Inquisitor controlling things from a distance has some interesting connotations. Not sure it could work for a sole set up given it wouldn't be an rpg and BioWares attempts to move on from those have been...mixed. But it could work in a dual protagonist nature. Have all the Field work be the new protagonist but then swap to orlais and have the Inquisitor react to news and assign agents Overall I would really like this, just with one change that addresses the problem you note: The Inquisitor also goes on a mission themselves every once in a while instead of just being stuck wherever the HQ is and all the missions being the new PC. Yeah still would be concerned about the technical aspects however I guess they could limit that damage by making the bits with the Inquisitor only playable by the Inquisitor and...yeah. On the flip side this would also explain them just showing up for the final confrontation with Solas if they go this route since the Inquisitor is keeping an eye on the situation and that is established then she would know that the final confrontation is happening enough to get up to...wherever it is. I am warming to the idea more but it would fly in the face of my current idea that we would lose contact with the Inquisition, almost by neccisity, earlier in the game.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2023 7:48:17 GMT
Wouldn't be surprised if he was the one to make it start misfiring honestly. But we do know even before the reveal he had an extensive knowledge of its magic, and we know that knowing how magic works means you can better counter it. I did wonder about this myself. At the very least he knew that something needed to be done to it to control the build-up of magical energy. That hadn't been a problem whilst combating Corypheus because we were using it on such a regular basis to close rifts but after sealing the Breach a second time and closing the remainder of the rifts, I imagine it needed to be switched to "off" to prevent overload and that was the vital bit of information he failed to provide us with until it had maimed our arm beyond healing, so the only way to stop the process was to cut it off.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2023 7:58:58 GMT
I am warming to the idea more but it would fly in the face of my current idea that we would lose contact with the Inquisition, almost by neccisity, earlier in the game. May be we would be instructed to go under deep cover until we found something important, then use a sending crystal to convey that information and receive further instructions. I think they introduced this concept in Trespasser with Dorian in order to establish such objects do exist and are likely the only way to maintain contact that cannot be compromised by outsiders intercepting the message. I've always assumed that the crystal requires a password to activate it, so only the designated user can operate it even if it does fall into enemy hands. Thus, the communication remains secure and allows you to contact your allies over a great range instantly.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2023 10:50:41 GMT
Oh they'd still be opposing the Antaam as well (as for the Qun as a whole would like if our alliance actually meant something). According to the epilogue to Trespasser, if you hand over the organisation to the Divine, then Par Vollen is said to approach her, willing to continue their alliance, but then request she sides with the Qun against Tevinter. That proposal would fall apart fairly quickly after the Antaam invaded Antiva. The only way Par Vollen could retain any sort of credibility would be to side with the Divine against their own Antaam. I can't see that personally, although I suppose they could offer Ben'Hassrath agents to assist in the push back. To be honest, though, I think the old alliance died a death once the Llomerryn Accord was broken, regardless of whether Par Vollen attempted to deny their approval of the action and, of course, it is equally possible there never was one because of our actions in DAI. However, working against Solas is a different matter. In TN Gatt recommends to Vadis and Irian that they seek out a "dwarf in Kirkwall" (that I assumed to be Varric but could equally be Harding) who is an ally in their efforts against Solas. That suggests that Par Vollen and the Ben'Hassrath are co-operating with the Divine, or the Inquisitor in a disbanded world state, to track him down and neutralise his threat. It was curious that in the very next story, Charter maintains that the Ben'Hassrath turned down her invitation to the meeting and yet admits they know more about Solas' movements than most, so it is possible this was a tale invented for the benefit of the others present, or the Ben'Hassrath had suspected Solas knew about and might try to infiltrate the meeting, so genuinely declined to be involved, preferring to study what happened. I was unclear if Rasaan was working independently of Par Vollen or part of their initiative but we know the Qun was still continuing their magical research after Trespasser and presumably Solas considers it enough of a threat to him to get his agent to destroy the facility a second time. So, it would seem that Par Vollen and the Divine/Inquisitor have agreed to work together on the basis of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" but only with respect to that threat. I suppose that is pretty much how the arrangement worked against Corypheus but apparently was not considered dissolved after his defeat, may be because Par Vollen realised Solas was still a threat. They didn't inform the Inquisitor because they were probably unsure how much they were compromised by his time in the Inquisition and knew it was riddled with his agents. I've always been puzzled how the Viddasala was aware that Corypheus' orb came from Solas but presume they had been keeping a watch on the Venatori and so they worked back from them receiving it to the original source of the object. She definitely said it was the explosion at the Conclave that got them studying magic and possible ways of strengthening the Veil and Solas admits his agents and Qun agents ended up tripping over one another, probably because both of them were using elves. We also know from Irian that both the Qun and Solas had tried recruiting her, so I imagine it was a similar case with a lot of city elves, with some ending up as double agents. I rather suspect that Solas stopping the Qun in Trespasser wasn't just because they "offend me" but because they were becoming a thorn in his side. Remember the message he gave to the Viddasala after instructing her to leave: "Tell the Qunari to trouble me no further". The reason he was initially willing to spare her was that he wanted to use her as his messenger. So, apparently the Qunari had been troubling him and they continued to do so after Trespasser. Something in their research is either a threat to his plans or to him personally and this is why both sides are willing to work together against him. Yeah the Antaam attacking Antiva for some reason pretty much ruins that. Though I could see it being possible for the other two of the Triumverate to oppose the Antaam (and maybe even some of the Antaam if they go a civil war route with it). It’d be nice if handling them was similar to the Geth-Quarian conflict in ME3 where you can get peace but it’s really hard and depends on choices made throughout the franchise. I still stand by the Triumvirate as a whole being genuine in that letter to Josephine we find in Viddasala’s office, since if that was part of the ruse why would she crumple it up and throw it into the corner instead of letting it be delivered? But I doubt Patrick will do that again since they straight up said people who side with the Qun over the Chargers chose wrong and insinuated are bad people(we can’t be friends). I definitely see them aiding against Solas if we choose to work wit them. I just hope they don’t have us doing things like letting them keep Antiva or Tevinter or go unpunished for their atrocities in a deal for that cooperation. As for how they knew all that, my guess is The Iron Bull told them. He is a member of our outer inner circle so could be privy to that information, especially since most is learned before he could leave the Qun. Not in the mindset of selling us out, but genuinely trying to get info to give us or at least alert his people.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2023 10:53:05 GMT
Overall I would really like this, just with one change that addresses the problem you note: The Inquisitor also goes on a mission themselves every once in a while instead of just being stuck wherever the HQ is and all the missions being the new PC. Yeah still would be concerned about the technical aspects however I guess they could limit that damage by making the bits with the Inquisitor only playable by the Inquisitor and...yeah. On the flip side this would also explain them just showing up for the final confrontation with Solas if they go this route since the Inquisitor is keeping an eye on the situation and that is established then she would know that the final confrontation is happening enough to get up to...wherever it is. I am warming to the idea more but it would fly in the face of my current idea that we would lose contact with the Inquisition, almost by neccisity, earlier in the game. We could still lose contact with the Inquisition for a while in the game. Even have one of the Inquisitor missions trying to find out what happened letting us build the connection between the two protagonists. If it’s a hundred hour game, having no contact for even ten hours would be like a whole season of a show.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 22, 2023 11:01:30 GMT
Yeah still would be concerned about the technical aspects however I guess they could limit that damage by making the bits with the Inquisitor only playable by the Inquisitor and...yeah. On the flip side this would also explain them just showing up for the final confrontation with Solas if they go this route since the Inquisitor is keeping an eye on the situation and that is established then she would know that the final confrontation is happening enough to get up to...wherever it is. I am warming to the idea more but it would fly in the face of my current idea that we would lose contact with the Inquisition, almost by neccisity, earlier in the game. We could still lose contact with the Inquisition for a while in the game. Even have one of the Inquisitor missions trying to find out what happened letting us build the connection between the two protagonists. If it’s a hundred hour game, having no contact for even ten hours would be like a whole season of a show. Good point.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2023 14:20:14 GMT
As for how they knew all that, my guess is The Iron Bull told them. He is a member of our outer inner circle so could be privy to that information, especially since most is learned before he could leave the Qun. Not in the mindset of selling us out, but genuinely trying to get info to give us or at least alert his people. This explains some part of what they knew, for example the orb was an elven artifact, although Solas does take us to one side to divulge that bit of information. However, he doesn't tell us the orb was actually his or that his agent gave it to the Venatori until Trespasser, yet the Viddasala knew this and informed us before we make contact with Solas. She only thought he was an agent of Fen'Harel, not Fen'Harel himself, but then we can only assert this if we pick up on all pieces of information. Otherwise, it is left to Solas to reveal the truth. Yet, the rest of what the Viddasala asserted was correct and I even feel they had some idea that the orb had been given deliberately with a view to weakening or even destroying the Veil, which wasn't so far from the truth. Of course, there is another aspect and that is the fact that Rasaan is convinced that Solas wasn't his true name. Now this could be just because the Qun have their own thing about names and Iron Bull would have told them about Abelas and how ancient elves also seemed to change their name with their role, but I wonder if it does have more to it than that. It probably has something to do with the history of their race, which only the higher ranked priestesses know about but Iron Bull dropped his suspicions about concerning their affinity with dragons. Bearing in mind that according to DG's comic series, Koslun knew about Great Dragons and a link to Calenhad via a mysterious witch, likely Flemeth, there has to be some sort of link there with ancient times, if not ancient elves then the ancient humans, who seemed to venerate dragons from their earliest history. I think this could also involve the Executors, who like the Qun originated across the sea, as did the first humans. It was interesting that their agent suggested the reason for the absence of the Ben'Hassrath at the meeting was that the Qun feared to meet with them. They also referred to Solas as the "Wolf", not the Dread Wolf, which suggested a familiarity there as well. Then Solas petrified the agent before they could reveal what they knew about him and warned Charter against them. I definitely wouldn't trust the Executors but that suggests there is another big reveal yet to come that is not only going to be relevant to dealing with him but will also give us more on the origins of the early humans and the kossith.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2023 14:27:41 GMT
I definitely see them aiding against Solas if we choose to work wit them. I just hope they don’t have us doing things like letting them keep Antiva or Tevinter or go unpunished for their atrocities in a deal for that cooperation. I think there is a reason that the writers introduced a schism in the Qun and it is likely because they want us to be able to work with Ben'Hassrath agents with a clear conscience. Of course, it could turn out they are double dealing a second time but I'm hoping the writers play it straight with the qunari from Par Vollen and it is other groups that turn out to be a double edged sword or where we have to make a choice like we did with the Iron Bull. Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind betting that having a Ben'Hassrath agent in our party simultaneously with perhaps a Crow and a Sicarri or Shadow Dragon will lead to some fireworks between companions.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 23, 2023 9:35:11 GMT
I definitely see them aiding against Solas if we choose to work wit them. I just hope they don’t have us doing things like letting them keep Antiva or Tevinter or go unpunished for their atrocities in a deal for that cooperation. I think there is a reason that the writers introduced a schism in the Qun and it is likely because they want us to be able to work with Ben'Hassrath agents with a clear conscience. Of course, it could turn out they are double dealing a second time but I'm hoping the writers play it straight with the qunari from Par Vollen and it is other groups that turn out to be a double edged sword or where we have to make a choice like we did with the Iron Bull. Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind betting that having a Ben'Hassrath agent in our party simultaneously with perhaps a Crow and a Sicarri or Shadow Dragon will lead to some fireworks between companions. With what they have painted this game as so far, to be honest I’m not trusting any character to not be a double edged sword. Though I do hope any Qun character we get are not among these, if for nothing else then to avoid a repeat of what they did with The Iron Bull. In Tevinter we have the various factions infighting and having their own agendas, in Antiva we have the Crows, any elf could be working for Solas, etc.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 23, 2023 10:36:43 GMT
In Tevinter we have the various factions infighting and having their own agendas, in Antiva we have the Crows, any elf could be working for Solas, etc. Actually it has occurred to me how many of the factions that seem to be associated with the current plot have historically enlisted elves among their ranks, which means they could be infiltrated and compromised by Solas: Magisterium and noble families generally that keep slaves: As emphasised in Masked Empire and in the Winter Palace plot, people tend to ignore the servants as though part of the furniture, so plenty of scope there to undermine Tevinter from within (the Qun also do this) but also gain leads on important artifacts that were plundered from elven ruins in the past. Tevinter Sicarri: Usually use slaves and keep their families as hostages to ensure their loyalty. Whilst slaves are not exclusively elves in Tevinter, invariably the associated media tends to make it appear as though that is the case, particularly when it comes to those slaves that are treated the worst. Whilst it is possible they are treated well enough to remain loyal because of the benefits to themselves, there is potential there to recruit double agents. Qunari: Regularly recruit from among the city elves precisely because they are generally poorly treated across Thedas, so have nothing to lose in joining up (or so they claim). They certainly would have no sense of loyalty towards the hierarchy that the Qun are attempting to replace. However, those who have grown up outside the Qun are also more likely to observe its shortcomings and be open to subversion by Solas' agents. Crows: Have a fair number of elves in their ranks but whilst there are (or were) elves among the Talons, it was said that one of them, Bolivar, looked down on Teia as a street rat who had risen above her station in life, so it would seem that those others at the top probably got there through their family connections (the First Talon would seem to currently be a hereditary position based off the rank of the house they come from). Anyway, I imagine most elves recruited from the streets, like Zevran, are really no better than slaves, even if they do occupy a gilded cage, since failure or attempting to leave the organisation usually results in execution. Already well trained as assassins, Solas might well be able to offer them a way out that they find attractive. Shadow Dragons: Definitely help runaway slaves, which includes elves. Whilst this might make the elves favourably disposed towards them, it does leave them exposed to infiltration by enemy agents. That elf in the Missing definitely seemed a bit suss to me. any elf could be working for Solas, At this point is seems more pertinent to ask is any elf not potentially working for Solas? It certainly makes it problematic for me since I have a soft spot for elves. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson having been burned by Solas but I am going to have to be careful.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 23, 2023 11:27:11 GMT
I'm fine with there being lots of different agendas at play. I'm just hoping we can have our own agenda. My preference would definitely be to kill qunari over working with them. I still ideally hope we aren't even part of the inquisition.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2023 4:33:42 GMT
I'm fine with there being lots of different agendas at play. I'm just hoping we can have our own agenda. My preference would definitely be to kill qunari over working with them. I still ideally hope we aren't even part of the inquisition. With what they’ve set up, we most likely will be part of them or at the very least an ally of the Inquisition. To be honest I agree with you since if we are that’s just another reason why couldn’t we just continue as the Inquisitor? To bring this back on topic, if they did dual protagonists it would be interesting if certain choices and different agendas left us interfering with ourselves.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2023 4:35:33 GMT
In Tevinter we have the various factions infighting and having their own agendas, in Antiva we have the Crows, any elf could be working for Solas, etc. Actually it has occurred to me how many of the factions that seem to be associated with the current plot have historically enlisted elves among their ranks, which means they could be infiltrated and compromised by Solas: Magisterium and noble families generally that keep slaves: As emphasised in Masked Empire and in the Winter Palace plot, people tend to ignore the servants as though part of the furniture, so plenty of scope there to undermine Tevinter from within (the Qun also do this) but also gain leads on important artifacts that were plundered from elven ruins in the past. Tevinter Sicarri: Usually use slaves and keep their families as hostages to ensure their loyalty. Whilst slaves are not exclusively elves in Tevinter, invariably the associated media tends to make it appear as though that is the case, particularly when it comes to those slaves that are treated the worst. Whilst it is possible they are treated well enough to remain loyal because of the benefits to themselves, there is potential there to recruit double agents. Qunari: Regularly recruit from among the city elves precisely because they are generally poorly treated across Thedas, so have nothing to lose in joining up (or so they claim). They certainly would have no sense of loyalty towards the hierarchy that the Qun are attempting to replace. However, those who have grown up outside the Qun are also more likely to observe its shortcomings and be open to subversion by Solas' agents. Crows: Have a fair number of elves in their ranks but whilst there are (or were) elves among the Talons, it was said that one of them, Bolivar, looked down on Teia as a street rat who had risen above her station in life, so it would seem that those others at the top probably got there through their family connections (the First Talon would seem to currently be a hereditary position based off the rank of the house they come from). Anyway, I imagine most elves recruited from the streets, like Zevran, are really no better than slaves, even if they do occupy a gilded cage, since failure or attempting to leave the organisation usually results in execution. Already well trained as assassins, Solas might well be able to offer them a way out that they find attractive. Shadow Dragons: Definitely help runaway slaves, which includes elves. Whilst this might make the elves favourably disposed towards them, it does leave them exposed to infiltration by enemy agents. That elf in the Missing definitely seemed a bit suss to me. any elf could be working for Solas, At this point is seems more pertinent to ask is any elf not potentially working for Solas? It certainly makes it problematic for me since I have a soft spot for elves. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson having been burned by Solas but I am going to have to be careful. Yeah the elves are definitely going to be a group that’s thrown under the bus because of Solas, similar to the qunari thanks to the Antaam. Which is going to suck because usually I want to help the elves, but I can see BioWare making some of those choices mistakes and betrayals. Also ironic how we can’t be the Inquisition anymore because Solas may send agents yet the groups they’re promoting can be filled with his more easily than the Inquisition.
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 24, 2023 7:48:32 GMT
I'm fine with there being lots of different agendas at play. I'm just hoping we can have our own agenda. My preference would definitely be to kill qunari over working with them. I still ideally hope we aren't even part of the inquisition. With what they’ve set up, we most likely will be part of them or at the very least an ally of the Inquisition. To be honest I agree with you since if we are that’s just another reason why couldn’t we just continue as the Inquisitor? To bring this back on topic, if they did dual protagonists it would be interesting if certain choices and different agendas left us interfering with ourselves. Yes, this. If we work with the Inquisition anyway then the entire "we need someone Solas doesn't know" reasoning lands flat on its arse because our connection with them will lead Solas right to us anyway. And in that case, why play a copy when the original still exists. Of course on the other hand I distinctly remember disbanding the Inquisition at the end of Trespasser and sending everyone home to a well deserved safe civilian life with a heart felt "thank you for your service, I will miss you all". DAD better doesn't reverse that decision. And I would greatly prefer to not have to work with the Qunari. Other than the problems I have with their entire philosophy there are also security concerns. If connection with the Inquisition can lead Solas to me, I'm sure that a connection to any other big faction can do the same thing. And I really want BioWare to make good on their trailer theme "what will you do when those in power do nothing". I mean, let's face it, the protagonist is going to have to do all the work anyway.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2023 8:14:50 GMT
I'm fine with there being lots of different agendas at play. I'm just hoping we can have our own agenda. My preference would definitely be to kill qunari over working with them. I still ideally hope we aren't even part of the inquisition. With what they’ve set up, we most likely will be part of them or at the very least an ally of the Inquisition. To be honest I agree with you since if we are that’s just another reason why couldn’t we just continue as the Inquisitor? To bring this back on topic, if they did dual protagonists it would be interesting if certain choices and different agendas left us interfering with ourselves. Yes, this. If we work with the Inquisition anyway then the entire "we need someone Solas doesn't know" reasoning lands flat on its arse because our connection with them will lead Solas right to us anyway. And in that case, why play a copy when the original still exists. Of course on the other hand I distinctly remember disbanding the Inquisition at the end of Trespasser and sending everyone home to a well deserved safe civilian life with a heart felt "thank you for your service, I will miss you all". DAD better doesn't reverse that decision. And I would greatly prefer to not have to work with the Qunari. Other than the problems I have with their entire philosophy there are also security concerns. If connection with the Inquisition can lead Solas to me, I'm sure that a connection to any other big faction can do the same thing. And I really want BioWare to make good on their trailer theme "what will you do when those in power do nothing". I mean, let's face it, the protagonist is going to have to do all the work anyway. As we see in the epilogue of Trespasser and throughout the expanded universe, even if you disband the Inquisition there is still a smaller, secret one going after Solas. I hate that line, simply because we have several friends who are in positions of power who would do things so then suddenly not doing anything is a huge bastardization of their characters.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 24, 2023 8:36:15 GMT
Also ironic how we can’t be the Inquisition anymore because Solas may send agents yet the groups they’re promoting can be filled with his more easily than the Inquisition. Yes, I do find it comical. Incidentally, I've another group to add, the Lords of Fortune. Whilst they have members from a variety of races, it would be a good way for a follower of Solas to integrate with a group specialising in finding and retrieving ancient artifacts or dealing with threats, minor or otherwise, that other individuals or groups do not wish to deal with themselves. So, an elf working for Solas may be able to discover useful leads about artifacts he is interested in and ingratiate themselves into any recovery mission. However, should anyone try employing member(s) of the Lords of Fortune to engage in the hunt for Solas, they are immediately on to them and can ensure it doesn't succeed, either by giving them false leads or just ensuring they come to a bad end. As for the Veil Jumpers, unless they come from a different ancient tradition that has always been opposed to the Dread Wolf, I would question exactly where they acquired their expertise. Even if they are enemies of Solas, it is likely he would ensure he has a mole among them for that very reason. So, that just about covers every potential faction that has been showcased either in TN or the Missing, apart from the Grey Wardens and I think we are going to find they have more immediate problems to deal with that means Solas doesn't concern himself with them. To bring this back on topic, if they did dual protagonists it would be interesting if certain choices and different agendas left us interfering with ourselves. This is probably going to happen at some point, whether we are officially part of the Inquisition or not. It may take the form of something the Inquisitor did in the past or, something our new hero does in the present, preventing an alliance of some sort, or failure to prevent some adverse event. If nothing else, it may arise if we get close enough to Solas that the decision over what to do with him becomes relevant. Then there is the matter of the Well of Sorrows. It is likely they will simply try and quietly forget about that decision but, if it continues to be important, after absorbing Mythal it does seem as though Solas should now have control over the drinker. If the Inquisitor was foolish enough to drink, that could mean they will be confronting the new hero to prevent them getting to Solas (otherwise the default protector would be Morrigan). I seriously doubt they would do this though. If anything, whatever Flemeth sent through the eluvian was intended to prevent this and since data mined notes suggested she was passing her power to Morrigan, this means the Well drinker will now be subject to her, if Morrigan didn't drink herself. Morrigan may be another character that will be quietly side-lined now DG is not lead writer but, if not, it will be interesting to see whose side she is on.
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 24, 2023 8:42:31 GMT
I'm fine with there being lots of different agendas at play. I'm just hoping we can have our own agenda. My preference would definitely be to kill qunari over working with them. I still ideally hope we aren't even part of the inquisition. With what they’ve set up, we most likely will be part of them or at the very least an ally of the Inquisition. To be honest I agree with you since if we are that’s just another reason why couldn’t we just continue as the Inquisitor? To bring this back on topic, if they did dual protagonists it would be interesting if certain choices and different agendas left us interfering with ourselves. Personally i think it would make more sense for us to be an independent contractor. Be a mercenary hired to do a job. We don't know we've been hired by inquisition agents. Job goes sidewards we get sucked into the Solas mess as our lives our now in danger. I'm no fan of the inquisitor but if we are going to be part of the inquisition or an ally why even have a new character.
I have enjoyed scuppering NPC characters before (the useless Cammen for instance). I don't know if i'd find interfering a dual protagonist as fun. As if i dislike them enough that i'd be happy scuppering them i'm probably goiing to find the sections playing as them annoying.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2023 21:05:27 GMT
With what they’ve set up, we most likely will be part of them or at the very least an ally of the Inquisition. To be honest I agree with you since if we are that’s just another reason why couldn’t we just continue as the Inquisitor? To bring this back on topic, if they did dual protagonists it would be interesting if certain choices and different agendas left us interfering with ourselves. Personally i think it would make more sense for us to be an independent contractor. Be a mercenary hired to do a job. We don't know we've been hired by inquisition agents. Job goes sidewards we get sucked into the Solas mess as our lives our now in danger. I'm no fan of the inquisitor but if we are going to be part of the inquisition or an ally why even have a new character.
I have enjoyed scuppering NPC characters before (the useless Cammen for instance). I don't know if i'd find interfering a dual protagonist as fun. As if i dislike them enough that i'd be happy scuppering them i'm probably goiing to find the sections playing as them annoying. I imagine that’s how it’ll go. We won’t start as a member but somewhere in the game we join. Maybe have it be optional. To use an example from what we’ve heard of the Phantom Liberty expansion for Cyberpunk 2077 you can either take an oath to the NUSA or choose not to and just be a mercenary. Overall you’re still beholden to your employer, but it gives flavor differences. I didn’t mean intentionally scuppering them. More you make a choice that seems the right one for Protagonist A, but it makes things harder for Protagonist B. Like how certain choices in past BioWare games were the right thing to do but did come back to bite us as well.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2023 21:12:48 GMT
Also ironic how we can’t be the Inquisition anymore because Solas may send agents yet the groups they’re promoting can be filled with his more easily than the Inquisition. Yes, I do find it comical. Incidentally, I've another group to add, the Lords of Fortune. Whilst they have members from a variety of races, it would be a good way for a follower of Solas to integrate with a group specialising in finding and retrieving ancient artifacts or dealing with threats, minor or otherwise, that other individuals or groups do not wish to deal with themselves. So, an elf working for Solas may be able to discover useful leads about artifacts he is interested in and ingratiate themselves into any recovery mission. However, should anyone try employing member(s) of the Lords of Fortune to engage in the hunt for Solas, they are immediately on to them and can ensure it doesn't succeed, either by giving them false leads or just ensuring they come to a bad end. As for the Veil Jumpers, unless they come from a different ancient tradition that has always been opposed to the Dread Wolf, I would question exactly where they acquired their expertise. Even if they are enemies of Solas, it is likely he would ensure he has a mole among them for that very reason. So, that just about covers every potential faction that has been showcased either in TN or the Missing, apart from the Grey Wardens and I think we are going to find they have more immediate problems to deal with that means Solas doesn't concern himself with them. To bring this back on topic, if they did dual protagonists it would be interesting if certain choices and different agendas left us interfering with ourselves. This is probably going to happen at some point, whether we are officially part of the Inquisition or not. It may take the form of something the Inquisitor did in the past or, something our new hero does in the present, preventing an alliance of some sort, or failure to prevent some adverse event. If nothing else, it may arise if we get close enough to Solas that the decision over what to do with him becomes relevant. Then there is the matter of the Well of Sorrows. It is likely they will simply try and quietly forget about that decision but, if it continues to be important, after absorbing Mythal it does seem as though Solas should now have control over the drinker. If the Inquisitor was foolish enough to drink, that could mean they will be confronting the new hero to prevent them getting to Solas (otherwise the default protector would be Morrigan). I seriously doubt they would do this though. If anything, whatever Flemeth sent through the eluvian was intended to prevent this and since data mined notes suggested she was passing her power to Morrigan, this means the Well drinker will now be subject to her, if Morrigan didn't drink herself. Morrigan may be another character that will be quietly side-lined now DG is not lead writer but, if not, it will be interesting to see whose side she is on. I don’t know. Solas clearly has a negative opinion towards the Grey Wardens, especially after the events of DAI, so he would definitely have some agents keeping an eye on them so they don’t do what he lectures Rainier about. I definitely hope some past choices come into play. Not just the “redeem or stop Solas” option but also the “disband or keep Inquisition” option. Could see for that it having positive or negative impacts in various parts of the game, since in one case it might get harder since Solas got a spy in while easier if he didn’t and in another situation you don’t have enough support or influence if disbanded making it harder while easier if you keep the organization. They made a deal to tell us the impact of those choices so hopefully they aren’t disregarded or made irrelevant. As for the Well of Sorrows, that one I don’t really see coming into play. You already noted Mythal sending out that wisp which I think undid the constraints of the geas while letting the person keep the benefits. Plus for all his talk of freedom I don’t think Solas would use it otherwise he would be the same as the Evanuris. Though if it does come into play, I easily see a quest undoing it.
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