Gileadan
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 6, 2024 10:12:52 GMT
DAI's combat is pretty awful, a worst of both worlds hybrid between action and tactical combat. It's not real action combat because enemy hitboxes are human sized no matter what creature they're attached to (if it has more than one health bar each health bar is essentially hovering over an invisible human sized target instead of a single target of the correct size) and it's not real tactical combat because your moronic companions can't even stick to basic orders like staying out of melee range if all they have is a bow.
Some aspects of it are personal taste of course, like human bosses looking like they're 8 feet tall and some really silly animations like enemies with greatswords spinning like an angry top that's trying to drill its way to the other side of the planet and such. Overall it always felt like a chore to me and there's way too damn much of it.
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Post by TabithaTH on Feb 6, 2024 10:52:16 GMT
Yeah, I spent most of DAI combat chasing after enemies because my dual dagger rogue had 0 mobility. Not fun at all. And the only reason I could finish Descent was because of companion control, ‘cause I kept being oneshot by the boss.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 6, 2024 11:28:42 GMT
da2 and dai forced you into 1 weapon style unless you respecced but then you had to pay a lot to do it and realistically it was clear certain weapons say mauls weren’t as good as swords so if you wanted faster combat you learned to stick with that. Dao was just better and Bg3 is about like dao Agree with this. It is far more flexible in the way you can customise your character. Want a dual wielding warrior? Just choose the option in the skills tree and bump up your dexterity. Want your rogue to be able to dual wield something other than daggers? Do the opposite and increase your strength. Want a mage fighter? Take the Arcane Warrior specialism and you can use your magic stat instead of strength to use weapons and armour. Plus they had two weapon slots, so you could switch between ranged and melee weapons mid fight (at the expense of leaving yourself open to be hit which is realistic), whereas in DA2 you had to go to the inventory and change it, which was artificial and annoying, whilst in DAI you couldn't do it at all. Yeah, I spent most of DAI combat chasing after enemies because my dual dagger rogue had 0 mobility. Not fun at all Which is why when I discovered this I gave up on the dual wielding rogue for my PC and stuck to being an archer, which was still enjoyable. I had a blast playing a dual wielding rogue in DAO because of the flexibility they gave you but even in DA2 it was fun, particularly against the Arishok, he never saw me coming. Sadly, unless they reverse their actions and replace the old style dual wielding, I will never play one again. -dai least interactive environments and huge amounts of wasted space. The castle base in act 2 is mostly wasted empty space This was my biggest disappointment, that they didn't use Skyhold for anything significant, like the final battle, and the upgrades were purely cosmetic. Skyhold is better than a non customisable camp See my above comment. I spent the whole of my first run expecting the choice of upgrades to be significant and that the final showdown would be at Skyhold, only to discover it was purely cosmetic. The only appreciable different was that if you chose a herb garden instead of one devoted to prayer, you could grow your own elfroot and you didn't have to endure that annoying woman prattling on about the Maker as you approached the War Room. Probably BioWare's best or at least second best home base. Seriously? At least with Vigil's Keep there was a difference in the epilogue if you chose to upgrade it. In one of their former games, I think it was Neverwinter Nights 2, what you did with your castle impacted on the battle there. The same was true of ME2 and the Normandy. Your companions actually died if you didn't upgrade it, which made all the planet scanning (equivalent of hunting for elf root) worth it. Skyhold was a wasted opportunity and I suspect it was originally their plan to use it in that way but time and money constraints prevented it.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 6, 2024 12:40:11 GMT
da2 and dai forced you into 1 weapon style unless you respecced but then you had to pay a lot to do it and realistically it was clear certain weapons say mauls weren’t as good as swords so if you wanted faster combat you learned to stick with that. Dao was just better and Bg3 is about like dao Agree with this. It is far more flexible in the way you can customise your character. Want a dual wielding warrior? Just choose the option in the skills tree and bump up your dexterity. Want your rogue to be able to dual wield something other than daggers? Do the opposite and increase your strength. Want a mage fighter? Take the Arcane Warrior specialism and you can use your magic stat instead of strength to use weapons and armour. Plus they had two weapon slots, so you could switch between ranged and melee weapons mid fight (at the expense of leaving yourself open to be hit which is realistic), whereas in DA2 you had to go to the inventory and change it, which was artificial and annoying, whilst in DAI you couldn't do it at all. Yeah, I spent most of DAI combat chasing after enemies because my dual dagger rogue had 0 mobility. Not fun at all Which is why when I discovered this I gave up on the dual wielding rogue for my PC and stuck to being an archer, which was still enjoyable. I had a blast playing a dual wielding rogue in DAO because of the flexibility they gave you but even in DA2 it was fun, particularly against the Arishok, he never saw me coming. Sadly, unless they reverse their actions and replace the old style dual wielding, I will never play one again. -dai least interactive environments and huge amounts of wasted space. The castle base in act 2 is mostly wasted empty space This was my biggest disappointment, that they didn't use Skyhold for anything significant, like the final battle, and the upgrades were purely cosmetic. Skyhold is better than a non customisable camp See my above comment. I spent the whole of my first run expecting the choice of upgrades to be significant and that the final showdown would be at Skyhold, only to discover it was purely cosmetic. The only appreciable different was that if you chose a herb garden instead of one devoted to prayer, you could grow your own elfroot and you didn't have to endure that annoying woman prattling on about the Maker as you approached the War Room. Probably BioWare's best or at least second best home base. Seriously? At least with Vigil's Keep there was a difference in the epilogue if you chose to upgrade it. In one of their former games, I think it was Neverwinter Nights 2, what you did with your castle impacted on the battle there. The same was true of ME2 and the Normandy. Your companions actually died if you didn't upgrade it, which made all the planet scanning (equivalent of hunting for elf root) worth it. Skyhold was a wasted opportunity and I suspect it was originally their plan to use it in that way but time and money constraints prevented it. I forgot about vigils keep in my analysis but don't like it better then Skyhold. Normandy is the only real competition for Skyhold...well the SR 2. I suspect more they decided to go in a different direction. And sure a lot of places may have customization. But not the character Skyhold has.
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Post by wickedcool on Feb 6, 2024 13:26:50 GMT
I played dai to death but let’s be real
It is not an immersive world- yes it has great lore but you have to be a hardcore dai fan to appreciate it. Example-stormcoast. There’s a house on a hill. You go to the house to trigger a random mage. This mage is a murderer who sacrifices people in his basement. Backstory neat but you literally have to spam an area to get him to show. He’s tanky on even easy but it’s a very unsatisfying event. Same with the giant vs dragon or the horrible spider cave where you have to light the magic torch sidequest. It’s a huge barren area just filled with spawns. The quest that Harding sends you on could have been way more fleshed out. It’s just mindless button smashing and then submarine sonar pinging to find the buried notes. Then you go back later for bull if your approval is high with him and then a second portion unlocks with mystery statues of pirates and now basic awful designed darkspawn spawn along with lyrium knights.
I’m sorry but it’s not good. There’s nothing memorable about this huge chunk of land plus unless you camp travel it’s a pia to travel. I would literally jump of mountains just to save time as I couldn’t die
Love the hear the defense. Since it’s perfect
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 6, 2024 15:24:32 GMT
I played dai to death but let’s be real It is not an immersive world- yes it has great lore but you have to be a hardcore dai fan to appreciate it. Example-stormcoast. There’s a house on a hill. You go to the house to trigger a random mage. This mage is a murderer who sacrifices people in his basement. Backstory neat but you literally have to spam an area to get him to show. He’s tanky on even easy but it’s a very unsatisfying event. Same with the giant vs dragon or the horrible spider cave where you have to light the magic torch sidequest. It’s a huge barren area just filled with spawns. The quest that Harding sends you on could have been way more fleshed out. It’s just mindless button smashing and then submarine sonar pinging to find the buried notes. Then you go back later for bull if your approval is high with him and then a second portion unlocks with mystery statues of pirates and now basic awful designed darkspawn spawn along with lyrium knights. I’m sorry but it’s not good. There’s nothing memorable about this huge chunk of land plus unless you camp travel it’s a pia to travel. I would literally jump of mountains just to save time as I couldn’t die Love the hear the defense. Since it’s perfect That dragon and giant fight is actually one of the best examples of properly using a world. Unlike a Witcher or Breath of the Wild, the world just has moments and exists as a world instead of a giant gamey sandbox. - the ruins in The Hissing Wastes (or anywhere really) are great environmental storytelling that shows the breadth of history. - the sword coast being a harsher land filled with dangerous caves and only inhabited by a cult and madmen is yet another example of proper world building - the Hinterlands shows how it has been caught between to violent forces. Houses on fire, corpses littered everywhere, lost livestock, rabid possessed wolves… o and it reacts to the Inquisition’s actions - the Western Approach again shows the effects of the Venatori’s search, has areas that are impassable until you order work to clear them, and you get to clear hunters and bait a dragon - the astrariums and collections do add some “stuff to do” if your character is so inclined (hey, more choices for roleplay!) I could actually go on and on about how Inquisition has built a world, but I think it’s clear you prefer gamey sandboxes and will never agree. Inquisition’s Thedas should be the gold standard for RPGs and any game that prides itself on storytelling. Not every inch of the world needs to have a gimmick to it. Let a world actually be a world.
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Post by wickedcool on Feb 6, 2024 16:20:29 GMT
Yes u strongly disagree with every point you make
I have no problem with the world design itself. It’s pure laziness
-the mage encounter could be so much more -the dealer is a chore filled with unremarkable encounters that are lifeless such as the dog merchant -if you meet an npc. You recruit them and never see 1/2 of the hinterland recruits again. The rest are lifeless bots. There’s zero roleplaying! It’s 1 step above Minecraft and it’s poor compared to dragon age
Forget Bg3 as people can’t accept that dai is mostly a forgotten game as the Witcher 3 just swept it into the bargain bin
Dao dwarven origin alone has more life than anything in dai. The franchises foundation is based on some of the most memorable characters in that setting alone. We have a dwarven npcs for dai and we got 2 memorable npcs. I’d argue that leske is more memorable than renn and only a fraction of dao players have ever met leske
The mad hermit in dao. That should be been the minimum character type we should have encountered in the stormcoast
Fallow mire we get 2 memorable npcs Hand of korth-it’s a cool fight but pales in comparison to awakening baroness of black marsh Amund-shows up and joins you but once again where’s the beef
Now I just watch an awakening video of black marsh. They come across a body and characters comment and you get cutscenes and fast combat
So other than graphics how is the fallow mire more interesting than black marsh. Da2 references black marsh with anders and varric having a conversation. There’s none of that in dai
If I were running BioWare I would redo dao except dialogue. Add todays graphics and combat and you have a complete game
Keep arguing please
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 6, 2024 17:47:59 GMT
Yes u strongly disagree with every point you make I have no problem with the world design itself. It’s pure laziness -the mage encounter could be so much more -the dealer is a chore filled with unremarkable encounters that are lifeless such as the dog merchant -if you meet an npc. You recruit them and never see 1/2 of the hinterland recruits again. The rest are lifeless bots. There’s zero roleplaying! It’s 1 step above Minecraft and it’s poor compared to dragon age Forget Bg3 as people can’t accept that dai is mostly a forgotten game as the Witcher 3 just swept it into the bargain bin Dao dwarven origin alone has more life than anything in dai. The franchises foundation is based on some of the most memorable characters in that setting alone. We have a dwarven npcs for dai and we got 2 memorable npcs. I’d argue that leske is more memorable than renn and only a fraction of dao players have ever met leske The mad hermit in dao. That should be been the minimum character type we should have encountered in the stormcoast Fallow mire we get 2 memorable npcs Hand of korth-it’s a cool fight but pales in comparison to awakening baroness of black marsh Amund-shows up and joins you but once again where’s the beef Now I just watch an awakening video of black marsh. They come across a body and characters comment and you get cutscenes and fast combat So other than graphics how is the fallow mire more interesting than black marsh. Da2 references black marsh with anders and varric having a conversation. There’s none of that in dai If I were running BioWare I would redo dao except dialogue. Add todays graphics and combat and you have a complete game Keep arguing please No. Not going to argue with a hater that’s never going to be open minded. Good day.
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Post by wickedcool on Feb 6, 2024 18:09:57 GMT
Haha i’m not a hater
For the most part I like the dai graphics and I like the jump addition/climbing
For me I’ll use a McDonalds meal as an example
Regular big Mac fries and drink dao
Dai-Supersized and the packaging is pretty but sorry we skimmed on the original sauce
If dao was a novel Dwarf Bob, Rick and sue attacked the hero. They all looked unique had voices and wow I couldn’t stand Rick as he was mean to my sister
Dai-3 dwarves all wearing the same outfit/no voices etc
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Post by Cyberstrike on Feb 6, 2024 18:52:30 GMT
My biggest problem with BG3 is it's overall story and the insane amount of lore not just from the previous 2 games but the countless novels, and other D&D campaigns and look I get that but I feel like there is way too much stuff that is being crammed in namely of the various villain groups you have the Mind Flayers, The Absolute Cult, The Devils, the Sharrans, even the Gith. The story is kind of slow like Starfield where as you're waiting for the villains to appear BG3 goes in the other way with so many villain factions it's hard to keep up with.
Also this a personal gripe with most D&D media but I don't like how the Red Dragons are used they come off as little more than just dumb monsters that the Gith can ride, instead the smart, egomaniac, and powerful monsters that would NEVER let a a humanoid ride them unless they absolutely had to do and I know one of the loading screen texts say that the Gith can because they ancient king made a deal with the evil dragon god, but I think it makes them less menacing and less of a threat. When I get ready to a fight a dragon in any of the DA games I treat it like a major battle, the Red Dragons here seem to lack that (and it isn't help with the achievement/trophy about knocking one out of the sky, which makes fighting one feel like it's a joke.
The passive save rolls for perception, history, arcana, survival, and etc those are really annoying.
Look I get that Larian was trying to make as close to a real world Table top version of D&D has they can but there are somethings that just don't work for a single player video game. There is a lot to like even love about BG3 but the game has some serious flaws in terms of writing, characters, romance, and gameplay.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 7, 2024 8:11:54 GMT
I forgot about vigils keep in my analysis but don't like it better then Skyhold. DAA was a much smaller game because it was just an expansion to DAO. My point is that they managed to make whether or not you upgraded Vigil's Keep relevant somewhere if only in the epilogue. To be honest, Skyhold was the logical development of Vigil's Keep. Likely they were exploring how to establish a fixed base involving a castle in DAA and that came to fruition in DAI in the overall appearance and layout of the place. Which is why it was such a disappointment that they didn't upgrade the use of the customisation into the actual narrative bearing in mind they had already experimented with this concept over on ME2 and it was a huge success and very well received. I assume the two project teams do talk to one another, share concept ideas and are aware of the reception to their opposite number's franchise. They are also not averse to borrowing people from the other team to help with developing the game. So, they could have co-opted the technical people who worked on the Normandy upgrades and linked them to the events in the Suicide Run. I suspect more they decided to go in a different direction. I think it far more likely that they had to draw a line somewhere because they needed to get the game released and it had already had its development time extended by a year. Back in 2013 they were saying we could customise the various Keeps we established in the Western Approach, Emprise du Leon and Crestwood to be specifically dedicated to one of the specialisms of the three advisors, it would look different as a result and able to generate different quests or ways of resolving them and resources associated with it, either martial, espionage or diplomacy. Those Keeps did seem a bit like mini Skyholds, with their own personnel we could interact with and doing so did generate specific war table missions attached to them, but that is as far as it went. The rest obviously had to be abandoned through lack of time and resources. I suspect Skyhold was the same when it came to the use it would play in the game. Originally, they had been thinking of having a final showdown there where your choices for customisation would effect how it played out and there was the possibility of companion or advisor deaths, just like ME2, but they realised this would push back the release even further into the future, so the decision was taken to drop the meaningful elements of customisation and transfer the final battle to the Temple of Sacred Ashes. One further bit of evidence I would offer for why I think that was originally the plan. At the beginning of the confrontation with Corypheus, he punches a hole in the Veil once more and the temple starts to levitate. You could just about explain this by the quantity of lyrium in the mountain, although you would have to have played DAO to know this. However, Skyhold was literally the "place where the sky was held back", so it made sense that when Corypheus opened the Veil there the whole place would start to levitate towards the Fade. In fact you could almost argue that Solas took us to Skyhold because he wanted Corypheus to come there to confront us because that is where his orb needed to be.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 7, 2024 9:04:46 GMT
BG3 really just is a more poorly done Dragon Age 2… Ah, I needed a good laugh this morning, thanks!
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Post by TabithaTH on Feb 7, 2024 14:09:30 GMT
So I finished the game.
I didn’t find the ending (the one I got) that bad. Kinda reminds me of the end of Trespasser. I generally found the afterparty a fine standin for regular slides. Only problem is it did feel a bit rushed and everyone kinda behaved as though they had a crush on my PC. Like it was clearly designed with romances in mind and then edited to be acceptable for friendships. They also don’t really check for conditionals and just let the player answer whatever they want.
I also went back and tried various ending combinations. Don’t know if it was specific for Dark urge, but there were some interesting setups (that’ll probably never get resolved). I almost feel like the least ideal ending for my PC might be the most interesting narrative. Just wish it showed people talking about my PC’s sacrifice or something, to compensate for missing out on the party reunion.
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Post by Dukemon on Feb 12, 2024 11:42:51 GMT
I suspect it was originally their plan to use it in that way but time and money constraints prevented it. In the DA wiki, a statement by Gaider was used in which he says that they wanted to use Skyhold more. However, it had become too complicated for the end user (Their words), which is why the finale was moved to the Temple of Sacred Ashes. That's why the upgrades are only cosmetic.
Baldur's Gate 3 is not a perfect game. Nevertheless, you can tell from this game whether people wanted to develop this classic group role-playing game. Each act has its own cosmos in which the player's decisions affect other things immediately and later. In the same act or later. No Dragon Age has ever done that before, except maybe swapping names on some letter. Skills, talents and spells influence the competence or lack of competence of the leading character, how they can or cannot act. In battles, verbal conflicts or when exploring the area. I would have liked Dragon Age Origins a lot more if, in situations like the injured soldier in the Korkari Wilds, you could have used the healing spell if the mage had learnt it. But there are no such situations. In Dragon Age Inquisition, character values play no role at all. And they can't, because they are predetermined. What's more, if you play The Dark Urge you are a protagonist who is also somehow the mastermind behind the whole Thread. You can basically say the same thing about the Inquisitor, he ran to the Orb, he took the Orb and triggered the explosion. Even when he remembers this, it's not even mentioned. The controls work much better in BG3 because the companions do what they are supposed to do. In Inquisition, I play on easy and just let the ranged fighters knock themselves out in melee and damage range. After all, they get back up with half their health bar at the end of the fight anyway. Why should I worry about them and make my life unnecessarily difficult?
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Post by smilesja on Feb 12, 2024 21:33:04 GMT
Yes u strongly disagree with every point you make I have no problem with the world design itself. It’s pure laziness -the mage encounter could be so much more -the dealer is a chore filled with unremarkable encounters that are lifeless such as the dog merchant -if you meet an npc. You recruit them and never see 1/2 of the hinterland recruits again. The rest are lifeless bots. There’s zero roleplaying! It’s 1 step above Minecraft and it’s poor compared to dragon age Forget Bg3 as people can’t accept that dai is mostly a forgotten game as the Witcher 3 just swept it into the bargain bin Dao dwarven origin alone has more life than anything in dai. The franchises foundation is based on some of the most memorable characters in that setting alone. We have a dwarven npcs for dai and we got 2 memorable npcs. I’d argue that leske is more memorable than renn and only a fraction of dao players have ever met leske The mad hermit in dao. That should be been the minimum character type we should have encountered in the stormcoast Fallow mire we get 2 memorable npcs Hand of korth-it’s a cool fight but pales in comparison to awakening baroness of black marsh Amund-shows up and joins you but once again where’s the beef Now I just watch an awakening video of black marsh. They come across a body and characters comment and you get cutscenes and fast combat So other than graphics how is the fallow mire more interesting than black marsh. Da2 references black marsh with anders and varric having a conversation. There’s none of that in dai If I were running BioWare I would redo dao except dialogue. Add todays graphics and combat and you have a complete game Keep arguing please Why are people are so obsessed in going backwards lol? For all the talk of wanting different games, people always seems to go back to the old ways.
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Feb 12, 2024 22:13:48 GMT
Yes u strongly disagree with every point you make I have no problem with the world design itself. It’s pure laziness -the mage encounter could be so much more -the dealer is a chore filled with unremarkable encounters that are lifeless such as the dog merchant -if you meet an npc. You recruit them and never see 1/2 of the hinterland recruits again. The rest are lifeless bots. There’s zero roleplaying! It’s 1 step above Minecraft and it’s poor compared to dragon age Forget Bg3 as people can’t accept that dai is mostly a forgotten game as the Witcher 3 just swept it into the bargain bin Dao dwarven origin alone has more life than anything in dai. The franchises foundation is based on some of the most memorable characters in that setting alone. We have a dwarven npcs for dai and we got 2 memorable npcs. I’d argue that leske is more memorable than renn and only a fraction of dao players have ever met leske The mad hermit in dao. That should be been the minimum character type we should have encountered in the stormcoast Fallow mire we get 2 memorable npcs Hand of korth-it’s a cool fight but pales in comparison to awakening baroness of black marsh Amund-shows up and joins you but once again where’s the beef Now I just watch an awakening video of black marsh. They come across a body and characters comment and you get cutscenes and fast combat So other than graphics how is the fallow mire more interesting than black marsh. Da2 references black marsh with anders and varric having a conversation. There’s none of that in dai If I were running BioWare I would redo dao except dialogue. Add todays graphics and combat and you have a complete game Keep arguing please Why are people are so obsessed in going backwards lol? For all the talk of wanting different games, people always seems to go back to the old ways.
Well it's old "it was better in the old days!" excuse. Some people are so extremely nostalgic for "the good ole days" that even if we all went back to the Windows 95 and the NES they would complain that they miss the current day games. I think some people are way to hung up for a past that never was good and in some cases never existed at all. You can't please them and when you do they still complain. That is why I think major media companies aren't as interested in listening to the ultra hardcore "fans" because it's such a small part of the market that catering exclusively to them all the time would bankrupt many companies.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 12, 2024 22:28:53 GMT
I suspect it was originally their plan to use it in that way but time and money constraints prevented it. In the DA wiki, a statement by Gaider was used in which he says that they wanted to use Skyhold more. However, it had become too complicated for the end user (Their words), which is why the finale was moved to the Temple of Sacred Ashes. That's why the upgrades are only cosmetic.
Baldur's Gate 3 is not a perfect game. Nevertheless, you can tell from this game whether people wanted to develop this classic group role-playing game. Each act has its own cosmos in which the player's decisions affect other things immediately and later. In the same act or later. No Dragon Age has ever done that before, except maybe swapping names on some letter. Skills, talents and spells influence the competence or lack of competence of the leading character, how they can or cannot act. In battles, verbal conflicts or when exploring the area. I would have liked Dragon Age Origins a lot more if, in situations like the injured soldier in the Korkari Wilds, you could have used the healing spell if the mage had learnt it. But there are no such situations. In Dragon Age Inquisition, character values play no role at all. And they can't, because they are predetermined. What's more, if you play The Dark Urge you are a protagonist who is also somehow the mastermind behind the whole Thread. You can basically say the same thing about the Inquisitor, he ran to the Orb, he took the Orb and triggered the explosion. Even when he remembers this, it's not even mentioned. The controls work much better in BG3 because the companions do what they are supposed to do. In Inquisition, I play on easy and just let the ranged fighters knock themselves out in melee and damage range. After all, they get back up with half their health bar at the end of the fight anyway. Why should I worry about them and make my life unnecessarily difficult? First that is not stirctly speaking accurate. At least in earlier DA games and even in Inquisition you do get different dialogue options based on stats, background, or even perks you take which can effect outcomes lead to different options of solving problems, recruiting agents, or giving you different ways of exploring the world. And then there are other things like drinking from the Well of Sorrows has a direct effect on your ability to understand ancient Elven language, codex entries, and even speak to the guardians in Tresspasser. Is this something that DA could do better in? Maybe. Reactivity is a nice little thing to have for games, IE the game world acknowledging and adapting to your choices...but in the end to you also lose something when a game becomes too reactive and ultimatley BioWare's ability to let you express character via dialogue choices is second to none...BG III is good in the reactivity department though. Like in that situation with the Kocari Wilds that guy was being infected with the Blight. His death was a narrative way of showing how serious the Blight was because in universe the Blight is a very lethal disease where even the best healing potions and magics can't really stop, maybe only delay. Otherwise if the Blight was easily curable in lore then it would be. Thus it did not matter how much healing magic you would've had that would've been contrary to the lore of the setting... which just would've compounded BioWare's mistakes with the healing magic in the first place. Again BioWare was making a point by railroading you in that instance which helped establish world, setting, and character. Ultimatley though that is kind of the thing. BioWare RPGs and D&D just have two fundamentally different values/ gameplay loops. BioWare's dialogue system is ultimatley about building characters by reacting to other characters. Have I often wondered how they would be able to handle a more 'special' dialogue system where your dex scores and stuff can help determine the options your character can take and have hidden dice rolls to add an element of risk? Sure. But I don't know how such a shift in focus would change the Dragon Age formula which I do prefer, being able to just talk with characters and having characters bounce off of one another which helps build them. If DA focusses too much on a D&D approach rather then doing their own thing then the franchise will lose one of its best draws. Meanwhile D&D in all the incarnations I have seen has always been about mathemtically solving problems. You have a set of rules, a set of obstacles, and you have scores your character can do. Its just two different ways of doing RPGs.
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 14, 2024 20:58:08 GMT
In the DA wiki, a statement by Gaider was used in which he says that they wanted to use Skyhold more. However, it had become too complicated for the end user (Their words), which is why the finale was moved to the Temple of Sacred Ashes. That's why the upgrades are only cosmetic.
Baldur's Gate 3 is not a perfect game. Nevertheless, you can tell from this game whether people wanted to develop this classic group role-playing game. Each act has its own cosmos in which the player's decisions affect other things immediately and later. In the same act or later. No Dragon Age has ever done that before, except maybe swapping names on some letter. Skills, talents and spells influence the competence or lack of competence of the leading character, how they can or cannot act. In battles, verbal conflicts or when exploring the area. I would have liked Dragon Age Origins a lot more if, in situations like the injured soldier in the Korkari Wilds, you could have used the healing spell if the mage had learnt it. But there are no such situations. In Dragon Age Inquisition, character values play no role at all. And they can't, because they are predetermined. What's more, if you play The Dark Urge you are a protagonist who is also somehow the mastermind behind the whole Thread. You can basically say the same thing about the Inquisitor, he ran to the Orb, he took the Orb and triggered the explosion. Even when he remembers this, it's not even mentioned. The controls work much better in BG3 because the companions do what they are supposed to do. In Inquisition, I play on easy and just let the ranged fighters knock themselves out in melee and damage range. After all, they get back up with half their health bar at the end of the fight anyway. Why should I worry about them and make my life unnecessarily difficult? First that is not stirctly speaking accurate. At least in earlier DA games and even in Inquisition you do get different dialogue options based on stats, background, or even perks you take which can effect outcomes lead to different options of solving problems, recruiting agents, or giving you different ways of exploring the world. And then there are other things like drinking from the Well of Sorrows has a direct effect on your ability to understand ancient Elven language, codex entries, and even speak to the guardians in Tresspasser. Is this something that DA could do better in? Maybe. Reactivity is a nice little thing to have for games, IE the game world acknowledging and adapting to your choices...but in the end to you also lose something when a game becomes too reactive and ultimatley BioWare's ability to let you express character via dialogue choices is second to none...BG III is good in the reactivity department though. Like in that situation with the Kocari Wilds that guy was being infected with the Blight. His death was a narrative way of showing how serious the Blight was because in universe the Blight is a very lethal disease where even the best healing potions and magics can't really stop, maybe only delay. Otherwise if the Blight was easily curable in lore then it would be. Thus it did not matter how much healing magic you would've had that would've been contrary to the lore of the setting... which just would've compounded BioWare's mistakes with the healing magic in the first place. Again BioWare was making a point by railroading you in that instance which helped establish world, setting, and character. Ultimatley though that is kind of the thing. BioWare RPGs and D&D just have two fundamentally different values/ gameplay loops. BioWare's dialogue system is ultimatley about building characters by reacting to other characters. Have I often wondered how they would be able to handle a more 'special' dialogue system where your dex scores and stuff can help determine the options your character can take and have hidden dice rolls to add an element of risk? Sure. But I don't know how such a shift in focus would change the Dragon Age formula which I do prefer, being able to just talk with characters and having characters bounce off of one another which helps build them. If DA focusses too much on a D&D approach rather then doing their own thing then the franchise will lose one of its best draws. Meanwhile D&D in all the incarnations I have seen has always been about mathemtically solving problems. You have a set of rules, a set of obstacles, and you have scores your character can do. Its just two different ways of doing RPGs. I’ve noticed a min/max mentality that is also more prevalent in D&D systems. Probably why I rarely even do the tabletop anymore since most I have gamed with min/max to the point it becomes a generic experience. I think that’s why I’ve enjoyed MEA and DAI so much… neither system is built around min/maxing. It is about creating a unique character and just bouncing off other characters first. Even if that means combat is overall easier.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 14, 2024 23:10:00 GMT
First that is not stirctly speaking accurate. At least in earlier DA games and even in Inquisition you do get different dialogue options based on stats, background, or even perks you take which can effect outcomes lead to different options of solving problems, recruiting agents, or giving you different ways of exploring the world. And then there are other things like drinking from the Well of Sorrows has a direct effect on your ability to understand ancient Elven language, codex entries, and even speak to the guardians in Tresspasser. Is this something that DA could do better in? Maybe. Reactivity is a nice little thing to have for games, IE the game world acknowledging and adapting to your choices...but in the end to you also lose something when a game becomes too reactive and ultimatley BioWare's ability to let you express character via dialogue choices is second to none...BG III is good in the reactivity department though. Like in that situation with the Kocari Wilds that guy was being infected with the Blight. His death was a narrative way of showing how serious the Blight was because in universe the Blight is a very lethal disease where even the best healing potions and magics can't really stop, maybe only delay. Otherwise if the Blight was easily curable in lore then it would be. Thus it did not matter how much healing magic you would've had that would've been contrary to the lore of the setting... which just would've compounded BioWare's mistakes with the healing magic in the first place. Again BioWare was making a point by railroading you in that instance which helped establish world, setting, and character. Ultimatley though that is kind of the thing. BioWare RPGs and D&D just have two fundamentally different values/ gameplay loops. BioWare's dialogue system is ultimatley about building characters by reacting to other characters. Have I often wondered how they would be able to handle a more 'special' dialogue system where your dex scores and stuff can help determine the options your character can take and have hidden dice rolls to add an element of risk? Sure. But I don't know how such a shift in focus would change the Dragon Age formula which I do prefer, being able to just talk with characters and having characters bounce off of one another which helps build them. If DA focusses too much on a D&D approach rather then doing their own thing then the franchise will lose one of its best draws. Meanwhile D&D in all the incarnations I have seen has always been about mathemtically solving problems. You have a set of rules, a set of obstacles, and you have scores your character can do. Its just two different ways of doing RPGs. I’ve noticed a min/max mentality that is also more prevalent in D&D systems. Probably why I rarely even do the tabletop anymore since most I have gamed with min/max to the point it becomes a generic experience. I think that’s why I’ve enjoyed MEA and DAI so much… neither system is built around min/maxing. It is about creating a unique character and just bouncing off other characters first. Even if that means combat is overall easier. exactly. That's another issue with the more D&D and stats based dialogue systems and even morality systems fall prey to this. Where if you have a mathematically better chance to deceive someone then persuade them then naturally you're going to be tempted to do that. But if you are playing a paragon of virtue then you'd either have to break your Rp or choose the less likely to succeed option. Which is fine I imagine some people do just that, even me, but then it sort of falls victim to a different kind of railroading. Because if you start off as a thief with thief bonuses but intend on becoming a noble warrior then D&Ds systems from what I've seen makes it harder to do that kind of character arc. Meanwhile you can in ME and DA.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 14, 2024 23:41:19 GMT
Yes u strongly disagree with every point you make I have no problem with the world design itself. It’s pure laziness -the mage encounter could be so much more -the dealer is a chore filled with unremarkable encounters that are lifeless such as the dog merchant -if you meet an npc. You recruit them and never see 1/2 of the hinterland recruits again. The rest are lifeless bots. There’s zero roleplaying! It’s 1 step above Minecraft and it’s poor compared to dragon age Forget Bg3 as people can’t accept that dai is mostly a forgotten game as the Witcher 3 just swept it into the bargain bin Dao dwarven origin alone has more life than anything in dai. The franchises foundation is based on some of the most memorable characters in that setting alone. We have a dwarven npcs for dai and we got 2 memorable npcs. I’d argue that leske is more memorable than renn and only a fraction of dao players have ever met leske The mad hermit in dao. That should be been the minimum character type we should have encountered in the stormcoast Fallow mire we get 2 memorable npcs Hand of korth-it’s a cool fight but pales in comparison to awakening baroness of black marsh Amund-shows up and joins you but once again where’s the beef Now I just watch an awakening video of black marsh. They come across a body and characters comment and you get cutscenes and fast combat So other than graphics how is the fallow mire more interesting than black marsh. Da2 references black marsh with anders and varric having a conversation. There’s none of that in dai If I were running BioWare I would redo dao except dialogue. Add todays graphics and combat and you have a complete game Keep arguing please Why are people are so obsessed in going backwards lol? For all the talk of wanting different games, people always seems to go back to the old ways.
HM... going forward we get Anthem... a disaster. A lesser one is Andromeda, though I believe EA was to quick to pull the trigger..
DAO dialogue is 2nd to none. DA2 is a close 2nd... Char wise the Arishok arc is stunning. DAI's dialogue is dialed downed compared to the previous two. I did not play Trespasser.
Opinions are subjective by definition. Thus, a game resonates differently to many players and can blind a player to another's perception... mine included.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 15, 2024 2:09:00 GMT
Meanwhile you can in ME and DA. What? ME is notorious for railroading you down P/R.
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Post by TabithaTH on Feb 15, 2024 9:15:46 GMT
exactly. That's another issue with the more D&D and stats based dialogue systems and even morality systems fall prey to this. Where if you have a mathematically better chance to deceive someone then persuade them then naturally you're going to be tempted to do that. But if you are playing a paragon of virtue then you'd either have to break your Rp or choose the less likely to succeed option. Which is fine I imagine some people do just that, even me, but then it sort of falls victim to a different kind of railroading. Because if you start off as a thief with thief bonuses but intend on becoming a noble warrior then D&Ds systems from what I've seen makes it harder to do that kind of character arc. Meanwhile you can in ME and DA. Alignments aren’t really a thing anymore in 5e. Maybe except Paladins and their oath, but even then there’s a certain amount of flexibility. Plus becoming an oathbreaker can be a good narrative in itself. While respec (usually) isn’t a thing you do in an actual game of DnD, in BG3 specifically, you can always do just that to roleplay whatever narrative you want. If you're brave enough, you can even multiclass. In regards to how to resolve dialogue, just choose a preferred method to be proficient in at CC. In BG3 you can always respec and in IRL games you’re free to phrase it in a way that makes sense for you and your character. Not that I don't agree with you being pushed toards certain responses because of the mechanics.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2024 11:40:33 GMT
Meanwhile you can in ME and DA. What? ME is notorious for railroading you down P/R. Yes and no. Afterall 1. As I mentioned some railroading is hard to avoid especially in the context of a CRPG. 2. This is generally something ME got better at. ME 1 was by far the worse offender. Probably owing to the fact that they designed a lot of it in mind with multiple playthroughs. But the system was further complicated by not only was your paragon and renegade score important...but they also had you investing points in a Paragon Renegade skill which also helped dictate what options were available to you... and were influneced and opened by you going paragon and renegade. Thus it was literally a situation where you had to do very specific things and, at least on many of my first playthroughs, most of the options weren't even really available. Then to make matters worse ME 1 also had quests specifically tied to your scores as well. I am not sure I ever got those quests even to this day, or at least the renegade one. ME 2 improved things by ditching most of the cumbersome nature of this system. Granted there were a couple of really high octane choices that were difficult to get...but it was also possible since during one playthrough I was able to max out both my Paragon and Renegade scores in a single imported playthrough from ME 1 and thus was able to get all the dialogue options I needed, even the Morinth one. So its certainly possible. By the time of ME 3 they added two new wriggles into the system, which more or less helped. First a general reputation score was important which took both your interactions into account as well as your morality score. Basically as long as you talked to people in general it helped give you charm and intimidate options so you no longer had to go out of your way to do paragon and renegade options to get those unlocked, hence decreasing your need to be railroaded. Then they also tied some of your charm/intimidate options to specific choices you made throughout the game and even the trilogy. Like with the Geth, the Krogans, and the Illusive Man come most instantly to mind here. This made it so it wasn't a question of some random morality socre you did but the actual choices you made, a much more logical way of handling morality. However at least in the case of the Illusive Man it also led to railroading in its own right because you had to choose all charm or all intimidate options to benefit from an additional scene at the end of the game, different outcome. By the time we get to Andromeda they removed the morality system entirely and went to the entire character/personality based dialogue system from Dragon Age thus pretty much removing any morality based railroading, you no longer have to grind for points. Though perhaps if you want to suck up to the pretty girl or the cool Krogan you now have to choose dialogue options that please them, but that is a very...realistic...form of railroading.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Feb 15, 2024 19:04:28 GMT
Why are people are so obsessed in going backwards lol? For all the talk of wanting different games, people always seems to go back to the old ways.
DA2 is a close 2nd... Char wise the Arishok arc is stunning.
A question: Why does everyone seem to think that the Arishok is a great character? He talks in circles, never explaining a god damn thing, is just annoying, and just complains about everything and everybody and at the end of his arc to the point he acts like a bored idiot.
He explains very little about the qunari any way (as government, philosophy, and etc) and yeah I know he says "we didn't come here to teach" (or something to that effect). Honestly I hated Sten and the Arishok because they just talk in circles and don't give me any clue into who and what qunari are, it was Tallis and The Iron Bull that finally made the qunari interesting to me.
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Post by river82 on Feb 15, 2024 21:09:39 GMT
ME 1 was by far the worse offender. Probably owing to the fact that they designed a lot of it in mind with multiple playthroughs. But the system was further complicated by not only was your paragon and renegade score important...but they also had you investing points in a Paragon Renegade skill which also helped dictate what options were available to you... and were influneced and opened by you going paragon and renegade. Thus it was literally a situation where you had to do very specific things and, at least on many of my first playthroughs, most of the options weren't even really available. Then to make matters worse ME 1 also had quests specifically tied to your scores as well. I am not sure I ever got those quests even to this day, or at least the renegade one. Because ME was Bioware's take on Star Wars and this sort of thing was in KOTOR IIRC.
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