Croatsky
N4
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Croatsky on Aug 23, 2023 23:39:55 GMT
So looks like SWTOR moving to another studio was bad for Edmonton as an ex-Dev expected when the news happened. Looks like BioWare was using the game revenue to keep Edmonton afloat and now they can't anymore so "cut". Oh, I completely forgot about that!
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DragonRacer
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BSN Jesus
My Mattock brings all the boys to the yard...
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: DragonRacer
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
PSN: DragonRacer13
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Post by DragonRacer on Aug 23, 2023 23:56:27 GMT
Just saw Renata Cronin post on Twitter that she is among the 50. I am not sure if she was still big in the DA Keep team, but she was my main form of contact when our beta group was working with them on the Keep. More and more these days, I know so few people left at BioWare whom were cherished contacts for all the positive cupcake shenanigans.
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Post by river82 on Aug 24, 2023 2:16:28 GMT
More and more these days, I know so few people left at BioWare whom were cherished contacts for all the positive cupcake shenanigans. They've bled so much expertise and knowledge. It doesn't matter how much money you have if you don't have the knowledge base in the company as Amazon found out the hard way, and they've been getting rid of so much.
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Post by General Mahad on Aug 24, 2023 3:15:49 GMT
Dreadwolf is going to suffer the same fate as Andromeda, isn't it?
And it will be the fault of EA bean-counters and suits, again.
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Post by river82 on Aug 24, 2023 3:48:31 GMT
So looks like SWTOR moving to another studio was bad for Edmonton as an ex-Dev expected when the news happened. Looks like BioWare was using the game revenue to keep Edmonton afloat and now they can't anymore so "cut". I have a question. If Bioware was using SWTOR revenue to keep Edmonton afloat, does this mean that SWTOR will be in a better place if Broadsword can redirect that revenue back into the game?
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Post by General Mahad on Aug 24, 2023 4:02:48 GMT
Jeff Grubb claims to know more about the situation at BioWare and he'll be sharing tomorrow.
He's been pretty reliable for game leaks and industry news.
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Post by river82 on Aug 24, 2023 4:16:08 GMT
Jeff Grubb claims to know more about the situation at BioWare and he'll be sharing tomorrow. He's been pretty reliable for game leaks and industry news. Yeah I'm interested to see his take. Just because he's building up the hype for it with that tweet so he's either got something pretty interesting to reveal ... or we're all going to be let down. No pressure, Jeff
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 24, 2023 5:22:28 GMT
Wow. Bloody hell. I've seen my share of outright ridiculous corpo speak but this one may just take the cake. How a smaller team is more creative and productive is just beyond me. I guess it takes a special kind of person to write that level of garbage with a straight face.
And it's sad that they fired Mary Kirby and who knows who else. So many years of great contributions and this is what she gets. But who knows, maybe their new design direction doesn't need as much writing.
"We are confident that we’ll have the time needed to ensure Dreadwolf reaches its full potential." Dude. Just say "delay". Two syllables. Ain't that hard.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Aug 24, 2023 6:16:45 GMT
I know so few people left at BioWare whom were cherished contacts for all the positive cupcake shenanigans. This is the worst bit for me. To lay off so many is horrible, but to cut Mary Kirby and others from the old guard is, quite frankly, disturbing in regards to the future of the company. BioWare is gone. Also the start of that press release is so corporate speak it makes me teeth hurt to read it 😬
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Post by smilesja on Aug 24, 2023 6:19:13 GMT
I know so few people left at BioWare whom were cherished contacts for all the positive cupcake shenanigans. This is the worst bit for me. To lay off so many is horrible, but to cut Mary Kirby and others from the old guard is, quite frankly, disturbing in regards to the future of the company. BioWare is gone. Also the start of that press release is so corporate speak it makes me teeth hurt to read it 😬 Ehhh it's more of the old guard getting laid off rather than Bioware being "gone" but it's still sad to see.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 24, 2023 6:30:22 GMT
Dreadwolf is going to suffer the same fate as Andromeda, isn't it?
And it will be the fault of EA bean-counters and suits, again.
You mean be a good game? Oh, the horror! Thinking back though, Ironically, I feel that EA should've interfered sooner with Bioware especially with Anthem. They've surprisingly treated Bioware with kids' gloves over the years (I know microtransactions and all that, but it was hardly the worst they've treated a studio) but when Bioware management couldn't decide on a direction, it really lead to crunching and burnout. Sometimes you really need to kick upper management and force them to produce a game that you've invested a lot of money in. But still EA is corporate to its core and I don't like how they've treated long time employees as expendable. Sadly, they're not the only ones who engage in this practice.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Aug 24, 2023 6:40:54 GMT
This is the worst bit for me. To lay off so many is horrible, but to cut Mary Kirby and others from the old guard is, quite frankly, disturbing in regards to the future of the company. BioWare is gone. Also the start of that press release is so corporate speak it makes me teeth hurt to read it 😬 Ehhh it's more of the old guard getting laid off rather than Bioware being "gone" but it's still sad to see. Nahh, this pulls them even further away from the team who made my favourite games. It's slowly losing what brought me here in the first place. The new writing on Andromeda and Anthem was crap. If that's who's left then I have little hope going forward
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Post by smilesja on Aug 24, 2023 6:42:32 GMT
Ehhh it's more of the old guard getting laid off rather than Bioware being "gone" but it's still sad to see. Nahh, this pulls them even further away from the team who made my favourite games. It's slowly losing what brought me here in the first place. The new writing on Andromeda and Anthem was crap. If that's who's left then I have little hope going forward The "new" writing in Andromeda was good and games like DA2 bought me into Bioware games. Bioware not "gone" it's just that they're producing games you don't like.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 24, 2023 6:48:44 GMT
Nahh, this pulls them even further away from the team who made my favourite games. It's slowly losing what brought me here in the first place. The new writing on Andromeda and Anthem was crap. If that's who's left then I have little hope going forward The "new" writing in Andromeda was good and games like DA2 bought me into Bioware games. Bioware not "gone" it's just that they're producing games you don't like. That's a very positive way of looking at it. So if your best friend turned into a zombie, would you say he's dead and gone or does he just treat you in a way you don't like now?
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Post by smilesja on Aug 24, 2023 6:50:53 GMT
The "new" writing in Andromeda was good and games like DA2 bought me into Bioware games. Bioware not "gone" it's just that they're producing games you don't like. That's a very positive way of looking at it. So if your best friend turned into a zombie, would you say he's dead and gone or does he just treat you in a way you don't like now? You know, it's people like you that made me uncomfortable in being part of the Bioware fandom when I first joined. I like their current games and don't think it's dead is that so hard to comprehend?
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Agent 46
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 24, 2023 7:00:40 GMT
That's a very positive way of looking at it. So if your best friend turned into a zombie, would you say he's dead and gone or does he just treat you in a way you don't like now? You know, it's people like you that made me uncomfortable in being part of the Bioware fandom when I first joined. I like their current games and don't think it's dead is that so hard to comprehend? I'm sorry, I never mean to make anyone uncomfortable of course. I'll do my best to not reply with anything you might find unsettling in the future, but maybe it's just easier for you to put me on ignore.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 24, 2023 7:03:45 GMT
You know, it's people like you that made me uncomfortable in being part of the Bioware fandom when I first joined. I like their current games and don't think it's dead is that so hard to comprehend? I'm sorry, I never mean to make anyone uncomfortable of course. I'll do my best to not reply with anything you might find unsettling in the future, but maybe it's just easier for you to put me on ignore. Forgive me, I've misinterpreted your post and I apologize. I got overly defensive.
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 24, 2023 7:12:11 GMT
I'm sorry, I never mean to make anyone uncomfortable of course. I'll do my best to not reply with anything you might find unsettling in the future, but maybe it's just easier for you to put me on ignore. Forgive me, I've misinterpreted your post and I apologize. I got overly defensive. No worries at all. In the end we all want to play good games and I sincerely hope BioWare will make something you'll enjoy.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 24, 2023 7:15:37 GMT
Forgive me, I've misinterpreted your post and I apologize. I got overly defensive. No worries at all. In the end we all want to play good games and I sincerely hope BioWare will make something you'll enjoy. No Bioware needs to make games that WE ALL should enjoy not just me, but thanks man you're a good guy.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 24, 2023 7:46:05 GMT
Wow. Bloody hell. I've seen my share of outright ridiculous corpo speak but this one may just take the cake. How a smaller team is more creative and productive is just beyond me. I guess it takes a special kind of person to write that level of garbage with a straight face. And it's sad that they fired Mary Kirby and who knows who else. So many years of great contributions and this is what she gets. But who knows, maybe their new design direction doesn't need as much writing. "We are confident that we’ll have the time needed to ensure Dreadwolf reaches its full potential." Dude. Just say "delay". Two syllables. Ain't that hard. Now specifics and context will vary from case to case and the long term effects of this case are probably not going to see the consequences of this particular decision for a long time to come. But the basics of the logic is still rather sound. Teams can still be too large and unwieldy. Too bloated. Too many indians and not enough chiefs as well as the vice versa. So large where effective decision making is made a lot more complicated and thus things get harder to do, harder to communicate these decisions through an entire team and then get feedback. Hell now that I'm thinking about it I think Mark made a video which at least touched on this subject. So a larger team can be just as much of a problem for these companies as having a small team, and corporate speak or no, a smaller team can be more responsive, reactive, and creative, as a larger one. I know so few people left at BioWare whom were cherished contacts for all the positive cupcake shenanigans. This is the worst bit for me. To lay off so many is horrible, but to cut Mary Kirby and others from the old guard is, quite frankly, disturbing in regards to the future of the company. BioWare is gone. Also the start of that press release is so corporate speak it makes me teeth hurt to read it 😬 I've never really thought that this overly melodramatic argument is especially effective or helpful to any debate. BioWare still exists and they will continue to do so for the forseable future. Indeed since the 'corporate speak' has reaffirmed their commitment to both Dragon Age and Mass Effect moving forward then this still means they have years still. As for the team there have been several people which have been there for years and reprsent the 'old guard'. Fewer and fewer, sure, but BioWare still has people in key leadership positions which have been with the company as long as Mary Kirby. Leadership which will continue to ensure some continuity as they train the next generation, hopefully, of BioWare devs and continue to ensure the companies standars remain. Which while it does suck for the specific people involved we were going to lose Mary Kirby eventually. People retire and people move on from companies all the time or are laid off. Mary Kirby isn't BioWare, BioWare is BioWare and given how much I enjoyed Andromeda and even Anthem having some BioWare staples in it I'm not that concerned by the loss of any one dev. At least not yet. Though a lot will depend on how much these people will be able to pass onto the next generation.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 24, 2023 8:14:08 GMT
Now specifics and context will vary from case to case and the long term effects of this case are probably not going to see the consequences of this particular decision for a long time to come. But the basics of the logic is still rather sound. Teams can still be too large and unwieldy. Too bloated. Too many indians and not enough chiefs as well as the vice versa. So large where effective decision making is made a lot more complicated and thus things get harder to do, harder to communicate these decisions through an entire team and then get feedback. Hell now that I'm thinking about it I think Mark made a video which at least touched on this subject. So a larger team can be just as much of a problem for these companies as having a small team, and corporate speak or no, a smaller team can be more responsive, reactive, and creative, as a larger one. It's true, we may not know the long term consequences for some time to come. Whether they will affect Dreadwolf or not will depend on how far along it is really. Not sure how many chiefs and how many indians were among the 50, but BioWare's biggest problems in the past seem to have been with the chiefs... but oddly enough, when money is tight it's often not management that gets the axe. But that's how it tends to go, sadly. Few things are more antisocial than a publicly traded company.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Aug 24, 2023 8:33:04 GMT
Ordinarily, over the course of a work day, I'd have time to process, think about, then over think this sort of thing. I'd probably have made many posts.
Now - after the day I've just had, I realise I haven't thought about it once since finding out it was happening. I still hope all the things for the people affected. Quick to find new work that brings them joy etc etc. But for Bioware generally? No one is successfully putting lipstick on this pig. You can't sugar coat or silver lining your way out of laying off 20-25% of your workforce.
Maybe this is all part of a grand plan to improve efficiency or quality or something else at Bioware *insert Dark Knight Joker meme here* but having a plan and having the plan be good are not mutually inclusive states. Obviously not necessarily exclusive, either, but Bioware are a long, long time without a win. It is hard to see - at the moment - how this sets them up for one.
The wait continues. Guess I should play some more Baldurs Gate 3. I hear it's doing OK.
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Post by mattjamho on Aug 24, 2023 8:41:04 GMT
Very sad news indeed, at the very least I hope those who were effected got good severance/redundancy pay.
Bioware haven't had the money rolling in the same way they did 5+ years ago, the ME Legendary edition could only sustain them for so long. Perhaps we might actually see DA4 release next year, if only for the push to bring money to the studio? It's been in development for years and must have raked up quite the budget in that time, it needs to release at some point to keep the studio afloat. On the flip side, DA4 is not coming out anytime next year, and this redundancy was the means to afford continuing development over that time?
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Post by wright1978 on Aug 24, 2023 9:09:53 GMT
Does feel like Bioware's death isn't going to be swift end but more death by a thousand cuts. You've got to hope that Dreadwolf is far enough in that these losses won't damage it to much. It's future games including the supposed next Mass Effect that feel very shaky at this moment.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Aug 24, 2023 9:12:27 GMT
What the Fuck also Lukas Kristjanson who has been at Bioware since 1996?!? What is happening?!? And there are rumors that Sheryl Chee has been fired.
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