ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Feb 20, 2024 0:54:30 GMT
Why are people are so obsessed in going backwards lol? For all the talk of wanting different games, people always seems to go back to the old ways.
Well it's old "it was better in the old days!" excuse. Some people are so extremely nostalgic for "the good ole days" that even if we all went back to the Windows 95 and the NES they would complain that they miss the current day games. I think some people are way to hung up for a past that never was good and in some cases never existed at all. You can't please them and when you do they still complain. That is why I think major media companies aren't as interested in listening to the ultra hardcore "fans" because it's such a small part of the market that catering exclusively to them all the time would bankrupt many companies.
Maybe, but it could also be that in many ways older games were better.
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Post by river82 on Feb 20, 2024 2:07:30 GMT
Well it's old "it was better in the old days!" excuse. Some people are so extremely nostalgic for "the good ole days" that even if we all went back to the Windows 95 and the NES they would complain that they miss the current day games. I think some people are way to hung up for a past that never was good and in some cases never existed at all. You can't please them and when you do they still complain. That is why I think major media companies aren't as interested in listening to the ultra hardcore "fans" because it's such a small part of the market that catering exclusively to them all the time would bankrupt many companies.
Maybe, but it could also be that in many ways older games were better.
To be fair when people say modern gaming is terrible it really only refers to specific genres. The RPG genre is in a really healthy place right now TBH. Shooters no, but the modern RPG genre is in a really nice place. It has both variety for lots of people's tastes and some really huge blockbusters like Elden Ring
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Post by fairdragon on Feb 21, 2024 10:05:26 GMT
Maybe, but it could also be that in many ways older games were better.
To be fair when people say modern gaming is terrible it really only refers to specific genres. The RPG genre is in a really healthy place right now TBH. Shooters no, but the modern RPG genre is in a really nice place. It has both variety for lots of people's tastes and some really huge blockbusters like Elden Ring Their is my problem. Elden Ring is like the witcher a RPG i can't play. To hard gameplay. Good RPGs are better than they were a few years ago, but not as many as I would have wished. So i hope DAD will be playabel for me. And yes i loved the good old real time with pause days i played BG and DAO hours and hours. And i still play them today.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 21, 2024 12:15:14 GMT
Some old RPGs have better value. Take DAO and DA2. Regardless of any warts they have, I've played the games many a times. DAI? just once.
Today's games are, by design, a monetization vehicle for the publishers. Mobile game more so. Loot boxes are psychologically designed to become addictive and monetized, unlike the good 'ole RPG games that were not. Today's games cost a fortune to make and super bug infested (many AAA ones) at launch. Plus publishers are public owned companies beholden only to investors and shareholders. That alone tells you where their priorities lie. In other words, I find less player value in modern RPGs... Bio RPGs..
BG3, on the other hand, has great player value... a much greater value over DAI or Anthem. BG3 is a "good 'ole game' in my view. It has tons of re-playability value, non-linear story arc, multiple ways to finish a quest, hitting "space" skips a cinematic. a "magic mirror" for ingame CC tweaking.... a positive when entertaining multiple playthroughs. PLUS it is designed for modding!!! ! The latter alone increases my fun with the game.
Bio will give us (imo) a bare bones Dragon Age game.... the studio has to cut costs somewhere in game development.
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Feb 21, 2024 13:55:41 GMT
I love BG3 but there is one place I think they haven't surpassed Bioware with. And that's pure drama. Playing BG3 I haven't once felt really moved. There's no Leliana's song, or The Dawn Will Come (which moves me to tears every time), or Tali's sacrifice if you choose the Geth over the Quarians. I've heard Karlach's end might get that, but I haven't done that yet.
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TabithaTH
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Post by TabithaTH on Feb 21, 2024 17:07:51 GMT
If you want drama, I have three words for you: House Of Hope. Best boss battle ever… Though also very annoying.
But seriously.
There is kinda a Lellianans song part. You can help a bard finish her song and she sings it. She died on my first PT, so can’t say for sure, but she may have more content later in the game?
At the end of Astarions good ending, there’s an extra choice. That one got me way more than his actual questline. The tragedy of it all. No easy answer, no correct or objectively ‘best’ result. No matter what, a lot of innocents are going to suffer. By far the toughest decision for me in the whole game. I ended up playing into my character which was definitely the most reckless choice.
There is a choice towards the end that could be tough depending on who you play and who you romance. For instance, I have plans for a Gith bard that’s supposed to romance Karlach, so yeah… that’s going to be a tough one.
Edit: Also, playing as a Dark Urge trying to fight their urges has a very satisfying end to their personal quest. Especially if you've invested time in Jaheira.
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Feb 21, 2024 23:29:12 GMT
There is kinda a Lellianans song part. You can help a bard finish her song and she sings it. Although I really like that bit, it doesn't get the emotional response I got from Leliana's song and her talk around it. Leliana forced me to change the path I was taking, I haven't got that from BG3 despite two almost complete PT's. Although I haven't done the House of Hope with either of them yet.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 22, 2024 1:18:11 GMT
Maybe, but it could also be that in many ways older games were better.
To be fair when people say modern gaming is terrible it really only refers to specific genres. The RPG genre is in a really healthy place right now TBH. Shooters no, but the modern RPG genre is in a really nice place. It has both variety for lots of people's tastes and some really huge blockbusters like Elden Ring Yet people talk about modern gaming as if it means all gaming not the ones they like. Youtubers really need to tone down the rage and actually articulate their message.
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Post by river82 on Feb 22, 2024 1:20:48 GMT
To be fair when people say modern gaming is terrible it really only refers to specific genres. The RPG genre is in a really healthy place right now TBH. Shooters no, but the modern RPG genre is in a really nice place. It has both variety for lots of people's tastes and some really huge blockbusters like Elden Ring Yet people talk about modern gaming as if it means all gaming not the ones they like. Youtubers really need to tone down the rage and actually articulate their message. Yeah and this really annoys me. Like, if you aren't a shooter fan or a sports fan ... there's plenty of games for you out there. Especially if you look outside of the AAAA field.
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Post by TabithaTH on Feb 22, 2024 7:37:00 GMT
There is kinda a Lellianans song part. You can help a bard finish her song and she sings it. Although I really like that bit, it doesn't get the emotional response I got from Leliana's song and her talk around it. Leliana forced me to change the path I was taking, I haven't got that from BG3 despite two almost complete PT's. Although I haven't done the House of Hope with either of them yet. Tbh, the House of Hope mention was meant as a bit of a joke. It’s definitely filled with drama, just in a bit more literal sense than an emotional one. Though there is an npc that should have a trigger warning. I, at least went in thinking 'haha, let's see where this silly joke character leads' and ended with a 'ok, this is actually making me really uncomfortable' so I reloaded and chose to fight instead. And like I mentioned in my edit, if you haven’t played Good Guy Dark Urge, it was probably the most satisfying narrative I’ve played in a while.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 22, 2024 7:48:40 GMT
Although I really like that bit, it doesn't get the emotional response I got from Leliana's song and her talk around it. Leliana forced me to change the path I was taking, I haven't got that from BG3 despite two almost complete PT's. Although I haven't done the House of Hope with either of them yet. Tbh, the House of Hope mention was meant as a bit of a joke. It’s definitely filled with drama, just in a bit more literal sense than an emotional one. Though there is an npc that should have a trigger warning. I, at least went in thinking 'haha, let's see where this silly joke character leads' and ended with a 'ok, this is actually making me really uncomfortable' so I reloaded and chose to fight instead. And like I mentioned in my edit, if you haven’t played Good Guy Dark Urge, it was probably the most satisfying narrative I’ve played in a while. Exxpppiiiirrrreeee. That kind of drama?
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Post by TabithaTH on Feb 22, 2024 11:44:10 GMT
Tbh, the House of Hope mention was meant as a bit of a joke. It’s definitely filled with drama, just in a bit more literal sense than an emotional one. Though there is an npc that should have a trigger warning. I, at least went in thinking 'haha, let's see where this silly joke character leads' and ended with a 'ok, this is actually making me really uncomfortable' so I reloaded and chose to fight instead. And like I mentioned in my edit, if you haven’t played Good Guy Dark Urge, it was probably the most satisfying narrative I’ve played in a while. Exxpppiiiirrrreeee. That kind of drama? Took me a sec to get, but yes exactly what I meant…
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Cyberstrike
N4
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Post by Cyberstrike on Feb 22, 2024 14:40:15 GMT
To be fair when people say modern gaming is terrible it really only refers to specific genres. The RPG genre is in a really healthy place right now TBH. Shooters no, but the modern RPG genre is in a really nice place. It has both variety for lots of people's tastes and some really huge blockbusters like Elden Ring Yet people talk about modern gaming as if it means all gaming not the ones they like. Youtubers really need to tone down the rage and actually articulate their message.
Or YouTubers and other so-called "influencers" on other social media sites thinking that just because they don't like MEA means that everyone doesn't like and the player/user scores on many digital stores don't bare that out, MEA is at 4.2 out of 5 on PS Store and has a lot more positive reviews than negative reviews by overwhelming amount (seriously the 5 star reviews for MEA on the PS Store is like the majority). It's always about the Metacritic or Rotten Tomatoes scores (which honestly BOTH are the most worthless review sites due to constant review bombings and sketchy details on how those reviews are generated and if they were bought by a mega corp and closed down permanently by them I wouldn't be crying over the loss of useless POS sites just the employees working at those sites would be the ones I would feel bad for).
They flatten criticism to it's a simply it's the greatest or it's worst and no room for nuance and a piece of media just being fine; it's not a classic and not a piece of shit. There are more fine or OK media than there are great or even good media. The same with good media you can't review for a good game anymore it's either a great or it's a POS. There is no middle ground.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 24, 2024 1:04:52 GMT
I love BG3 but there is one place I think they haven't surpassed Bioware with. And that's pure drama. Playing BG3 I haven't once felt really moved. There's no Leliana's song, or The Dawn Will Come (which moves me to tears every time), or Tali's sacrifice if you choose the Geth over the Quarians. I've heard Karlach's end might get that, but I haven't done that yet.s I think BG3 is pretty overrated. It is held up by being good in a niche game play experience. The story is mid, the character meh. while there are choices and consequences and you can see a hundred variations to one event, when the story and characters are so bad I just don't give a crap. Having tons of variations to a bad snack doesn't change that the snack is bad. But the game play is pretty dang fun, though for anyone familiar with their games or is adept at rules reading you kind of have to self nerf pretty hard and add some extra restrictions on your gameplay to not walk over even honor mode.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 25, 2024 22:57:06 GMT
I think BG3 is pretty overrated. It is held up by being good in a niche game play experience. The story is mid, the character meh. while there are choices and consequences and you can see a hundred variations to one event, when the story and characters are so bad I just don't give a crap. Having tons of variations to a bad snack doesn't change that the snack is bad. The mere existence of Dame Aylin proves you wrong!
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Feb 26, 2024 23:52:26 GMT
I think BG3 is pretty overrated. It is held up by being good in a niche game play experience. The story is mid, the character meh. while there are choices and consequences and you can see a hundred variations to one event, when the story and characters are so bad I just don't give a crap. Having tons of variations to a bad snack doesn't change that the snack is bad. The mere existence of Dame Aylin proves you wrong! No, it does not.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 27, 2024 15:22:09 GMT
The mere existence of Dame Aylin proves you wrong! No, it does not. Yes it does, with the same amount of evidence you put forward for BG3 being overrated and crap.
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Post by wickedcool on Feb 27, 2024 18:14:00 GMT
So clearly we have diehards on both sides here. I’ve played both to death and have been a fan of da since origins
So for those who are defending da to the death i have questions
1 if you watched the dai development video did you wish the shown features were there
2 do you miss the hair choices from dao and da2
3 are the monsters in dai perfect. Do you prefer spawns over set monsters
4 hunting for blueprints and save scumming or a mix of both that are equal
5 npcs in hinterlands are perfect? Way better than even dao?
6 reused dungeons in dai were fine. Example comes to mind is the dwarven outpost which if you explore you potentially go back with varric or even a third time to close dark spawn holes
I could go on but I know that many would say there’s nothing I would take from Bg3 and hey that’s your prerogative but would you take elements from previous dragon age games
So I would Beards and hair and I’d actually prefer a da2 face sculpt instead of dai I’d take the family aspects of dao and da2 Bring back minor villians like bhelen etc No spawns or waves. Dao did it best even though it was waves you knew they were there as opposed to just appearing such as bears I’d take the quests from dao and the rewards/consequences from quests Random camp attacks when fast traveling Snarky hawke She de quests like friends in low places
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Post by river82 on Feb 27, 2024 20:11:31 GMT
So clearly we have diehards on both sides here. I’ve played both to death and have been a fan of da since origins So for those who are defending da to the death i have questions 1 if you watched the dai development video did you wish the shown features were there 2 do you miss the hair choices from dao and da2 3 are the monsters in dai perfect. Do you prefer spawns over set monsters 4 hunting for blueprints and save scumming or a mix of both that are equal 5 npcs in hinterlands are perfect? Way better than even dao? 6 reused dungeons in dai were fine. Example comes to mind is the dwarven outpost which if you explore you potentially go back with varric or even a third time to close dark spawn holes I could go on but I know that many would say there’s nothing I would take from Bg3 and hey that’s your prerogative but would you take elements from previous dragon age games So I would Beards and hair and I’d actually prefer a da2 face sculpt instead of dai I’d take the family aspects of dao and da2 Bring back minor villians like bhelen etc No spawns or waves. Dao did it best even though it was waves you knew they were there as opposed to just appearing such as bears I’d take the quests from dao and the rewards/consequences from quests Random camp attacks when fast traveling Snarky hawke She de quests like friends in low places Not a DA defender but the biggest thing I'd take from BG3 is the commitment behind a specific combat design. We spend a lot of time in combat in DA and when we have a hybrid mash up mess like in DA:I or an action-lite game like in DA2, it makes the experience less than fun. Sub-fun. After that comes the other stuff, but it'd be good if DA:D was actually fun to play ...
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Post by colfoley on Feb 27, 2024 21:56:51 GMT
So clearly we have diehards on both sides here. I’ve played both to death and have been a fan of da since origins So for those who are defending da to the death i have questions 1 if you watched the dai development video did you wish the shown features were there 2 do you miss the hair choices from dao and da2 3 are the monsters in dai perfect. Do you prefer spawns over set monsters 4 hunting for blueprints and save scumming or a mix of both that are equal 5 npcs in hinterlands are perfect? Way better than even dao? 6 reused dungeons in dai were fine. Example comes to mind is the dwarven outpost which if you explore you potentially go back with varric or even a third time to close dark spawn holes I could go on but I know that many would say there’s nothing I would take from Bg3 and hey that’s your prerogative but would you take elements from previous dragon age games So I would Beards and hair and I’d actually prefer a da2 face sculpt instead of dai I’d take the family aspects of dao and da2 Bring back minor villians like bhelen etc No spawns or waves. Dao did it best even though it was waves you knew they were there as opposed to just appearing such as bears I’d take the quests from dao and the rewards/consequences from quests Random camp attacks when fast traveling Snarky hawke She de quests like friends in low places Now I am one of the biggest DA fans out there and still skeptical to how some things work in BG but even then from watching it and observing it and looking into it I am fairly confident that BG does have a lot to teach DA in at least a few ways. Namely the two biggest things would be reactivity (as long as DA doesen't sacrifice their attention to character and story and RP in the process), but BGs reactivity has certainly been impressive. And environmental combat. It was supposed to be one of the things that Frostbite was able to bring to Inquisition...and Andromeda...but at least I was never able to work meanwhile using your environment in BG is not only a feature but in some cases even seems to be a preference as you can do a lot of thigns if you can put the thought into it. That may be hard to implement, for whatever reason, in an ARPG but definitley something they should look at. So clearly we have diehards on both sides here. I’ve played both to death and have been a fan of da since origins So for those who are defending da to the death i have questions 1 if you watched the dai development video did you wish the shown features were there 2 do you miss the hair choices from dao and da2 3 are the monsters in dai perfect. Do you prefer spawns over set monsters 4 hunting for blueprints and save scumming or a mix of both that are equal 5 npcs in hinterlands are perfect? Way better than even dao? 6 reused dungeons in dai were fine. Example comes to mind is the dwarven outpost which if you explore you potentially go back with varric or even a third time to close dark spawn holes I could go on but I know that many would say there’s nothing I would take from Bg3 and hey that’s your prerogative but would you take elements from previous dragon age games So I would Beards and hair and I’d actually prefer a da2 face sculpt instead of dai I’d take the family aspects of dao and da2 Bring back minor villians like bhelen etc No spawns or waves. Dao did it best even though it was waves you knew they were there as opposed to just appearing such as bears I’d take the quests from dao and the rewards/consequences from quests Random camp attacks when fast traveling Snarky hawke She de quests like friends in low places Not a DA defender but the biggest thing I'd take from BG3 is the commitment behind a specific combat design. We spend a lot of time in combat in DA and when we have a hybrid mash up mess like in DA:I or an action-lite game like in DA2, it makes the experience less than fun. Sub-fun. After that comes the other stuff, but it'd be good if DA:D was actually fun to play ... On this though contextually I'm not sure how much I agree. Given that DA has actually maintained pretty consistent combat design, DAO was a bit of an outlier since it was also a 'spiritual successor to the original Baldur's Gate' it did have some throwbacks...but otherwise DA has always been pretty consitently an ARPG. As much as Mass Effect pretty much with their pause and play and tactical options. The problem is that DA hasn't always been a good ARPG. Each one of the three games has had pretty serious design flaws and some really weird gameplay decisions that have made their gameplay less then fun, or less then ideal, even if in some cases they were neccessary evils. Though at least personally each one of the DA games has certainly been less flawed and more personally enjoyable then the last so at least they are trending in the right direction and given how enjoyable Andromeda's combat was (though Anthem's was a bit...weird to) and given how many good examples there have been of Sword and Sorcery Action games/ ARPGs think this is something they could really get like and given the bits of DA combat that are most likely to continue over into Dreadwolf (based on what we saw in the leaks) I am pretty confident that the formula is going to have found its best expression.
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Post by river82 on Feb 27, 2024 22:09:01 GMT
The problem is that DA hasn't always been a good ARPG. Each one of the three games has had pretty serious design flaws and some really weird gameplay decisions that have made their gameplay less then fun, or less then ideal, even if in some cases they were neccessary evils. Though at least personally each one of the DA games has certainly been less flawed and more personally enjoyable then the last so at least they are trending in the right direction and given how enjoyable Andromeda's combat was (though Anthem's was a bit...weird to) and given how many good examples there have been of Sword and Sorcery Action games/ ARPGs think this is something they could really get like and given the bits of DA combat that are most likely to continue over into Dreadwolf (based on what we saw in the leaks) I am pretty confident that the formula is going to have found its best expression. Pretty much this, yeah. The it's raining men thing in DA2 in what was a pretty superficial action system, and the trying to appease tactical fans in DA:I when they in hindsight should have just gone straight action. The problem is the combat in RPGs over the past 10 years has really taken a step forward I feel. Back in 2010 you had Skyrim and whatever the fudge that was, but now expectations are a bit higher
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Post by colfoley on Feb 27, 2024 22:15:32 GMT
The problem is that DA hasn't always been a good ARPG. Each one of the three games has had pretty serious design flaws and some really weird gameplay decisions that have made their gameplay less then fun, or less then ideal, even if in some cases they were neccessary evils. Though at least personally each one of the DA games has certainly been less flawed and more personally enjoyable then the last so at least they are trending in the right direction and given how enjoyable Andromeda's combat was (though Anthem's was a bit...weird to) and given how many good examples there have been of Sword and Sorcery Action games/ ARPGs think this is something they could really get like and given the bits of DA combat that are most likely to continue over into Dreadwolf (based on what we saw in the leaks) I am pretty confident that the formula is going to have found its best expression. Pretty much this, yeah. The it's raining men thing in DA2 in what was a pretty superficial action system, and the trying to appease tactical fans in DA:I when they in hindsight should have just gone straight action. The problem is the combat in RPGs over the past 10 years has really taken a step forward I feel. Back in 2010 you had Skyrim and whatever the fudge that was, but now expectations are a bit higher yeah will be disagreement on this and something I've commented on but witchers combat really started the trend and moved the genre forward in terms of combat. Then not sure who started it, and not sure how I feel about it, but the genre has been moved forward again with the attack warning colors thing, ie the GoW colored rings, for blocking and dodging. Really looking forward to seeing how Dreadwolf not only incorporates these gameplay tropes but also carrying over tropes/lessons from DAI.
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Kabraxal
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 28, 2024 0:36:08 GMT
I’m foolishly hoping that if DW apes anything, it’s FFVIIR for combat. Took the old ATB and merged it well into a fairly tactical real time action combat on harder difficulties. I think DA’s overall formula works best with that over pure Dark Souls generic action or BG3’s tabletop experience.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 28, 2024 1:14:04 GMT
I’m foolishly hoping that if DW apes anything, it’s FFVIIR for combat. Took the old ATB and merged it well into a fairly tactical real time action combat on harder difficulties. I think DA’s overall formula works best with that over pure Dark Souls generic action or BG3’s tabletop experience. R as in Rebirth? I suppose that is something I need to consider if/when I get along to playing the demo for the game.
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Kabraxal
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 28, 2024 1:45:41 GMT
I’m foolishly hoping that if DW apes anything, it’s FFVIIR for combat. Took the old ATB and merged it well into a fairly tactical real time action combat on harder difficulties. I think DA’s overall formula works best with that over pure Dark Souls generic action or BG3’s tabletop experience. R as in Rebirth? I suppose that is something I need to consider if/when I get along to playing the demo for the game. Remake. The first of the FFVII trilogy. Rebirth is the one releasing this week. It is likely very similar though, but I can’t say until the full game drops.
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